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12:31 AM
@RichardU Those are 3 different answers which happen to be represented by the same word, that is all. Anyway, we don't look for one word answers here.
 
 
6 hours later…
6:12 AM
@puzzlepiece87 True, but one thing I like about it is that it cuts out most of the nonsensical rambling that chatrooms and forums are prone too and it does so by design. The fact that an entire site is basically dedicated to "what if" discussions really irks me.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:27 AM
@Lilienthal we'll see how it comes out, but what if is a spin-off from Worldbuilding. Because what if [the German won WWII] are not accepted on WB. So some people decided to create a new site for it. The start of the site would/will be critical, IMHO.
 
7:45 AM
@bilbo_pingouin .... I thought you were joking.
142
What if?

Proposed Q&A site for people who have a hypothetical situation they want answered.

Currently in commitment.

 
it seems I somehow lost track of the whole thing... there were one "what if" meant as a worldbuilding-like... but to collect the questions refused on WB...
that one seem to have taken a turn to something else
 
 
2 hours later…
10:13 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Frankly, I'm rather surprised to see that you still haven't realised that your personal morality isn't shared by the entire world. Based on the discussions I've seen you start the problem isn't due to cultural differences but rather your overly moralistic attitude. — Lilienthal 16 secs ago
Not sure if this is crossing a line but I'm starting to think it's time someone spoke up against this guy.
3
 
10:33 AM
@lil I used to be like this kinda
 
To be honest, I don't see the discussion going too badly at least until your comment. But pointless, sure. They (Lightness) aren't going to be convinced. So there's nothing to gain the in that discussion.
 
@Lilienthal I had the answer flagged for moderator attention before your remark to move everything to chat.
 
Well I've gone ahead and invited him to join chat if he wants to discuss it further as it is wildly off-topic to the post at hand.
Oh, good answer by the way @Mast.
Ah, mods cleaned up the thread. I think that's probably the best solution.
 
10:56 AM
@Lilienthal Thanks. I'm usually just leeching this place, but that comment deserved to be turned into an answer. Didn't have much to do to turn it into one.
 
11:21 AM
41
A: Is being casual unprofessional?

KilisiAs a 17 year old you'll probably find two sorts of clients to start with. Those who already know you or are referred to you and online ones wanting cheap work done. With the online ones it's not actually necessary to meet them physically. I've done a lot of work for people I have never met. I've...

Somehow I can't picture Kilisi as a gamer. It just doesn't match the International Strongman vibe. :)
 
12:18 PM
@MaskedMan It was an analogy, not to be taken quite so literally. The point of it, is that an answer may technically fit another question, but it doesn't mean that the question isn't looking for a different answer. The first question I asked at this site was killed because another question had answers that the people who closed it thought applied to my situation. They did not.
 
man I've never gotten so many upvotes on an answer I link on a HNQ before today
going to repcap on a link this time
 
@enderland I don't understand the voting. The highest rated answer I got, I think was for that question about a company that screwed a P.Eng, then wanted to know how to force him to stop his job action.
 
This is probably a worthwhile answer to read through as it's pretty much the same problem - workplace.stackexchange.com/a/7342/2322enderland ♦ 18 hours ago
that comment has gotten me 140 rep today so far already
 
My top rated answer is on the question "Is it rude to email a coworker that I expect him to do something" which, tl;dr yes it is
especially if you're not his manager
double especially if you cc 10 more people
 
Zak
@RichardU I remember that one. Remember thinking "I've never met this engineer, but I'm absolutely rooting for him"
 
12:40 PM
@RichardU I just read the question to your top answer and the answers to it
This company is so hosed
Like, so hosed
And they can't fire him either since he could very easily spin that into that he got fired for refusing to sign unsafe tests and then they're even more hosed
 
1:01 PM
aannnnnd repcap again. only 13 more days of it
 
Meh
@enderland Did you read that P.Eng question?
 
I'd read it before
 
It reads like some kind of drama movie
 
@Magisch The OP was absolutely out for blood too. There's an old German proverb, "When you set out for revenge, first dig two graves", and an American saying, "When you're in a hole, stop digging".
@Magisch The OP also refused to listen to any advice that didn't include screwing the P.Eng further. He had them over a barrel.
 
