The Water Cooler

Crossed the river styx

12:33 AM

I'll wait. :D

Crossed the river styx

4:41 AM

motosubatsu

7:11 AM

morning all

Anonymous

My water cooler broke, how do I fix it?

motosubatsu

@IceInkberry Step 1: Hit it with a hammer

Anonymous

@motosubatsu You damaged it even more ಠ_ಠ

motosubatsu

7:32 AM

@IceInkberry that's what you get for letting a code monkey near a hardware issue. Invoice is in the post :)

motosubatsu

7:56 AM

morning @Cronax

Cronax

@motosubatsu morning :D

@IceInkberry Have you tried applying percussive maintenance?

Masked Man

8:28 AM

@IceInkberry Please specify your location. ;)

Nec Plus Ultra

8:50 AM

6

Q: "I never lie" - employee survey question

A recent recruitment employee profile survey question: "I never lie." - do you agree or not with this statement. (Note that the question/statement is absolute and has no context attached to it.) I answered honestly - "I Disagree" - as I am sure in the course of my life I have either told lies or...

interviewing

Hah, reminds me of that Door Guard riddle.

Either you say "True, I never lie" and it's indeed true. Or you're lying.

Masked Man

9:37 AM

Does agreeing with the statement imply that it is the truth?

I agree with the statement "I never lie" but this statement is not true.

Cronax

9:50 AM

@MaskedMan I don't see how it doesn't...how do you agree with something that you think is false?

(I am wary of tvtropes links since I have gone too far down the rabbithole practically every time I went there :D)

Masked Man

10:16 AM

@Cronax "Donald Trump is the worst President ever." Do you agree with it? Is it true? Those are two different things.

Cronax

@MaskedMan I don't see how that can be. I can't agree with the statement if I don't think it's true. Whether it's objectively true is besides the point

Masked Man

@Cronax That is the point though. Whether you think something is true is not necessarily the same as whether it is true.

Nofel

morning all

Masked Man

"The sun revolves around the earth" for example. A lot of people thought it was true about 500 years ago. We know that isn't true today, and it wasn't true back then.

@Nofel good morning Nofel

Cronax

@MaskedMan Fair enough, but outside of pedantry, the subject was 'does agreeing with the statement imply that it's the truth' which itself implies that you think it's the truth when you agree with it, otherwise it's a nonsensical statement

Masked Man

10:47 AM

@Cronax Exactly, just like the employee survey question. That is what I was trying to get at. :)

Nofel

I am bit confused on when to take a on a role or interview test

When to walk away from a role or test

motosubatsu

11:04 AM

@Nofel my criteria are 1. Does it pay enough? 2. Can I do the role? 3. Do I want to work there? And as soon as one of those fails at any point in the process without any room to "fix" before I start I walk away

I'm willing to compromise on #3 if I'm desperate - if I'm in a crap job it becomes "Will I dislike working there less than my current role?" and if I don't have one it becomes "Can I tolerate this place in order to pay the bills?"

DarkCygnus

Morning fellas

Today is Field Day at work :D, traveling to the coast

see you in ~8 hours, don't break anything while I am gone...

Masked Man

@DarkCygnus Good for you buddy. Enjoy your day.

Nofel

@motosubatsu I get tests for companies and 90% r ajax.

I started yesterday, did layout in 45 min coz thats my thing

but struggle with ajax now, making my way but too slow

it make me think. 1). Am i fit for this role, 2) if not what I am fit for? 3) I cannot see any ob that dont need a ajax guy when u say front end and that also a pro level.

motosubatsu

11:21 AM

@Nofel honestly? you're going to need a working knowledge of ajax for just about any front end role out there these days. the good news is that it's not something that takes ages to get that working knowledge in

@DarkCygnus no promises!

