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05:00 - 15:0015:00 - 21:00

05:21
I see. I did't want to insult any culture. It was my personal veiw.
In my normal, in fact
 
2 hours later…
07:40
@snailplane Oh, I didn't know its name!
@JasperLoy Ah, video removed. Anyway, welcome back!
07:56
@CowperKettle Here's a double boat! :P
08:07
@Cardinal A couple of million Thais are Muslims. ;-)
08:27
@ColleenV There must be something about mustard. Some people use it in an uncommon way, like in the clip below!
08:41
Word of the Day: splurge
user227867
@DamkerngT. Yeah, I did not like the video, so I deleted it, but I made a new channel and it's here to stay. The link is in my profile now.
@JasperLoy I guess this SE account is new, too, perhaps, because you mentioned that you can't vote in this election.
user227867
@DamkerngT. Yes, it is pretty new, and hopefully here to stay.
Hopefully! :D
Hmm... I see small "Ja" before you name but can't see your avatar in this chat room!
Probably some CSS bug.
user227867
@DamkerngT. I bought the 4 main Nikayas of the Pali canon. Haven't really read them though. Yay!
08:52
@JasperLoy Yay! If they're near, you may read them sooner or later. :D
Welcome, Sustainability Initiative of South Africa! :P
I am the person who handles the team budget (which we collect some money monthly in our office room and buy some biscuits)
so, I am looking for a polite way to ask some senior people in the team to give the money
You have 100 rupees pending for the team budget. Can you please handover 100 rupees to me?
^Does this sounds polite?
Sounds too direct.
ohh, well. then?
09:00
Do they know that you are responsible for collecting the money?
@DamkerngT. Nice!
Okay. Have they shown any sign or made any promise that they will contribute?
@CowperKettle Hee!
Sawasdee khrap!
Ah, I see. You used pending, so they must've already promised.
09:07
Could you please handover the pending 100 rupees, please?
It's a clear message, but it sounds quite direct. I'm sure it doesn't work well in my culture. I'm not sure about your office.
how will you write it in your work environment?
Maybe something like It's a new month again and our biscuit fund needs more money. We're looking forward to your donation this month! With gratitude.
(assuming that the office is not a very serious or formal place)
I think this sounds perfect when the situation where I'm addressing the whole team
(Anyway, I don't think biscuit fund should be a serious matter! :)
09:13
but in this case, I need to address only for 2 individuals
because they have 100 rupees remaining
@CrazyNinja Is it 100 repees a person a month?
No, it depends
but this is not the money we collect monthly. I have to collect that one after 1 week from today
I see. I wouldn't mention the amount if they already know the amount.
this is some remaining money that those 2 people have to give to me
But if they've already donated some, and we need 100 repees more, I guess I'd mention the amount as well.
@CrazyNinja Maybe stating the fact that everyone else but them has already made their donation, and trying to make it sound like just a reminder should work.
09:17
I can see 100 rupees pending from you. Could you please handover it?
Hmm... apparently, asking for money is not my thing.
hehehe....
How about something like: A reminder about our biscuit fund: Our biscuit fund is looking forward to see more money from you! Please feel free to contact me to make your donation any time. Thank you for your donation
Or something even more casual and sounds a little funnier: Our biscuit fund is waiting for your money! Please feel free to contact me to make your donation any time. Thank you in advance.
09:37
nice. Thank you @DamkerngT.
You're welcome!
09:58
Nice answer, but by what authority do you define it "incorrect, in principle" not to backshift given the conditions you mention? If you don't stop, I'll kill you. There we have a future hypothetical and its consequence with no backshifting. Your answer suggests it's incorrect or less correct not to do so. Sometimes we use terms like "correct" in a general way, I know. But I think the wording can be important sometimes. If you don't drop it, I kill you right here. Is there anything incorrect there? — Jim Reynolds 1 min ago
Am I being ridiculous?
In other words, being Jim?
@JimReynolds Probably not. At least I see the good intention for learners.
In any case, saying that we backshift I will do something to I do something is odd to me.
It conflates two important concepts together, tense and modality.
Yaaaay!
