Language Overflow

M.A.R.

00:02

@userr2684291 Woot!

AIQ

00:15

How should I answer 'Happy New Year'? - 480K views? holy

@snailcar We are happy that you are happy

bizarre questions

Cardinal

I am so tempted to buy "A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Randolph Quirk et al."

AIQ

the moderator questionnaire has been viewed 480 times - but it has only 7 upvotes. hmmmm ....

@Cardinal how much?

Cardinal

It is pricey :))

It's around 130 bucks, I mean the brand new one.

The used ones are cheaper I suppose!

AIQ

oh not too bad for a reference material

I mean if you are going to use it all the time

but you got any other options or is that the best grammar book?

Cardinal

Yup, that's another issue. I actually got the practical English by Micheal swan in Ebook, but, hmm, the ebook version is not in a great format, though being great for 20 something dollars.

@AIQ I just read the reviews on Amazon, and it seems that I would like the format by which the book presents the material.

AIQ

00:27

how often are these grammar books updated?

I wanted to borrow a grammar book from my university library - they wouldn't let me

said it's reference material you gotta use it here

Cardinal

Hmm, not sure though. This CGEL one is an old book I guess, or the first edition seems to be published at 80s.

@AIQ Yeah, a lot of universities enact this type of rules.

AIQ

In my list are a merriam webster or oxford dictionary, and the chicago manual of style latest edition

it has been a tremendous help

Anonymous

Quirk et al 1985 is indeed slightly dated at this point, but it's a great reference. It's not as theoretically coherent as Huddleston & Pullum 2002 (also often referred to as CGEL) but I think being able to refer to both is great because they both have their own individual strengths and cover points the other doesn't quite.

Anonymous

Along with Quirk et al 1985 is what you might think of as its corpus-based companion volume, the Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English (Biber et al 1999).

AIQ

is there any published after 2015?

Anonymous

00:36

Those three books together form a solid basis for researching English grammar. You can branch off from there into research papers and the like.

Anonymous

@AIQ Well, English Syntax and Argumentation has a fifth edition dated 2018.

Anonymous

It isn't quite the same thing as a reference grammar of English, though.

Anonymous

Reference grammars aren't always what you want, anyway. For a lot of people on this site, I'd recommend Michael Swan's pedagogical grammar, Practical English Usage. But this book is so popular, I think many of the learners it would be appropriate for already have it!

Anonymous

Others might like A Communicative Grammar of English, for a different take on the same sort of information.

Anonymous

@AIQ These books are still good. English grammar changes, but it doesn't change that fast. (At least, it usually doesn't. Once in a while a grammatical change can actually happen quite quickly!)

AIQ

00:47

@snailcar Where do you or your close ones buy books (I mean these books) from?

Local bookstore?

Cardinal

@snailcar Thanks for the notes on the books. I enjoyed reading it.

AIQ

election ends in 19 hours

CowperKettle

02:13

userr2684291

@M.A.R. Ha, busted.

@snailcar Could you give an example of a grammatical change that happened quickly?

Or quite quickly.

CowperKettle

03:41

A dyslexic man walks into a bra

AIQ

03:56

a friend just sent a group message - hawyal doin

took me a few seconds ... I am getting dumber by the day

Anonymous

04:07

@userr2684291 Because X: linguistics.berkeley.edu/~mikkelsen/rehn_thesis.pdf

Anonymous

@AIQ It’s gotten harder over time to come up with a satisfactory answer to that question.

New Meta Question

05:36

1

Q: When would I be able to create a tag? Is there a reputation requirement?

I am wondering when I would be able to make tags. I just asked question on the main site regarding the difference between "may" and "can". Prior, to asking the question I reviewed couple of related questions that have already been asked on the ell. I noticed it is not a bad idea to have tags like...

discussion

Anonymous

07:02

It looks like election turnout will end up around the same as the last two elections.

AIQ

08:08

@snailcar how did you know that?

Anonymous

08:25

It says how many people voted so far on the election page. It’s almost the same number, and the number of people voting per day has dropped greatly – I think almost everyone who will vote has already voted.

