The Water Cooler - 2015-09-15

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12:22 AM

7

Q: Is it appropriate to make notes when being interviewed?

In the past when I've been interviewed, I often find myself trying to make 'mental notes' about potential questions or things I should mention. I usually bring two copies of my CV with me, but would it be appropriate to have a small notebook (like a moleskin) and a pen and jot notes. Jotting ...

12:35 AM

5

Q: Note taking during Interview

During an interview, its important to show one's enthusiasm and interest in the job applied for. Taking brief notes in an interview shows the candidate is focused, and engaged and provides material valuable for post interview follow up message. Referring to specific points made in the interview t...

or that one, I guess back in the day I answered dups :P

8 hours later…

8:50 AM

@enderland I searched for dupes, but the OP is asking about bringing his notes in to the interview, not about making them during it.

2 hours later…

10:57 AM

0

A: How to effectively manage team members when they are your friends?

What you should realise is that generally speaking managers cannot be friends with the people they manage. They can and arguably should be friendly, but the manager-employee dynamic is potentially lethal to friendships and frankly speaking they cannot be combined. This is because no matter how ...

This may be my Magnum Opus :)

OP comments to say thanks aren't really what comments are for but it's very rewarding to know that you helped someone out with something that can have such a big impact.

3 hours later…

2:24 PM

0

Q: Close reason for writing help

We routinely get questions asking for help in writing letters, applications or resumes. While there is a custom off-topic reason related to reviewing resumes, this is not reflected in the available options in the close menu. I'm assuming that this comment explaining that SE only allows 3 custom c...

discussion close-reasons offtopic

2:35 PM

@enderland It happens we have thousands of questions sometimes its easier to answer the dup than find the question it is a dup of to close it

I'm looking to spend points on downvotes, anyone want to point me in that direction? Oh yeah, I could post a bounty too. thoughts?

Should I mention bad answers here for your collective scrutiny?

0

A: Should questions related to, but not about, the workplace be on topic?

This question is basically the same as asking "When I am at work I need to adjust my make up during the day. What are the best business appropriate colors to match my skin tone?" It is tangential to the workplace but it is not about the workplace or navigating it. Sure people need to put on ma...

@AaronHall Thats my favorite use of chat

2:53 PM

Feel free to scrutinize this one: workplace.stackexchange.com/a/41165/12321

3:07 PM

@AaronHall workplace.stackexchange.com/…

@Lilienthal I think the OP saying thanks this helps provides transient information that the question provided value to the OP.

-7

A: A co-worker secretly takes photos of me at work

It is quite likely, perhaps more likelier than anything else, that this woman is madly in love with you. And you've taken it the wrong way. Consult this woman in private, and initiate a lovely conversation in which a romantic bond between two homosapiens would gain an ardent formation, the two ho...

Why did this not get deleted out right?

@Chad we moderators don't do meaningful moderation on questions we answer...

@enderland This seems like an obvious place to make an exception to that rule.

Is it really that bad?

I think so

the answer is at best satire and reads mocking...

but either way makes no attempt at a serious answer... And at SE We hate FUN!

3:51 PM

0

Q: Should we edit an off-topic question so much that it is no longer relevant to the asker?

This question (Is my future mentor "harassing" me?) led to a lot of discussion in comments, chat and meta about whether it is on-topic. Its status also changed between on-topic, off-topic and undecided with every additional information provided by asker, until it was (eventually?) closed as off-t...

discussion on-topic-definition editing

4:09 PM

If you guys decide you want a cv-pls room, may I suggest the title: "Coffee is for Closers."

@AaronHall That seems unnecessarily aggressive, unless I'm missing another reference here. :)

Put that coffee down!

:D

@AaronHall programmers has a good one

but they have a deluge of off topic and not even remotely ok questions that workplace doesn't get

4:24 PM

When I got to NYC, I was trying to make some money, I decided I'd see if the land was really flowing with milk and honey as it may or may not be. I registered my insurance license with - oh, who were they, looks up National Income (what kinda name is that?) and offered to go pitch for them. I studied their pitch, they gave what they promised were fresh leads, and the leads they gave me had already been picked over by the top producers of the branch.

I pitched a lot of other people, but my rule was no people I already knew socially. No takers.

So I figured NYC was no different from anywhere else.

at least on the low end.

@AaronHall I feel like I'm missing context for this

Yeah, I had been a financial advisor at Ameriprise and Merrill Lynch in a small town, then I did my MBA and moved to NYC. I went to the low end because I knew they wouldn't mind me having a private investment advisor service. I knew they'd want me to try to sell my clients, but I insisted on keeping the business separate.

I don't know if that's why they gave me bad leads.

They probably give everyone bad leads.

Strange thing happened today, project manager called and asked the reason why I am leaving. I told them they I already had this conversation with the HR, I had a better opportunity so I am leaving. They were like, where are you going, I said company C, and they are like 'better'? According to them they didn't feel it was better, assured me the thing happened to me in the past won't happen again, and promised a better future and asked to reconsider.

Combine that with the link Lilienthal posted, that should provide enough context.

"I said company C" you mean you said, "I'm keeping that to myself for now." right?

no, I told them the name of the company

omg, was that the wrong thing to do?

4:35 PM

You don't gain anything from it.

Trevor Archibald

It's not necessarily wrong, but it's not information they really need

Well, the more details you give them, the more likely they are to think they can change your mind.

they said, so and so person came to us from there, you can really talk to them and then take you decision.

Well I hope you're moving for more money and more responsibility, right?

yes, both of them

4:37 PM

Or at least lateral growth that will give you more opportunities?