Nofel

yes I agree @motosubatsu

but companies need efficient workers not slow or leaners

e.g I had a call yesterday from a big business group

she told me we r fast paced, can you work in fast paced

even I pass her test

I need more efficiency to work on API's

motosubatsu

@Nofel true.. but I believe you can be the former

Nofel

I hope so

what are tips for interview on telephone

I got one with the bank

I wanna nail it

Cronax

@Nofel Mostly the same as for face-to-face interviews, try to make it so the other person is talking more than you, and when you answer make your answer to the point, don't try to cover everything at once

motosubatsu

@Nofel 1. get as quiet an environment as feasible 2. ensure as best you can that you won't be interrupted 3. get ready in place ~5 mins beforehand so you aren't rushing and flustered 4. remember to breathe, concentrate on keeping your breathing even and measured and this will help prevent you stumbling over your words

Cronax

11:27 AM

It's a good idea to be conscious of the fact that there is no non-verbal communication, so be mindful of your tone of voice

motosubatsu

the rest is basically the same as an in person

Cronax

@Nofel Oh, one more thing to add, try to speak about 1,5 times as slowly as you normally would. The 'pressure' will make you hurry the pace of your speech but it's better to speak more slowly, you will generally come across as more confident and relaxed even when you're not

Nofel

It is gonna be technical too

Masked Man

12:17 PM

Use a headset as well, so both your hands are free. That way you can take down notes or look up some stuff if you need to.

Constantly holding a phone in the hand gets tiring after a while, and sometimes that can cause some irritation.

Nofel

good one @MaskedMan

Cronax

(and if you're like me, you speak best when your hands are free for gesticulating :D)

Nofel

what's gesticulating

Cronax

it's that thing where you move your hands when you're talking

motosubatsu

@Cronax I do that too.. and I pace as well

Nofel

12:24 PM

I do that on phone not in real life

I am too submissive type IRL

and i hate it

even other person is wrong they say it so bodly and I cannot.

even If I am right

Cronax

@Nofel Sounds like you need to work on your sense of self-worth

Nofel

@Cronax I need to work a lot of myself

I think part of it was my education, in 6 grade my principal wanted my parents to take me away to other school coz I wasn't cambridge type, I was admitted to a government school and there I struggled too and repeated classes and again failed. I was taken to another school where they had issue with my fee so ended with no high school degree in hand, then I joined a diploma which ended uncompleted coz I was also hired in same uni as a teacher to teach computer bt the manager payed me less

which ended me ending up not going and as a revenge he screwed my degree and by time I knew it the uni was bankrupt and gone.

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel when I was younger, I was accommodating to the point of obsequiousness.

Wow, @Nofel your history sounds much like mine.

Nofel

I think in my life I completed very less thing thus my focus is divided.

@Crossedtheriverstyx as I know, we are much a like and I respect u for what you passed onto the knowledge you hold.

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel it's never too late to alter your course. If I could come back from being homeless, you can do a course correction.

Cronax

12:38 PM

@Nofel I never finished any higher education than middle school, today I am a fairly respected person in my field

Nofel

@Crossedtheriverstyx my problem is focus. I know when I am in zone I am unstopable.

I tried promode technoque for 20 min

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel that's my problem too.

Nofel

and I see my hand and mind aching to get on phone or switch tab to see

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax I knew there was a reason I liked you :D

Nofel

dropouts r made up of gold

Cronax

12:40 PM

@Crossedtheriverstyx At the time I was mostly just a lazy idiot :D

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel the problem that people of high IQ face is that they are easily bored, and what appears to be a lack of focus is simply boredom.

Cronax

So much this ^

(yes I said the forbidden word. See how confident I am?!?)

I'm a consultant, and I'm lucky in that I've found an employer where I can tell them 'don't put me in a position that will make me do monkey work, you won't like the result'

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax LOL! Seriously though. I failed out of college TWICE. After some rumination, I realized I was bored. I applied to, and got into one of the most difficult programming schools in the nation. It was HARD, 100 of us in my class, 20 of us finished. Yep, an 80% failure rate. Boredom is the mind killer.

