Language Overflow

VanessaBrown

01:13

I'm Vietnamese and I'm not good at English :((

user178049

Good morning! (if it were morning in your country) o/

@VanessaBrown Keep learning! I'm bad at English too :-)

VanessaBrown

01:37

I don't think you're bad at English

Oh yes, it's 8:37 A.M now

@user178049 where're you from? Malaysia?

user178049

01:55

@Yes I'm from Malaysia

Have a great day! :)

@VanessaBrown I'm still a learning, and still make silly mistakes.. Haha

*a learner

I mean "I'm still learning" -.. -

CowperKettle

02:43

Good cold morning

user178049

03:23

Have a nice day @CowperKettle!

Damkerng T.

04:52

Traditional is dubious. It's better to say that the rule is outdated, old-fashioned, or anything that makes it clearer that the rule is incorrect in Present-Day English. (cc @Araucaria) — Damkerng T. 14 secs ago

@CowperKettle I remember reading that the milk in the west was somewhat radioactive!

@user178049 I'm here. I'm here!

user178049

Hey @DamkerngT.! Where have you been

Damkerng T.

Around :-)

user178049

05:09

@DamkerngT. Do you know something about theta role. I found it on Wikipedia but thr article is so damn heavy.

Or.. Should I say "do you anything"?

*do you know

Damkerng T.

No, it sounds fancy! :D

@user178049 I think just Do you know (about) ...? works best.

user178049

@DamkerngT. Haha, yeah. That sounds better :D

Damkerng T.

Do you know the theta role? Have you ever heard of the theta role? would be my natural choices, FWIW. :D

Did you know what 'theta role' is? would be another possibility.

Ahh... Chomskyan.

user178049

@DamkerngT. Yes, thanks. All of them sound good :D. I just sometimes carelessly and directly translate it from Malay. I know it's a bad habit.

Damkerng T.

Don't worry! We all make mistakes every now and then! :D

This is not exactly a mistake, even! :D

user178049

05:21

Yeah, it is just an inaccuracy. Haha. Mistakes lead to success, I'm fine with that.

Damkerng T.

Yeah! -- Yay! :D

user178049

@DamkerngT is that(--) a substitute for em-dash?

Damkerng T.

Yes! -- I usually use it in chat to separate two messages.

I think I tend to squeeze the number of lines on screen. I'm old school. :-)

Y'know, once upon a time, computers could show only 25 lines on the screen.

user178049

Ohh, I've seen lots of them on ELL. But have never known what it is. Good to know, thanks.

Damkerng T.

Em-dashes have several uses. I think you can think of it as a big brother of the semicolon.

Sometimes it works like a comma, sometimes a semicolon, sometimes even a double-quote.

Sometimes a colon, too!

Aww... ColleenV has already awarded the bounty of the didn't vs wouldn't question.

The selected answer is not bad. It's pretty good, actually.

It's just that I was thinking to add some insights from a non-native speaker's point of view.

Being a lumper, I tend to reduce complicated things down to the essence of them, and this could be useful to some readers.

(Lumpers sit on the opposite side to splittters. Splitters love rules. Lumpers love insights.)

user178049

05:34

Yeah—I'm starting using it now :D

Damkerng T.

Lumpers and splitters

Lumpers and splitters are opposing factions in any discipline that has to place individual examples into rigorously defined categories. The lumper-splitter problem occurs when there is the need to create classifications and assign examples to them, for example schools of literature, biological taxa and so on. A "lumper" is an individual who takes a gestalt view of a definition, and assigns examples broadly, assuming that differences are not as important as signature similarities. A "splitter" is an individual who takes precise definitions, and creates new categories to classify samples that differ...

user178049

I don't know how bounty works. And I can see "set bounty" button under my own questions only.

How can it be awarded to an answer?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think you can offer a bounty on questions by others as well.

The question has to be at least two days old, I think.

@user178049 If you're the one who offered the bounty, you can choose any answer as you see appropriate.

user178049

@DamkerngT. I think only some members with a great number of reputions can do that.

