I beg your pardon

I think it's mostly a symptom of when something gets sent to the close vote queue, it gets closed

that's just the default action

maybe some of the commenters are grumpy...

eh, that catching fire thing is really too broad imo.

then again I hate most HNQs

pretty sure what I want out of SE is not what most people want

It's different

And sort of fun

That question

@orthocresol Other sites must accommodate variations in preferences somehow, once they get big enough.

Maybe our tag system is bad somehow, high-level...if things were tagged differently, it's be easier to ignore the...less-refined questions?

@pentavalentcarbon Yeah, either it turns right up in Google, or it takes spelunking into the journal literature to find.

@Rick Was that from any past year paper that you asked?

that meerwein guy is popular; he wsa also in meerweni pondroff valery reduction

there was a related "Meisenheimer complex" (negative sigma complex)

is there any mechanism for meerwein acylation?

The last time we had someone “fun” on the site they went a little too far

Mostly pretty harmless but it gets old

@Abcd Though they're talking about eclipsed conformers in the second paragraph ("Since the eclipsed conformer of ethane has..."), yet figure "A" has them all drawn in staggered conformation! :(

from here, research.cm.utexas.edu/nbauld/teach/ethane.html, we see that most likely figure A is drawn wrong; it should've been eclipsed

what do you think?

same problem appears with figures B, C, D

was that your doubt?

@Tanuj About to finish Combinatorics and Inverse Trigonometry.

@GaurangTandon Sorry for the delay, I slept at around 4.

@GaurangTandon Not understanding anything in these pages.

I need some assistance accepting the pending edit, then voting for reopening... thanks!

@uhoh move this to spring cleaning room ;)

@Abcd :-O

@Abcd closed as unclear what you're asking ;)

Does positive charge also reside in orbitals? For example does the positive charge of a carbocation reside in the vacant p orbital?

@GaurangTandon Just a minute, let me ask clearly.

@Zhe I'd like to point out, that I am not a professor (not even close), I only currently work in academics. (cc @M.A.R.)

Is anyone here?

@Abcd i think positive charge doesn't "reside" anywhere physically. It's simply the absence of electrons.

@Sweeper too many people are here; feel free to go on and speak

@GaurangTandon Why do we say that in carbocations there's conjugation between positive charge and electrons of C-H $\sigma$ bond?

@Abcd the positive charge that we draw in lewis structure is just a way to depict the actual empty p-orbital

If there is corona discharge in air,what is the average time between positive ion recombinating with electron? I read that its 30 seconds,I also read its in picosecond range...

@Sweeper i don't know about that theory, someone else knowing that theory might answer, you'll have to wait for that I guess

@GaurangTandon in $1,2$ Difluorethane, gauche form is more stable than anti.

@Abcd did I make an imputation to the contrary?

I have another question,when reading about UV light absorbtion in in gases,there is this unit called "absorbtion cross section cm2" I tried googling it but found no explanation what it means

merchant of venice.

@Abcd i memorized it in class 8th; 5 years back; you can guess the level of insane memorization I did that time

@hBy2Py Don't worry about it, I stand by my decision, and real life always comes first. You make the time, when you make the time. Unless - of course - you don't want to be a RO, then we can reverse that. But I don't recommend that.

@Abcd get back to the point what's your question?

@GaurangTandon I don't see why.

Why is gauche form more stable?

@GaurangTandon MS Chauhan writes that it is because of hyperconjugation.

Now, hyperconjugation is even possible in anti form.

H-bonds?

woah no check wiki for "gauche effect"

they say it's hyperconjugation

@GaurangTandon The author says its because of hyperconjugation interaction.

@Abcd yeah he must be right about it I didn't about this before

i'll have to think and tell

do you have more doubts in those pages?

@GaurangTandon Also, in anti conformation gauche effect is not possible because the distance between F and Hs is increased?

@GaurangTandon I am reading through them and asking one by one.