@RichardU I take great pleasure in imagining OP and the dunces above him realizing just how hosed they are and just how much their little "Lets promote a family kid as a favor but have our one actually decent guy pick up the slack while still getting paid less" not just didn't work but came back to bite them
Thats what happens when you have a good, dependable employee who has earned a promotion duely and instead of giving it to him when it comes up, you screw him. Very few people react positively to that, and that guy is a highly intelligent highly qualified highly important engineer - what did they think could possibly happen?
 
1:13 PM
@Magisch My present employer is currently going through a similar situation. He was a very patient man and gave them two years to deliver on what he wanted. They are going to need to hire three people to replace him, and they won't do near as good a job.
 
My company didn't. we have one guy with a master's and a whole truckload of experience in the field, so much so that we get lots of contracts just for advertising that he'll be working on them
You're damn right the company owners bend backwards for him
 
@Magisch I know I come across as a hardass, but taking care of your people makes good sense from a business standpoint. Happy employees are more productive, are more loyal to the company, and will go above and beyond.
I once had a manager who was so protective of his people that we would have marched into hell and sworn we had frostbite if he'd asked us to.
@enderland I can sense your disapproval through your brevity
 
@RichardU heh it was a mess. :P
 
Its great to see that sometimes, people who play with hellfire get to feel it, too
@enderland I'd love to see the deleted comments on that
the P.Eng thread I mean
 
there's only 56 I guess
 
1:21 PM
I see that some of OP's have been deleted in the chat conversion
I'd love to see those
 
@Magisch The OP was ranting and raving in them, the situation was even worse than the question suggests. Details came out such as it was a nephew of a board member who was unqualified, and eventually sacked. The OP was also frustrated as hell over the fact that we wouldn't help her screw the P.Eng
I think that was the most thorough dressing down I've ever given anyone.
@Magisch the OP's comments were histrionic, to say the least. Definitely a LOLCow
 
 
1 hour later…
2:32 PM
@enderland I was one of them, great answer @enderland :)
 
@puzzlepiece87 quite literally, I got that badge for it today ;-) haha
wow. another question from workplace on HNQ
man. HNQ is so screwed up
 
Why?
It's good for workplace, right? I know HNQ is a double-edged sword, but at least workplace is popular?
 
It just seems weird that we'd have four questions all on HNQ at once
 
Or do we prefer it to be the size it is now for site culture reasons, or?
 
HNQ causes a lot of work for me as a moderator, heh
 
2:39 PM
Ah. Well I have been mildly surprised by which questions have appeared but I am not surprised workplace is popular.
It's both relevant to a lot of people and a well-managed subsite.
 
Speaking of, an answer I wrote spontaneously this morning that will net me zero rep is currently +10 because of HNQ
 
Speaking of things that are popular/unpopular that surprise me, I am surprised Dating & Relationships never made it out of beta considering how popular questions that have gender as a central facet become on workplace.
 
@puzzlepiece87 considering how many flags and, ah, unpleasant things come on those sorts of questions, I'm not :P
 
Dating and Relationships was active when I first started coming to coming to SE, I think I saw them in HNQ occasionally
@enderland Ha, Amen to that, looking through the top rated questions on the people's rep rankings, it doesn't look like as many intelligent questions were asked as could be hoped for either.
 
subjective stuff is hard on SE
I'm shocked most of the time that Workplace works as well as it does tbh
3
 
2:47 PM
@Lilienthal I'm a world-building supporter, when I read their HNQ it seems like they generally get thoughtful, well-informed answers :) The nature of the question doesn't bother me as long as people are finding interesting, well-informed things to say.
@Lilienthal I am guessing you are not a fan of the what if xkcds either?
@enderland I am not sure if this either reinforces your point (you're surprised we do so well at answering in this way) or explains it (you're not sure why workplace does well, answering in this way is why), but I think Workplace does a great job of keeping it as objective as possible. There's a lot of key tenets repeated over and over: everyone should be treated with respect. Learn, grow. Communicate well. Be forthright even when someone has it out for you.
 
I more mean the entire site being successful
 
Salvage salvageable situations by thinking about the other person's viewpoint, abandon those that aren't. Don't try to manage people who you aren't the manager of.
 
everything here is somewhat subjective - many (most?) similarly subjective sites on SE I've seen tear themselves to pieces
 
@enderland What does that mean? The different community members struggle against each other?
 
3:10 PM
hah. my wife is getting a job, but one of her references apparently went MIA and hasn't responded, which is holding the process up
 
Zak
@puzzlepiece87 The problem with any (inherently) subjective site is that there is no arbiter of what is "right" other than the opinions of the masses. Which means it becomes dominated by politics.
 