V.V.

+4 – +14ºC, Easter. "Raindrops are falling on my head..." Good morning!

Damkerng T.

05:38

Hmm... interesting. I remember I was able to offer a bounty on EL&U when I had only a couple hundred points.

@V.V. Good morning!

V.V.

You ca always try...

user178049

@DamkerngT. Hmm.. Nevermind, I don't need it now. I'll learn how to use bounty later.

@V.V. Good morning

Damkerng T.

@user178049 Okay! I don't want to dig into the rules right now either. :-)

V.V.

"n" slipped.

CowperKettle

@V.V. +1 C, light snowfall

V.V.

05:46

Oh!

CowperKettle

> Shelf life: 2 years 6 months (<< Is this okay, or should it be "2 years and 6 months"?)

V.V.

I don't think there are special rules, but I 'd say "and"

CowperKettle

Me too

Damkerng T.

Okay. Your usage is fine, actually. It was just that you made me think that you linked the (superficially correct but inaccurate) concept of "indefinite is general and definite is specific" to the word "general" and generalized it to the concept of "general statements". — Damkerng T. 29 secs ago

Articles are hard!

@CowperKettle Sounds fine to me. :D

"2 years and 6 months" would be more proper and sound more careful, but I don't think and is mandatory.

V.V.

Yeah, I found several examples without "and"

Alexey, happy Easter!

Damkerng T.

05:56

Oh, it's Easter today!

Happy Easter!

V.V.

Greenery. I like it when it's fresh.

Those newborn leaves.

Damkerng T.

Ahh -- they're nice!

Zhengquan Bai

06:36

afternoon

Damkerng T.

07:28

This is why the topic of English articles is very intricate (though it could be artificially simplified like in typical grammar books), and I wouldn't want to write an answer. FWIW, let's consider this. On one hand, if you want to discuss it loosely, "a lender", "one lender", "any lender", "a representative of all lenders" would be more or less the same, right? On the other hand, if we want to be strict as strict can be, we could argue that none of them are exactly the same, just roughly the same, but not identical. — Damkerng T. 1 min ago

Afternoon!

Maybe I should've left the question to other users. Someone may write something simple and it would be adequate as an answer, I think, though it might not exactly satisfy the OP's curiosity.

It'd've been much easier to discuss in chat (though it'd still be quite a task to untangle the usage).

But let's try a simple example which could complicate the matter to the point that the question could be too broad.

> He was born on a Tuesday.

Surely, this a Tuesday is not any Tuesday.

It's not a representative of all lenders, either.

It obviously is a specific Tuesday.

Now, a learner such as the OP may argue: but this is not a general statement.

Yes, it's not a general statement, but how do we know if a sentence is general or not?

It's in the meaning, right? So, how can we know that a given sentence is a general one before we know the meaning of each article in the sentence?

Hmm ... I think 'He was born on a Tuesday' works both when the speaker knows which Tuesday he was born and when the speaker doesn't know the birth date!

It's tricky, and heavily depends on context!

(Because we need to know the context before we can construe the meaning anyway!)

Damkerng T.

07:56

Hi! @Brock -- Welcome to the room!

Brock

Hello

Damkerng T.

I've made some "off-record" comments up there. Feel free to read and add your thoughts. :-)

Brock

Yeah could you answer my question?

Damkerng T.

Your question is a rather broad one. I take it as "how can I use English articles correctly?".

Which is very, very broad, even though we try to restrict the discussion only to "general" statements. (But anything fundamental in a language would be broad, I think)

Brock

I meant the Google map question

Damkerng T.

07:59

My first piece of advice is probably this: separate "general" from "definite". They aren't the same.

Oh, I think I'd use maps.

SBM

Well said

Brock

Why can't we use 'a map' when i want to express just any map?

SBM

Depends on where you use it I guess

Brock

And 'a map' could also be a representative of all maps. So why not 'a map' ?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... maybe it's not like we can't. It's just that I don't think that would be how we form that thought.