Anonymous

So in the remaining hours I would expect possibly fewer than ten more votes.

AIQ

where

I can't

see that

Snailcar, I think only you or certain users can see that

user435118

@snailcar I can’t see it either, is it mod only info?

user435118

Also what time are results usually announced, just after it ends or a bit later?

Anonymous

08:47

Oh, really? I didn’t know that. The other way to see it is by looking at the constituent badge list and counting them.

Anonymous

I think the results are posted by hand, so I would give them just a little time. I’m not entirely sure if it’s been automated but I don’t think so…

Anonymous

But for the number of voters, it’s definitely public information since anyone can check how many badges were awarded for voting during each election.

AIQ

but are users awarded those badges every time they vote?

CowperKettle

Anonymous

09:02

Yeah, you get it once per election.

Anonymous

I have four of them here on ELL.

AIQ

Someone wrote that we are not trusted users because we don't have 20k+ rep.

That should have been a good question for us to answer, if it were only directed at us directly.

Anonymous

Ooh, I really don’t think that’s a good way to interpret the “trusted user” label. Obviously we trust a lot of our users with a lot of capabilities before they reach that particular milestone, and while reaching it is nice and feels good, it’s ultimately a bit arbitrary.

AIQ

09:17

True ...

Snailcar, in some of the previous elections, how did people respond to the questionnaires? I mean were there plenty of followup questions or comments from the community?

Anonymous

They’re all on meta, so you can see them yourself.

AIQ

oh yes, I did look at them but didn't pay attention, I will have a look. Sorry for the bad question

CowperKettle

10:58

Fivesideddice

11:21

I wonder if it’s ironic or not.

M.A.R.

It has a lot of magnesium

ELLection ends in 8 hours

I dunno which movie line I should pick

@ColleenV Oh! Congrats! Probably

ColleenV

@snailcar Catija said we had more eligible voters this year, so that's a little disappointing.

@M.A.R. I don't have children (by choice). I got my mom a card and an Xbox game for mother's day, yes our whole family plays video games...

AIQ

11:42

@ColleenV I have never owned an Xbox or PS

ColleenV

12:02

@AIQ We switched from PC gaming and won't go back

When you install a game on a console, it works with no adjusting or fiddling

And it's nice to be able to play from a recliner on a TV instead of an office chair

AIQ

I didn't have that luxury ... :/

I used to play a lot of games in PC ... different kinds ...

one of my best friend still plays ... competitively

won some prizes in some Asian tournaments

What do you play?

Which is a fun SE site?

Tv and movies?

ColleenV

@AIQ lots of different games, which is why we like Xbox. It has a game pass subscription with a hundred or so games with new ones getting added every so often

AIQ

12:41

@EddieKallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

7 hours to go!

my sleep schedule is so messed up right now

CowperKettle

Word of the day: subniveal fauna

AIQ

13:46

buying cake from grocery store is an awful idea

userr2684291

Iconicity is a cool new word for me, but I have to admit I wasn't able to understand that section about because (X) enabling it, or whatever. I'd have to reread that.

> The inability of observers to pinpoint the first time because X occurred meshes cohesively with the historical examples provided above and points to the significance of because X lying elsewhere than in brand new syntax. Instead, new semantic and pragmatic associations with the construction are what have made it new. The conversations surrounding because X on the internet so far have only casually considered semantics.

That's kinda what I expected. When I asked that question I felt like it's not really possible for "new grammarz" to emerge quickly, but new vocabulary certainly can, especially with the omnipresence of the media and nowadays the internet. I'd consider because X a snowclone.

ColleenV

14:03

@userr2684291 I like your snazzy new icon. Very bold.

userr2684291

@ColleenV Thank you, thank you. You're far too kind.

userr2684291

14:37

Well, maybe I'm just trying to fit a new phenomenon into a model that's known to me. To me, the because X construction is still intrinsically a type of ellipsis because... reasons, and I don't object to that sort of parsing. Idk, it's a snowclone but in a more grammatical way ("...which makes it a new piece of grammar, you fool").

OK, I give up.

It's just really flexible because it's an ellipsis. I don't care actually, I'm sticking to my guns.

