The Periodic Table

getafix

02:38

Hello

Ridho

08:34

So many newcomers come to Chemistry.SE only for asking question to prepare for exam ...

This one is irritating. chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/32539/…

I don't know why other SE like Math.SE has many nice questions compared to there ...

I know they're in exam. Asian people will face exam because this month is the end of semester in high school (include me)

Why don't they ask their questions in Yahoo! Answers or they hire private teachers or other way -_-

user223679

10:49

@Ridho What does that mean?

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Your blog inspired atleast one guy.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@user223679 Heh, thanks :)

Ridho

@user223679 I don't know why SE is targeted mostly for asking homework questions.

False advertisement maybe

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@Ridho Apparently, at least some of the audience encourage it, which in turn encourages them to post more

Ridho

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Most newcomers only ask 1 ~ 10 questions, then disappear from SE. That's making SE is a disposable site lol.

user223679

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Btw, its not me. I am still trying to pickup speed....rather I was talking about this guy:

in We love math, physics, chemistry and random talk., 19 hours ago, by ADG

the wafflecrzy guy inspired me

@Ridho No. If those 1~10 questions are good then it doesn't matter.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

10:55

@user223679 Oh, nice :)

@Ridho Well, you should have a look at Physics.SE. Even though we offensively close HW questions, we still get them at a steady rate. On the other hand, math has somewhat less stricter HW policy (compared to us) - so, the users who visit Math.SE often get to think that all the other sites are similar (since everything is Stack Exchange)

Ridho

@user223679 I don't know why those bad questions are still only closed, not deleted ...

user223679

@Ridho Why do you want them deleted?

Ridho

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Maybe because Math.SE is fulfilled with LaTeX formats, so newcomers will think again to ask HW question there

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@Ridho That's a good thing. Closing them might be an example for showing new users the effect of posting a HW question on the site again.

user223679

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut IMO, physics is more strict than chem which is more strict than math.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

11:00

Yep

user223679

In physics, one cant ask whether his/her approach is correct. Chem accepts this kind of questions and in Math... one doesnt need to show the approach, just post the question, you shall get the answer in minutes.

Ridho

@user223679 That's why there's Physics Overflow (not in SE network) and MathOverflow. The questions are not asking, but like researching.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@user223679 Not quite. Even after spending 2 years in Physics.SE, I've never understood our HW policy completely yet

user223679

@Ridho I have no idea what your last message means. How did PO and MO come in when we are talking about HW questions?

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@Ridho Uh, PO is not actually SE's. It was formed by the users who didn't like the environment here

user223679

11:09

It was something like a rebirth of TheoreticalPhysics.SE I guess.

Ridho

@user223679 Because Physics and Math SE have purity from HW questions, PO and MO are there. It's just my thought

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

Again, they have much focused concentration in the fields

Ridho

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Maybe because idea of PhysicsOverflow.SE revoked in Area 51 SE lol

user223679

When I said "one cant ask whether his/her approach is correct", I meant approach to the HW question they are solving. Hope that clears it. @Ridho

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@Ridho A few months ago, there was a war - you can think of these as its consequences

user223679

11:13

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Link to the war please :p

Ridho

@user223679 But should Chemistry.SE has rule like Physics.SE? I know Chemistry.SE is just out from beta.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@user223679 I think it's been totally closed & sealed from the outer world, though I'm not sure. You can still find some relevant meta.SE posts

-37

Q: Physics is rotting into a bad situation, a request for community manager intervention

Physics Stack Exchange is experiencing the throes of very bad days. Lots of main and key users (compared to the total number of them) have left or are leaving. Examples of the community destruction include, with the leave: Have we lost the necessary critical mass of professional physicists? I...

^^^ A relevant one (though that was a teensy-beensy bit of the war) :P

Ridho

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut The shog9's answer is very painful, tbh

So experts and professors are leaving Physics.SE because of full HW questions?

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

11:41

@Ridho Not exactly. The problem was much more complicated than that

To be precise, disagreements & arguments turning into harassment -- that gave birth to all the other problems

M.A.Ramezani

13:19

@getafix Oh hullo! Welcome to the chatroom!

Sorry that I couldn't respond soon enough.

I was dreaming when you posted that. :}

Freddy

13:58

2

Q: Why does this happen?

I was reading N.C.E.R.T. class XI part 2 book and chapter Hydrogen,where i came across this Statement. Loss of the electron from hydrogen atom results in nucleus (H+) of ~1.510–3 pm size. This is extremely small as compared to normal atomic and ionic sizes of 50 to 200pm. As a consequ...

hydrogen

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo @Fred!

Freddy

Hola

M.A.Ramezani

It happens cuz it happens.

Positive charge concentration so high!

Freddy

This is one of the reason why Hydrogen have special place

M.A.Ramezani

Hydrogen is special.

It's part of the water family!

Freddy

14:03

@M.A.Ramezani does not exist without Hydrogen! :-)

M.A.Ramezani

Yes. That's the second importance.

