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10:36 AM
@enderland nice joke, i discounted it immediately when i saw you posted it though! Until then it was something i could see someone doing easily
 
 
2 hours later…
12:22 PM
@RhysW Sadly the I do not want a raise and am not going to get a raise, what do I do? Question appears real.
 
1:03 PM
@Carson63000 was that deliberate? 'Slapping' ... 'Greatest Hits'...? :D — RhysW 3 hours ago
LMaO
 
 
1 hour later…
2:24 PM
is it too early to suggest that we add a questions should be assumed to have and implied with out quitting or getting fired caviat to them?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:39 PM
Please slap your coworkers before asking questions to see if that solves your problem
2
 
@Enderland - RE: workplace.stackexchange.com/a/10542/16 Are you sure the problem is not that the OP did not just quit his job. That seems to be the 90+ vote concensus
 
Hi All
Its bizzare that my question was closed as not constructive :-(
I do not see why a question is not good enough if it solicits opinion/debate. For questions related to workplace there cannot be proven facts to answer them IMO.
 
4:08 PM
@R11G which question
@R11G You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face. Chatty, open-ended questions diminish the usefulness of our site
If you are talking about:
-2
Q: I got my FIRST appraisal in my life. Have a lot going on my mind.How should I feel about it?

R11GThis is my first company where I am working straight out of college. I got an appraisal - apparently the first in my career. Its quite decent. Also, my room-mate got a slightly higher than me with the same performance rating as me. I have a lot going on in my mind. Am I not good enough? Why I am...

There really is no question there. It is a statement. You ask how you should feel about it but that really is not anything we can tell you.
you feel how you feel
I hate reviews because they are never you are perfect and anything less than exceeds expectations is a failure to me.
But meets is kind of the default I do not have anything wrong and you have not really done anything that blows me away. You are doing fine.
 
@Chad har har har.
 
4:33 PM
@Chad My point is a guy who has just started working and got his first appraisal (as mentioned) - how he should view it keeping in mind that there are so many aberrations going around in the workplace (i.e people getting different even though they have the same ratings). I feel there is surely a way to answer this.
Apart from this, I respect the site's norms and I myself use it a lott. But I can't see how every question related to workplace will not be open-ended. Won't filtering these questions reduce the usefulness of our site ?
 
Yours is not so much open ended as there is no question we can give you.
 
@R11G this is a really good resource about subjective questions
 
okay @end
 
If the question was savable we would edit it. I just do not know what question you are wanting to ask. We can not tell you how to feel. Your review said you did what you were supposed to. What is it you want to know
 
How should I take the situation keeping all things in mind? I didn't know then if I should feel happy/sad about it.
 
4:47 PM
@R11G I dont see any reason to be either.
He said you did your job. That is what you were there too do.
 
@chad I would have to be a saint not to feel either :-D
 
The thing is, you are asking "how should I feel" at the core question
I can't answer that
 
Some Constructive questions you could ask: How can I use my review to improve the results next year? On my review my mgr said I needed to improve _____ how can I do that?
 
because that is 100% dependent on your value system, on how you view the world, and how accurate you feel the rating is
there is NO answer I can give you which says anything remotely generalizable
are you simply jealous of your roommate?
are you discontent? I have no idea
 
mhmm. I see your point
nope I am not !
 
4:51 PM
You should feel like slapping @enderland
 
@R11G It's just impossible to definitively (or even speculatively, really) answer that
 
@enderland I felt some of the answers were answering it to some extent. I was finding them a bit useful.
 
For what it's worth I do understand where you are coming from
we spend years if not decades learning to base our abilities off externallly created systems (grades, etc)
and then, eventually, that becomes one or two times... a year
after 10+ times a week
 
exactly.
 
and so it's part of our nature, especially people in their 20s, to simply want feedback
 
4:56 PM
To be honest, I've been reading a lot of stuff recently and trying to come to terms to life outside school :-) I knew it would be so different but I just cannot seem to accept it.
 
A lot of this answer might be interesting to you
talking about creating an internship, but a lot of the "how to manage" points are applicable for early career people too
as well as this answer (it's long, btw :)
 
cool
 
is the company you work for small? or does it have a formal mentorship type program?
 
