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AIQ
AIQ
09:04
Guy says "Tell me you don't love me".
Girls replies "I don't. I never have."
soooo, why "have"? Shouldn't the obvious choice be "did" - I never did?
 
3 hours later…
userr2684291
userr2684291
11:57
I don't think people think in terms of the choice of word, in this case the verb do, when it comes to auxiliaries, if that's what you mean. This helping verb is there to help convey some grammatical meaning. It's presumably equivalent in native speakers' minds to have or be when they act in that role.
I never have is quite a natural "continuation" (to borrow some chess vocabulary). I think never did works in AmE, however, but that's merely coincidental.
Anonymous
BrE doesn’t generally require the past perfect where AmE doesn’t, it just tends to use it more often in those situations.
Anonymous
Er.
Anonymous
Pretend I just typed perfect.
Anonymous
I’m on my phone and I can’t edit. Also, I’ve been awake all night. That’s my standard excuse I keep on file for just this sort of situation.
Anonymous
Anyway, my point was I think did should work in BrE as well.
userr2684291
userr2684291
12:04
Wouldn't you say this preference, in particular when it comes to words like never, just, already, is markedly AmE usage?
AIQ
AIQ
"I never did" is short for "I never did love you". In that sense, "I never have love you" is ungrammatical.
Google ngram has no entries for "I never have love you".
userr2684291
userr2684291
Oh, I see what you mean. That didn't even occur to me as a plausible expansion of the ellipsis in that context.
Why I said the above is because when I write I already did in chat in the game I play, British players label me as an American or some such.
Perhaps never isn't quite in that category because it's a different use of the perfect.
userr2684291
userr2684291
12:38
Snail is right, of course: never did is only somewhat (with a ratio of 4 to 7) dispreferred in BrE according to BNC and COCA.
ColleenV parted ways
ColleenV parted ways
13:07
@AIQ - It would be "I never have loved you" similar to "I never have fished"
although that still seems weird
AIQ
AIQ
Yes, that is grammatical. Google Ngram shows both "I never did love you" and "I never have loved you" are equally common. But for some reason, ... the "have" version does not feel natural.
The weird thing is this phrase "I never have" is from an "AmE" show that I am watching now
It is unlikely that the BrE argument works in this particular case
Or perhaps the show is trying too hard to create some effect
ColleenV parted ways
ColleenV parted ways
@AIQ "have" is more in the present than "did"
"I don't love you and I never have" versus "I never did love you way back then when we were together."
But not everyone will perceive it that way I think
AIQ
AIQ
So you are saying "I never have" is essentially referring to the recent past and the current present. And "I never did" is referring to the distant past?
ColleenV parted ways
ColleenV parted ways
13:46
@AIQ Not that cut and dried... it’s more of a nuance of how the speaker is thinking about the situation
But like I said, I don’t know that others perceive it that way
If I say I never have, I might feel like the situation is more current than if I used did
but I’m not sure why I feel that way about it
userr2684291
userr2684291
14:31
The version with I never have loved you (as opposed to I have never loved you) merely features a somewhat unusual, or emphatic placement of never. I don't think it's weird, but I'm not sure whether there's something weird going on behind that particular response, I don't love you. I never have.. I don't know if it necessarily expands into the emphatic version you assumed.
It might just be a standard way to respond in such an ellipted fashion, because you don't say I don't love you. I have never..
Actually, maybe it's possible, but a little less likely.
Ellipses don't necessarily expand nicely. E.g., in Did you like that? - I did., the part in bold doesn't expand into I did like it..
Too lazy to replace that with U+2013.
userr2684291
userr2684291
14:46
I refuse to believe that Brits somehow think differently about the same exact situations given the same tools as Americans. I don't see how that makes sense. I think for Brits the present perfect has a somewhat different meaning, or is associated with different phrases or situations.
Or the difference in those situations is too slight to estimate on the fly, and so it's just a matter of dialectal preference. You hear your mum using that construction there, and you don't think about it the next time.
So for all intents and purposes I've never loved you and I never loved you should mean the same in most situations.
Maybe they do think about it differently precisely because a lot of people around them say it that way. So it's like their brains reinterpret that situation in that way. Like a feedback loop sort of thing.
Hm. Food for thought.
Does language shape your thoughts, or vice versa.
 
4 hours later…
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
18:31
@userr2684291 Shapes language your thoughts.
 
2 hours later…
Anonymous
20:20
Good morning, Language Overflowers!
Anonymous
Well, it’s afternoon here, but I’m sure it’s morning somewhere.
AIQ
AIQ
21:51
snailcarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr hellooooooooo
AIQ
AIQ
22:07
@ColleenVpartedways It seems unimportant (which it is), but do you think this would be a valid question for the main site?
Anonymous
22:25
@AIQ Hello! I see my name grew some extra letters while I was gone.
AIQ
AIQ
@userr2684291
Just pinging ya
Anonymous
Are you jealous, userr? You're only up to two r's, and I'm already up to like a billion, it looks like.
userr2684291
userr2684291
23:25
Grr.
Can't even express my anger/jealousy properly. ):
@AIQ Thank you! @M.A.R. You too!
Haha.

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