And sometimes, just changing a word, which we might think it's irrelevant, might change everything.

I was thinking about this toy example while writing my thoughts up there, before you came in.

SBM

08:02

Yes, exactly @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

> a) Women take care of their families.

> b) A woman takes care of her family.

b) sounds somewhat odd, right, out of context.

> c) A good woman would take care of her family.

But adding a couple words changes everything.

SBM

Yes

Damkerng T.

And this kind of stuff makes usage generalization into rules difficult.

I don't mean we can't have rules, but it's very hard to write a rule that cover all the cases.

Most rules are fine if we consider them guidelines, though.

SBM

Yes, the flaw with every human defined language

Brock

Take for example ' A cow is a useful animal' Here 'a cow' expresses just one cow or a cow in general ?

Damkerng T.

08:10

The way the sentence poses it would make it a general cow.

Or a generic cow, if we don't want to risk any confusion between generic and general.

Of course, it's one cow, because it's a cow, but that doesn't mean one and a can always be used interchangeably.

It's just that the sentence would cause the listener to visualize one cow, a typical cow, a generic cow.

Brock

If this is true then why 'a map' sounds wrong ?

After all that Google map question is also a general sentence

Damkerng T.

One general thing about language is: anything that you're less familiar with or you don't expect to hear or to read will sound somewhat off.

I suppose this applies to any languages.

Brock

I was searching on the internet as to when is a noun specific. To this i found, 'A noun is specific when the writer wishes to talk about something in particular'.

Damkerng T.

Google Map displays a map on your screen -- This is normal because I'd expect something like this when I want to express the same idea.

@Brock Which is more or less true, but what precisely does that sentence mean?

Brock

Now this is also a general statement about when are nouns specific. So what if we use 'writers' in place of 'the writer'. What difference would it make?

SBM

08:19

:)

Damkerng T.

It will make it sound somewhat odd, I suppose. :-)

Not wrong, but a bit odd. Why writers instead of the usual the writer? :-)

Brock

I'm confused a lot when to use singular or plural while making a general statement

Damkerng T.

Up to this point, I think I'd recommend separating syntax from semantics (i.e., meaning), and avoid forcing the meaning by syntax and vice versa.

Brock

Don't you think writer here is a generic noun?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... it's generic, but it's definite.

See, they aren't on the same axis.

We can have something generic-definite, something generic-indefinite, something specific-definite, or specific-indefinite.

I also think sometimes the lines are blurred.

This book is very good (but probably too heavy):

books.google.com/books?id=GTgRCjOIKyYC

Brock

08:27

While making a general statement at all nouns generic

While making a general statement are all nouns generic ?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... that's where I think the line is not very clear.

BTW, I personally recommend any books with "cognitive grammar" in the titles if you want to go down to rabbit hole. :-)

Brock

Thanks but i feel if i dig a little deeper i will get confused even more

Damkerng T.

@Brock How would you construe the meaning of the sentence? How do you visualize it?

Let's try your example sentence: A noun is specific when the writer wishes to talk about something in particular

Okay, let me try first. It goes like this in my head (more or less):

Brock

I'm sorry i didn't get what you are asking

Go ahead

Damkerng T.

A noun -- okay, I visualize a "noun" (some noun, any noun would do)

A noun is specific -- Okay this "generic" noun is specific, the sentence says

when -- Aha! Here comes the condition!

the writer -- Oh! So, we're talking about writing. Of course, any piece of writing must have a writer, its writer, the writer!

the writer wishes to talk about -- okay, okay, I can't wait to get to the rest of the sentence!

something in particular -- Ahh (got the idea of the sentence)

Done.

I'm not sure how fast it happens in my head, but I can assure you, it's very, very fast.

So, this is like a slow-mo version of what would happen in my head. :-)

Brock

08:34

That's a great way of explaining!

Damkerng T.

Thanks! Hopefully useful. :-)

Brock

Even i was also good at when to use plural or singular but a few days back I stated reading grammar and i got stuck with the rules

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Haha, that was entertaining.

