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vzn
vzn
6:37 PM
@ryan what is it that you think was "incorrect"? maybe you would like to define what is meant by falling on sword or flameout since youre so sure neither happened? plz dont accuse me of misrepresenting anything based on short chat msgs on the subj. ofc am aware Gilles cares very much about the issue.
66
Q: Summing up the main issues (The Story So Far)

aparente001Could we have a neutral summing up of the issues (without any editorializing)? I will attempt to do so in an answer, big picture style. Or you could think of this as "The Story So Far" for those who came in in the middle, or who are confused about what the heck just happened to Stack Exchange. ...

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ryan
ryan
7:07 PM
@vzn The incorrect part being Monica "falling on her sword". This implies that she willing took the action the end her status as moderator, when this was not the case. She was fired, as was stated in the link you shared. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fall_on_one%27s_sword#Verb
 
 
2 hours later…
vzn
vzn
9:10 PM
@ryan "falling on ones sword" is a very old expression. maybe you should look up the etymology before passing judgement. admittedly, maybe more applicable to gilles than monica for the reason you point out. however, have you read this?
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Q: Stack Overflow Inc., sinat chinam, and the goat for Azazel

Monica CellioOn Friday, half an hour before Shabbat and two days before Rosh Hashana, Stack Overflow Inc. suddenly revoked my moderator status on all sites where I had it. I found this out while handling flags, when I suddenly got notifications for Marshal and Deputy badges (which moderators are ineligible t...

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Evil
Evil
"falling on ones sword" Refers to the practice of some Roman military leaders, who would commit suicide following a devastating defeat by literally falling on the point of their own swords.
 
vzn
vzn
@Evil ok, thx you. so a ~2K yr old expr. however, note the expr itself literally does not imply its intentional. in fact looking up the word fall has all the connotations of unintentional.
 
Evil
Evil
9:26 PM
I have no clear picture of what happened so I have not written anything on the topic. I wanted to share my best with Gilles and I am very sorry of what happened, it is sad that he felt betrayed (my own interpretation of mistrust, my words not really accurate, couldn't find better right now) and see it as tough lifechanging decision. Attitude and views are admirable. I am a big fan of answers here and Unix, these are stellar posts, examples what one could wish for and more.
 
Evil
Evil
9:39 PM
The meta post was hijacked into uninformed opinions, here it seems that on the smaller scale there are is quite same course of action. Personally, I think that asking Gilles about what happened, trying to change mind or putting any pressure is just uncompassionate and improper. The same states for any reminder or forced recall of sad events.
 
vzn
vzn
9:53 PM
@Evil while not disagreeing with what youve written, it would seem that mod(s) on occasion show a lot of "uncompassion". am still marvelling at the symmetry of all this. the word karma comes to mind.
 
Evil
Evil
@vzn While I disagree with the statement "mods on occasion show a lot of "uncompassion", I do not think that this is the place and time for such comparison.
 
vzn
vzn
10:18 PM
@Evil SE is going thru a major reevaluation/ introspection very high up the chain of command. think they should think about how closely this symmetry follows the way users get suspended sometimes on hair trigger/ unilateral moments by mods, have witnessed more than a few over the years... hmmm, wonder how many users gilles + monica have suspended over the years. is every one situation without any extinuating circumstances whatsoever? yes, its hard to look in the mirror sometimes...
 
Evil
Evil
@vzn I totally distance myself from suspension/firing as I do not know the details and cirumstances, but if I knew I still wouldn't jump into conclusions, because it was not mine experience to start with and accusations, because it sounds to me like an expression "they suffer the same fate", which sounds nasty at the moment. I admit, my English is not perfect, but afaik it suffices to understand verbs and adjectives...
Giving expressions that might be ambiguous repeatedly and denying it every time, but still repeating it is heating up discussion every time. People love to get closure, but unfortunately this is not how the World works.
 
vzn
vzn
10:36 PM
@Evil am all in favor of not jumping to conclusions and yet think that has a lot to do with the massive drama playing out. aka overreaction by many different sides. but maybe this overreaction tends to show up in SE dynamics lots over the years. have seen it 1st hand more than a few times. its worth taking a step back and reevaluating why this ("anti-")pattern keeps playing out.
 
 
1 hour later…
Evil
Evil
11:53 PM
To be clear, by "meta" I mean general meta, not our CS meta.
 

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