Nofel

boredom yes, as a example. I study from treehouse and I tried lynda.com or udemy. simple case study. I am unable to complete single course on udemy coz they don't challenge me to test my skills from what is being taught e.g no curated test from prevois chapter

on treehouse I am focused

only by some instuctor coz they give u example from lesson being daught

taught

like fill in the banks

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx I realized way too late in life that I wasn't just lazy and that a large part of my learning difficulties came from being unable to force myself to do boring things

Nofel

12:43 PM

I learn a lot n less get bored on treehouse.

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax one of the colleges I failed out of made me take BASIC. The only problem was I had been programming for over a decade already and was bored.... The only upside was I had the honor of hacking a system in BASIC

@Cronax That was why I couldn't stay in college, I couldn't pass boring classes

Nofel

@Crossedtheriverstyx what hurt me most is I had a job (the arse manager) I whined about it as if I was a pro, I got a new job and I lost it

so there is a quote, something is better than nothing

I ask myself that

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx Yeah that's why I never finished any higher education either. The increased amount of freedom together with the complete lack of interesting content was a recipe for failure :P

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel I suspect you are far brighter than you give yourself credit for being.

Cronax

@Nofel a bird in the hand is better than 10 in the bush, but when it comes to jobs I'm really not sure it applies...

Crossed the river styx

12:45 PM

@Cronax well, We're in good company. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, et cetera.

Cronax

as long as you are able to continue existing, you're fine

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax I can attest to that one. I've been destitute 3 times in my life

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx With how well skills learned at school transfer to real life, it's a wonder anyone even places any value on higher education at all

I've come close to hitting rock-bottom twice in my life, both times I was lucky to have friends and/or family who were in a position to help me out just enough that I could get myself back on my feet

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax the one phrase that always struck fear in my heart was when I heard we had a new employee who was a "recent college graduate".

TRANSLATION: I'm going to be busy watching this person as they learn that what they learned does not apply to real life.

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx Exactly. Some of them are lucky and realize it quickly, others take several years to realize that they need to get that chip off their shoulder and start learning how the real world works

I know someone who's now ~30 years old and he still hasn't realized that fact

Crossed the river styx

12:50 PM

@Cronax did you ever see the Rodney Dangerfield movie "Back to school"? It sums it up brilliantly. He's a successful businessman who goes to college to keep his son from dropping out. He has to take a business class where the professor is talking theory, and he's arguing back with real world circumstances. BRILLIANT movie

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx Does ring a bell, I'll look it up

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax the colleges and universities here in the US are doing terrible right now to the point where you even have college professors saying "don't send your children to college unless it's for the hard sciences"

Cronax

Yeah higher education is so disconnected from reality it's a joke. Here in the Netherlands a lot of schools are making an effort to change that, but it's a laughable effort if you ask me...

Crossed the river styx

@Cronax yeah, and that little thing called the internet makes it largely redundant.

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx Very true. We're better off teaching our youngsters how to find information and teach them things that you can't easily pick up

Like here in the Netherlands, nobody teaches you how to do your taxes or how to balance your checkbook

which is insane because a lot of young people end up in debt because of it

Crossed the river styx

1:01 PM

@Cronax same here. Another lost art is critical thinking. The educational system here is so broken that home-schooling is becoming more and more common.

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx Is there still a stigma on home-schooling or is it lessening? Even with the terrible reputation of the educational system, I must confess that to my perception home-schooling seems even worse XD

Crossed the river styx

That was another difference between the programming school and college. The school didn't teach you everything, you had to figure a good deal out on your own. You had to extrapolate what you were taught and apply that to come with new solutions that you were not taught. VERY hard.

@Cronax the teacher's unions in the USA are the most powerful. Home schooling threatens to break their monopoly, thus some very well funded propaganda. My daughters are being home-schooled. My eldest is one grade more advanced than her age, and learned subjects that the local school doesn't teach.

Nofel

what question ask in the end of telephonc interview?