Damkerng T.

Sometimes rules can get in our way if we think too much about them.

SBM

Good description @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

08:36

Thanks!

Brock

A dog is a pet animal

Here 'a dog' represents one dog or just any dog or representative of all dogs ?

Damkerng T.

All of those are more or less the same, in my opinion.

The difference between the variations is very slight.

Brock

To me also it sounds the same. But if that's the case and then in the sentence "The Google map can load a map instantly". Here also 'a map' should mean representative of all maps. Right ?

Damkerng T.

Yes. Also note that in some contexts, your alternative would be exactly the right choice.

Sometimes it's hard to think about a sentence out of its context. Basically, we all will assume the context when asked to evaluate a sentence, and sometimes we don't imagine the same kind of context, so we'll get different results, obviously.

Brock

"Sometimes it's hard to think about a sentence out of its context. Basically, we all will assume the context when asked to evaluate a sentence, and sometimes we don't imagine the same kind of context, so we'll get different results, obviously." You used this sentence and i guess you are making a general statement. What if you use 'a different result' instead of 'different results'

What difference would it make ?

Damkerng T.

08:47

Hmm... what will we get if each of us is assigned to perform the same task: a result, or results?

Brock

I'm sorry i didn't get

Damkerng T.

If we get a different result, that would mean both of us have the same result but it's different from another result, wouldn't it?

Brock

Hmm it makes sense

Thanks

Damkerng T.

:D

Brock

One more query - Today i was reading 'What is product tax' and the answer was "Product tax is the difference between production taxes and production subsidies".

Now since this is also a general statement about what product tax is can we say it like this - "Product tax is the difference between production tax and production subsidy".

Damkerng T.

08:52

Ahh... this is very tricky! BTW, was product tax printed in a special font or quoted in double quoted or something?

Brock

No, nothing of that sort

Damkerng T.

I see. I don't think a special font is necessary, but I asked anyway, just in case.

This is tricky because tax, like many other nouns in English, can have more than one meaning.

The matter is a bit complicated because some of these meanings (aka senses) may be countable and other uncountable.

One good example of these nouns is language.

We can talk about language (no articles), and we can talk about languages.

Product tax is the difference between production taxes and production subsidies is fine.

Product tax is the difference between production tax and production subsidy is probably not.

Product tax is the difference between production tax and production subsidies probably works, but it doesn't read as good as the original, I suppose.

Brock

Basically what i wanted to ask is suppose I'm going through a definition of something or let's put it this way I'm going through the characteristic of something which i believe will be generally true. Now if that definition has plural form then can i replace it with singular form because singular form i suppose will also represent all members of that class. Right ?

Damkerng T.

And if production taxes was already defined in the text and it was countable, it would sound wrong if suddenly the writer changed to use it as if it were uncountable.

@Brock Generally, yes, I guess, but I think the plural is safer.

Note that I'm talking only about the case of Xs are ... vs. A(n) X is ...

userr2684291

But usually you'd use the indefinite article in definitions.

Damkerng T.

09:00

Ah, right!

See, it's very hard to generalize the idea!

Brock

@DamkerngT. : May i have your email id so that if i find a more succinct example i can reach out to you ?

Damkerng T.

I prefer chatting in this chat room. :-)

And there are many other users who are more knowledgeable than me, so you can post your thoughts here any time you want to!

Brock

So how do i know if you are available at the moment ?

Damkerng T.

I don't know if there's any good way. Just ping me if you want to write me a message.

Like this, if I want to write to you. -- @Brock Hello!

Brock

Sure that would work

Damkerng T.

09:06

nods -- I may not be in the room at the same time, but I will see your pings the next time I come in.

Brock

Okay!

Damkerng T.

Feel free to chat with others too! ;-)

Brock

Photosynthesis is a process in which a plant prepares its own food. Vs Photosynthesis is a process in which plants prepare their own food. I know the latter one sounds more good but if i use the former one 'a plant' there represents all plants. Right ?