I'm highly thankful to Carbon.

He's a cool guy.

Papul

16:00

Hi everyone.

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo!

I think I'm the only one here right now, but anyways

Welcome to the chatroom!

Papul

Yeah got the chat privilege a few days ago

M.A.Ramezani

Yay!

Papul

I am 2nd year undergraduate student

from India

M.A.Ramezani

Oooh.

That means 10th?

Papul

16:07

10?

I am B.Sc student

M.A.Ramezani

Well I dunno what that is, but it sounds yummy!

Papul

Bachelor of Science

M.A.Ramezani

Oh!

Haha, well, I'm studying 10th, or studied.

Papul

hmm... basic chemistry then

M.A.Ramezani

Yup.

But we do get some regs that are real cool guys...PhDs and stuff.

Papul

16:10

nice!

M.A.Ramezani

@Martin, @LordStryker, @Nicolau, @Ron etc.

Papul

do you want to study chemistry after completing school?

M.A.Ramezani

Pretty much everyone but me.

@Papul I wanna be a pharmacist, or a doctor, so yeah, kinda.

I love chemistry. That's why you find me here.

@Papul whaddya study? Organochem?

Papul

No specialization as of yet

I study all the three branches

M.A.Ramezani

Oh, so your main thingy isn't chem?

What's your major?

Papul

16:14

It is. My major is chemistry. But no specialization as of yes

yet

M.A.Ramezani

You can edit chat messages here!

Hullo to you too @Kartik!

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani Hi

M.A.Ramezani

Oh my, a guy from TeX.SE!

@Martin would be proud.

@Lord too.

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani I was from TeX 1 year Earlier

@M.A.Ramezani Now I think I am from Chem

M.A.Ramezani

Hah!

Kartik

16:19

@M.A.Ramezani Can you tell any good online book for inorganic chemistry?

M.A.Ramezani

Online?

Ah damn! Let me think...

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani I mean Ebook

M.A.Ramezani

I know...The problem is I dunno...Let me think...

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani Ok if you dont know then no problem

M.A.Ramezani

That's not OK for me...I'm searching chem.SE.

Papul

16:24

what part of Inorganic chem do you want to study?

There isn't one book for all in Chemistry generally

You have to consult a lot of books

Kartik

@Papul Okk so then tell all the books

@Papul I will study all of them

Papul

Even I don't know all of the books

:P

Kartik

@Papul Any one?

Papul

@M.A.Ramezani how do you edit chats?

ok

Kartik

@Papul Ctrl-Up arrow

@Papul Any part

@Papul From the beginning

M.A.Ramezani

16:27

@Papul Hah!

@Papul you can also hover over a message and see star, flag and reply buttons.

Papul

My proffs recommend reading the first few chapters of Huheey, J.D Lee and Shriver Atkins

to clear concepts about the very basic stuff about bonding and structures

Kartik

@Papul Are they available online?

Papul

many students lack concept of the following stuff

M.A.Ramezani

Atkin's physical chemistry...Yeah that's nice.

Papul

@Kartik that you have to check for yourself

M.A.Ramezani

16:29

But I don't think it's a free ebook.

Kartik

Ok, I'll check

M.A.Ramezani

@Katrik what level?

For what level do you need the books?

Papul

@M.A.Ramezani no so nice actually. I find it lacking quite a few things. Always end up referring other books.

M.A.Ramezani

@Papul What? You mean Atkins'?

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani I know some of the basics, like bonding, Quantum theory, orbitals, etc But not things like oxidation / reduction / etc

Papul

16:32

yeah Atkins Physical Chemistry

M.A.Ramezani

Why don't you cover the more advanced textbooks from your school?

Oh look!

Sherlock Holmes has answered this question.

1

A: Introduction to Chemistry Textbook - Theory based

Silberberg or Zumdahl Chemistry are great introductory reference books in my opinion. They cover the topics in just the right amount of depth and explain concepts extremely well, I highly recommend it. Inorganic Chemistry and Physical Chemistry by Peter Atkins also seem to be decent (though ve...

Papul

@Kartik even I thought I knew the basics and then I started reading these books and realized I didn't know so much

M.A.Ramezani

I wonder who was the murderer this time.

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani Actually I am looking for online books because I have already read the books of my school

M.A.Ramezani

@Kartik Have you read the books of older students in your school?

Kartik

16:34

@Papul I know, I thought I knew the basics till last year but now I know the truth

Papul

@Kartik have you read the book I told you about?

Kartik

No, I'm still finding it

@M.A.Ramezani No, I have the book only of my class

Papul

I mean at school

M.A.Ramezani

@Kartik Then I recommend doing it.

Kartik

@Papul No we dont have that book at school

Papul

16:35

there is a great website for downloading pdfs of paid books

but I am not going to post it here because it is pirating

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani Actually In our school we have started 11th class this year and we are currently the seniormost class

@M.A.Ramezani So there are no older students

But I'm still finding the books

M.A.Ramezani

piratesofthecaribbean.com?