@Abcd i hadn't read it till now, book was collecting dust, so I don't think i can answer immediately

still you send I'll make sure to study it deeply soon

once boards are over

Idk this at all

@Abcd If it's fluorine and hydrogen then because of hydrogen bonding

@GaurangTandon My other question was that in propene why is eclipsed conformer more stable than bisected?

@AvatarShiny Why is hydrogen bonding impossible in anti conformer?

Just because the distance between F and H is increased?

@Abcd Too far

Yup

@Abcd you keep sending, i'm just gonna save all your msgs permalinks' in my todo list for later review

i never came across all this till now :(

This is pretty standard tho

@AvatarShiny Do you know the answer to my 2nd ques

@GaurangTandon @AvatarShiny I think MS Chauhan has copy pasted from here

@Abcd that seems very plausible; but i'd be equally inclined to say that that website copied it from the original Solomon Fryhle

I can't find it in the original solomon frhyle

@Abcd you have both? woah, great dude; then you must be correct in your guess

@GaurangTandon I have the pdf of the original...

accha that's nice

@GaurangTandon I don't understand how $\sigma-\pi$ conjugation happens

@Abcd you mean during hyperconjugation?

@GaurangTandon yes...

what in it is confusing you?

I understood that hyperconjuagtion can happen between vacant p orbital in carbocations and the C-H bond,

because the orbital is empty

But in propene there is no vacant orbital

so how would hyperconjugation happen @GaurangTandon?

ok that

well if you lose H+ from the 3rd atom in propene

the resulting carbanion is reso stabilized

see this page has what I'm talking about adichemistry.com/organic/basics/hyperconjugation/…

@GaurangTandon got it, thanks.

great :D

@GaurangTandon one more question: there is polarisation happening during HC, how is that leading to stability?

not the polarization part

read this chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/20362/…

@GaurangTandon You know MO theory?

@Abcd I don't. But, I read this " Instead of the empty p orbital, you have to consider the empty pi* orbitals of the C=C double bond" and went away

okay, cool.

@Abcd what's the answer for your propene question

@AvatarShiny no idea

Looks like I'll have to read your site

Not my cup of tea

How to determine whether a group is electron withdrawing or electron releasing?

Do your GOC properly

No need to memorize

@AvatarShiny what do you mean?

@Abcd question too broad as of now

@AvatarShiny Oho! But I need to memorise that list of decreasing order of +I and -I, right?

@GaurangTandon @Abcd @Rick @ApoorvPotnis how do you all manage inorganic

@Abcd I never memorized

But it should come handy

@AvatarShiny By reading Indian JD lee... most of the times while travelling

and noting all reactions.

I hate inorganic pointless rote memorization

Nope, there are so many cool reasons

for everything.

Oxygen is more electronegative than sulphur

yet the order of -I effect that I saw in March's Adv. Organic Chemistry is :SH> OH

Why is it so?

@AvatarShiny just mug up ncert

nothing really special in inorganic

only memorization

@Abcd why do you have so many bookssssss?S??S?S?S

might be because of S empty d orbitals

not sure though

ask on main site

it's a decent question I think

@GaurangTandon Chemistry.SE hates d orbitals of S.

@Abcd really really agree with that. almost every undergraduate and above student hates them

@GaurangTandon For JEE

NCERT

@AvatarShiny yeah it's enough I think for mains at least

@GaurangTandon Not targeting mains tho

And you were the one calling NCERT crappy

@AvatarShiny I know, the guys who wrote NCERT also organize CBSE

that's why I said

for advance, JD lee's is OK; although, supplement it with Balaji

@Martin-マーチン but you're a PhD right? The academic torture would have sucked humor out of you perfectly

@GaurangTandon I don't think it's in JEE syllabus, neither is MPV reduction, I think. A lot of other fun stuff aren't there either like Strecker synthesis or Kiliani-Fischer synthesis

Like a vacuum cleaner

@M.A.R. I have a doctorate, yes.

