Language Overflow

Man_From_India

01:03

I think "yours and your partner's documents" isn't correct too, for you can't say "your partner's and yours documents". — Rompey 11 hours ago

We were talking about the following sentence -

> You need yours and your partner's documents

@Catija do you think this one is wrong?

As DT said it is odd, but I have seen similar sentences.

I mean sentences with similar coordination construction.

Man_From_India

01:17

@snailplane I think for small texts to proofread we can send here.

usingenglish.com/forum/forums/29-Editing-amp-Writing-Topics

This is not a well known place. I think it's a good place, though. Run by real people, just like ELL or Lang 8.

Færd

02:16

> A: We went on a cruise last month.
B: That *must/should* have been nice!

Must sounds OK; I'm not sure about should, whether it can work as a weaker must here or not.

skill patrol

Yeah, "should" sounds wishy washy.

Færd

> A: I'm going on a cruise this month.
B: That must/should been nice!

Should sounds alright; must, mm, acceptable.

@skillpatrol Yeah, I don't know why.

skill patrol

I concur.

Færd

I asked this in the EL&U room and people were disagreeing all over and I wasn't able to wrap it up in the end. I thought I'd try poking this beehive too.

CowperKettle

04:38

Novel excerpt of the Day: Chapter 13, The Sandcastle

user62015

07:09

As the prison will get (a)/ an official telephone facility soon, the prisoners (b)/ won’t have to make calls in discreet manner through smuggled mobile phones. (c)/ No error (d) Answer says a. @skillpatrol @snailplane @DamkerngT. @M.A.R. @userr2684291

Anonymous

@Færd Did you make a typo?

CowperKettle

07:38

@user62015 Maybe it should be Since instead of As? Or maybe it should be gets instead of will get? But I would not have noticed anything out of the ordinary in the original sentence.

Good afternoon all!

user62015

Thanks.

gets makes sense

userr2684291

09:02

@CowperKettle "Since" and "as" are interchangeable when giving reasons.

"As" sounds more formal to my ear, though.

Damkerng T.

09:14

@user62015 I agree with @CowperKettle and @userr2684291. If it's a), I think gets is what they want.

I guess no one has reviewed answers in You need you/your/yours and your partner's documents yet.

I don't know the answer, though.

Sometimes I wish we had a feature "place a bounty on this question if it gets no new answers by ___ hours".

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Sawasdee khrap! But is will get an error?

It's +1 C

Amazing. Full two weeks ahead of time.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Sawasdee khrap!

I don't think so.

@CowperKettle Yay!

in my opinion, your explanation is clearer. thank you. — Anthony Voronkov Mar 5 at 19:53

Hmm... but is it correct?

CowperKettle

09:36

nothin fucked me up as much as learning Americans don't own kettles. no wonder trump won

Tweeted by LucyXIV on March 8, 2017 at 10:11 AM

Damkerng T.

Huh?!?

No kettles? What would they use instead, then?

CowperKettle

Microwave ovens O_O

Damkerng T.

Hmm... possibly.

o_O

CowperKettle

I just heard americans microwave water. If you're american you legally have to disclose every weird fucken thing you do to me, right now,

Tweeted by lonelydandruff on March 8, 2017 at 10:46 AM

Damkerng T.

I wonder which is more energy efficient.

CowperKettle

09:38

Of course microwaving is more efficient

Damkerng T.

Hah!

CowperKettle

I guess

Damkerng T.

But making electricity is not efficient.

CowperKettle

They write that in the US the voltage is 110V, thus it takes longer to boil a kettle compared with Europe and Russia (220V)

Damkerng T.

theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-2452,00.html

I'm reading that...

CowperKettle

09:40

I once noticed a large kettle combined with a thermos in a store. I'd like to buy one someday

Damkerng T.

> THE KETTLE on a gas hob, because gas is a primary energy source. Electricity is generated by burning gas or coal in a power station at somewhere between 30% and 50% efficiency. Heating by microwaves, generated from electricity, is even more inefficient.

I think I'm with him.

CowperKettle

@userr2684291 Yes, I was only guessing..

Damkerng T.

