The Water Cooler

Kilisi

5:48 AM

@motosubatsu you got six downvotes already, you're on a roll mate...

I posted another, I am confidently expecting to break my downvote record with it.

Feeds

0

Q: I'm just going to put this out there

As far as site vision and oblgations go, each and every answerer, questioner, and reader has their own agenda. The site is not set in stone. It can do a 360 just because of one twitter post about some fluff to do with HNQ. So while people get up in arms about the primary objective being the site...

discussion

Twyxz

7:49 AM

Morning folks

TolMera

8:09 AM

Good Morning all! :)

Hows it @Twyxz

Twyxz

@TolMera Feels good having a pay rise to still sit and do nothing on a Monday morning :)

TolMera

Lol :)

Twyxz

Developers here have no idea what they're doing, since I'm an apprentice they give me longer to do tasks

but I finish in half the time that seniors do so I just end up sitting doing nothing until given more work

TolMera

8:24 AM

Heh, careful, they will start giving you hard stuff to do if you keep doing so well...

Twyxz

I'm doing the same tasks as what they call 'seniors' but they only got these roles through internal promotions for being here for years. None of them have IT backgrounds but fell into IT when degrees and education didn't matter so much.

My manager asks them "How long would it take you for this?" then they give a time period then she doubles it for me but I do it in half then just end up sitting because she doesn't expect it

TolMera

heh, alright.

Well don't rust lol :)

You're also a .Net dev right?

Twyxz

8:47 AM

Corrrrrect

Well, training hahaha

Summer

9:02 AM

Morning!

TolMera

Morning @Summer

motosubatsu

@Kilisi broadly speaking zero f##ks given :)

Twyxz

9:21 AM

@Summer CHANGE IT BACKKKKKK :(

Summer

What? the icon?

TolMera

No, the weather.

Twyxz

Yeh :((

well that too, its bloody cold

Summer

I'm happy it's cold

TolMera

Lol :)

You're not really Summer, you're Winter in disguise.

Summer

9:23 AM

It'll go back to 15C this week sadly

sshhh I'm undercover

Twyxz

these puns

Really need to stop (rofl)

TolMera

Yea after meeting summer, I've definitely decided I'm not naming any of my kids after seasons, poor persons would have to live with this **** for the rest of their lives.

Summer

LOL

Twyxz

Anyone got any ideas on what to get my gf for christmas?

especially summer hahaha

TolMera

Coal to keep the place warm :)

get that fire started etc

Great for artwork

Summer

9:29 AM

well idk what she likes? is she into girly stuff, makeup, perfume and stuff?

Twyxz

yes and no, she likes Makeup but has infinite, she doesn't wear jewellery as such since she's a nurse doesn't have a reason to at work. Plays games, but don't wanna just buy her a game and some flowers that feels a bit lame

Summer

oh no no

makeup is never infinite

makeup is never enough

Twyxz

it is when your Mam is a manager at Mac and gets loads for free :))

Summer

Yes so she has mostly mac. But have you seen the new Huda Beauty palette?

No I'm kidding, no makeup ok.

How about a trip to something? Like an activity or concert or idk something she thinks is cool? I like zoos or horse riding or theme parks personally.

TolMera

A trip (spending time together) is always a good idea

Summer

9:36 AM

I'm taking my bf to an Odesza concert in Berlin.

Twyxz

but that means I have to spend time with her....

Im joking! O.o

TolMera

That's just cold.

Twyxz

You're right, Summer has left us

Summer

no I haven't

plus I'm cold as ice

Twyxz

thing is booking things is a terrible idea, she has no holidays

and she's working on Christmas day so god knows when shes actually free until the rota comes out

TolMera

9:40 AM

Comedy club is always good

Twyxz

Never came across one here, not looked either but that might be part of the issue

TolMera

Can be flexible, tell her you're taking her to a comedy club (or something else that's easy to just do whenever) and she can pick the time/day to work around her schedule

Twyxz

She'd more than likely get bored ahha

Summer

Yeah we've done that before too, either buy a giftcard or just get a normal card and give that with the 'promise' of going somewhere? For my bf's birthday I took him to a spa and dinner but he got to choose the date because he's usually busy with work. When he picked the date I made reservations and all was set :)

TolMera

Sit in the front row, she won't get bored that way, I almost guarantee it.

