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Kaz
Kaz
1:23 AM
They finally figured out how to write an apology:
220
Q: An apology to our community, and next steps

David FullertonI’m David Fullerton, Stack Overflow’s CTO, responsible for the product, engineering, and community teams. I joined Stack Overflow in 2010 because I believed in the vision and mission of Stack Overflow. I wanted to be a part of building a community where programmers come together to help one anot...

discussion featured moderation code-of-conduct
See also:
88
Q: Dear Stack Exchange: a statement and a letter from your moderators

ArtOfCodeDear Stack Exchange, Inc., We know you know about this already, so we'll keep this brief. The past two weeks have been rough. Lots of moderators have lost confidence in you; for some, it was the final straw. For many of us, though, we like being here and we don't want it to get to that point. So...

discussion moderators
5
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
Seems pretty weak, but majority couldn't care less about the drama except how it affects TWP I would think
 
 
5 hours later…
Snow
Snow
6:24 AM
It's a start, and it's an admission of what they've done wrong.
 
Jane S
Jane S
6:41 AM
There needs to be more yet. This is an honest beginning, but it's only that so far.
3
 
Snow
Snow
Words do have to be matched with deeds. And we do want this to be the start of something and not just a promise of one.
It's good to see you Jane. I hope you've had a good rest.
 
Jane S
Jane S
Thanks, Snow. Not really, still spending too much time thinking about all of this. But until there is some real, publicly visible steps taken to address this, then my diamond stays off. That means they need to sit down have a proper dialogue with Monica, listen and agree on the path forward. Take the time to do it right, because it hasn't been yet.
 
Snow
Snow
Yeah, I totally get that. I'm sure you've read up on me dealing with these same conflicts. Over this weekend, I've slept better than I have in weeks. I've been involved/watching this whole thing right from the start and it's troubled me constantly.
 
Jane S
Jane S
I've currently fallen on the other side of that same decision, but it's very much a personal choice. We have to follow what we feel is right, and nobody can make anyone else's decision for them :)
 
Snow
Snow
7:00 AM
Absolutely. The main pull for me was TWP being left without any moderation - and this site is my main concern.
 
Jane S
Jane S
Please don't think for a second that it isn't mine, too :)
 
Snow
Snow
Of course not. But at least moderation is happening now, so that's a pressure taken off you on that score. It leaves you to reflect on what's really important without this added pressure.
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
Yep, we're all good now, we have 2 mods, don't need the rest back I reckon, better having some new blood just focused on the site, not part of some outside clique or whatever
 
Snow
Snow
I get you. Not that I'd ever think that Jane is in any way "cliquey".
 
Jane S
Jane S
Today was the first time I ever posted on meta.SE. Like ever.
Clearly, I'm not required or wanted, so I shall not waste anyone else's time further. Have a great day.
 
Pointy Haired Boss
Pointy Haired Boss
7:24 AM
0
Q: New tag (and wiki) for employment bonds (common in India)?

sleskeIt seems that in India, it is common for new employees to sign an employment bond (or simply bond) - meaning they agree to pay a certain sum of money if they leave their employment before a certain timescale (typically 1-3 years). Similar agreements exist in other countries, but usually only if ...

discussion tagging
 
Snow
Snow
7:39 AM
@JaneS never think that you’re not wanted or not valued here. You are hugely influential and hugely helpful to the folks seeking help here.
7
 
Monoandale
Monoandale
I would agree with Kilisi, but then I would get suspended, so...
 
 
1 hour later…
Kilisi
Kilisi
8:59 AM
I have no idea, couldn't really care less about anything outside this community. Every single individual here has value... as individuals. But we elect the mods, they should prioritise TWP or be replaced. If they want to be activists or whatever elsewhere that's fine, but don't do it with a TWP diamond. We don't deserve that. Just my 2 cents...
 
Kaz
Kaz
9:50 AM
@Kilisi In an ideal world, yes, moderators wouldn't have to care about what direction SE does or does not take. However, I think something like this is a very real concern: 
Among the most serious mistakes made was that a staff member spoke to the press about a member of the community who participates here under her own name. That same community member is now described in the press with language that can be taken to imply she is an extremist and a bigot.
This news article is now the top search report for her name, which may cause her serious issues in real life, with her friends, her family, and her career. In doing this, Stack Exchange has rewarded years of service by putting one of its volunteers in danger – and there’s now a very real feeling that we may no longer be safe on this platform.
 