Its big ;-)
Not a formal mentorship type program.
It falls upon the manager to be a sort of career guide. Thats what the impression I have had so far
 
I would strongly suggest trying to find someone to be your mentor in some sort of role (other than your boss)
someone you can have a completely honest and confidential discussion about these sorts of things
 
5:02 PM
I was also thinking of this. Any suggestions how do i go about this? Surely asking the boss for this is a bad idea.
 
realistically, whether you should be happy/sad about that rating and how to receive it would be much better answered by someone you can talk with directly and on an ongoing process
I'd talk with your HR department, probably? I'm not sure. My company has a formalized process for this
 
um.. doesn't appeal to me. As it would be construed as "discontent" - which I am not. I just do not know what to make of this.
The more I think of this, the more I get afraid if Im turning money-minded.
#damn
 
@R11G what doesn't appeal to you?
 
talking to HR
 
(you might now see why this question was hard to answer... :)
 
5:05 PM
haha. yeah :-)
 
finding someone who can be your "mentor" on these sorts of things is super important in my opinino
 
Yes. I got the gist.
 
whether in your company, through your church, through some organization in your spare time, whatever it might be
 
umm.. will it harm me If i do not have one ? Are there not any self-made men who succeed ?
 
well, not necessarily
but sometimes years or decades of experience can be really useful :-)
 
5:08 PM
agree !
 
Just that I do not want to end up being mediocre and be satisfied with whatever life gives me.
one of the easiest ways to do this sort of thing is find people who have gone through a lot more of life than we have
 
hmm..
Like Im learning that in the REAL WORLD people do not care much about you. They are busy with their own stuff.
I'll have to quickly learn and start investing in business relationships.
 
well I think people care about you, but you are not paying them to care about you in the way you do during school
so it's a little different
 
This is interesting !
 
(this also varies a ton by people and company I think, I've had really good luck in finding people who DO care about me as a person, and I partially based my career path and company off this)
 
5:17 PM
I've always been hearing that in real world people do not care about you.
What you said is surely - worth a thought.
 
well we spend our lives being... coddled in school (you are from USA right?)
 
nope.
 
oh hah
I'm not as familiar with educational systems elsewhere so much
but in the USA there is a lot of "you are awesome!" and "you are a winner!"
 
I did have many profs who did their Ph.ds from the US. And they were at max 10-15yrs older. A few of them were really awesome ! cared about you. And a few of them were - (best not said).
Overall, I agree school was over-protective.
 
where are you located?
 
5:21 PM
India
 
not going to lie, your english is considerably better than nearly all Indians i've ever interacted with ;)
 
haha. thanks!
a lot of people have told me that :-)
 
you spend a lot of time on forums/etc when you were younger?
 
um..yeah a bit.
why ?
 
idk, I guess I'd say your style of writing is one from spending lots of time online :P
(knowing you are not growing up in USA/britian)
maybe I'm wrong haha
I have worked with a few people from India in past years
and I don't really see a lot of the same stylistic things in how you type ;)
 
5:27 PM
haha. yes I have been spending a lot of time online in the past 4-5 years.
maybe its a bit different.
 
keep in mind a lot of what I said is totally from a USA/western europe based perspective
 
yes. but I feel it applies to me as well.
One has to get a mentor to fast-forward his progress.
Its not much different.
We are not talking about something society centric here.
 
@R11G I see it as more "I don't know a lot" and people older tend to have a lot more expereince
not necessarily always
but people with that eperience can often REALLY help give wisdom/advice in situatinos
 
I totally agree !
more often than not it helps/
I sometimes miss school so much :(
as im learning so much about life
 
:)
both have benefits
 
5:36 PM
yeah. and we can't avoid either phase
 
I'm working fulltmie now and finishing my thesis (1.5 weeks)
and let me tell ya, I'm really excited to defend and be done :)
 
great !!
is it Ph.D or Masters?
 
just masters
 
cooool !
 
I'm ready to move onto the next stages of life
I mean, i've been working for quite a few years
but man will it be nice to be done wtih school
and move onto that phase of life
 
5:38 PM
Thats so good to hear :-)
Don't mind me asking..
Is it from a Ivy league school ?
 
lol no :D
 
:D
okay
 
@enderland Wassamatta U>
 
Those schools have the BEST educational environment in the world. Such a great place to interact with the best minds and bounce off your ideas.
 
?
 
5:41 PM
@Chad english... do you speak it?
@R11G my graduate environmetn was pretty unique as I got a TON of that
 
@enderland You make me feel old
 
@enderland lucky you
 
@Chad go slap your boss. that'll make you feel younger I'm sure ;)
 
She would probably kick my butt :p
 
@R11G indeed. my graduate research was pretty unique I think. we had by far the best work environment on campus
 
5:43 PM
@enderland mhm. nice
 
also, everyone I'm around - college town -makes ME feel old
 
@Chad wow. hahahahah
 
The alma matter of Rocky and Bullwinkle
 
hey.. have you guys been following the #PyCon tweet controversy ?
 