Eddie Kal

14:57

@AIQ :) you are so pumped

AIQ

lol yessssss but maybe it has to do with all the monsters I consumed ...

Eddie Kal

monsters?

Decapitated Soul

@userr2684291, Lol. Doesn't passive articulator mean that it doesn't move during articulating a particular sound?

AIQ

@EddieKal energy drink

I have been awake all night

I need to finish some work

Decapitated Soul

For instance, you do not move your upper lip while articulating /f/ or /v/ so it's passive articulator.

Eddie Kal

15:05

oh I am terrible with all-nighters

AIQ

My friend just bought the whole collection of Scooby Doo. I mean ordered online.

@EddieKal I have no option ... my schedule is just awful now

Eddie Kal

And you are still chatting here?

AIQ

haha just responding

Eddie Kal

I thought you were done with your thesis

AIQ

no not yet, I said I would be turning in my draft, which I did, and then got feedback for minor changes

which I need to finish by end of day tomorrow, after which I turn it back again and prepare for defense

CowperKettle

15:22

I went for a jog, and the streets were teeming with people

It was very foolish of me. I thought that there would be not that many people. But looks like Putin's statement brought people out of homes.

Madame Akira

How much do you guys rely on online grammer checkers ?

I tried this grammerchecker.net and it said "conditions are going to get worsen ? " has no errors in it.

AIQ

I doubt anyone here relies on them.

Cardinal

@MadameAkira What is the grammatical problem with that sentence in your opinion?

Madame Akira

English is not my native language(Hindi is). So can you suggest any grammer checker with least possibility of being wrong ?

@Cardinal I think it should be "going to get worse".

and that site "grammerchecker.net" is the first option on the Google for online grammer checking software.

Cardinal

@CowperKettle It won't contracted that easily though, I mean as long as you maintain a good a mount of distance with them and avoid close contacts.

Madame Akira

15:35

@Cardinal can you tell what is the correct way ?

Cardinal

@MadameAkira Yes, you are right.

Madame Akira

Thank you.

Cardinal

No problem :-)

> Anyone who wants to [ deletion ] can come with me.

This one is an interesting instances of deletion in my opinion.

Madame Akira

One more question the term "Karma" in "Karma is a btihc". Is it present in the dictionary in your country as well or you just came across it someday while chatting to someone ?

Cardinal

Hmm, {} is a bitch is a sort of slang/informal sentence.

Madame Akira

15:40

Oh

Cardinal

I think you would probably find an entry for such a usage is some dictionaries.

Especially the online ones.

Madame Akira

Yes. I looked it up in Mariam Webster and it had the meaning and I am pretty sure Urban Dictionary will have it too.

Cardinal

I mean you can make such sentences

like

> Reality is a bitch.

"It does not care what you say or think, it does whatever it wants to" kind of thing.

Madame Akira

Yes.Karma and Reality are two different things though.

Cardinal

Nods

Madame Akira

15:44

smiles

bye fellas

Cardinal

Have a good day o/

(づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

I've recently developed an affection for text-face emojies!

Featured Questions

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Q: Is 'vertex' the correct term for peak (and valley) point on a curve?

This is about mathematical terminology in English. A simple curving line can have a top peak and a bottom valley. What is the correct term to use for the top/bottom point? In my native tongue, we call it a toppunkt, literally meaning top-most point (although it counts for both peaks and valleys...

terminology mathematics

Cardinal

1

Q: Does using the simple past without "used to/would" imply something happen just once?

1.Your answer takes me back to my college days when I wrote an answer that would grant me not more than 3 marks, to a question that was 15 marks. 2.Your answer takes me back to my college days when I used to/would write answers that would grant me not more than 3 marks, to questions that were 1...

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Q: Would to express habitual actions in past

In Portuguese, there is a specific verbal form in past tense for when one expresses habitual actions in past tense. In English, however, we must use Would. Its usage is more a matter of "how we speak" rather than "how we should speak", i.e: idiomatic usage rather than grammatical usage. This is ...

would

It's interesting;two almost identical questions in a row!