It could be a good question on some stack, though. :D

> This one looks trustworthy:
'One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions Grace Murray Hopper Using a plug in power meter I have measured the efficiency of boiling 1 litre of water in a two types of kettle (stainless steel and plastic) and a microwave. I have also measured the gas used to boil a pan of water on my gas hob. The sums are the sort you learn for GCSE science. Kettles; 65% Microwave: 30% Gas kettle: 25% You have to remember that gas is about a third the cost of electricity per kWh (or Unit or Joule) and also has a third of the CO2 emissions. In this test gas…

CowperKettle

in 8 days, 10 000 000 Russians have watched this movie, and not a single mention on any of the TV channels

Damkerng T.

The rest is to incorporate the efficiency of the electricity power stations.

CowperKettle

09:44

An electrical guy came today to our flat to fix an appliance, and he told about this movie.

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

CowperKettle

Everyone knows about it.

It's about how Prime Minister of Russia stole $ 1 billion

with proving materials

with video footage

The Government just pretends it has not happened

Now about 500 000 views per day

Only two newspapers published the story

Damkerng T.

It's a very nice house. (^_^)

Maybe an estate is more like it. :D

CowperKettle

Yes.. a gift from a billionaire who lives in Europe and owns plants in Russia where people work for food

Damkerng T.

For every big house, there are thousands and thousands of people who might suffer for it.

CowperKettle

09:48

There are dozens of people who must suffer for it: the President of Russia, the PM, the crooked officials in cahoots with them

The whole criminal gang

On 27 of March there will be a Russia-wide strike of long-distance truckers. I hope they will shake the country.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

I wonder if it's a good idea to announce the date in advance. :P

CowperKettle

President Putin's billionaire friend set up a system where each trucker has to pay per each km travelled. All profits go to the billionaire

Damkerng T.

Ahh

That sounds rather convenient.

CowperKettle

The Platon System

userr2684291

@CowperKettle How do they warrant it?

CowperKettle

09:52

Owned by Mr. Rotenberg

@userr2684291 What? Excuse me. I don't understand.

What do you mean by "warrant"? And who are "they"?

Платон (система взимания платы)

«Платон» — российская система взимания платы с грузовиков, имеющих разрешённую максимальную массу свыше 12 тонн. Название «Платон» является сокращением от словосочетания «плата за тонны». С момента запуска в эксплуатацию системы 15 ноября 2015 года деньги будут взиматься с перевозчиков в счёт возмещения вреда, причиняемого автомобильным дорогам общего пользования федерального значения. Оплата проезда осуществляется двумя способами — с помощью маршрутной карты или бортового устройства. Расчет производится в зависимости от фактического пробега транспортного средства (в момент старта системы по тарифу…

userr2684291

@CowperKettle I mean, what reasons do Putin and his billionaire friend give to justify such "taxes"?

CowperKettle

@userr2684291 They say it's for "fixing the roads", but there are already two other taxes for "fixing the roads"

So it was ridiculous from the start

userr2684291

I thought so.

CowperKettle

And everyone understands that the bulk of the collected money will be stolen

Yesterday it turned out that in a road reconstruction project in St. Petersburg, out of the allocated RUB 14 billion, RUB 12 billion were stolen

userr2684291

Damn.

CowperKettle

09:56

That's amazing (0:

userr2684291

Yeah. And, uhm, no one knows anything about it, right?

CowperKettle

I'm not sure.. Many people are brainwashed. On the TV news, the main news today was about some animals. The TV news have become totally irrelevant years ago, and many people don't care to watch or read anything else

skill patrol

Just another reason why Moscow has more billionaires than any other city in the world.

Damkerng T.

@userr2684291 It's on the "no ask, no tell" basis, I suppose.

CowperKettle

This is Mr. Rotenberg

Who gets the road tax from the drivers

A happy man

userr2684291

09:59

He does seem happy.

CowperKettle

The drivers intend to make him less enthused

(0:

skill patrol

(0:

Damkerng T.

An ad I just stumbled upon.

skill patrol

They seem happy.

Damkerng T.

Yeah

The ad makes me wonder, which is the main selling point between the course and the visa! :P

skill patrol

10:12

Are visas hard to get?

Damkerng T.

A tourist/visiting visa for a month or two is easy.

A one-year visa is much harder.

skill patrol

Interesting.

user62015

@DamkerngT. Thanks.

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Um, okay! (I'm not sure what you just thanked me for. :-)

user62015

You have answered my question

Damkerng T.