5:45 PM
I'm basically illiterate for tv types of stuff
 
@enderland You need more american culture
 
@Chad I really do. my girlfriend complains all the time "you don't know who (insert any actor/actress name here) is!?"
 
@enderland means nothing... women care about stupid crap... just smile and nod
 
@Chad lol
 
@Chad ;)
@R11G I've not, no
 
5:48 PM
And the trick to avoiding have to watch chick flicks is just say I know I cant believe they die in the end... cause 75% of them the do
 
@Chad eh I don't really overly mind chick flicks, so long as they are good
...
oh.
guess that's most of them I mind :)
 
... talk to him face to face on this. Email is incredibly passive aggressive. — enderland 21 hours ago
^^^ I agree.
 
ok.
In This Python conference, a woman overhears two guys sitting behind cracking forks/dongle jokes with sexual undertones. She takes a picture of them and tweets. The two guys get fired and later on that woman is also fired by her company.
 
@JimG. Please stop bumping old questions with chatty comments
 
@R11G lol awesome
 
5:53 PM
@enderland Now suddenly everyone is complaining how misogynist the tech community is :P
knock ! knock !
 
ok...
corporations...
suck
 
are you referring to my earlier comment ?
 
No... I am trying to transfer to a position in my parent company... this department DESPERATELY wants me, but....
they couldn't interview me for months because the directors of the terrible departments put a political hold on internal transfers to stop their brain drains to other groups
then...
I go on the interview... they tell me it is a formality and that I am the guy they REALLY want
 
you should probably just quit
I've heard that's the response to all workplace problems
;)
 
but then instead of getting a call for an offer I get a call from an HR drone saying that because I recently had a 3% merit raise that I can't negotiate for a higher salary
but I can laterally move if I want
3%
merit
thats not even inflation anymore
 
6:04 PM
could you... quit and then get hired again? :)
 
whats the inflation in the US?
#justasking
 
@enderland then I lose my seniority, my PTO days, all of the unvested money in my 401k
I need 3 more years seriority to keep the unvested money
 
@maple_shaft oh. that's lame
 
yeah
 
how many do you need total?
that seems high
I'm vested at 3 years
 
6:06 PM
5
 
I geuss I'll be vested soon too. time goes by realllllly feast
@R11G another huge difference of working vs school :P
 
I am sending an email to the manager asking her what can be done because if they have to start looking again they will lose months
 
@enderland true that !
 
@maple_shaft I think most managers who go on a missino get their way ;)
 
@maple_shaft Oh geez!
 
6:09 PM
@enderland This is the most blatantly political organization I have ever witnesses so that isn't surprising, but it is interesting that directors and most middle managers get wiped out every two years or so...
the people on the ground never get touched
 
I can't believe I'll have to deal with such sort of stuff in the time to come. #facepalm
 
seriously, the guys on the ground could come to work with an assault rifle, snorting blow like from Scarface and they still probably wouldn't get fired
they pay better than anybody else in town though
 
@maple_shaft But I think that this goes to show that, for many reasons, it's much easier to earn more money at another company than it is to earn a merit increase or a promotion.
 
The other day I was thinking why all organizations become political hotbed. The simple answer I could come up was - where there are people involved, there will be politics. cc/- @maple_shaft
 
@JimG. Not in Pittsburgh
these guys are the best you can do for money
in IT
Good money... obscene job security... great benefits
the trifecta of awesome
 
6:12 PM
heh
 
unless of course you are a manager or a director, then you have political power for a couple years until you are axed in the next reorganization
then all the IT people move offices again and you have a new boss
same as the old boss
YEAAAAAAAAHHH!!
 
@maple_shaft how do you manage the politics? do you also play along ?
 
programmers loathe office politics lol
 
@R11G Play multiple sides... never fully ingratiate yourself to any one person
people try to build armies
 
I would rather join main-stream politics then ;)
 
6:15 PM
don't become a foot soldier or if you do then make sure that you become a pawn for more than one person
once you are labeled as "one of his/her guys" then you could be targeted
 
and don't jump on board with someone until you know they aren't the office paraiah ;)
 
hey...don't scare me :P
we are there to code
 
@R11G Just stay aware... don't let your emotions cloud your judgement... don't take things personally when you work hard on something and it is shot down... remind yourself that you are there to take orders and make money... don't get emotionally vested in the bigger picture
also don't have high expectations of people...
nearly everybody will let you down if you expect something from them
 
wait people suck?
slap them.... ALL OF THEM
 
@maple_shaft hmm :-|
@enderland see.. his theory is totally opposite of yours
 
6:21 PM
in totally unrelated news. thinking of buying a NICE projector for the in-home theater :)
 
@maple_shaft OK - So in other words, even in consideration of this foolishness with HR, if you were to leave, you couldn't do any better?
@maple_shaft Just curious - Do you work for a bank or financial company?
 
