Standards & Conventions

CodeX

16:20

Hello @nhgrif

nhgrif

room topic changed to Standards & Conventions: // TODO: Add room description (no tags)

CodeX

@nhgrif Am i welcome here?

nhgrif

Sure.

CodeX

Thankyou

nhgrif

This will likely be the only room I participate in from now on.

CodeX

16:21

Is this strictly about Standards and Conventions?

I code in PHP.. :/

nhgrif

No, it's not strictly about Standards & Conventions.

This isn't a dictatorship.

I felt that "Standards & Conventions" was within the theme of Code Review, that's all.

Mast

Don't take this the wrong way, but how does this room differ from the Nth?

nhgrif

But conversation should generally be about programming

@Mast Room owners aren't a) teenagers who were the cause of rolfl's hissy-fit or b) anyone officially associated with Code Review (moderators)

It's an important distinction for me, after today.

CodeX

Room Description: Laid back chat about programming in general

@nhgrif What languages do you code / understand

Mast

@nhgrif The room owners of the Nth are 200 and Jamal

nhgrif

16:25

Yes. Site moderators, officially associated with Code Review.

Mast

But not teenagers.

nhgrif

@CodeX I work as a professional iOS developer, so Objective-C & Swift. I've also worked as a .NET developer writing C#, VB.NET, Powershell, and MS-SQL. I also can read understand lots of other languages like C, C++, Java, etc.

@Mast There were two groups of people I don't want to be owners.

It's good to see the teenagers are no longer owners.

But people officially associated with Code Review are still owners there.

Mast

Allright, solid argument.

nhgrif

This isn't the place to discuss meta issues about the site anyway. Those discussions will be pointed toward the 2nd monitor.

Mast

I'm currently writing a meta about the idle-chatter in the 2nd and how the community thinks about it.

nhgrif

16:29

I'm not interested in the 2nd Monitor any more.

CodeX

Yeah 2nd monitor chat belongs in the 2nd monitor chat room

i completely agree

Too many politics

nhgrif

room topic changed to Standards & Conventions: // TODO: Add room description [clean-code,] [programming,] [refactoring]

room topic changed to Standards & Conventions: // TODO: Add room description [clean-code] [programming] [refactoring]

CodeX

"You've been kicked from The Nth Monitor."

Haha some people just can't handle the truth

nhgrif

I don't know what you were kicked for, but please don't get in trouble trying to spamvertise this room.

CodeX

I would never do anything to jeopardise your room @nhgrif dont worry

I was kicked for discussion not pertaining to that of the "group"

nhgrif

16:42

If you are looking for a job, the company I work for is hiring developers"

careers.stackoverflow.com/company/metova

CodeX

Wow i wish i knew how to code in C

I code in PHP HTML CSS Javascript jQuery

nhgrif

Since you seem to be a web-based coder, they are hiring Ruby-on-Rails devs, I think.

Mast

@CodeX What did you do?

CodeX

@Mast Who knows.. I guess opinions and discussions above 10db are not allowed

Mast

So, @nhgrif, how did you get started with swift anyway?

nhgrif

16:53

Started using it after Apple announced it basically.

Having already known ObjC was a big help. The libraries are the same.

Mast

Did you start using it professionally and became an enthusiast later, or was it the other way around?

nhgrif

I was using ObjC professionally when swift came out

Hang on, lunch time

bazola

@nhgrif you withdrew from the election?

nhgrif

Yes.

If I am a moderator, this chat room has the same problem as the other. Also, as a moderator, I would probably have to be in 2nd Monitor regularly.

CodeX

Do you get paid to be a moderator?

nhgrif

17:07

And I'm really not interested in being in there.

Mast

@CodeX No.

nhgrif

Moderators are not paid.

CodeX

@Mast Then whats the point..

bazola

just surprising, especially since as a moderator you could work to change things to be the way you think they should be

CodeX

Extra work for no money

You cannot change what is set in stone

Mast

17:08

@CodeX You're trolling right?

CodeX

I never troll and thats the truth

nhgrif

I've been part of various online chat communities for like 20 years.