Madame Akira

16:02

@Cardinal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ add this to your collection

Cardinal

@MadameAkira ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ♪

userr2684291

@DecapitatedSoul I don't know. Maybe... but you write movable, and I can move my upper lip.

I'm not that well-versed in the matters of phonetics. I can read the IPA for English words, and I recognize most of the terms because they're kinda obvious and have these Latin roots.

CowperKettle

16:23

The inventor of the throat lozenge has died!
There will be no coffin at his funeral!

Decapitated Soul

Oops...My bad. I had to write 'immovable during articulation.....'

Cardinal

17:14

Some might argue "through" does not work, but I've used it and saw it being used in academia a lot. So, I would say there is no problem with using "through". However, I myself usually use prepositions "in" and "via". — Cardinal 49 secs ago

AIQ

Is it one of the four main criteria or one of the four main criterion?

Cardinal

four main criteria

Anonymous

@AIQ Definitely criteria.

AIQ

hmm that is what I had initially but then I thought I am stating "four"

thankssssssss

Cardinal

Is it weird that my daily playlists go like Paco De lucia, Chopin, and then switches to Hip Hop!

Sometimes I ask myself what you are doing dude!

AIQ

17:20

is that Spanish?

Cardinal

Paco?

AIQ

yeh

Two hours until reinforcements arrive!!!

Cardinal

He's the best guitar player I have listen to. Yes, he was from Spain and a great contributor to Flamenco music.

He's one of the best guitar players I have listen to. Yes, he was from Spain and a great contributor to Flamenco music.*

CowperKettle

> Kim Peek was able to memorize things from the age of 16–20 months. He read books, memorized them, and then placed them upside down on the shelf to show that he had finished reading them, a practice he maintained all his life. He could speed through a book in about an hour and remember almost everything he had read, memorizing vast amounts of information in subjects ranging from history and literature, geography and numbers to sports, music and dates.

He could recall the contents of 12000 books.

Cardinal

@AIQ 0:-)

Anonymous

17:37

I can move my upper lip, so why is it called a passive articulator? — userr2684291 3 hours ago

Anonymous

@userr2684291 It's mostly convention. You could make an argument that it should be called an active articulator in some contexts, but most articulators fit cleanly into one category or the other regardless of what sound you're producing, so that's usually considered to be a property of a given articulator and not something that changes.

Anonymous

The upper lip gets lumped in with the other upper vocal tract articulators, which are generally passive, because of the role it plays and because it doesn't move too much.

userr2684291

@DecapitatedSoul ^

Decapitated Soul

18:01

👍

AIQ

60 minutes out.

Decapitated Soul

@snailcar, I'm going to get you another golden badge :D

Jasper

I have watched "The Golden Compass". There is a Macbook Air available in gold colour.

ColleenV

18:30

Only an hour left in the voting. I'm anxious to see the results.

Cardinal

@ColleenV :))

AIQ

18:49

@ColleenV EddieKal and Glor ...

ColleenV

@AIQ It's hard to know without any exit polling...

AIQ

-_-

ColleenV

Moderator elections on small sites are very personal and often hinge on whether the people you had good interactions with vote.

@snailcar It seems odd that no-one but moderators can see the current number of votes

The constituent badge has been awarded 1337 times. Maybe we should stop while we're "leet" lol

AIQ

19:05

WWWWWhhhhhattttttttttt a bluffffffffffffffffffff ...

It said ends in 2 hours, ends in 1 hour, and now again ends in 60 min

ColleenV

robertecker.com/hp/research/leet-converter.php

AIQ

20:03

Done! Thank you all! now I can concentrate ...

New Meta Question

4

Q: 2020 Community Moderator Election Results

English Language Learners's fourth moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied and the two new moderators are: They'll be joining the existing crew shortly—please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes! For...

discussion featured election

AIQ

Catija was quite helpful - thanks!

userr2684291

21:26

Well, no surprises there.

Not sure how they count the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd thing, though.

ColleenV

22:42

@userr2684291 enough people agreed on their first choices that it never got down to that...

CowperKettle

23:40

M.A.R.

23:51

@CowperKettle He looks like a Matt to me

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