Language Overflow

Anonymous

02:09

@Man_From_India CGEL does call who a relative pronoun.

Anonymous

Quirk et al do use subordinator and coordinator, but in their terminological universe these are simply shorthand for subordinating conjunction and coordinating conjunction (the same as the traditional terms).

Anonymous

So the question is whether you consider subordinator and coordinator to be sub-types of a single word class, conjunction. CGEL does not, and the authors consider the term conjunction to be confusing, so they simply use the shorter terms.

Anonymous

But as a practical matter, as a reader you don't have to worry much about that distinction.

Anonymous

In the case of CGEL, the choice reflects a conceptual distinction, but I don't think it'll cause problems if you simply ignore the difference and treat subordinator and subordinating conjunction as synonyms.

V.V.

04:26

"Quality time" is a good phrase I never met before.

It's really cold outside. Plus 6ºC.

CowperKettle

+9°C here

Good morning!

BBL

Word of the day: ectodomain

CowperKettle

04:48

> A novel theory suggests that orthographic processing is the product of neuronal recycling, with visual circuits that evolved to code visual objects now co-opted to code words. Here, we provide a litmus test of this theory by assessing whether pigeons, an organism with a visual system organizationally distinct from that of primates, code words orthographically.

> Pigeons not only correctly identified novel words but also display the hallmarks of orthographic processing, in that they are sensitive to the bigram frequencies of words, the orthographic similarity between words and nonwords, and the transposition of letters.

pnas.org/content/early/2016/09/13/1607870113

"Orthographic processing in pigeons (Columba livia)"

Another thing we have in common with pigeons: we both can read.

> Stern bells annoy the rooks and doves at ten.
I watch the verger close the doors, and when
I hear the organ moan the first amen,
Sing my religion's-same as pigeons'.

Morning, @snailplane!

CowperKettle

05:23

I know it's evening in California, but I think it is more useful for other chat users to know the speaker's time of reference.

Maybe it should be "Good mornevening" to indicate both the speaker's and the adressee's times of reference

CowperKettle

06:38

> Low molecular weight osmotic agent used to adjust the osmotic pressure of the solution and ensure its compatibility with the human body

Is there a shorter formulation? In Russian, it's "physiologicity".

In English, it's a mouthful

CowperKettle

06:49

I wonder how to properly write this in an abridged form (in a table):

> Rus. Pharm XIII, vol. III, Mon. "Water for Injection"

Mon. "Water for Injection" means the pharmacopoeial monograph titled "Water for Injection".

But I know that in English we don't use the quotation marks as often, and Mon. might be hard to understand

> Rus. Pharm XIII, vol. III, Water for Injection

Maybe like this is better

CowperKettle

07:39

Statistical analysis of Russian election results

In the voting stations with abnormally high attendance, the percentage of votes for United Russia is ... abnormally high, which shows that the votes were simply rigged

(0:

Or maybe the Central Theorem of statistics is wrong, who knows

V.V.

08:04

@CowperKettle, what is a heater working on gas called? or is it a unique thing belonging to our region only?

Damkerng T.

:P

Hi, @V.V.

@V.V. I suppose a gas heater would be understood.

CowperKettle

08:19

@V.V. If it's an industrial installation, it might be gas-fired heater

I memorized this "fired" thing a while ago

Sawasdee khrap, @DamkerngT.!

@DamkerngT. (0:

Damkerng T.

Sawasdee khrap!

:D

Cardinal

@CowperKettle :D

It seems lang-8 is largely dominated by people who wants to learn Japanes. That's interesting.

V.V.

09:41

Sawasdee kha,@DamkerngT.I just called for a man from gas service to check it. Hope it will be warm soon in the house. Is it understandable or is there another way to say it?

Damkerng T.

10:53

@V.V. I think so. (I've never used gas heaters, though. Hopefully, gas service guys know what they need to do to fix it. :-)

CowperKettle

11:50

@V.V. Do gas service guys in mid-Russia speak English? That's cool. (0:

Damkerng T.

14:05

Word of the Day: paramour

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. :-)

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal It's lawyers' word. :D

Damkerng T.

15:18

1

Q: expressions of concentration or pH- "a solution of...." or "a solution with..."?

I wonder if the following expressions are correct. (edited) [A]I prepared a solution such as below: a solution of pH 3 a solution with pH 3 a solution with a pH of 3 a solution of a pH of 3 [B]I prepared a solution such as below: a 3 nM buffer solution a buffer solutio...