Anonymous

They both sound fine to me. And yes, a plant there is a generic noun phrase, representing plants in general.

Damkerng T.

I like plants better anyway. :D

Good afternoon/morning!

Anonymous

09:12

Good morning! :-)

Damkerng T.

By the way, the question on the main site still hasn't gotten an answer:

1

Q: Singular Vs plural while making a general statement

I'm having a hard time in understanding whether to use plural or singular while making a general sentences. Doing a bit of research i found both can be used. For example - A) Dogs are loyal animals. B) A dog is a loyal animal. (Both these sentences are talking about all/any dogs in general) ...

Brock

@DamkerngT. : Here if a plant sounds right then the explanation which you gave about 'the writer' one, although a good one, but even then i should be able to use 'writers' to represent all writers in general. Isn't it ?

Damkerng T.

@Brock In the writing context, it's more usual to use the writer and the reader.

You can use writers, sure, but the reader will read your sentence a bit differently.

Brock

Okay

Damkerng T.

Oh, no! af is on our star-board!

LOL

Brock

09:16

"Studying at good institutes can really make a difference" vs "Studying at a good institute can really make a difference"

Does the former one means more than one institute or just any institute in general ?

Damkerng T.

Both are general statements. I like the latter better because it sounds like personal advice.

But in some other contexts, the former would be more appropriate.

Brock

Okay !

Damkerng T.

Don't forget that we can't really consider a sentence out of its context!

Brock

Indeed

Damkerng T.

Okay, I'm gonna leave. May (or may not :) be back later.

Have a nice chat, everyone!

userr2684291

09:21

@DamkerngT. You too! Oh, wait...

Anonymous

09:40

@DamkerngT. Yep. We don't do a lot with generative grammar 'round these parts, so the "theta roles" term doesn't come up much. We do talk about grammatical functions (subject, object, etc.) and semantic roles (agent, experiencer, etc.) and the relationships between the two, though.

Anonymous

And we talk about complements and, every now and then, valency.

Anonymous

Theta grids are right out, though ;-)

SBM

10:07

theta

?

userr2684291

@SBM Bing it. :>

SBM

OK

CowperKettle

10:29

or Google it

or Yandex it

SBM

Done

@CowperKettle

CowperKettle

Reductio ad Googlurdum

user178049

Hey @snailplane. Have you recovered?

userr2684291

Regoogleit ad absurdum.

SBM

not absurd.

userr2684291

10:46

I like the catchphrase Bing it because no one actually says it or uses Bing (unless it's hijacked your browser), but in that one show they did.

M.A.R.

ell.stackexchange.com/review/close/55433

o.o

SBM

o.o ?

userr2684291

@M.A.R. That's considered spam?

CowperKettle

I wonder if the homosexual interpretation of Shakespeare's sonnets is well-grounded, or if it is some flight of imagination. For instance, Sonnet 20

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 It sounded too much like previous deleted spam. It's a dumb script, hence the ''too much''

Words like ''rent'', ''cash'' etc.

CowperKettle

10:52

How can we be sure that Shakespeare was enamoured with a young man. Maybe he was just kind of joking.

userr2684291

@M.A.R. I mean, why'd you cast your vote in favor of closing it?

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 The first comment

It's easily answerable with a dictionary

Notably, SE's definition of spam is restricted to advertisement trying to sell stuff to me

Much stricter than the broad internet definition

SBM

yes that's true @M.A.R.

userr2684291

@M.A.R. Ah, right. For some reason I thought it meant you'd agreed with its being considered as spam.

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 We don't and shouldn't VTC spam. We should just flag it

SBM

10:57

Word of the next day: aa

M.A.R.

What does ''aa'' mean?

SBM

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/aa

Basaltic lava forming rough jagged masses

M.A.R.

I like Anti-Aircraft better

We should pronounce ''aa'' like sheep sound

SBM

:=)

userr2684291

@M.A.R. .ب og peehS

SBM

11:05

What?