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel "What do you like about this company?" "How long have you worked here?" "Are there any issues I have not addressed" "Do you have any concerns about me as an applicant"

Cronax

@Nofel Especially if you feel you've done badly but you're suited to the job and want it, a question like 'I get the feeling you still have some doubts, can you tell me what they are?' can sometimes help you turn things around completely

I've used that technique successfully in the past, turned a bombed interview into a job offer

Crossed the river styx

1:08 PM

@Cronax yes, I've used that too, with the same results.

@Cronax You should appreciate this one..... Rule # 167 from the Evil Overlord List 167.If I am recruiting to find someone to run my computer systems, and my choice is between the brilliant programmer who's head of the world's largest international technology conglomerate and an obnoxious 15-year-old dork who's trying to impress his dream girl, I'll take the brat and let the hero get stuck with the genius.

Cronax

@Crossedtheriverstyx XD

@Crossedtheriverstyx If you ever find yourself in the vicinity of the Netherlands, it's clear that we need to have a beer/wine/[other] sometimes

Nofel

1:33 PM

I m being asked wht Q do u have

what shld i ask

I think I did good.

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel "What do you like about this company?" "How long have you worked here?" "Are there any issues I have not addressed" "Do you have any concerns about me as an applicant"

@Cronax Deal!

motosubatsu

@Nofel see @Crossedtheriverstyx comment above,

Nofel

@Crossedtheriverstyx that like interviewing him

motosubatsu

@Nofel yep but an interview should be a 2-way process

Cronax

@Nofel Correct, that's fine, the interview goes both ways!

If the only reason a prospective employer gives for you to want to work for them is 'we will give you money every month' then you need to be very wary :P

Nofel

1:37 PM

it went well

really good

if selected its a worldwide bank

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel Good for you! And always remember, you ARE interviewing them as well. You don't want to take a bad job just because it's a job. I had one that literally nearly killed me. I'd hate to see anyone make the same mistake.

motosubatsu

nice one @Nofel ! fingers crossed for you

Cronax

@Nofel Good to hear! I hope you're aware of what kind of environment a bank is to work in though

Nofel

@Cronax what sort

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel banks are high-pressure, deadline-sensitive, and very unforgiving of errors, but also highly structured, which I think will benefit you.

Cronax

1:42 PM

@Nofel What Crossedtheriverstyx says. Also, they tend to be strictly hierarchical, formal, and incredibly slow to change

Personally I can't work for most banks, because I need the breathing room for me and my team to do the job in the best way with the best tools, without needing to jump through 1000 hoops to get permission for what we want/need

Incidentally, can I ask you guys to look at my answer here workplace.stackexchange.com/a/113614/32602

I ran out of steam halfway through so I'm afraid I missed things

Nofel

I understand what you mean, I worked for mortgages provider as well.

@Crossedtheriverstyx I am realizing I lack pratice

I do have knwoledge of everything

motosubatsu

@Cronax good answer IMO.. and I'm with you, especially on the lack of the CV part that would make this guy a hard pass for me

Nofel

almost of what is in my field but prartice

pratice comes from focus and I lack focus

motosubatsu

@Nofel focus is also something that gets better with practice though

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel I lack focus too, which is why I think a bank would be a good environment for you. I did VERY WELL with the financial companies I worked for. I think the structure of such an institution will provide you with the focus you need.

Nofel

1:54 PM

I got bbc too @Crossedtheriverstyx

=)

might have to decide between

Crossed the river styx

G'day @Magisch

motosubatsu

@Nofel that would be a nice problem to have :)

Nofel

a hard one if it comes to that @motosubatsu

Crossed the river styx

I applied to MTV once. Glad I didn't get it though

motosubatsu

@Crossedtheriverstyx I don't think going on "The Real World" counts as a job

Magisch

2:05 PM

Banks are nice because their expectations, the process and the conduct you're expected to carry is abundantly clear

Cronax

I still remember the first time I had the luxury of choosing between offers :D Now I'm used to it haha

motosubatsu

@Cronax I apply a fairly simplistic approach when "choosing" between contracts - whichever of the ones I'm happy to do give me an offer first gets the deal

it's not really feasible for perm jobs though where you have to think longer term than the next few months