Twyxz

9:49 AM

she wouldn't want to hahah

neither would I, taking part is even worse than sitting apart of it

Summer

Could be something as simple as a giftcard for a 'date night' which includes movie and a dinner.

Or maybe there's an exclusive more expensive restaurant in the area you can take her

Twyxz

hmmm

Red dead 2, a necklace, and a dinner

sounds good :)

TolMera

...

@Summer what age range are you?

Summer

Does sound good :)

Twyxz

She's 25 ?

Summer

9:53 AM

@TolMera lol why?

Twyxz

I think

Summer

yes

bf is 32

TolMera

Because I'm wondering if we were trying to give advise from a different generation.

Twyxz

Rich boyfriend*

Summer

Well @Twyxz is sorta in my age range I guess.

Twyxz

9:54 AM

@TolMera I was thinking they are expensive gifts hahah but worth it :)

I planned on spending 200 anyway

TolMera

I'm 31, if I gave a girl in my generation dinner, a necklace and sat down to play a computer game, she would smack me.

Twyxz

100 for dinner 100 in gifts, sorted

Summer

@TolMera the game is for his girlfriend

Twyxz

depends if she likes he game (rofl)

Kilisi

@motosubatsu ahaha good for you mate

TolMera

9:55 AM

@Summer yea sure it is ;)

Summer

I'd love to get red dead 2 but someone needs to buy me a PS4 too then

Twyxz

I'm buying two copies don't you worry hahahahah

have mine :0

I've got 3 ps4's hahaha

Kilisi

with gifts you can't go wrong with the classics

Summer

I'm a pc gamer so I just haven't really put much thought into it but with games like red dead I do feel a little envious :p But buying a console you only like 1-2 games on is a bit pointless

Twyxz

Yeah i'll get her monopoly and copy of minecraft

classics...

hahaha jkjk

Kilisi

9:57 AM

last time I bought something for the wif was a black pearl pendant, ring and earrings set in gold

Summer

Really though, If my bf would f'ing finally sit down and play a boardgame with me, or better yet visit the board game cafe for christmas, I'd be so happy.

TolMera

@Kilisi that's a nice set

Kilisi

yeah very cool set

Twyxz

See Summer's advice makes sense hahahah

Summer

That sounds very nice :)

Kilisi

9:59 AM

trick is to spring them separately, just when she's WOW! at the pendant, you pull out the matching ring, then as an afterthought the earrings.... but the most important bit is to do it where her friends can see.... makes a big difference

Summer

I have a few things on my wishlist this year, but we also do secret santa with both families so that's always a thing.

Twyxz

@TolMera Regards to your generation hahaha our generation don't really go out to things like gigs, and comedy shows etc it's just difficult hahaha

I hate secret santa

I can't buy for someone I know nevermind someone I don't hahaha

Summer

Nah I think it' just personal preference, I know people who would love a comedy club, there's a very popular one in Amsterdam.

TolMera

Secret Santa = a mug

Twyxz

I always turn up with the most basic present, chocolates, wine etc.. hahaha

Kilisi

10:00 AM

Secret Sanata = edible panties

Summer

I hope they'll sell the Overwatch lego in stores here before Christmas comes around so I can just put that on the list.

TolMera

Woo go Kilisi

Kilisi

got the banana flavoured ones for a manager once, he was threatening to sack everyone when he opened it

Twyxz

always good

Kilisi

@Twyxz can't go wrong with chocs (Y)

Twyxz

10:05 AM

until she complains im making her fat after shes ate them

yeah sure

TolMera

Not sure you get how these are meant to work...