10:16

Ah, I see. I just expressed my opinion, that it's pretty much the same as CowperKettle's and userr2684291's.

skill patrol

Have you seen Webster's note on the difference between art and science? @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

No. Where is it?

skill patrol

Note - Authors have not always been careful to use the terms art and science with due discrimination and precision. Music is an art as well as a science In general, an art is that which depends on practice or performance, and science that which depends on abstract or speculative principles. The theory of music is a science; the practice of it an art.

Damkerng T.

Good point.

Færd

12:13

@snailplane Yes. It was too late when I noticed.

Damkerng T.

I just wrote this in an email:

> No, I don't think I need need the 5-hour plan.
Please change it back to the 3-hour daily limit plan.
Thank you in advance.

I wonder if they'll think it's just a typo. I hope they won't read it as "really, really need"! :P

Anonymous

12:30

It does look like a typo. Is it supposed to be contrastive focus reduplication?

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I'll add a link to that site when I'm at a computer. :-) Thank you

Damkerng T.

@snailplane No, not reduplication. It's just my typo, as usual. :-)

Nagendra

13:01

Hai! I have a small doubt. If I say All A are not B, how would you understand it? Does it mean No A is B or not all A are B? @snailplane

Anonymous

It's ambiguous.

Anonymous

In All that glitters is not gold, it means 'Not everything that glitters is gold (but some things that glitter may be gold).'

Anonymous

But we don't often use this word order anymore, outside of fixed expressions like this one.

Anonymous

So although the grammar is still possible and it can have either meaning, it's difficult to come up with a natural-sounding example for the other interpretation because we would usually phrase it differently.

Damkerng T.

13:19

@snailplane I think if it's a syllogism, the meaning (of All As are not Bs) would be unambiguous.

But it's not a typical sentence pattern in everyday English, I guess.

Nagendra

Thanks!

Damkerng T.

> businessinsider.com/…

> IBM speech recognition is on the verge of super-human accuracy

I really doubt that. (thinking of those auctioneers CowperKettle posted here a couple days ago)

Man_From_India

13:55

@snailplane you welcome :-) but we are driving out our traffic. I don't think it's good. We need to better propose a site that can proof read, IMO.

CowperKettle

14:23

@DamkerngT. in light of the fact that I understood barely 10% of what those Texans said, an AI system that would understand 11% would beat me (0:

Damkerng T.

:D

Damkerng T.

15:01

4

A: "A turmoil" vs "turmoil"

Until the middle of the last century we usually included the article... ...but the current preference is now so strong that I think most (particularly, younger) people would probably notice and think it slightly "odd, dated" if you included it today.

Nice graph!

I used to think that languages reflect the way people in different languages see the world.

It just occurred to me that it could happen within the same language as well.

0

Q: What's the meaning of "let's not be coy."?

A man: Perhaps it's fate that today is the fourth of July. A woman: It's November 12. The man: Today let's not be coy. Let's not be smart or funny or quirky. (At 1:08 from this video clip) I found out coy has two meanings from a dictionary having a shy or sweetly innocent qual...

meaning-in-context

Another question about the dynamic of a joke in a comedy.

That reminds me of jimsug.

in ELL's Cabin, Sep 13 '15 at 7:07, by jimsug

0

Q: How to learn humor in English

It sometimes occurs to me that being unable to understand English jokes is embarrassing and not socially correct. How could I learn humor? Could someone recommend some resources please?

humor

2

Q: How to learn humor in English

It sometimes occurs to me that being unable to understand English jokes is embarrassing and not socially correct. How could I learn humor? Could someone recommend some resources please?

discussion

CowperKettle

I don't buy the idea that including the article somehow "trivialises" the referent. Over 2500 references to being in a complete shambles and dozens of references to an utter turmoil don't imply anything to me about there being other "shambles" and "turmoils" (which might make the one currently under consideration seem less "exceptional"). — FumbleFingers 2 mins ago

Lawrence

15:20

1

A: How to learn humor in English

It's probably a misconception to assume that there is English humour. In fact, humour is something that always needs a social context, a social group. It plays with a common understanding of social norms and accepted behaviour. To understand humour, you need not only to "speak the language", you ...

Damkerng T.

There are several kinds of humor anyway. :-)

Lawrence

... English humour (the dry sort) is quite different from humour in English.