I think of you right away, seeing the question! @CowperKettle

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. Seems we have new question after edit(s)!

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Cardinal

:D

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Heh

Damkerng T.

:D

Man_From_India

15:32

What is the meaning of Long may they fail?

Anonymous

Is that the whole sentence? No context?

CowperKettle

15:53

A pigeon will balk at this sentence, and so do I.

> Long may they fail, but they will succeed in the end.

This is better.

Anonymous

Without context I can't tell whether it's optative. It's clear that it's not in @CowperKettle's version.

CowperKettle

What is "optative"?

Ah, I see

> May they fail for a long time. (optative)

Man_From_India

@snailplane i found it it in OMEG under may/might model, while browsing through the book.

Sorry no context :(

But it was showing the use of may, that means wish.

Is that long means for a long time?

CowperKettle

@Man_From_India Then it is optative

@Man_From_India yes

> We took 1.5 ml microtubes and filled 100 µl of the obtained solution per microtube, then added 400 µl of a guanidine hydrochloride/sodium EDTA solution and 10 µl of a dithiothreitol solution per microtube, stirred using an electronic pipette and incubated for 30 min at (37± 1) °C.

Does one need the indefinite articles here?

Man_From_India

16:13

I have very little knowledge about articles, but I think we should drop those a's.

CowperKettle

nods

Man_From_India

16:32

0

Q: A question about using "be going to" and "will" with the present perfect in a question

Have you decided what you are going to do this weekend? Have you decided what you will do this weekend? As you can see, I'm asking using the present perfect tense, but I'm a bit confused about these sentences above. I think that the first form is correct. In spite of this, I want to ...

present-perfect future-tense

Stack Exchange

3

Q: Which word does the adverb 'usually' modify in 'In stories the witch is usually a homely woman'?

In the sentence In stories the witch is usually a homely woman which word does the adverb usually modify?

adverbs sentence-structure linking-verbs

CowperKettle

2

A: What is the document called that parents have to sign so their underage children can take part in something?

In South Africa we call it an Indemnity Form.

Man_From_India

I don't think they both mean exactly the same, as the answer there suggests. I think there is a some difference in implication. I think one is more near in future, and is almost sure to happen. I think it's going to.

Cardinal

16:45

I wanted to post an answer as follows
Question with "Be going to" may ask about previous arranged decision
Question with "will" may ask about opinion

But that answer suddenly came up!

And I withdrew!

<previously arranged decison> or something like that- I am too tired to explain!

V.V.

@Cardinal I think you are right

I agree they are different.

Cardinal

Can you tell me an example of using "where" as the subject of an interrogative sentence?

@V.V. Hi V.V

V.V.

17:03

Can't invent, who,what,which can be.

Cardinal

I see.

V.V.

What made you think so?

Cardinal

Just curiosity

I was reviewing.

> Where hit the bullet?

Just came into my mind.

V.V.

Where did it hit?

In your version "the bullet " is the subject.

Cardinal

17:20

I see. I agree with you.

CowperKettle

18:00

Good night folks

Damkerng T.

18:30

I might've spent too much time thinking about English, but lately I feel like asking about the difference between be going to and will is somewhat like asking about the difference between Hi and Hello.

I mean, the difference may be real, but to some speakers, the difference may not be that important.

One big difference between the two differences is the difference between Hi and Hello is not in grammar books (AFAIK), or taught by TEFL.

Anonymous

19:06

@Cardinal It's hard to come up with a sentence with where in subject position.

Anonymous

Where is not a pronoun.

user62015

Hi @snailplane

@Cardinal hi

Cardinal

@snailplane Thank you.

@user62015 Heloow o/

Anonymous

Hello! :-)

user62015

I have 3 quick questions, could you help me?

Anonymous

19:16

Sure. I'm going to comment on Cardinal's question too, at the same time.

Cardinal

:-)

user62015

Thanks.

(A) I ran / (B) fast and /(C)I could catch the bus. /(D) no error

Answer says C

Anonymous

@Cardinal This is a nice example, and as V.V. pointed out, the bullet would be the subject. But you need do-support: Where did the bullet hit?

Cardinal

nods

Anonymous

@user62015 They are testing to see if you know that could doesn't necessarily work as the past tense form of can, expressing capability in the past. Instead, they want you to say was able to.

user62015

19:20

@snailplane So I caught the bus

Okay.