Oh, never mind, context slip

Twyxz

hahahaha

OMG

SUMMER CHANGED THE PP

Faith is restored

Summer

I did it like 1 sec after you requested it lol

@TolMera well there's men's ones too ;)

Twyxz

I only just looked in the people in this rooms section. I was like hmm theres a purple person

TolMera

moralmachine.mit.edu <<< Interesting multi choice thing about self driving cars killing people.

Summer

10:21 AM

Talking about cars and SO's, I just asked my bf how the appointment with a new contractor for our front door went this moring. His answer: 'Yeah he owns 4 alpha's he likes to work on and he really liked my car so that was cool'.

Apparently we now judge contrators by their love of cars.

Twyxz

Is that not how we judge anything?

I feel like you've just blown up my perspective on life.

Twyxz

10:38 AM

wtf i've just been told I'm going to leeds for 2 months

for work hahaha this wasn't part of the deal

Summer

I was going to ask you what that is

but it's a place righ?

Twyxz

it is indeed a place in the UK

I'm excited but not hahah

TolMera

11:00 AM

well it is leeds

Kilisi

I'd be happy to go to Leeds for 2 months

I've always wanted to go to a soccer game and watch the hooligans in action from a safe distance

Twyxz

11:31 AM

hahahah speaking of football, rip Leicester city

Summer

12:23 PM

I like that you added from a safe distance :p @Kilisi

That is me with any artist that might cause a moshpit

Twyxz

You watch artists?

Summer

1:04 PM

Not very frequently

Twyxz

sounds interesting hahha but I think it would be a one time thing for me

motosubatsu

blech

Twyxz

blech u too

Summer

idk for me it very much depends on the venue and ofc the artist. But I wouldn't go see someone I love in a very large venue, I can just turn on the tv and watch a recording at that point.

Twyxz

Wait are we talking artist or music artist here

Summer

1:11 PM

Small venues are great though, I have a few here I love and I go about 2-3 times a year I'd say?

music artist

Twyxz

Ah hahahahahah

Summer

idk what other artist type there is

Twyxz

I was like is an artist event even a thing

Like

paintings and drawings type

Summer

That is called an art gallery lol.

Twyxz

I thought you meant you watched someone do like speed art or something hahaha then I was like that stuff surely can't be on TV in the Netherlands

Summer

1:13 PM

I have to admit I don't watch Dutch cable so it might be, I wouldn't know :p

motosubatsu

@Summer "Dutch cable" <- sounds like something you don't want to click on in Urban Dictionary :D

Twyxz

...

Oh dear

Summer

Well maybe I do want to click on it.

Twyxz

oh? dear?

motosubatsu

I'm a little short on blood today.. fair warning that I might post some nonsensical scrap

Summer

1:16 PM

I wouldn't have guessed :p

Twyxz

Worse than usual? O.o

Richard U

it seems the shockwaves continue.

motosubatsu

@RichardU dare I ask what I've missed now?

Richard U

@motosubatsu it's creeping into FB, minds, hacker news, and youtube.

Summer

I have re-discovered Evernote and instantly remembered why I shouldn't use this. I have spent the last hour organising and noting shit while I should be working.

Richard U

1:19 PM

it won't go away

@Summer evernote is proof of, if not God, but that the devil is alive, well, and busy

Summer

yeah so I'm now basically getting paid to write stuff down about a trip to japan next year. So I guess that's cool. Until anyone finds out.

Twyxz

I've just bought red dead... I couldn't help it

it's over for me

Summer

nice :) tell me how the horse testicles were

3

Twyxz

if I make it through the night alive

I say this as my nights and days merge, I lose track of what day of the week it is. IT's over for me, I have developed an addiction I have yet to even start playing

That was poetic

motosubatsu

@RichardU I saw Jay Hanlon's fauxpology on twitter the other day but haven't really seen much else

Richard U

1:36 PM

@motosubatsu yeah, his posts were.... interesting. I must say, he was brave to post that. And by that, I mean "brave" in the precise way that a British MP says it about another British MP

TolMera

@motosubatsu link?