Cronax

@motosubatsu Yeah I don't do contracts/short term jobs. Not intentionally at least. I became a consultant to have the best of both worlds: a steady paycheck and the ability to frequently change environments

motosubatsu

@Cronax yeah I can see the appeal.. not much call for consultant devs though really

Cronax

@motosubatsu Surely you jest?

the consultancy company I work for has about 20 or so testers, but about a much larger number of devs. Mainly java stack/ microsoft stack but also some assorted others

We're a decently-sized company, but by no means a Capgemini or Deloitte or the like

motosubatsu

2:17 PM

@Cronax I perhaps should have specified there's not much call for them near me

you get the big consultancies but the majority are in the London area

Cronax

@motosubatsu Fair enough, I can see this being a cultural difference

motosubatsu

most of the perm jobs for devs up here are vanilla in-house devs

Cronax

here on the other side of the North Sea it's very common

there are even people with the opinion that if you're a decent dev and you're not either a consultant or a freelancer, you're probably not actually a decent dev. That goes a bit far to my taste, I know plenty of good devs that prefer the stability of a single vanilla employer but it's an interesting indicator

motosubatsu

@Cronax there isn't really that attitude here.. interestingly it's quite common for the bigger consultancies to hire contractors for a substantial portion of their jobs

Crossed the river styx

@motosubatsu LOL, no it was in IT through Viacom who owned MTV at the time (do they still own it?)

Cronax

2:22 PM

@motosubatsu If you ever get tired of your side of the puddle and want to give consultancy a whirl, hit me up :D

Crossed the river styx

@Magisch yes, banks are, if nothing else, clear and predictable.

motosubatsu

@Cronax hehe will do! :)

Linkx_lair

Hello everyone! :)

motosubatsu

@Linkx_lair Afternoon :)

Cronax

@Linkx_lair Hello

Crossed the river styx

2:23 PM

@motosubatsu I work for a multinational and we deal with the UK. Any idea why consultancy is such an oddity there?

Linkx_lair

I have a question about career and resume.

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair go for it!

Linkx_lair

So like shortly after graduating from college, i started with my current company- doing Consultant work as software dev

Crossed the river styx

uh oh....

Linkx_lair

but I got into a bad car crash shortly after

Crossed the river styx

2:25 PM

and?

Linkx_lair

and had to deal with that for a couple of years.

i feel my career really has been kind of languishing and i am not sure how to address that like in job interview or career wise

motosubatsu

@Crossedtheriverstyx it's more the fact that the majority of decent sized ones are based in London - there are quite a few smaller ones up here but the pay is "meh" at best

@Linkx_lair acknowledge it..and turn it into a positive - point out how it has left you really keen to be pressing on with your career now your health issues are sorted

Linkx_lair

and it really has been keeping me very held back and uncertain. I also ended up on like some project i did not particularly like for a couple year doing SAP work

i totally hate that stuff... got ok at it- not too good-

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair Well, I was unemployed for about five years after a stroke, I think I can help you.

Linkx_lair

thank you @Cro

Crossed the river styx

2:28 PM

@Linkx_lair Find a charity and do some volunteer work for it, doing what you like to do. Use that to transition from what you're doing now to what you want to do

Cronax

@Linkx_lair yeah @Crossedtheriverstyx here is our resident 'school of hard knocks' expert, but in general I can tell you, you're probably fine

Masked Man

Hello folks, what can I do for you today?

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair or do some side work freelancing what you want to transition towards.

On future interviews, use your recovery to demonstrate how tough and determined you are.

Linkx_lair

I guess i've been feeling kind of ashamed for a while and did not press as hard i probably should have. I am kind of been picking up the pieces and doing some online courses and whatnot

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair I'd recommend the book "Rhinoceros success" for you as well.