@Rick yeah I think you're right

though the line b/w what is and what isn't in JEE is blur

@Martin-マーチン you have scarce to zero humor, yes.

@M.A.R. I'm German; what do you expect?

@GaurangTandon NCERT 😅

@Rick haha well at least in advance it's blur; NCERT helps in mains nicely

Mains ho gaya na ?

it's on 8th april

@M.A.R. are you reviewing edits right now

@gaurang z00t: chemistry.stackexchange.com/posts/7137/revisions :P

@gaurang b00m: chemistry.stackexchange.com/posts/7139/revisions O.o

I know, I always click that edit approved notification to see if they improved anything or not

I missed a lot of stuff ....

when I clicked that notification and checked out what you did I was like oh god so much...!

I knew that \begin{align} thing, have done it more than once before, but it didn't come to my mind when making that edit

dunno why

moral of the day: read each line carefully when suggesting edits and think how each line can be made more beautiful; think over your tools and know how and when to apply them

@GaurangTandon Which would be more basic, para nitro anniline or meta nitro anniline?

@Abcd homework like questions must demonstrate effort to understand the underlying concepts ;)

@Abcd in meta nitro aniline the lone pair of aniline does NOT delocalise to the nitro group

draw the reso structure yourself and check

Oh, let me see.

@GaurangTandon nah it's fine, you're still improving. Even if I had done nothing, it would have been better. So all is good. But you asked to be notified... therefore ping ping ping

@Martin-マーチン actually no need to ping now I've made it a habit to just click on that notification and see what things got improved

:)

:D

@Martin-マーチン yah but you made it look magical :D

@GaurangTandon not getting :/

@Abcd send a photo dude of your reso structures

Ok

@Abcd NO2 is EWG

Ikt

@GaurangTandon I am doing this on auto pilot... but yeah, i don't see the codez no more

@Gaurang Use spaces between units in \pu to separate the otherwise it is set as one unit. Not much of an issue, but \pu{3 g mol-1} looks nicer than \pu{3 gmol-1}

@Martin-マーチン yeah that's reasonable; but \pu{3g mol^-1} is ok, right?

@Abcd What does Ikt mean?

@GaurangTandon i know that

yeah, but i think the space is recommended

alright

A classic question - biology.stackexchange.com/q/70703/8257

spaces also increase readability of teh codez... which is nice for the reviewers, because the MathJax not always renders in the diff view

biology.SE fellows are so lucky to be able to answer that

and i review da coz

@Martin-マーチン you already owe your CodeReview rep; go redeem it! ;)

@Martin-マーチン yep never thought of that, will

@GaurangTandon you basically can't know this until you have enough rep to do the reviews, but then it's 2little2l8

yeah that's right

ow cool... i did not know that...

oh and sulphuric acid is the correct spelling too :(

@Martin-マーチン :(

@GaurangTandon iupac says sulfuric

regarding - chemistry.stackexchange.com/posts/16280/revisions

i know but i spent my whole in the realm of sulphuric :(

haha... in BE it is still correct...

there was a messup in the post though and i started with sulfuric, I didn't want to change it back when i realised there are like athousand instances of it...

hmmmm

@GaurangTandon^

checking

@GaurangTandon Seen, carbon is pentavalent in my 2nd mesomeric structure

So its rejected

But how did you recognise this so fast @GaurangTandon?

your first structure is also wrong

@AvatarShiny yessir. Right on it sir

that conjugation you point out takes place in no way arrrgggghhhh!!!!

ask your coaching for full refund on goc chapter

@M.A.R. Nothing bade sahib false alarm

@Abcd have you been taught resonance in detail yet?

@GaurangTandon whats wrong with it?

@GaurangTandon we were just taught that in a hurry.

@Abcd then take a deep breath and read through everything completely again

there's no way you draw that reso structure even in sleep

@GaurangTandon from where :/

Oh no

@Abcd the left pi bond you shifted will go inside the ring not outside it

@abcd you should probably practice drawing resonance structures

@Abcd i don't know; sorry but it's so basic I dunno which book to recommend

@Mart you really want that Steward don't you?