Richard U

cheese it's the cops

motosubatsu

@TolMera no can do.. can't get to twitter on the network here

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@RichardU what wont go away?

Elysian Fields

1/ This post is critical of us, but it’s worth reading anyway. The empathy, introspection, and open-mindedness the author shows here is also what makes him a great moderator. https://medium.com/@HDE226868/the-things-that-hurt-ce5a893abb53

Tweeted by JayHanlon on October 27, 2018 at 6:13 PM

I think?

Magisch

1:42 PM

@RichardU Internet outrage is fickle and easy to ignore

i don't think we'll hear anything beyond the new social media policy and then "moving on"

Richard U

@Magisch you'd be surprised at the staying power of a slow burn, especially when one feels personally wronged.

Like when someone is talked about behind their back, or banned from somewhere then becomes a topic of conversation after that person is banned.

Elysian Fields

Eventually, the frog realizes water is boiling

motosubatsu

@ElysianFields yep.. thanks

Richard U

@ElysianFields indeed. The twitterstorm is not the problem it's the symptom.

There is much ill will ready to boil over, and lots of people willing to tell some stories.

Elysian Fields

SE can only disrespect the people who volunteer to make them money so long before those people get pissed off enough to quit. First in small amounts, but you can see from the massive negative response nearly anything SE puts on meta that it's not "small" numbers of people irritated at them

Richard U

1:46 PM

@ElysianFields yeah, what's that one post down to now? -179 the last time I looked.

I watched Tech Republic suffer a similar fate. They were HOT in the late 1990s and early 00's, and they drove us all off.

Magisch

@ElysianFields We're a "small obnoxious minority resistant to change" after all

yes, I've milked that meme for a while now :p

Elysian Fields

@Magisch stop sealioning! something something

Richard U

I'd post the NPC meme, but that would get me banned for life

Magisch

real talk though, what are you hoping for @ElysianFields ?

Elysian Fields

@Magisch I'm hoping I leave for work shortly. brb :P

Magisch

1:49 PM

I think expecting an official recanting & deletion of the tweets is off the table, as is reversing the rash decision, as is incorporating more meta feedback into things

Richard U

Be polite, and your ignored.
Be polite repeatedly, and you're "Sea lioning"
Be forceful, and you're rude
Be forceful with other people, and you're "Dog Piling"
Continue to be forceful, and you're banned

@Magisch does that sum it up?

Summer

If it wasn't for SE, I would have never learned about Sea Lioning and Dog Piling. And I do love my animals.

motosubatsu

@Summer just remember.. you can't say anything negative about animal abusers - that's verboten here

Richard U

Can you dogpile on a sealion?

@motosubatsu does that include spanking the monkey?

Summer

@motosubatsu nothing positive either though, otherwise I might be tagged as a sea lion.

motosubatsu

1:54 PM

@Summer either that or you'd be mansplaining.. which I suppose would be womansplaining in your case

Summer

omg mansplaining

I joined an all girl gamer discord and I basically just ran out of there. All they talk about it gender assuming, mansplaining and god knows what else.

Magisch

eh

Richard U

Ah yes, "mansplaining"
Defininition: Men should shut up.

Magisch

some people don't want to talk and that's fine, they just want to vent or want people to agree

Summer

It was important you make it clear what your gender is because you really don't want anyone assuming you to be a gender you're not. Yet all genders should be equal.

Magisch

1:56 PM

@RichardU It actually does have legitimate uses. If you're debating about the ins and outs of policy regarding the female reproductive system, being a man colors your view on those matters and mansplaining is used as a buzzword to convey that in a snappy way

Richard U

Since I'm diabetic, hearing impaired, autistic, poor, and have been homeless, and a few other things I do not care to discuss, is my "lived experience" giving me more weight to my opinions?