Papul

And I do not know the rules regarding pirating here

M.A.Ramezani

@Papul Good call.

@Papul Everything here is under copyright.

OK then @Kartik you know what I would do?

I won't look for one book.

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani So what would you do?

M.A.Ramezani

16:38

I'd list the topics I wanna understand more about.

Then search for tutorials on the net.

With a Google search like what's hyperconjugation?

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani What would you do if you dont know the name of the topics??

M.A.Ramezani

@Kartik There's so much to learn about the topics whose name you know, that's not worrying for now.

Even if I was worried, then I'd wander chem.SE.

You can find plenty of those topics simply by looking at the tags.

Or taking a look at the newest 50 questions.

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani Ok, I think that looking at the tags is a good Idea. Thank you.

But another question

M.A.Ramezani

Am ready!

Kartik

Do you have to learn the names of all polyatomic ions?

M.A.Ramezani

16:43

I might also ask TeX Qs from you @Kartik. I'm a beginner at TeX.

@Kartik Nah.

Of course not.

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani Even I am a begginer at TeX. But still ask

M.A.Ramezani

The standard procedure is to be doing so much chemistry, you'll memorize them by heart.

But some schools/exams/whatevers require you to memorize a specific number of them.

Then, you should ask them what names they're gonna ask from you.

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani What about the uncommon ones?

M.A.Ramezani

@Kartik What's IUPAC's red book for?

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani What is that?

@M.A.Ramezani Oh I got it

M.A.Ramezani

16:46

Or, you can just search them at Google, or ask them at chem.SE.

Kartik

Ok, thank you very much.

M.A.Ramezani

As I said, there's nothing important to be missed, unless your school asks you to memorize them.

@Kartik Anytime!

Kartik

I found this question: chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/24708/…

That is exactly what I was looking for

@M.A.Ramezani Any open source online tutorial?

M.A.Ramezani

@Kartik Oh hehe, I've answered that one!

@Kartik Are you aware of the existence of beautiful phenomenons like Wikipedia, chemwiki.ucdavis.edu, hyperphysics and so on?

Kartik

@M.A.Ramezani I was aware of wikipedia but not the others

M.A.Ramezani

16:53

@Kartik While you use Google to search, you'll run into them.

Tip: Notice the URL of the site you visit.

If you again visited that site some other time, that means there's some useful content there for you.

I'll let you discover them yourself.

That way they'll be tastier.

Papul

@M.A.Ramezani why do you use food analogies?

M.A.Ramezani

@Papul That makes it tastier.

Papul

really a bad thing to do while doing chemistry :P

M.A.Ramezani

Meh. Nothing happens to a chair cyclohexane.

Papul

lol

ADG

17:53

lol

M.A.Ramezani

lol

M.A.Ramezani

19:14

Oh yay! Tschoppi is back!

I think you guys have good memories with him.

Ethan Hunt

22:58

Hey guys, I just needed some help with some bonding stuff. If possible please try to answer my question. Thanks!

ron

23:32

@M.A.Ramezani Knowing how much you enjoy cyclohexane, I was wondering if you ever gazed at the beauty of the 4 chair cyclohexanes locked in the adamantane structure?

Nicolau Saker Neto

He must really like diamonds then

ron

That made me smile!

Nicolau Saker Neto

Hehe

ron

I read your comment in the multiple sigma bond question. Do you not think bent bonds and the ethylene 2-membered ring make sense?

Nicolau Saker Neto

I liked your answer, very well written

It was quite interesting, I hadn't seen ethylene that way before

I think it makes as much sense as any other bonding scheme

ron

23:37

Thanks, I'm kind of a fan of bent bonds

Nicolau Saker Neto

I'm not sure if there really is much point in labelling bonds as sigma, pi, etc, in the first place

Haha

You should get into prismanes then

ron

Your right about labeling, but it's like we need some kind of nomenclature so we can discuss things

Nicolau Saker Neto

I read a chapter about prismanes in a computational chemistry book, some pretty crazy bonding going on

I understand, it's an approximation of reality which has much use

ron

It's amazing how easy they can be prepared photochemically

despite the strain

Nicolau Saker Neto

I don't recall very well, but I remember an extremely strained molecule being synthesized by photochemical expulsion of C=O

And it happened "after many, many attempts"

I think it was tetrahedrane, if I'm not mistaken

Or one of its derivatives at any rate, the parent molecule being probably too unstable to synthesize

ron

23:43

Worked all day cleaning the garage. It's the last right of passage from spring to summer. We just opened a nice cabernet to celebrate.

Nicolau Saker Neto

Hehe, a job well done

ron

good to have it behind me

Nicolau Saker Neto

23:58

Oh, I forgot to mention, I had a lot of fun taking part of those cyclic ether/alkane boiling point questions

Turned out to be richer than I had expected

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