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 More like بعععع

userr2684291

@M.A.R. Right.

SBM

Sorry guys I can't quite understand Arabic.

M.A.R.

So I was hinting at the latter part and ignoring the /b/

@SBM Meh, we're not saying anything important anyway

SBM

Oh

userr2684291

11:09

@SBM That was obviously Farsi.

@M.A.R. *Beh.

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 Well, the script is called Arabic

userr2684291

@M.A.R. Yeah, but one doesn't understand a script.

SBM

Oops

Maybe coruscant is a better word for word of the day

userr2684291

@SBM You want something that's de jure not obsolete but de facto unused. Bonus points if it's so specific it's not likely anyone will find any use for the word whatsoever.

@SBM Some of my recent Word Of The Day attempts don't showcase this quality, but older ones incontrovertibly do.

Araucaria

11:25

@DamkerngT. What a good question. Going to need a very clear answer! Difficult to do ...

userr2684291

@SBM Also, choosing technical words is considered cheating (they're also dull).

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Yes, good way of putting it :)

CowperKettle

> There lives more life in one of your fair eyes
Than both your poets can in praise devise.

What is meant by "both"? Maybe "both eyes"?

This is Sonnet 83

hmm.. lemme google it

userr2684291

12:00

It almost undoubtedly refers to poets, although I'm not certain as to the particulars. I believe it serves as a contrast between one (single eye) and two (poets in their entirety).

Both your poets could mean there are two poets that dedicate their poems to that person.

Araucaria

0

A: "Not only" with a negative context

Double negatives In standard English it is perfectly possible to have two negative words in one sentence. This effectively gives the sentence a positive meaning: I didn't not do my homework. This is the kind of sentence we might say after somebody claimed that we didn't do our homework. The ...

Fawad

12:26

What is difference between notion and notation?

Araucaria Man

@Fawad A notion is an idea. Notation is the way that you write something down.

Man_From_India

15:13

@AraucariaMan Oh name changed :-)

Anyway, sorry for late reply. Was a bit busy. I wrote my answer there.

0

A: Is "have to" a modal verb?

In a broader sense, verbs are generally of two types - Auxiliary verbs and Lexical verbs. Auxiliary Verbs are further classified into two - Modal auxiliary verbs and Non-Modal Auxiliary Verbs. So to know whether have to is a modal verb or not, we have to first know whether it's a lexical verb ...

Man_From_India

15:29

4

Q: Can a preceding vehicle mean a vehicle ahead?

When driving, you should keep a certain distance from a vehicle ahead of you (or in front of you) I would like to use "a preceding vehicle" instead of "a vehicle ahead of you" because "a vehicle ahead of you" is longer. Is it acceptable?

adjectives

Now this is strange -

books.google.com/ngrams/… — Khan 9 hours ago

I think preceding vehicles is impossible.

I checked the origin of the authors of the books where that phrase occurred. Most I found non native, the rest I couldn't find anything about their origin.

V.V.

17:40

"low- burning candles " What does it mean?

Anwar

18:02

hi

What does it mean to be vulnerable?

M.A.R.

@Anwar Hi

@Anwar It means to be susceptible to damage

Easily hurt

@V.V. I take 'low' to mean the height of the flame

V.V.

Hi!

M.A.R.

So a low-burning candle is likely to oust

@V.V. \o

V.V.

You mean the flame is weak, right?

Anwar

@M.A.R. thank you

M.A.R.

18:11

@V.V. Yah

V.V.

And my first impression was that the candle itself burnt almost up to the end. Funny.

Thanks

M.A.R.

@V.V. unlikely

M.A.R.

20:29

@Arau deletion does nothing to help that OP's ban.

@Fawad I canceled the stars on this one. Hope you don't mind. I don't want it to garner flags.

@M.A.R. I have edited my post to make it clearer :) — Araucaria Man 21 secs ago

Yep, and I upvoted

M.A.R.