Summer

I really don't get how anyone can make such a fuzz over calling you a 'him' when all they have to guesstimate that is a weird nickname and a generic avatar.

Richard U

@Magisch no, it's simple sexism.

Magisch

because "Your perspective colors your position in this debate and you ought to empathize with different perspectives instead of assuming everyone has your frame of reference" does not fit into 140 characters

Richard U

@Summer a friend of mine and I were on a site, decades ago. All the time, she assumed I was a woman, and I had been assuming she was a man. Our tones disguised our gender.

Summer

1:58 PM

@Magisch I feel like that's so hypocritical though? All these women want is equality and being understood by others, yet when a man tries to put himself in their shoes he's mansplaining?

Richard U

@Magisch in other words "Men, shut up"

Magisch

@Summer no clue either, but I'm not a marginalized minority (at least not because of my gender) so I have really no firsthand experience to see why it might be grating

@Summer Nobody's immune to hypocrisy

motosubatsu

@RichardU people have frequently gotten my gender wrong over the years on the internet

Richard U

@Summer but when a woman does the same thing, it's "Men need to listen to a woman's perspective"

Magisch

I think one of the fundamental failures of social media is intertwining politics and debate with private social lives

Summer

1:59 PM

idk maybe I just don't understand other women :')

Magisch

People posting on twitter overwhelmingly do not want to be argued with, challenged or disagreed with. They want to express themselves to a group of like minded individuals.

Richard U

@motosubatsu I readily admit that I am not the most masculine of types, and most of my friends are women, so that has likely affected my speech patterns

motosubatsu

@Summer that's ok.. I don't understand women either, or men for that matter

Richard U

@Summer I don't understand humanity. That's why I'm a misanthrope.

Summer

I can see and understand the need for equality and understanding, even though it has never been an issue to me. But the whole hatred towards men, the mansplaining, throwing the sexism card everywhere.

Magisch

2:00 PM

@Summer women are not a monolith

and the ones you see making fools of themselves in public are a minority

Richard U

@Magisch don't tell that to 4th wave feminists, they'll eat you alive.

Summer

@Magisch I'm talking specifically about the ones from the all girls chat ;)

Magisch

yeah

Richard U

but wait, @Magisch are you presuming to speak for women?

Magisch

an action sometimes provokes equal and opposite reactions

Richard U

2:01 PM

MGTOW

Magisch

I must admit I'm very tempted to blindly hate on very religious folks whenever I get out of a 2 hour conversation of them calling me an abomination unto the lord

I can totally see why

Richard U

@Magisch yeah, the guy who shot up the synagogue felt much the same way.

Magisch

between strong dislike and shooting up a place are worlds though

Richard U

I have to honestly say that I don't hate anyone... Well, there is one person, but that's due to a very personal matter and a criminal case.

Summer

idk I think religion is pretty magisch ;) for real though, the concept is very cool to me. I'm not religious myself but I can see why people are so drawn to it and I think it's very interesting to read about the origins.

Richard U

2:04 PM

@Summer the lack of religion has produced much worse.. SEE: 20th century socialism/communism.

Religion serves as a restraining bolt to our most base desires.

TolMera

@RichardU 4th wave? They are coming in Waves? Quick defend the tower!

Magisch

@RichardU I'm a feminist, although I don't associate with any wave

Am I evil?

Richard U

If you believe in some sort of supreme being, you also believe that no misdeed will go umpunished.

@Magisch I dunno... Are you like the famous feminist, Harvey Weinstein? Russian Deadpool, Matt Lauer?

Summer

I disagree Richard, just as with the lovely feminists, there's extremists and people who actually use their own brains to think.

Richard U

I tell my female friends, and my daughters to avoid male feminists, and there are numerous feminist articles saying the same thing.

Summer

2:06 PM

But yeah the history of religion is one of the few historic subjects that interest me.