@Zak Is that a problem? Sounds like real life?
 
Zak
@puzzlepiece87 It's a problem in that most nascent human communities don't survive to maturity.
And those are communities where people (generally) live and work together and interact with each other and have strong incentives not to ruin the whole thing.
 
@Zak Interesting point. Well-put.
 
Zak
With a site based on an existing well-defined community, or based on some kind of factually-verifiable subject, the community can always fall back on a foundation of what is right and/or established convention.
For something more subjective, you have none of those to fall back on, so either the community manages to never ever make a fatal mis-step, or it implodes (or explodes) in some way shape or form.
 
3:19 PM
@Lilienthal Worldbuilding, like any subjective site including Workplace, has to contend with the "I want to discuss $topic" problem (as opposed to "I have an answerable question about $topic"). I don't think Worldbuilding does worse with this than other subjective sites. We shut down the forum-style questions.
 
@MonicaCellio I closed a question here in 9 seconds the other day which was totally off topic, heh
 
@enderland wow, what timing!
 
@enderland is a fgitw ;)
He closes as fast as he can to be the first close on the page, then edits his close to be better afterward :P
That's why he hit the rep cap yesterday
 
@puzzlepiece87 lol :P
I answered this after I had already recapped today, and it's a HNQ too
 
@enderland (joking) Which begs the question if it's a HNQ because you answered it or people like the title?
 
3:34 PM
@puzzlepiece87 I've wondered that before, I tend to write fairly extensive answers and end up on HNQ a lot -- causation? correlation? :)
 
What are the criteria the system uses for HNQ?
 
I think it's a combination of vote count, view count, and answer count over time
in other words, magic :)
 
3:56 PM
There's a velocity component, for sure -- a question that gets a bunch of answers quickly is likely to show up even if those answers aren't highly-voted.
 
TWP is a thing...
People on SO can use it to pass time without inviting suspicion
nobody moans if you have SO open, and on the same domain roughly, managers think "this is some addon to SO"
 
Zak
@Magisch TWP?
 
the workplace
 
@Magisch That's exactly why I'm here :D
My Excel spreadsheet is currently ticking up 1% every 2 min or something
(array formulas)
 
Zak
@Magisch I actually barely use SO these days except when google leads me there. All of my time is generally spent over on Code Review.
 
4:08 PM
Stackexchange is the only place I'll go on my work computer so I can keep up my professionalism
 
Zak
@puzzlepiece87 If you want, I can take a look and offer some advice.
 
@Magisch feature-request: chrome extension to format all SE sites like SO :P
@Zak I like Code Review tbh
 
@Zak Thank you very much for offering! But I think it's running efficiently, it's just a ton of data and I'm doing an expensive function
It's my team's fault, we had some miscommunication and now we're redoing something from scratch rather than just dealing with this month's data :)
 
I've not had to touch office apps since starting here. #win
 
I'm primarily business with developer on the side - I don't mind Office apps. I like how they help inform my strategic recommendations
 
4:14 PM
I'm using SO to learn
Its nice for a complete scrub like me
 
I even like VBA even though it is the most reviled language :P
I learned from SO too
 
@puzzlepiece87 I'm not a fan of its subject matter but that by itself isn't that big a deal. What I take issue with is the apparent lack of policing done by the community or, to be honest, the mods. I see endless discussion threads on there that should just be wiped if we want to respect the SE spirit. Frankly, on its best days it doesn't seem all that different from /r/whatif or /r/writingprompts. The biggest requirement to participating seems to be an active imagination.
As for XKCD, I don't waste my time on their what-ifs but the issue is that a humorous article is in the right place there. They don't belong on SE.
 
@puzzlepiece87 it was my first language, and I'd consider myself an expert with it
 
@MonicaCellio Assuming you're moderating it I'll take your word for it as I don't visit the site. But based on the HNQs that show up that doesn't really seem to be working that well.
 
but... I'm more than glad I don't write it now, hahahaha
 
4:19 PM
@enderland It was a good stepping stone for me as a non-programmer coming from Warcraft 3 world editor gui
 
Right, that's the last tab. I get too many bloody notifications. :)
 
They are similar - object-oriented
 
@enderland Amen. :)
 
@Lilienthal I like the worldbuilding HNQs usually but I will give them a more critical eye in the future to see if I'm glossing over something.
 
@Lilienthal it's a large, active community so tends to have several spots on HNQ, plus the clickbait titles, while usually not intended, probably help.
 