CodeX

Moderators are free workers

Someone is getting paid for this site

Moderators are just a cog in the machine

I wish that wasnt true..

nhgrif

I'm usually okay what rolfl does, but today was one of the worst examples of chat moderation I've seen in a long time, and I don't want to be part of the 2nd monitor.

I will continue to push for change as a community member.

CodeX

@nhgrif I came in at exactly the wrong time

HarryCBurn

17:10

@CodeX Because not everyone has the resources to pay, and not everyone finds it necessary to be paid. Money isn't everything.

Vogel612

@nhgrif I love to hear that, thank you

HarryCBurn

@nhgrif Out of interest, what happened? Am I allowed to know?

(Hey everyone, realized I didn't say hi.)

Vogel612

@HarryCBurn stuff went south in the main chatroom

nhgrif

It's easier that way. I don't have to balance my opinions with the comminuty's opinions if I'm not a mod.

Vogel612

dust didn't setttle yet, soo...

CodeX

17:11

@HarryCBurn Huh..

HarryCBurn

@Vogel612 Ahh. These things happen, sadly :(

Mast

@nhgrif Request for your take on the matter:

9

Q: How much idle chatter do we tolerate in The 2nd Monitor?

Related but not a duplicate: How far off-topic can we get in 'the 2nd monitor'? Today was a complicated day in the history of The 2nd Monitor. On one side there appears to be consensus something went wrong which should be handled. On the other side there appears to be disagreement about how muc...

Vogel612

@HarryCBurn ^^ see there ...

nhgrif

Later, @Mast. I have bills to pay.

HarryCBurn

@Vogel612 Ah, right.

What about rooms like ELL where even the of-topic chat is vastly beneficial?

Vogel612

17:15

@HarryCBurn that's only for the chat here.

HarryCBurn

It really depends on the room, IMO.

Vogel612

in general the policies are maybe a little more lax

exactly, the problem is ... ...

I don't actually know what the problem is exactly

I know what happened but I don't understand it yet..

HarryCBurn

@Vogel612 Ah, right. I forgot ;p

CodeX

@Mast That was bad.. Hes not interested

nhgrif

18:00

Someone should tell the room owners taking unilateral actions that. — nhgrif 14 secs ago

@RubberDuck you're certainly welcome here... I don't intend for this to be a permanent "We hate the 2nd Monitor" club by any means...

room topic changed to Standards & Conventions: // TODO: Add room description [chat-is-magic] [fake-tags] [star-fest]

3

nhgrif

18:36

@Mast So yeah. Sort of both. I did one project at work in Swift, but it wasn't for the app store.

The line between professional and enthusiast for me is sort of blurry.

Mast

18:50

Thanks, been wondering about that for a while.

RubberDuck

19:08

Thanks. I'm kind of just avoiding the on going drama at this point.

Vogel612

@RubberDuck wrong room??

RubberDuck

Nope.

1 hour ago, by nhgrif

@RubberDuck you're certainly welcome here... I don't intend for this to be a permanent "We hate the 2nd Monitor" club by any means...

CodeX

Hi @RubberDuck

RubberDuck

yo

Vogel612

hmm. I must have missed that during the whole drama :)

CodeX

19:10

Whats everyone working on right now?

RubberDuck

this rubberduck-vba.com

nhgrif

I'd like to get past the drama too. But just... Here....

I am working on an iOS app and I am under an NDA...

bazola

this github.com/Cardshifter/Cardshifter

CodeX

@RubberDuck You wrote an IDE?

RubberDuck

No. Just an add-in for it.

Git integration has been my big focus lately.

CodeX

19:13

@nhgrif Need a tester?

@bazola Omg that card shifter game.. I remember watching everyone talk about that in 2nd monitor

nhgrif

There will be a test group soon-ish, I think... but I don't even think I can tell you who to get in touch with to be part of that group.

CodeX

Np

RubberDuck

@CodeX VBA much? I <3 bug reports.

CodeX

I code in PHP ;/

I want to learn a new language thats why i came here today to discuss with you guys but it went terribly wrong

nhgrif

What OS are you on?

CodeX

19:17

Windows 7

are you french @RubberDuck ?