Magisch

@RichardU thing is, that's a lost cause with me anyways. I'm asexual and aromantic

motosubatsu

@RichardU only if you also believe that a) you and said supreme being have the same definition of "misdeed" and b) that said supreme being gives a rodent's posterior about anything you do

Richard U

@Summer as with everything, it needs to be taken as a whole.

TolMera

@Magisch Aromatic?

IDrinkandIKnowThings

Think about this: We could be living in a computer simulation. If that is the case then isnt that literally proof of some supreme being?

Richard U

2:07 PM

@IDrinkandIKnowThings you've been studying quantum theory again, haven't you?

@motosubatsu I'm speaking in very broad terms here, which is the only way to address it.

Summer

I'm both surprised and a little disappointed nobody has created a religion that believes we live in a computer simulation. Like the flying spaghetti monster 2.0

Richard U

Most of the religions of the world advocate kindness towards each other.

TolMera

@Magisch Sorry I see my mis-reading, I missed the N in AromaNtic - did make me laugh (hard) though

motosubatsu

@Summer gap in the market?

Richard U

@Summer they have, there are people who worship the internet as sentient and as a god.

motosubatsu

2:09 PM

@RichardU we call them "millennials"

Summer

@RichardU but what's the name of the religion then?

Richard U

@motosubatsu LOL

Summer

I'm a millennial and now personally feel offended.

Richard U

@Summer I think they called themselves "net mages" for a while.

TolMera

@motosubatsu Mwahaha

Richard U

2:10 PM

@Summer A millennial saying their offended is like water announcing it's wet.

I've been through too many horror's in this lifetime to get offended by much anymore.

TolMera

Ok all this laughing is going to get me in trouble for not working! but damn Y'all funny.

Summer

I honestly don't really get offended... I feel like I don't belong.. oh wait, yes I'm a millennial.

Twyxz

Hmmm

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@RichardU Want to go deeper? I have a theory that your reality and my reality are distict subsets of a reality R that share mostly a common base but sometimes our realities are actually different and some mental illness is the result of trying to resolve those difference

Twyxz

37 hours flexi (full week) RDR2 purchased... next week could be a good week

motosubatsu

2:12 PM

@Summer nah.. you posted that here rather than raging about it on facebook :)

Richard U

@IDrinkandIKnowThings Yes, I've heard that theory. Boy, I could write an essay or two.

TolMera

@IDrinkandIKnowThings I support your theory.

Twyxz

for us millenials

motosubatsu

I'm just yanking the general millenial-chain.. I actually know and like some millenials so no offence intended Mister/Miss @Twyxz / @Summer

Richard U

@Twyxz I have never worked less than 40 hours a week in my life. My dad never under 50 until he got laid off, then he kept himself busy in retirement by working.

I don't blame the milenials, they were lied to .

Elysian Fields

2:14 PM

@Magisch I think what I want most is for SE to double down on their company direction. Are they going to ignore the Q/A side of things and put that into maintenance mode? Just say it. They act that way but then say things that are different than that...

Richard U

Milenials were told that they were special, that life was fair, and that people actually cared. Then, they get into the real world and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Elysian Fields

are they going to actually care about Q/A? pick 10 easy to implement quality of life features and actually do them

Richard U

@ElysianFields the big red flag for me was the new behavior policty.

TolMera

@RichardU what do you mean lied to?

Richard U

policy

TolMera

2:15 PM

Oh

Yea, that

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@RichardU What is wrong with it?

Magisch

@ElysianFields think tim said at some point that all the QoL changes core users like had a "sponsor" ie a dev who liked the idea enough to do it on their own

Twyxz

It's not fair at all we all know this. Girls who can't spell their names but have a pair of boobs are making 6 figures through posting on instagram

youtubers are making 7 figures for recording whatever they want

Magisch

And as the relationship between community and devs deteriorates and as fewer read meta, that won't happen anymore

Elysian Fields

@Magisch sure but that problem was 5 years ago. SE needs to get with the times

Twyxz

2:16 PM

Then the only figure I'm making is the little round one at the bottom of my stomach

Magisch

@ElysianFields tim also wrote something about adjusting expectations

Richard U

@IDrinkandIKnowThings The way it's written shows disrespect for the userbase. Really? Having a flag specifically for bigotry?