4:21 PM
Keep in mind that I'm just one guy. Don't take my word for gospel.
 
I won't, but I like to be open-minded. I value your take :)
 
Evidently a large section of the userbase likes it. I consider Puzzling another black sheep in that regard. :)
 
Lol, I would agree with you more on puzzling if pressed
But I feel like in general I want to be the kind of person who embraces people enjoying what they enjoy - I don't want to be a cane-shaker when I get older
 
And yeah, any subjective site that can get away with click-bait (Arcade, Puzzling, WB) or "I've totally been there!" (Workplace) is great HNQ material.
 
So I'm happy that the puzzling people enjoy their thing even if I don't find the answers or questions very high quality.
 
4:23 PM
@puzzlepiece87 I've already graduated to swatting people with the cane and I'm not even out of my thirties.
 
Those kids and their (blanks!)
 
Zak
4:48 PM
@puzzlepiece87 VBA is brilliant at what it was designed to do, which is to develop file-specific software that inter-operates with anything in the MS ecosystem, especially other Office Apps.
Most of the hate comes from the fact that the barrier to entry is incredibly low, so you get a much higher incidence of people writing VBA "code" that is just a horrible ungodly mess.
Good VBA code is just as good as other good code, it's just there's a lot more of the terrible stuff out there.
Same problem as PHP.
 
@RichardU Uhm, yeah, but as I said, I didn't make that rule. Some random diamond guy told me that. The diamond guys over here are very reasonable (except perhaps when religion and feminism are involved). But some diamond guys are StackExchange employees, and they just don't listen to anyone else.
 
5:22 PM
@Zak I'm an expert in VBA, and I have built a career by cleaning up the messes of those low-entry people. I revamped an application and took processing from 10 hours to under ten minutes.
The old joke about VBA is that any idiot can code in it, and just about every idiot does. The "Record Macro" feature has been the bane of many a coder's existence as we go back to clean up the messes.
 
Zak
@RichardU We get that at least once a week over on CR "My Macro takes 10 hours to run, how can I make it faster" "Well, not writing to/from the worksheet (and also triggering calculations & screenupdating) 10 Million times would be a good start"
 
@MaskedMan if a topic is remotely political, I don't even bother anymore. What irks me though is when some jerk goes and edits my posts to make them Gender neurtral.
 
Zak
@RichardU People do that?
wow.
 
@Zak Yeah, I've gone back three times already to undo the edits.
 
Zak
Like, suggesting it as a comment, I get, but unilaterally re-writing someone's answer just to conform to your own worldview, that's something else.
 
5:28 PM
You can imagine how well that was received. Next time that happens, I'll invite the person into a chat room.
 
@RichardU The line for what offends people keeps getting lowered every day.
 
@MaskedMan The funny thing is that those of us who have actually had some pretty offensive stuff done to us have developed a thick skin.
 
Somewhat related, look for examples of the clbuttic mistake. Many of them are quite hilarious.
 
@MaskedMan I was moderating on a site where you could customize the philters. A few of us committed mischief by filtering a few odd words. We got tired of this one poster constantly posting "heh heh heh" so we put that in the filter.
 
For those who didn't know, clbuttic mistake is when censorship goes way beyond what is necessary, as in the "ass" in classic getting replaced by "butt", leading to clbuttic.
 
5:31 PM
Another fellow put the name of every last Pokémon into the filter, as well as pokemon itself
 
Zak
@RichardU Now that's just cruel :p
 
I think many of you would agree that the worst possible way you could die would be buttbuttination.
 
Zak
@MaskedMan Over here, the cultural reference point is "The Scunthorpe Effect"
 
@Zak Yeah, that's the "accepted" name for it.
 
@MaskedMan Those can be very funny. People are doing it at the expense of Princeton University right now, that is removing the words "man", "men" and "fathers", leading to people such as myself suggesting that they are suffering from severe humantal illness.
Breast cancer advocates have been going nuts over filtering the word "breast" for years now
@Zak, maybe we can inform the VBA folks at code review about a new thing called "Arrays"
 
Zak
5:36 PM
@RichardU I do. Repeatedly. Unfortunately, no sooner have we educated one person, then another one pops up making many of the same mistakes.
 
Speaking of Scunthorpe, I read somewhere that Nottingham used to be called Snottingham. But then the Normans came along, and they had great difficulty pronouncing the 'S' and it got removed eventually. Naturally, the people of Scunthorpe strongly opposed such change.
 