Arthur Havlicek
Arthur Havlicek
10:05 AM
can someone point me relevant points to this mod debacle ? I missed the event
 
Kaz
Kaz
@ArthurHavlicek There's quite a lot to catch up on.
 
Snow
Snow
@ArthurHavlicek Pretty much this
 
Arthur Havlicek
Arthur Havlicek
thanks a lot
 
Kaz
Kaz
This has most of the links you'll need to various other posts:
52
Q: Summing up the main issues (The Story So Far)

aparente001Could we have a neutral summing up of the issues (without any editorializing)? I will attempt to do so in an answer, big picture style. Or you could think of this as "The Story So Far" for those who came in in the middle, or who are confused about what the heck just happened to Stack Exchange. ...

discussion moderators code-of-conduct
And this is the most extensive accounting of events I've seen from Monica so far:
17
A: Summing up the main issues (The Story So Far)

GryphonMonica herself has recently put up her own timeline of events as a blog post, which can be found here. In the interest of avoiding issues with dead links and avoiding link-only answers, the full text of the blog post is as follows (now with links included and an update): This is a timeline,...

 
Arthur Havlicek
Arthur Havlicek
hmm hmm
bad and ugly
 
 
1 hour later…
Richard U
Richard U
11:31 AM
@kaz Long story short, no matter how much you attempt to appease the crybullies, it is never enough.
I think I will merely address people as "Foolish Mortals"
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
11:42 AM
Greetings...
I would just like to say thanks to Asheville for putting on a nice little OktoberFest.
 
Richard U
Richard U
David Bowie was prophetic with his song "Cygnet Committee"
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
I like cats
 
Snow
Snow
I'm more of a dog person.
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
@Snow I have 2 pups and one cat
 
Richard U
Richard U
12:43 PM
@MisterPositive I have a Maine Coon. Very affectionate, very intelligent, and very playful breed. Also doubles as an alarm clock
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
@RichardU Wow. To say that is a big cat is an understatement.
 
Richard U
Richard U
@MisterPositive I'm looking for a nice saddle for her. I think HE-MAN had one in that 80's cartoon
 
Magisch
Magisch
@RichardU I love maine coon cats
they are like cat dogs
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Magisch yep. mine jumps into bed with me, meets me at the door when I get home, nudges me awake if I oversleep, and pitches a fit if I'm up past my bedtime.
 
Snow
Snow
 
Magisch
Magisch
12:54 PM
@RichardU When I move to an apartment that allows it, I shall get one
or two
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Magisch it had better be a big apartment.
@MisterPositive, @Snow I'm probably going to go dark again in a bit. The more I read about the new rules, the less I like what I see. The be-nice rule, as well as the assume good intentions rule are officially out the door with them. Also, I know full well where my rigid thinking, which is endemic to my autism and I cannot control, will lead me to come into direct conflict with the new policies.
These new policies will actually cause and/or exacerbate the very problems they seek to ameliorate
 
Snow
Snow
I understand the concern, but that shouldn't really interfere with answering the vast majority of questions here. Having said that, it's been good to see you again, and good to see you're doing well.
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
1:10 PM
@RichardU You may be right, you may not be, only time will tell. I for one will have obviously decided to see how it goes.
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Snow Yeah, I had a brush with the Reaper back in August when my blood sugar shot past 800, scared me enough to get back into shape. I will be able to answer fewer of the questions than you might think. My dad used to call me "Sheldon" for a reason. I cannot force myself to present my ideas in any way that is dishonest. Since even avoiding some of the topics is a violation of CoC, I doubt I will be able to comply.
@MisterPositive what I find ironic is just how much is assumed by opposition to the CoC. If you oppose it for any reason, you're a bigot and a hater. For all of my run-ins with Monica, I cannot say that she's ever given any indication whatsoever of being a bigot. It was an unfair accusation. I've already had that thrown at me a few times, which is quite ironic.
3
 
Snow
Snow
@RichardU That sucks. Hope you're on a healthier path now.
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Snow Blood sugar is hovering in the 90's now, right in the sweet spot of normal. Sometimes you need the fear of God put in you.
 