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@Twyxz I watch twitch alot. Some of those streamers make 10k+ a week for playing video games online

Magisch

we're never going to get the old rate of quick implementation of small feature

everything goes through hordes of middle management now

Elysian Fields

@Magisch but like I said, it's 5 years too late at this point

this problem has existed for the better part of a decade

Richard U

2:17 PM

@Twyxz oh, it was like that for a long time. Early Hollywood always cast the biggest boobs

Elysian Fields

SE finally is "oh hey this is actually annoying!" realization? great. We've been suffering this pain for a looong time

Magisch

I'm 100% unconvinced anything will change, though

Twyxz

@RichardU Now you don't even need to be relevant, just post pictures that arouse little boys into buying paid pictures

Richard U

SE has the same problem that many companies are having, they can't keep up with the culture on the very technoliogies they created.

@Twyxz we call that biology

it's also backlash.

Elysian Fields

@Magisch I agree

Twyxz

2:18 PM

Unfortunately I'm not a scientist

Magisch

@ElysianFields you have a lot more influence on that level then me

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@Magisch Thats because they are just treating a symptom not dealing with the root problem... because that problem is that the conflict is what attracts some people to interweb forums like SE.

Elysian Fields

USERS: we love twitter but it has problems TWITTER: great we'll fix them USERS: do you want to know what they are TWITTER: absolutely not

Tweeted by actioncookbook on January 5, 2016 at 11:14 PM

Richard U

@Twyxz males are very visual. We are trained to see a healthy mate that will be able to raise our children. That's what it all comes down to.

Elysian Fields

@Magisch several years ago I realized that fundamentally, SE cannot care about Q/A since it's not making them more revenue.. adjusting my expectations in light of that was one of the most freeing things I have done with respect to SE

I might have more influence but I don't have enough fucks, as the phrase goes

Richard U

2:20 PM

@ElysianFields it could be a massive revenue source if they did just a few tiny things. I will not mention these things unless paid to do so.

Elysian Fields

SE hasn't convinced me they want to take the Q/A seriously

They have convinced me they take PR seriously

Summer

@motosubatsu I have no facebook anymore but I think that's actually a trend amongst millennials now too :')

Richard U

@ElysianFields ditto. and until they do, no helpf from me.

motosubatsu

@Summer good on you.. facebook is the great evil of our time

Magisch

@ElysianFields But you're a moderator. You have plenty of f*s to give every day

Richard U

2:22 PM

@Summer even we old farts are walking away from FB. For me, it's my primary trolling outlet.

Magisch

jay isn't wrong when he says this show comes down like a house of cards without the likes of you

motosubatsu

@ElysianFields yeah... they aren't very good at it.. but bless 'em they do take it seriously

Richard U

@Magisch faint praise to anesthetize the wound from the dagger in the back.

Summer

I have instagram still, which I enjoy to keep track of friends/trends/fandoms etc but I'm also just not that into that either. I think that's mostly my personality though, I don't get very enthusiastic about anything lol

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@ElysianFields The changes to Area 51 support that theory\

motosubatsu

2:24 PM

Jay's tweet-saga was nothing more than theatre.. nothing from the well-written pieces by Monica et al was actually addressed

Richard U

I keep going back to tech republic. They wanted more revenue, so they sold out all the oldtime hackers and contributers, now it's a wasteland earning next to no revenue.

SE is making the very same mistakes.

The code of conduct looks like it was written to scold petulant children.

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@Magisch Long before EF took on the Mod Hat he was a very active user that helped the site succeed.

@RichardU Because the problem is we have a few petulant children, that refuse to play by the rules and intentionally go out of the way to cause havoc. Because this is the Interwebs

Richard U

@IDrinkandIKnowThings then you deal with the few, and not institute a new policy over it.