@Zak, "ActiveWindow.ScrollColumn =" has been the bane of my existence. Every time I see something like that, I know I'm in for a huge cleanup job... Oh, and nested Ifs and nested vlookups as well
 
Zak
@RichardU nested VLookups are nasty.
Why can't people just Index(Match()) like they're supposed to.
 
6:02 PM
@MaskedMan I am ashamed of how long it took me to get that one
 
@Zak I am lucky that the barrier to entry is low or I wouldn't be here :)
(And also to games like Warcraft 3)
 
@Zak VBA is actually a pretty solid language overall, like you said the hate is that barrier to entry is low
that and people use Access as a database (not a frontend) way. too. damn. often
 
@enderland UGH!!!! Dealing with that one now (access as a database in a large company) THE HORROR!
 
Zak
@RichardU Still better than people who think that Excel is a valid database.
 
Access as a frontend? annoying, but fine
@Zak hehe one of my first major projects was fixing this to an "access as frontend, sql server as backend" project
 
6:13 PM
@Zak Cleaning that one up right now.
@enderland Access as front end, Oracle as back-end is fun too
 
the best part is when people basically do everything like a database. with dropdowns and everything
I mean access is a pretty crappy frontend all things considered, but it does do that a lot better than a backend and you can compile it to an exe basically
 
@enderland I'm currently trying to unravel/reengineer a spreadsheet that is trying to be a database using formulas exclusively, and external links to multiple nested vlookups and nested ifs seven layers deep
 
nom nom nom
 
I am not in my happy place
 
I'm glad to not deal with that now, though I've thought about trying to do stuff like that part-time
it's straightforward but time consuming
 
6:17 PM
The level of complexity of this monstrosity, as compared to how simply It could have been designed is staggering
@puzzlepiece87 There's nothing wrong with learning VBA as a way to get into programming, just learn coding practices as well.
 
@RichardU the thing is that VBA is pretty fully functional as a programming language, too
 
@enderland And amazingly powerful if you leverage office properly. Worksheetfunction is a wonderful thing
Attention Mods, I think our Shakespearean, melodramatic troll is back....
-4
Q: What value has status quo?

tamroiI wonder about the value in preserving Workplace status quo. Isn't there harm in it? The question is inspired by my experience with the question here, "Is being casual unprofessional?" My sensible answer was derided and then deleted: "Trousers for men are the dumbest taboo there is. Skirts are wa...

 
it's in the main site but clicking it takes you to meta.
 
@ChristopherEstep notice how familiar the phrasing is?
 
0
Q: What value has status quo?

tamroiI wonder about the value in preserving Workplace status quo. Isn't there harm in it? The question is inspired by my experience with the question here, "Is being casual unprofessional?" My sensible answer was derided and then deleted: "Trousers for men are the dumbest taboo there is. Skirts are wa...

 
6:32 PM
Not sure who it is
never mind, I see it.
 
@ChristopherEstep it got migrated to meta
 
I didn't realize that a link stayed at the source of the migration. 12k and still a noob. :)
 
I've got like 100k rep and have been a moderator for two years and still continuously learn things
 
@RichardU Back? Have we seen this user before?
 
6:53 PM
@DavidK the one who got banned for a year for his Shakespearian type rants, insulting users left and right, and ludicrous questions about how to legally discriminate and things like that
 
7:11 PM
Hmm, apparently I missed that one.
 
7:43 PM
@DavidK I found one of his posts on Meta, compare the style, I think it's the same clown.
-8
Q: What was wrong with this question?

Peter David Carter-PoulsenThe following question got nine downvotes: How best to demonstrate that as a software developer you make the company money Was this the kind of question we want to avoid? If, so why? In the comments they protest that they are in this situation because they are a good person. Is that bad here? ...

and one of his questions
-19
Q: How best to demonstrate that as a software developer you make the company money

Peter David Carter-PoulsenI have been working for a company for some time, but the company is a loss making company overall. I, however, have value and will make the company a lot of money. Let's assume the former is true despite any appearances otherwise. I am a Web Developer and I have skills in HTML, CSS and Javascript...

 
8:09 PM
Hmm, I do see some similarities
 
@Lilienthal We were talking about World-Building and What If, but we clearly should have been talking about Pets. pets.stackexchange.com/questions/2725/…
That's the 5th highest rated cats question (yes, I am bored, why do you ask) and it is super duper dumb
 

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