@JimG. Healthcare giant
 
@maple_shaft And if so, are Penguins and Steelers tickets easy to come by?
@maple_shaft Ah. I see.
 
@JimG. Steelers tickets are never easy to come by, even for C-level
 
@maple_shaft Oh.
 
6:22 PM
@enderland coool !
 
The Pirates on the other hand, they can't give those tickets away ;-)
I get free pirates tickets all the time, good seats too, right behind home plate
 
@maple_shaft Which, IMO, is a shame for two reasons: 1) When Jim Leyland was the manager, they were a decent team. 2) It looks like they have a beautiful park.
 
@JimG. It is the best park I have ever been too. Fenway is garbage in comparison
 
@maple_shaft Bingo!!!! I am from Boston and it is a dump.
 
They are a farm team... we have come to accept this as a city
until salary caps are in place this will never change
 
6:25 PM
is anyone of you a football/soccer fan ? :-)
 
@maple_shaft 1000% agree. And this is why the NFL is king.
 
 
@R11G Except LA Galaxy fans. ;)
 
@JimG. we did get really close to .500 record last season... I was almost proud ;-)
 
@JimG. haha :-D
 
6:26 PM
@maple_shaft You might be surprised. Even as a Red Sox fan, I hate the fact that the Royals and Pirates can't compete. I think it cheapens MLB.
 
I've been a Twins fan for a looong time. Don't complaina bout teams with no budget not being able to do well ;)
 
@maple_shaft And it's such a shame because baseball is a terrific sport, IMO.
 
Boston Red Sox owners also own Liverpool. Wonder if anyone knows!
 
@R11G Sure. In fact conspiracy theorists surmise that John Henry is paying too much attention to Liverpool these days.
 
@JimG. Oh come on ! He should invest more in Liverpool. He is not giving enough funds for the transfer window.
 
6:28 PM
@R11G Oh really?
 
@JimG. I feel so. They are being very cautious with the money.
I do not follow red sox's progress though
 
@R11G Well I've heard that John Henry's investments have really gone south recently.
 
@R11G 5 officially but 14 really
 
@JimG. you mean the footballing investments?
 
6:31 PM
hmm..
actually, the whole soccer world dynamics have changed since the Sheikhs have started taking over clubs. They have immense money and they buy players on whims.
Compared to that John Henry is quite frugal with his money..which is right too in a way.
 
@R11G Oh wow.
@R11G Was just thinking about the ramifications if sheiks bought MLB teams.
 
@JimG. Im sure someone would have a eye on them if it was possible
 
Jesus... this company just quoted my boss $38/hr for development to complete unfinished work in a Java web app that I had wrote
you know that maybe 1/3 of that goes to actual labor
 
@maple_shaft poor souls coding away for cheap
 
they are going to be able to pay a JEE software engineer like $12/hr to complete my web app?!
what the hell kind of sweat shop are they running?
 
6:47 PM
awww I don't have 2 questions at the top of the "popular questinos" list anymore since the april fools one got closed :(
 
@maple_shaft Oh wow.
@maple_shaft D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L
@maple_shaft ...aanndd right on time...
0
Q: How do you know if you're an underpaid developer?

sherm8nI have been having a lot of discussions with developers on being paid fairly. I'm curious how do you define being underpaid? And what do you do to fix that problem? This is the article that caused all the discussions - http://blog.goodsense.io/2013/04/02/are-you-an-underpaid-developer

 
7:05 PM
@JimG. Life depresses me. you can work hard at something your whole life just so you have a modest standard of living only to find that the anxiety inducing soul crushing downward push on labor costs from the globalized market make you a defunct relic of a by gone era
$12/hr
Capitalism at its absolute finest
Corporations have money to pay more, so it isn't even about money. it is about control through wage slavery
that is what it has always been about. Skilled craftsmen who can set their own price are the bane of the wealthy
that is what it has always been about
control
how else do you control something by taking a skilled trade and turning it into a commodity
everything must be a commodity... everything must have a set anticipated price
even people
 
that's a bit cynical :P
 
@enderland I am in a bit of mid career crisis right now
forgive me
 
7:23 PM
:-)
 
 
1 hour later…
8:50 PM
@maple_shaft you surrender your soul by allowing yourself to be chained to one place. You can get 3 weeks pto and more pay elsewhere. Though you may have to move for it. I find that consultants generally get treated better than employees.
 

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