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

I am genuinely annoyed by the red dot they recently gave us... ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

@M.A.R. Why do you always remove that placeholder text? like in this chemistry.stackexchange.com/posts/91058/revisions

@GaurangTandon it makes me twitch

@M.A.R. well that's intriguing

@Martin-マーチン is only annoying when that queue isn't urgent

yeah why do you ( ? _ ? )

why?

Could have been really good

WHY?

y?

Y???!1

Well, the images are blocked here, so I keep seeing an annoying enter image description here

Plus, no alt text is better than stupid alt text for Google.

If I saw the images, I'd have added something more meaningful.

@M.A.R. i disagree

@M.A.R. it's blocked because of imgur porn right?

@Martin-マーチン I got that idea from effing programmers man

@Martin-マーチン yeah, chemicals having sex

who? what?

@M.A.R. come on, use a vpn?

opera has one built-in

@GaurangTandon it makes things slower on a slow internet and it's annoying to switch it on and off

@Martin-マーチン you can't argue with programmers

Basically (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

@M.A.R. i've a slow internet and it works pretty fast for me

@M.A.R. ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

@GaurangTandon Were my structure for para nitro anniline correct?

@GaurangTandon VPNs aren't necessarily speed boosts dude

Just cause it works for you doesn't mean the same thing would work for me

@Abcd they were beautiful :D

@M.A.R. no but they shouldn't do speed hindrance either

@M.A.R. that sums it up nicely

@gaur @Abcd Weinhold's how-to book about natural bond orbitals really helped my intuitive understanding about hyperconjugation, if there's a copy available near you somewhere.

@Martin-マーチン The red dot, it is capricious.

@Martin-マーチン that one in the top right? It's there for me on Math.SE too; really annoying

@hBy2Py thanks :) it's too late for me though, my final exams are on me, Abcd can use the help; the book is not in my locality but Amazon.in helps ;)

before the design change I was able to ignore that constant orange bubble, but that red dot is just so much more effective grabbing my attention

@hBy2Py thanks

@GaurangTandon You'll leave contact with chemistry after JEE?

@Abcd i meant i bookmarked the book in case it comes handy later

@hBy2Py i should get my hands on that...

@Abcd at least not for my first UG year

@Martin-マーチン use stylebot; chrome extension; i was able to remove the red dot with that; one click and it's gone :D

i wouldn't be a very good mod, if I were to ignore that annoying dot...

on bio i heard they had or have a pile up of close reviews...

@Martin-マーチン well you can still click on it and the queue will open anyway

@Martin-マーチン ignoring annoying things is every human's fundamental right

sure thing ;)

I'll leave all the edits for the others beginning next monday... or so

You still want the Steward

I'll take it, if I get there... but i'm in no rush

@Martin-マーチン It's a great primer on how to actually get results with GENNBO, and the beginnings of successful interpretation of the results.

The earlier book gets into intensely fine-grained detail on the deeper aspects. It's decently readable, slowly.

Yeah I know that, especially since there is so much hidden in the small prints...

i'm also interested in the newer developments, but we'll see when i get a chance to review that...

I just hope I can retain my access to the program

Old? Has it been some new papers, or does he actually have a new book out?

well, there is nbo6, so it is somewhat dated, but not by much

I've been itching to buy a copy of version 6, but I just haven't been able to justify it to myself yet. There's some bonding analysis stuff that I'd like to play around with, but I'm not sure it would go anywhere and thus be worth the money to get it.

what version do you have?

Oh, you mean there's a new version of the software? Now that you mention it, I think I might have seen that.

Ha. Version none. I've tried downloading that old 1990s version that is in the CCL archive, but I have not spent the hours and hours it would take to get it actually compiled.

the book refers 5.9, so there are more developments

@hBy2Py that one is heavily outdated and probably produces more wrong than correct results

even the implemented stuff in Gaussian NBO 3.1 is utter garbage

Oh, sure, but at least I could play around with it from a qualitative perspective. Get used to assembling inputs at least to a certain extent, and then tell if the cost of buying it is actually worth it, in terms of what the results look like on systems I'm interested in.