You've already done more than most, recovered from a serious problem

Linkx_lair

2:31 PM

ok will do - thank you @Crossedtheriverstyx and @Cronax

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair Why don't you post that as a question. It would CERTAINLY be on topic and you could get some more detailed answers

Cronax

@Linkx_lair It's important to remember what you do know and what you can do, not only to focus on what you don't know and what you cannot do.

it's the first part that dictates your value, not the second

Linkx_lair

I guess - i feel a bit vulnerable even asking it here in chat...

Cronax

there are a million-and-one things I cannot do, but there are some things I am good at. It's the same for every person. If you always look at what you cannot do, then you will always feel bad

Linkx_lair

yes i hear you @Cronax

Cronax

2:37 PM

@Linkx_lair It's also good to remember that your resume is just a tool that will make it easier for you to get invited to a job interview. It's not a reflection of who you are as a person and again it doesn't dictate your worth.
At the same time, you should always be truthful in your resume since sooner or later the truth will come out. You don't have to be explicit about bad experiences if you don't want to though

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair well, then, maybe I can make you feel more comfortable. I'm hearing impaired, autistic, diabetic, learning disabled, brain injured with a five year gap of employment. Trust me, we don't judge

I've come all the way back from being homeless

We can help you

Linkx_lair

wow @Crossedtheriverstyx congrats!

motosubatsu

@Cronax wise words.. very applicable to you @Nofel as well

Crossed the river styx

@Linkx_lair feel less vulnerable now?

Linkx_lair

a bit

Crossed the river styx

2:39 PM

@motosubatsu indeed. I was always taught that the purpose of the resume is to get the interview, nothing more, nothing less.

Masked Man

@Linkx_lair You can take the discussion to a separate room if it helps you feel less vulnerable. We can get the room deleted after your discussion is done if you wish.

Linkx_lair

thank you - yeah i guess we can do that-

Nofel

@motosubatsu which words

my mrs made a point, don;t go for bbc or the bank job coz if u loose that u will have big stigma on ur cv

thoughtful and scary as well her point

motosubatsu

@Nofel Cronax said "It's important to remember what you do know and what you can do, not only to focus on what you don't know and what you cannot do."

@Nofel to be blunt that's a load of crap

Cronax

2:55 PM

@Nofel Yeah that's nonsense.

motosubatsu

if you think like that you'll be creating a self-fufilling prophecy of failure

Nofel

well if I loose bbc job in 6 months

ppl will ask why u left bbc

I cannot say it wasnt a good fit

Cronax

no matter if it's a small or a big company, "it wasn't a good fit" is always a good reason

especially in a big company, one department may be great to work for when another is terrible

or even one team is great while the other is terrible

motosubatsu

@Nofel people will always ask that, I'd rather have the BBC on my resume for 6 months than Acme Corp

Cronax

and what is a great environment for one person can be a terrible environment for another

case in point, I would be unhappy at most banks, but other people thrive in those environments

Nofel

2:57 PM

enviroment helps

@motosubatsu remember I was at the arse manager job, just coz of manager i left and it had bad influence on my personality

last 5 months role, sprung me back a little from what they did to me

motosubatsu

@Nofel that job was toxic

Nofel

hahha I know, I ask myself why cant i go there back just to keep paying bills then it remind me wht horrible was my manager

motosubatsu

@Nofel believe me it wouldn't end well

Nofel

I am glad I am out of there

the stack they were using was on deathbed

I chocked my career there too

Crossed the river styx

3:35 PM

@Nofel it's just a bump in the road, you're still young and can recover

Nofel

3:45 PM

so I passed stage one for the bank interview

woohoo

onto next part, technical

Crossed the river styx

@Nofel you can do it!

Nofel

until now I havent one that i need to give tomorrow

because focus and less knowledge

O.Rares

hi,short question, how do I tell at an interview that I need their answer in the same day because I have other offer and I want to decide as soon as possible ? I think that doesn't matter how I say it they will say that I force their hand

Masked Man

@O.Rares You mean you need their answer on the day of the interview?

O.Rares

@MaskedMan yes

Masked Man

3:56 PM

Why is waiting for a couple of days not an option?