Ive just installed visual studio 2013 the free edition

nhgrif

I'd recommend Ruby-on-Rails, Java, C#, or C++.

CodeX

Im thinking of learning java and/or C#

Where i get stuck is what to do with them

Did you have a starter project?

nhgrif

Java -> Android

Make a calculator app for Android.

Vogel612

@nhgrif I beg to differ

Java > Android

nhgrif

I only mean to say that with Java, you can do Android development.

And then you can come work with me.

CodeX

19:26

It sounds like something that would be fun to learn

Ill go have a read up on it

Android studio incoming

Having had a look at some example code i think this should be fairly straight forward

nhgrif

20:19

updating Xcode...

CodeX

Still installing Android Studio

What SDK do you have?

Im trying it with 8

@nhgrif What version of android?

Sorry What version of android shall i code it for?

KitKat?

nhgrif

I'm not an Android developer at all.

That'd be a question more for like @SimonAndréForsberg

For now, I'd just target Lollipop or whatever the newest version is.

CodeX

Lollipop is 5.1

I can test in the app right?

Building "Calculate" ;)

nhgrif

What do you mean "test"?

It's been a while since I've done anything Android, but usually there's an emulator you can run the app in

Or, if you have an Android device, that.

CodeX

20:38

I have android Studio

Its similar to VS

bazola

you don't have any android devices @CodeX? the emulator runs pretty slow unfortunately, so i do all my testing on device

nhgrif

Yeah. Android emulators run slowly, but they're at least emulators.

iOS simulator is great... but it's a simulator.

bazola

if you have an i7 with 8 gigs ram and it still runs at like 5-10fps, its not a very useful emulator at all

not to mention the multi minute wait for it to start the virtual device

nhgrif

Does that minute wait happen every time you build your app to it or just the first time you launch it?

bazola

just the first time that you launch the actual virtual device

but if you just plug into a regular device, it builds and deploys in like 20 seconds

so much nicer

nhgrif

20:46

Yeah.

CodeX

Im trying Android Studio

Got a build error

Error:(56, 51) error: cannot find symbol variable fullscreen_content

nhgrif

iOS simulator is pretty nice. The problem is that it use's your machine's hardware to the full extent, so you can't do any performance testing on the simulator.

CodeX

I havent defined them yet.. :/

bazola

i think there is an android chat room @CodeX. personally Im doing everything though libGDX, and I'm building with gradle, so its a different experience

nhgrif

I don't know anything about current Android dev, so I can't even begin to help you.

bazola

20:47

@nhgrif i was spoiled by the iOS tools. you don't know how good Instruments is until you don't have it anymore

nhgrif

Yeah. Instruments is too hidden for as good as it is.

CodeX

@bazola Android Studio uses Gradle

bazola

@CodeX if you want to very quickly make games for android/html/iOS/desktop then i would recommend downloading libGDX and going that route, I'm sure its a lot easier than learning how to program for android directly (although I have never tried)

CodeX

@bazola Im just making a simple calculator app to start with

bazola

lots of tutorials and forums and such as well

CodeX

20:52

The emulator loads just like a real Android phone..

Awesome this is actually very fast

Im on a laptop with intel i3 and 8gb ram and the emulator loads fast

bazola

I'm on mac so maybe that is part of the problem

CodeX

CodeX

21:23

This is quite fun

The design view is a bit small though

nhgrif

I hate doing Android design. I don't know if it has changed since I last did it though.

When I did it, there was a visual designer, but it basically always did exactly the opposite of what you wanted.

Even after you took into account the fact that it's probably going to do opposite what you want. So... you end up just manually editing XML files.

bazola

UI stuff eats up a ton of programming time on all of the platforms I've worked with

CodeX

Yeah im having to go in and make edits to the XML file npw

nhgrif

@bazola You haven't worked with UIKit and Xcode Interface Builder though.

bazola

true, but i know i would have to learn auto layout to use those, and I'm sure that would take a chunk of time :)

nhgrif

21:35

You don't have to learn autolayout to do Interface builder... but if you don't you're doing it wrong.

CodeX

22:18

G'night all

Transcript for

Standards & Conventions