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@RichardU They are more than a few, and there were no rules for dealing with them.

Richard U

I cannot see someone seing the new policy and saying to themselves "Gee, I thought being a bigot WAS being nice, now I know that it is not, and to make up for my past deeds, I will run out and help someone in need"

IDrinkandIKnowThings

2:31 PM

So they had to write the rules that say you cant be an asshat.

Richard U

@IDrinkandIKnowThings sure there was "You are violating the be nice policy", stop or you will be kicked out. Done.

Wait, isn't that bigoted towards asshats?

IDrinkandIKnowThings

No one cares if you are bigoted against asshats. Well except for the Asshats themselves.

Rules do not fix problems, they provide a method for the people in charge to address those causing problems.

Twyxz

And get paydays from fines

motosubatsu

The thing is I totally get that the SE network is SO (the company)'s trainset and they can have whatever rules they like within laws, I just find it so frustrating that they can't just come out and say plainly what their position is - all the recent contortions and BS just feels so.. childish

Richard U

@IDrinkandIKnowThings yep, and be nice was a rule, a clear one. This is not a code of conduct, it's condescending scolding of the entire user base over the actions of the very few, thus demonstrating that they were beyond their depth.

IDrinkandIKnowThings

2:38 PM

@RichardU Nice for you and me != Nice for everyone else though

Richard U

How I would write a COC:

1)Be welcoming
2)Be kind
3)Be patient
4)Be understanding.

with some elucidation.

@IDrinkandIKnowThings eh, I don't place myself above others. I figure if a back-asswards, socially awkward autistic such as myself can follow plain rules, so can anyone.

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@RichardU Its not that we are better or worse, we are just different and think in different ways.

Richard U

I think if they REALLY wanted to get serious, a simple $10 per year subscription fee would do the trick. That would keep the sock puppets down to a minimum, generate some revenue, and tighten the conduct because only people who WANTED to be here would be here.

But, as has been pointed out, the focus seems to be more on PR than solutions.

Twyxz

Then you lose a lot of new users who actively contribute after asking their first question

motosubatsu

@RichardU the problem with the subscription model is that SE relies on the uneven levels of reciprocity - I doubt people like John Skeet would be interested in paying to share their knowledge

Richard U

2:44 PM

@motosubatsu and that would be a way to make rep actually WORTH something. waive the fee after a rep of X

Oooops, almost posted some more free advice.

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@RichardU You lose the Wisdom of the Crowd with that

motosubatsu

@RichardU but you'd need to pay for a while to get there.. you could implement a "free subscription month for each accepted answer" or similar but it would be trivial to circumvent.

Richard U

SE Is starting to remind me of the companies who thought video tapes would harm the business or that there was no way to profit off of streaming video

They haven't figured out how to monetize their model yet.

motosubatsu

also going pay-walled played it's part in that other Q&A site going bankrupt

Richard U

@motosubatsu I know that what they're doing here is exactly what turned Tech Republic into an empty shell.

motosubatsu

2:48 PM

monetizing Q&A is hard there's no doubt about it - so there SE has my sympathies, but given the answers are essentially one of the network's USPs pissing off the suppliers of those doesn't strike me as a smart long-term plan

IDrinkandIKnowThings

@motosubatsu Monetizing will require giving up a fine level of control that the few at the top keep with the current model. Its not that they dont know how to make the money, its that they want to have their control, and make money.

Richard U

@motosubatsu there is a way to do it, and if paid, I'll reveal that.

You know, a year ago, I would have been volunteering this information for free.

I've saved a few business already by tweaking them slightly. This would be easy.

BradC

SO was created as a better, free replacement for the subscription-based experts-exchange.com

requiring paid accounts would kill it, dead

D E A D

And now that the genre/method has been well-established, a (probably lousy) clone site would spring up to replace it

and the world would be worse off

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