Thanks. Next question

(A) I want / (B) that you should / (C) work hard. / (D)no error

I think, we need to remove that

Anonymous

Could in that sense works in the negative, but not affirmatively: I ran fast but I couldn't catch the bus is fine, but *I ran fast and I could catch the bus does not work. I ran fast and I was able to catch the bus is fine.

Anonymous

@user62015 That's tricky, because there are multiple ways you could fix the sentence. Let me give a couple examples:

Anonymous

> I think that you should work hard.

Anonymous

> I want you to work hard.

Anonymous

I bet they want you to use think instead of want.

user62015

19:23

I understood that

Anonymous

But I can't be sure.

user62015

(A) I suggest / (B) you to see / (C) a doctor. / (D) no error

I think, we need to use that after suggest, what do you say?

Anonymous

Yes, that would work if you removed to.

Anonymous

> I suggest (that) you see a doctor.

Anonymous

This sentence works with or without that.

Cardinal

19:26

WoW, Someone else was thinking about wh-questions. What a coincidence! I mean I was thinking about constructing an interrogative question with "where" acting as the subject asn someone else have asked this question:

user62015

Thank you so much. I appreciate your help.

Cardinal

@snailplane That (suggest) is a performative verb, isn't it?

Anonymous

@Cardinal Sure, you could say that. By uttering I suggest, you are actually suggesting.

Anonymous

In the same way, if you say Welcome! you are actually performing the act of welcoming.

Anonymous

So those are performative utterances.

Anonymous

19:27

Suggest and recommend are verbs that work performatively.

Cardinal

I see, I haven't get this definition, performatives, completely.

Anonymous

The idea is that by saying the sentence, you perform the action described by the sentence.

Anonymous

I apologize.

Cardinal

So, usually after performative we use bare infinitives?

Anonymous

When you say I apologize, you are performing the action of apologizing.

Cardinal

19:29

@snailplane I see.

Anonymous

@Cardinal No; "I don't have time right now, but I promise to answer your question later."

Anonymous

Here, promise takes a to-infinitival complement.

Cardinal

@snailplane Sure

Anonymous

But it is being used performatively. When the speaker says I promise, they are performing the act of promising.

Cardinal

Oh, I should've say simple present. I am sorry for that!

I meant simple present

Anonymous

19:31

"I admit that you've got a point." ← Performative admit takes a finite clausal complement.

Cardinal

OK, I don't want to take your time <I'm serious>

It seems I need to learn a lot

Anonymous

"I admit that you were right all along." ← That complement may be in the past, not just simple present.

Anonymous

Performative verbs don't take a specific kind of complement. It depends on the verb.

Anonymous

Think of "performative" as being more of a semantic class, a matter of meaning rather than grammar.

Anonymous

@Cardinal I enjoy chatting, so please don't worry :-)

Anonymous

19:34

I am about to go away from the keyboard for a bit, but please feel free to ask things if you'd like.

Cardinal

@snailplane If that's the case, so why a specific category has been devoted to them.

Anonymous

@Cardinal Verbs have many properties other than complementation.

Anonymous

"Performatives" are part of Speech Act Theory.

2

Anonymous

The idea goes back to J. L. Austin's How to Do Things with Words.

Cardinal

I see.

I got familiar with this definition in CAGIU:
https://books.google.com/books?id=YZAoAAAAQBAJ&lpg=PR8&dq=cambridge%20advanced%20grammar%20in%20use&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q=cambridge%20advanced%20grammar%20in%20use&f=false

Unit one, section D

Thank you, now I have a deeper insight to the matter.

Damkerng T.

19:46

@snailplane It could work in a sentence like Where doesn't matter.

(I think)

@Cardinal The book mentions the use of the simple present with performative verbs, too! Nice!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ah, I see two ways to interpret that:

Anonymous

> Alice: Where's the remote?
> Bob: "Where" doesn't matter.

Anonymous

or

Anonymous

> Alice: Where's the remote?

Anonymous

> Bob: Where ~~it is~~ doesn't matter.

Damkerng T.

19:55

I think it's easier to understand it as in the first dialogue.

Anonymous

If we pretend there are quotes there, it's not really the subject, the same way it isn't the subject in "Where is not a pronoun."

Anonymous

Due to the use–mention distinction.

Anonymous

21:41

I need to look some things up on that where example.

Transcript for