O.Rares

because the other company called and asked me when I can go to the medical center
for a test and then to sign the contract

and I said that I tell them tomorrow

Masked Man

I think it is unrealistic to expect any company to give their decision on such short notice, so if it helps, you can treat their answer to be "no".

Besides, what if they say "yes", but then you don't like their offer? Or are you saying they should make their offer on the same day as well?

O.Rares

it is an internship interview and I think that only me and 2/3 people are selected so they could give me the answer

Masked Man

I see.

O.Rares

I don't want to sign with the first company without the answer from the second one,it makes me think that the second company can be better for me

Masked Man

4:02 PM

Can you get the first company to wait for a couple more days?

O.Rares

well if I give them my id

they can program me for the medical test in 2 weeks

but they will pay for the test tomorrow

and I don't want them to wait for me or to make them ilussions

Masked Man

Can you make them to hold that payment for a couple more days?

O.Rares

I just want the least offensive way to ask if second company can give me the answer after interview

I don't think so ,the lady told me that the medical center is very busy

Masked Man

What if the second company says they cannot make the decision tomorrow? Are you ok to skip that interview entirely?

O.Rares

she tried to push me a bit to give her the id today

I go to the interview in the morning

I don't want to skip it

If I tell them about the first company is there a way to make the HR understand?

also I don' feel good to schedule the interview and then cancel it

I can't even cancel it because it's afternoon

Masked Man

4:09 PM

What is the point of attending the interview if you know they won't be able to make the decision by end of the day? Other than doing some sort of interview practice.

Crossed the river styx

@O.Rares you may have to just fish or cut bait. Take the offer on the table, when the second company gets back to you, tell them you've accepted another offer

O.Rares

@MaskedMan because maybe I like the second company better and they give me the answer at that moment , @Crossedtheriverstyx the interview is right in the morning and they are waiting me ,if I wanted to cancel it I had to do it today

Aaron Hall

A bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush?

O.Rares

maybe the one in the bush gives better eggs

Crossed the river styx

@O.Rares never give up what you have for what you might have.

O.Rares

4:14 PM

so at 9am they are waiting me,if they get an email that I got an offer wouldn't that make then feel scammed ?

or feel disrespected?

DarkCygnus

Masked Man

@O.Rares Ok, so I guess not going to the interview is not an option.

O.Rares

I go for practice anyway

DarkCygnus

The grass is definitely greener than in the office

Crossed the river styx

@O.Rares go to the interview, but take the existing offer.

O.Rares

4:15 PM

so would be rude to ask them for a straight answer?

Aaron Hall

@O.Rares Yeah, just be sure to set their expectations that you have the offer and would require an offer letter in hand to accept an offer from them instead.

Crossed the river styx

@O.Rares yes, it would be rude

Masked Man

If you have to attend the interview anyway, I see no point in bringing that up before the interview. So attend the interview as usual, then at the end of it, ask for their decision.

Crossed the river styx

THi.... er, ^^^^^^ the above is correct

O.Rares

I would have asked at the end of interview anyway

well I hope that I do good

Aaron Hall

4:17 PM

@O.Rares good luck!

Masked Man

The problem with bringing it up before the interview is it is an unnecessary distraction for both parties.

O.Rares

also the second company is in my way to uni so I don't want to get attacked in the morning

@AaronHall thanks

Masked Man

@O.Rares Good luck!

O.Rares

@MaskedMan thanks

but what would be the best formula to ask at the end?

this was my question

Masked Man

Also don't stress too much with analysis paralysis. Xanatos Gambit is an effective strategy.

@O.Rares Don't overthink this. "I would be grateful if you can let me know your decision today as I have some other things planned." (adjust the tone depending on what your gut feeling says.)

Aaron Hall

4:21 PM

@MaskedMan that's not good enough - needs an offer letter in hand.

Masked Man

@AaronHall Ok, so "please give me your offer right now"? Not sure.

That is exactly why I was insisting on holding back the first company for a couple of days, but since he says that is not possible, it is a difficult constraint to negotiate.