Mister Positive
Mister Positive
@RichardU The body messes with us.....it puts on weight with relative ease....shedding it is way way way harder.
 
Snow
Snow
@RichardU It was an accusational assumption based on not knowing all of the facts and just making shit up.
2
 
Richard U
Richard U
1:15 PM
@MisterPositive the first 70 lbs were easy, it's the last 30 which are killing me
@Snow Indeed, which is why I say it goes from the "assume good intentions" rule, into a gotcha game.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@MisterPositive In the past, the scrupulous use of stored energy preserved our survival
200k years isn't enough for meaningful evolutionary change
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Magisch try more like 50 years.
I remember going hungry as a youth
 
Magisch
Magisch
No I mean. Humans in general have not had the opportunity to evolve out of the paradigm that our body is greedy when storing energy and cheap when releasing it from storage
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Magisch I know, but up until about 50 years ago, we still needed that.
 
Magisch
Magisch
at least a third of humanity still needs it right now
 
Richard U
Richard U
1:19 PM
@Magisch well, it's no longer an issue of production or distribution. We could feed the world several times over if not for political hurdles
I'm keeping my email in my profile, BTW, if anyone wants to reach out. I'll prob be here until the end of the year, or until things become too difficult for me to deal with.
 
 
1 hour later…
Arthur Havlicek
Arthur Havlicek
2:43 PM
Speaking about CoC/Monica thing, what makes me uncomfortable is the underlying "political" background. In the end as a moderator / high rep user you have very little leverage to protest. You don't hold the bucks, to SE the company you are nothing.
It's uncomfortable based on how valuable you are to the community, in comparison.
I believe we will see increasing tensions that ultimately stem from being a private model relying on public contributions.
 
 
1 hour later…
Richard U
Richard U
4:06 PM
@ArthurHavlicek That's a good point. In my case, at least, I've felt that way
 
Pointy Haired Boss
Pointy Haired Boss
4:34 PM
0
Q: Forward, to the future

Richard UNow that two of our mods are back, it's time to look forward. There's been a good deal of bad will built up, and the mods are not going to have an easy time of it. The new CoC will have some very controversial items in it, and the mods will have to make a choice at that point. Personally, I do...

discussion
 
 
4 hours later…
Kilisi
Kilisi
8:08 PM
@Kaz you don't get me, I'm all for anyone caring about anything they want, I do a bunch of stuff which is basically because I care. However, I use my own resources to do it, not sidetrack someone elses resources to make my points. But the outcome on the whole has been positive for TWP so I'm ok with how things turned out.
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
8:23 PM
@RichardU I feel you man, age is getting me as well, I'm 5kg overweight off my lifetime norm which has barely moved for decades. Can barely see my abs. Too scared to get a checkup, probably all sorts of serious issues I don't want to know about.
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kilisi yeah, better to find out and keep them geetting worse than to wake up one day when there's nothing that can be done for you
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
8:47 PM
@RichardU maybe in your locale, anything serious here you just die, hospital is a death trap. They don't even send paramedics with the ambulances, just a driver and helper to pick up the body
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kilisi yeah, sounds like life in the High Desert of CO. Had much the same success, with the added bonus of a misdiagnosis.
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
@RichardU always got to love a bonus (Y)
You try and eat healthy and stay fit, you do all the right things and keep a clear conscience and a clean heart, and then one day you look in the mirror and you're a fat old man.......
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kilisi yeah, it hit me suddenly. Feet kill me from the diabetes, coould barely make it up the stairs back in August. Got better on my own. But you, my friend are in far better shape than I
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
@RichardU maybe maybe not, since I avoid checkups and smoke like a chimney I could have all sorts of issues
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kilisi well, there is that. :D
 
Kilisi
Kilisi
8:53 PM
Diabetes runs in my family, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Kilisi it is not fun, I can confirm that
 

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