I also told them its about learning for me, so they assured growth here, told me that the project I am now has been bought, paperwork is ongoing and there will be 3 years of support.

ok, so if you're comfortable leading a bidding war, offer to have them beat the offers, otherwise, tidy up, link up, and go.

Trevor Archibald

Did you give your current company the opportunity to match the salary increase or promotion?

They didn't talk about money

neither promotion, I was in a different project just two days before I resigned, I just came into this one now, which I guess has similar responsibilities to the one I will have in the new company.

They'll never bring it up on their own, unless they're fumbling and already have a budget or are desperate to keep you.

Trevor Archibald

4:41 PM

Yep. If you like working there, it's in your interest to tell them "I got an offer for this much, doing this kind of work (company name not required), but I like working here, would you match this salary and get me these responsibilities?"

Perhaps slightly more elegantly phrased.

But if you just want to leave, ignore them and go when your notice period is up.

I think they have tried hiring a replacement for this project for the past two months after a senior engineer left which they havent been able to fill, so they can't afford to lose another person too, that's why they asked. Otherwise these people don't give a rats fart about it.

Unless they're willing to give you a contract beating the other offer, you're better off cleaning out your desk.

Trevor Archibald

So they're just playing games with you.

And by contract, I mean legally enforceable, show your lawyer before making a decision, contract.

responsibilities would be same, although I will get to learn more since the new company has a project that is currently running and people use it. The only thing I will miss is my friends here :(

in the country where I live, these things usually don't go to a lawyer generally...

4:46 PM

Friendship is nice. Rapport with coworkers is nice. Growing your career is probably the better choice.

which country are you in?

Trevor Archibald

May I paraphrase Tom Haverford? "[Friendship? Friendship] fades. But things? Things are forever."

I am from India

what does that mean? things are forever?

Trevor Archibald

It's a joke. "Things" in this context are material possessions, money, etc.

It's materialism is better than friends value statement (and a joke). I think you can make friends at your new job, though.

Trevor Archibald

Basically I'm agreeing with Aaron. It's nice to have friends where you work, and seeing them less will suck (though there's no reason you can't hang out with them on occasion anyway.) But that's not a good enough reason to pass up a better opportunity with better pay.

4:50 PM

oh ok, but friendship is very important, especially in a workplace, I remember the first three months here, without friends, I get scared from that loneliness.

Make friends outside of work.

easier said than done

You gotta be a friend to have friends. It takes effort. But people at work have to be with you, so I wouldn't consider friendliness on their part to be a sign that they are "friends" of any meaningful depth.

Trevor Archibald

What you value in your career is obviously up to you. But if the personal relationships are what you value most in your career, your development is going to slow. Friends are important, but I wouldn't look to your job as the primary source for them.

What I have thought of saying to them - Maybe if we had this conversation 10 days ago, I wouldn't even had resigned, but now as I have given my word to them, It would be very wrong to decline them, I am sorry it had to be this way.

4:56 PM

blog.stackoverflow.com/2015/09/…

I agree both of your points on friendship.

@user1502 Don't say that. It just encourages them to try to get you to change your mind.

Don't give them false hope of doing so.

but isn't that a clean No?

because they didn't show much importance towards me before I resigned...

You can state that you have given your word and your mind is made up. Don't keep talking though.

Or I can say, If you had given me this project a lot earlier ...

Ok

5:00 PM

No, no "if you did x" or anything like that.

Trevor Archibald

There's no need to talk about the what-ifs. Those hypotheticals didn't happen, all you need to say is "I've made up my mind."

Right :)

Link up with them on professional networks and keep in touch with them, as they obviously see value in you.

Trevor Archibald

That's just good practice for anything of a similar nature. A break-up, leaving a job, etc. Unless you're prompted to give them that sort of information (e.g. in an exit interview), it's not really doing much good to anyone.

Yep, clean answers are alway better and to the point is the best way to do it.

5:04 PM

Approach them from the perspective that they could be valuable contacts in the future, and you want them to think well of you. No one can ever fault you for leaving one position for another offering more responsibility and money.

but I am also leaving because of improper management here, and they know it, they acknowledged it today. So should I say anything about the future thing, or just be short and keep quiet?

Yeah, sounds like they know it, you've already communicated it, why would you bring it up again?

because I want to be friends with them, keep an option open for work.

you mean talking about the future? I wouldn't discuss it further than "let's keep in touch."

ok, that just sounds correct.

5:26 PM

user image

user image

Also relevant ^^^

6:27 PM

@user1502 are you in india?

relationships matter more there, which is why I'm asking :)

That user said they were in in India.

@enderland why do you suppose is that the case?

@AaronHall as cultures, India tends to care a lot more about the relational aspects of... everything than Americans

The individualism vs collectivism dimension?

Yeah, taht's part of it

In general I think Indians will care more about you as a person

So that might make us more sensitive to the asker's concerns, but from my perspective, I don't think that changes the net resulting advice. The economics of the situation would seem to work out the same either way. If one gets more utility from friendships, one is in a stronger negotiating position when one doesn't rely on the workplace to provide those friendships.

6:55 PM

Mmm... that's deep.

7:11 PM

@AaronHall I work with a team of all non-Americans, it's interesting, like when people are sick/ill people care a lot more than my American colleagues previously

here it's like, "ok you're back, great hope you feel better here's more work"

Just because I don't buy you flowers doesn't mean I don't not care. :)

7:38 PM

mails enderland chicken noodle soup

7:59 PM

:P

I had that for lunch yesterday

now everything makes sense

8:28 PM

Then I guess everything's wrapped up in a neat little package!

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