O.Rares

@MaskedMan sounds good with "things planned" instead of "other offer" @AaronHall if they say yes and they made me a better impression I ask for the letter

Aaron Hall

without a letter, it is too risky to change your plans.

Lots of people get told "we want to hire you!" and then get no letter.

O.Rares

agree,I can't sign the contract at place because I need the medical test first

Masked Man

@AaronHall That is exactly right, which is why the constraints he has imposed on himself are too tight.

Aaron Hall

4:26 PM

If they aren't able to give a letter, this is just interview practice - and they'll probably be unhappy if they feel you wasted their time. Better probably to just accept the first offer so they don't have a chance to rescind it.

Masked Man

@AaronHall Ideally, he should have the second offer in hand before he communicates his decision to the first company. But that seems impossible with the time constraints described here.

O.Rares

the interview can't be canceled,it is at 9 am when they go to work

Aaron Hall

@MaskedMan there's also the risk that the first offer changes their minds.

Masked Man

The only way that could work is if the second company is ready with the letter right after the interview.

O.Rares

also

what would make a better choice ?

Masked Man

4:28 PM

@AaronHall Looks like he does have the offer from the first company though. Although I can see they could rescind it if he keeps dragging his feet on accepting it, especially since he seems to have already committed to let them know by tomorrow.

Aaron Hall

@O.Rares so go, but try not to waste their time. Maybe be forthright that you need the decision and offer letter immediately, else you must go with your first offer.

O.Rares

the first company on my internship department is made of 9 people only and the second idk but they have the headquarters in a big house so it can' be more than 10 people

@AaronHall well I don't waste their time since the interview is made for them and me to see if we can work together

It's not like I have signed already

Aaron Hall

well they're small, so they should be able to let you know immediately.

O.Rares

the interview begins with the company presentation

so that would help me clarify things

also the second company made me think that they pay better because there are expensive cars in their parking space

Aaron Hall

In a big firm you need a long lead time to get anything done, especially get someone hired.

But a bigger firm probably has more money and better standards for treating their people. Not always, but I think the rule applies in general.

O.Rares

4:33 PM

I see that big companies pay less but have more benefits

Aaron Hall

Well your situation will be unique, you're the best positioned to see all the details.

O.Rares

that since the benefits aren't very helpful,only the gym and the lunch is good

also if the company is opened 9 hours daily

that means most people work 9 hours?

Aaron Hall

4:46 PM

@O.Rares You'll have to figure it out when you get there. What country are you in?

O.Rares

Romania

Masked Man

4:59 PM

@DarkCygnus Hey, looks like we lost you amid the other discussion. That looks nice. What place is this?

DarkCygnus

5:17 PM

@MaskedMan south-south-west of Guatemala, near the coastal area. I'm on a Sugar Cane plantation :) came here to test the GPS on one app I am working with

Aaron Hall

5:27 PM

@DarkCygnus I thought you were trying to allude to the "grass is always greener" aphorism, given the context...

O.Rares

@AaronHall does the country matter ?

Aaron Hall

6:33 PM

@O.Rares sometimes - In an at-will employment jurisdiction, one might consider starting at the first place and then leaving for the other if they offer a much better opportunity. In other places (I'm thinking of, like, India), that may be impossible.

O.Rares

7:00 PM

@AaronHall after a shower I began to consider sending an email to the company informing that I don't come tomorrow,even if they will make me a good impression ,it will still be hard to choose,my biggest fear is that I may not like the first company but that doesn't imply that I will like the second one

Aaron Hall

7:23 PM

@O.Rares it's up to you. I think I'd show up but be up-front with them that you've got an offer in hand you're likely to accept.

They may decide they really want you, and print up the offer letter then and there.

O.Rares

I send them a mail,I have an exam in 2 days ,getting greedy is not a solution

Aaron Hall

You accepted?

O.Rares

yes but I don't think that they are a better option

Aaron Hall

ok, then you've accepted, I'd still show up. It's interview practice if they still want to talk to you.