I really do not understand why they didn't scratch that from gaussian 16, it's terrible, because people still use it

Oh, that bad. Unfortunate.

Oh. So there's a really old version embedded, even though Gaussian can interface with the newer versions?

If you want to do NBO, buy it.

@hBy2Py yes, unfortunately, and there are some serious issues with it

@Martin-マーチン It's just such a large chunk of my hobby budget.

well, there is no alternative...

Compared to the cost of Python and Orca, especially.

i understand you, but that's just the thing with proprietory software

Thus my dilemma. :-)

Oh, I'm not complaining that I have to pay for it. It's just balanced right at my 'is it worth it or not' threshold.

With my various programming projects, it seems like I have a much better chance of making something that other people will find useful. With the quantum chemistry calculations, they're interesting and fun, but the likelihood of actually turning into something publishable seems pretty low, since I'm not working in a guided, structure environment. So, my willingness to spend money to support them is fairly low at the moment.

Well, I wouldn't buy it just to play around. If you rely on it for production, it is a small price to pay

Yep, absolutely. That's part of the dilemma. I don't know for sure that it will lead me someplace useful.

It is one of the most accepted partial charges scheme, rigorous and what not...

The main thing is, I suspect at the moment that charge shift bonding is a generalization of Weinhold's 3c2 bond. But, I don't know, and I can't really find out without buying it. Catch-22.

if you can achieve the same with Hirschfeld, Bader, Löwdin, go for it... For localistaion you can use Boys, which is implemented in GAMESS

Well, you know my opinion about the charge shift bond...

I mean these are all just mathematical tools, different labels, same thing...

Hehehe

but I still think charge shift is the least rigorous one out there...

Acidity order is: H3O+ > H3S+ > H3Se+. March states it without reason...

What's the reason behind it?

It should be pretty obvious to you

@Martin-マーチン Nod, I'm good w/population methods and loc. ORCA has Pipek-Mezey, too.

@Abcd EN?

yeah well, then, why bother with nbo....

@AvatarShiny but then H2O< H2S< H2Se (acidity)

anyway... g2g... see y'all soonish

ORCA has most everything I want, save anharmonic frequencies. Should grab one of the others that does.

cya @Martin-マーチン

Later!

@Abcd Conjugate Acid-Base

That makes no sense

@AvatarShiny what

\_(ツ)_/¯

@AvatarShiny you still haven't gotten that right

why did someone star my blunder? (image by gaurang)

Room Owner, please unstar that. it's nether funny nor interesting.

@M.A.R. I blame my teacher

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Note to self

SE doesn't allow spamming

@Abcd K

@AvatarShiny Does anywhere do?

@M.A.R. thanks.

Anyway, H2O <H2S<H2Se

so: OH-< SH- < SeH-

but removal of H+ from H3O+ will give H2O (conjugate base)

@M.A.R. Dunz

i don't get it

unable to rationalise

Exactly that's why i said it makes no sense

@AvatarShiny ^^^

That was for you I'mma stupid

Why don't you ask a question on main

let me think for a while

okay so basicity order is:

H2O>H2S>H2Se

thus, H3O+> H3S+> H3Se+ (conjugate acids)

Have I got it right @M.A.R. ?

really confused.

@Martin-マーチン I am still thinking about your comment though; when we assign the name, say "but-1-ene", aren't we assigning a locant 1 to the pi bond and not the atom?

@Abcd i think the conjugate acid should be in opposite order

@GaurangTandon Yup, even I think that

but March... gives the order I mentioned

@Abcd quora corroborates it quora.com/Which-is-more-acidic-H3O+-or-H3S+

but the reasons are unsatisfying'

@Abcd Do you have a pdf of that book?