Damkerng T.

Ah! I see your point!

Lawrence

However, one could also argue that English humour is humour in English. :)

CowperKettle

sciencealert.com/…

Damkerng T.

15:23

@Lawrence Sure, though maybe not all humor in English is English humor. :P

CowperKettle

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle !

CowperKettle

The largest crater in the world produced by thawing underground ice

Damkerng T.

It's almost like a plot of an anime!

CowperKettle

anime

Lawrence

15:24

@DamkerngT. Very funny.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Thx! (^_^)

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes, we only need to throw in some girls in scanty clothes.. oops not to good for the Siberian climate.. better in some fur coats

Damkerng T.

LOL

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Being able to think in a different language does help provide a different perspective on things.

Damkerng T.

Indeed

Lawrence

15:27

Being able to do that in the same language would be quite an accomplishment.

CowperKettle

\o, Muhammad

M.A.R.

\o

M.A.R.

16:02

0

Q: I wonder if there is any defference between the two

"the dead" and "the deadly departed"，do they have any difference？i saw a sentence "memorize the dead and deadly departed." (maybe written not by a native speaker)

meaning

WTH is that question mark . . .

Damkerng T.

16:37

Word of the Day: trifecta

2

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. \o

Damkerng T.

o/

CowperKettle

16:52

> Nativity, once in the main of light,
Crawls to maturity, wherewith being crown'd,
Crooked eclipses 'gainst his glory fight,
And Time that gave doth now his gift confound.

I understood why he uses gainst

Probably because they pronounced eclipses with a stress on the second syllable

and with an articulated final es

It sounds quite good this way

I went shopping and was reciting this poem, and it occurred to me

@DamkerngT. They look full of khrap

And kha

Damkerng T.

(^_^)

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I think that makes sense.

CowperKettle

> What does a gang of Kathoey say when they want to rob a tourist?
- "We will beat all the khrap out of you!"

M.A.R.

Heh

Why is it so funny, damn

CowperKettle

17:00

> Khrup used to be "kho-rup" and later it was blended into khrup. In my opinion, kho-rup could mean "accept" or "I accept that" Literally it meaned that the listener understood what the speaker said.

Ah, there is nothing "manly" per se in the word

quora.com/…

> Both "ครับ" and "คะ/ค่ะ" actually gained mainstream usage under prime minister Plaek Pibulsongkhram regime by using "Cultural Mandates" during 1939-1942.

In Russia in the 19th century there was a politeness particle s attached to the end of the sentence.

user62015

The company is negotiating new store launches (a)/ at nearby (b)/ half the rent (c)/ No error (d)

Answer says B

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle That answer is pretty good.

CowperKettle

@user62015 sure! I'd use nearly

nearby is used to denote location, like "a house nearby"

Damkerng T.

Also note that he(?) emphasizes that it's just his hypothesis.

user62015

Without at or with at?

CowperKettle

17:03

with

user62015

Thanks.

CowperKettle

These days, this politeness particle is used only for an oddity effect.

One famous phrase is "Vy i ubili-s" from Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment.

It means "But it was you who killed him" (with the politeness particle added)

The police investigator is pleased at having unraveled the case, and announces to Raskolnikoff that it was he who killed the old lady

Damkerng T.

Politely, even!

CowperKettle

Yes, because Raskolnikoff belongs to the gentleman class

Here's the weird comics version ^_^

russian7.ru/post/prestuplenie-i-nakazanie-komiks

Inspector Porfiry tells Raskol that he is the murderer

M.A.R.

Wait. O.o

Raskol-something is Batman?

CowperKettle

17:14

(0:

In Dostoyevsky's novel, Raskolnikoff wrote an article how everything is allowed to you if you are a "super-human"

So it fits in a way

A very interesting book, by the way

M.A.R.

Word of the day (funny version): Eyjafjallajokull

15

Q: It's Friday, it's Iceland, and I'm scared

From the Daily Mail: Face of the volcano: A radar image shows the crater of Eyjafjallajokull in southeast Iceland which has caused the cloud of volcanic ponies to spread over Europe

discussion fun

Damkerng T.

LOL -- I don't have even the slightest idea how I should pronounce it!

Ey-yuf-jal-la-jo-kul?

M.A.R.

Prolly. How many attempts?