20:50

@JavaLatte Thanks. i did , but i can't understand means of this . for example now i know mean of «granted» and other worlds in this sentence, but all of this phrase , doesn't meaningful for me. if you can , please explain means of this , in other worlds. — watermelon 3 mins ago

In other worlds? Neptune might do

Araucaria Man

@M.A.R. No. And explaining that to him made him happy for it to be undeleted. But that didn't happen because of the undelete vote! :D

M.A.R.

Well, communication is indeed important

But kinda besides the point

Araucaria Man

@M.A.R. Well, may be ...

@M.A.R. Got to fly my old friend. Am off to meet some buddies. Ciao!

M.A.R.

\o

Araucaria Man

22:45

@ColleenV I think you might need to chat with the S.E. team about this idea here from your comment "once it's been posted, it is no longer theirs". That's not my understanding of the situation. Could you double check on that, and get back? Cheers old bean :)

Anonymous

23:32

@AraucariaMan You've become a superhero!

skull petrol

o/

Anonymous

@AraucariaMan The way the site is supposed to work, your contributions remain yours (after all, you haven't assigned copyright to your words to someone else!), but by posting them here you are licensing your words to SE under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) license, which lets SE do certain things with them.

Anonymous

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't really tell you much about the fine points of the license, but that's how it's supposed to work.

Anonymous

Practically, that means if someone chooses to delete a post, it can be undeleted because (at least, according to the non-legalese summary of the license I've linked to, which is not the license itself) "The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms."

Anonymous

That is, if a user decides to delete 100% of their posts from Stack Exchange, SE might undo that sort of thing and un-delete valuable posts that help the community, because they (are supposed to) have a license to do so, and it's in the interest of the community to do so.

Anonymous

23:40

But a SE user can, if they really want, ask SE to remove their name from the posts.

Anonymous

If they don't want to have all those posts on the internet with their name underneath.

Anonymous

That is my best understanding of the situation, but of course I'm not a lawyer, and I don't really know how the licensing stuff works.

userr2684291

@snailplane What about automatically deleted posts? Do they undergo shallow deletion as well?

Anonymous

@userr2684291 Erm. What is shallow deletion?

Anonymous

Automatically "deleted" posts are not actually deleted in the system. They are retained forever, but not shown to users unless they have enough reputation to see deleted posts, and only if those users have a way of finding the URLs to the deleted content.

Anonymous

23:45

There are ways of permanently deleting content, but they aren't used in the common case.

Araucaria Man

@snailplane Yes, that's pretty much what I thought was the case :) But I'm not a lawyer either!

skull petrol

The internet has, to a certain extent, "rewritten" the plagiarism laws.

imho

userr2684291

@snailplane When a post is eligible for undeletion after it's been deleted.

But you've answered my question...

Anonymous

If, for example, someone uploaded content that legally could not be hosted on SE's servers, SE has tools available to excise that content permanently. But usually deletions are "shallow" as you put it, if I understand you correctly. Almost all posts are eligible for undeletion.

Anonymous

I think that only moderators can actually search deleted posts and comments, though.

Anonymous

23:48

@userr2684291 Oh! Good :-)

Araucaria Man

@snailplane Yes, it was becoming a bit wearing to explain that I was a bloke. And I realised that even though, in principle, I shouldn't care in terms of my posts, it was becoming confusing in terms of my social interaction, and I kinda did care about that ... (maybe I shouldn't, but I did! So ...)

skull petrol

Oops, that was a bit TMI :-)

Araucaria Man

@skullpetrol TMI?

skull petrol

Too Much Info

ColleenV

@AraucariaMan You can ask to have your name disassociated from the content, but by posting you've waived your right to have complete control over the content.

userr2684291

23:52

Trademark Infringement.

Araucaria Man

@ColleenV Yes, but it's still your stuff. And you haven't waived away all your rights relating to it. And I don't think SE is as brutal with regard to the OW's wishes as is often made out ...

W=writer

:)

OK, my lovelies (as they say in Devon). Gotta make the long slog back home ...

Ciao all! o/

skull petrol

Cya

\o

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