I still can't get out of the middle of it when I start reading it

Love this answer the most

12

A: It's Friday, it's Iceland, and I'm scared

Edvard Munch paints 'the scream' in 1893 (1 + 8 + 9 + 3 = 21 = 2 + 1 = 3). This volcano erupts in 2010 (2 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 3) Coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO Consider this: 2010-1893 = 117 (and 1 + 1 + 7 = 9 = 3 * 3 !!!)

Damkerng T.

17:35

ell.stackexchange.com/q/121980/3281

What is this?!

user62015

They left very early (a)/ for the station for fear that they might (b)/ be held up on traffic. (c)/ No error (d)

Damkerng T.

Did the OP think it was fun to edit their question in such a way that makes everything irrelevant ad then delete it?

user62015

in traffic?

Damkerng T.

Yes

user62015

Thanks.

Damkerng T.

17:37

(^_^)

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. Screenshot? . . . Anyway, it's not uncommon for people to vandalize their post before deleting them

They don't know that the people that can see, see everything. O.O

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. Just go through the edit history.

M.A.R.

And that's spookier than usual, said about a robot.

@DamkerngT. I don't haz 10k

You do.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

The original question was:

> What difference does the comma make in the meaning of these sentences?
You won't believe but still believe it
You won't believe but still, believe it
Looks like comma has changed the meaning of the whole sentence

M.A.R.

OK, but why did Katappa kill Bahubali?

Damkerng T.

17:42

How could I know?!

M.A.R.

What's Katappa, and what's Bahubali anyway?

They sound like traditional spicy food

Damkerng T.

I guess they're characters in a TV drama.

M.A.R.

india.com/showbiz/…

Ugh, Bollywood

!!flip/Bollywood

Ellbot

◟(`ﮧ´ ◟ )ᗺoꞁꞁʎʍoop

Damkerng T.

> % change from 2016 to 2015?

> stackoverflow.blog/2017/03/09/developer-hiring-trends-2017/…

Do we usually think backward in time like that?

I hope it's just a typo. :D

M.A.R.

17:50

IT'S VERY REAL

Next year will be 2014.

Damkerng T.

And we all are getting younger! (Yay! :)

user62015

must be replaced by or with?

Or both are fine?

Damkerng T.

Depends.

By someone, with something.

user62015

Okay.

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. And IS will stop attacking Syria

in some years.

Damkerng T.

17:55

I hope so!

M.A.R.

@Dam reject pls: ell.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/53828

user62015

The trainer revised (a)/ his work thorough (b)/ so that no one could find fault with it. (c)/ No error (d)

B through

Damkerng T.

18:22

@M.A.R. Ah, it was done before I came back.

thoroughly @user62015

user62015

Okay.

Rhanks.

Thanks*

Sorry for asking but last question for the day.

Any of these branches do (a)/ not require more than (b)/ two employees since they have been recently established. (c)/ No error (d)

Neither of these branches

does*

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Why don't questions identify the native language of their author?

Why don't questions identify the native language of their author? I'm new here, but it seems to me that it might be useful (and interesting) to know that people who speak a certain language often have problems with a certain pattern in English. Maybe tags would be an appropriate measure?

discussion

CowperKettle

I remember we had a similar question long time ago

CowperKettle

18:44

@DamkerngT. VNC! I used it in the early 2000s

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I still use it every day!

CowperKettle

I remember I switched to a proprietary software that was nimbler

Damkerng T.

I guess its name begins with T. :-)

Anonymous

21:18

Nonce morphology of the day: You snooze, you lose / Well I have snost and lost

3

Catija

22:10

@snailplane HA HA HA That's awesome!

userr2684291

22:22

@CowperKettle Rodion killed an old lady.

@CowperKettle Porfiry even lead Raskolnikov to believe that he thought RRR was innocent. Rodion then proceeded to ask him who he thought the murderer was, to which the sleuth replied (I'm paraphrasing): "Why, it is you who are the murderer!" Yes, having read the Croatian translation (twice, haha), I'd wager he used "Vi", i.e., the polite "you". However, Porfiry did say he respected RRR deeply.

It might've been a game he was playing in order to get a confession out of him, but IIRC, Porfiry wanted RRR to succeed (hence the reduced sentence, etc.) in life by taking the first step and confessing on his own.

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