Those things can be tricky to disconflagerate!
10:23
I translated the first stanza. Now I have a fully rhyming translation..
..whew
Afternoon, @JimReynolds!
> When our riflemen pass by,
One, two, three
Girls attend with shining eyes,
One, two, three
Onward, guys, don't look behind you
Let no fear or sorrow bind you,
One, two, one, two, one, two, three
See the captain riding first
One, two, three
He will lead us through the worst
One, two, three
On his charger brisk and dusty,
What a gallant chap and trusty!
One, two, one, two, one, two, three
(first two stanzas)
> Captain, tell us what's the matter
One, two, three
Where did all our money scatter?
One, two, three
There's no bread and there's no butter
All we've had is air and water -
One day, two days, one, two, three.
When you look us in the eye
One, two, three,
We shall see through any lie
One, two, three,
Tell us, tell us, what's the matter
Why we have the empty platters -
One, two, one, two, one, two, three
(second two stanzas)
> In the tavern yesterday,
One, two, three
Did you come to drink and play?
One, two, three
We all know you're gipsy lover
Spill it cap, let's get it over
One, two, one, two, one, two, three
Mark it captains, be devoted
One, two, three
Lest you want to be demoted
One, two, three
Even very cunning guys
Cannot hide from solders' eyes
One, two, one, two, one, two, three
(final two stanzas)
Oh, but it's hard to translate such a jolly song.
"One, two, three" is "Raz, Dva, Tri", it is easily discernible. (0:
@CowperKettle Nice!
@DamkerngT. I've had much fun translating it. (0:
Ukrainian is like Russian, but a bit "mangled", and this creates such a nice feeling in poetry and music. I mean when you listen to it and finally manage to understand the meaning of this or other word.
It sound like Russian baby-talk, as if someone changed the words this way.
I failed to translate a lot of good things there.
It's not "Lest you want to be demoted", it is "Lest your shoulder marks come a-flying"
Which means the same, but is much more figurative
But it's impossible for me to carry that across into English.
It's not shoulder marks even, but "collar", "Lest your collars come a-flying". I discussed this with a Ukrainian friend and we realized that in 1915 rankings in Austro-Hungary were placed not on the shoulder marks, but on collar marks.
10:45
@CowperKettle I think we wear insignias on both places, generally. (How long haven't I worn my uniform!)
@DamkerngT. I never served in the army. Have you?
Technically, I have, but I've never been in any real battle.
That goes without saying, but you served for a year or half-a-year, yes? In Russia it is a year now.
In Russia all people try not to get recruited, because it's quite bad in the army.
@CowperKettle I took another route. Let's see what it's called in English.
@DamkerngT. "Alternative service", in hospitals and construction teams? We have this, but this is very under-developed.
10:49
@CowperKettle Ah, it's called Reserved Affairs Center.
Territorial defence students (Thai: นักศึกษาวิชาทหาร; rtgs: nak sueksa wicha thahan) are a military youth organization in Thailand under control of the Royal Thai Army. == History == Prior to World War II the Yuwachon Thahan (or "junior soldiers", Thai: ยุวชนทหาร) were established in 1934 by Field Marshal Luang Pibulsonggram. At the beginning of World War II junior soldiers were sent to fight troops of the Japanese Empire that invaded southern Thailand on 8 December 1941. At the end of the war the junior soldiers were disbanded, but Lieutenant General Luang Chatnakrop (พล.ท. หลวงชาตินักรบ) created...
Yes!
Then I was assigned to the Air Force.
Battlebot
Did you have to live in barracks, and how long?
@JimReynolds LOL
@CowperKettle Just about three weeks.
10:50
Ah, nice!
When I was a student, it was 2 years of obligatory conscription service.
Then it was brought down to 1.5 years.
Nice! I guess they promoted you to some rank as well.
@CowperKettle It's actually optional over here.
@DamkerngT. I never served, due to my eye condition, an eye transplant. But I would have tried hard not to serve in any case.
@CowperKettle Lest you want to be demoted is a great solution. I can't think of a way to make the metaphor fit, or find another metaphor that fits.
10:52
@JimReynolds Thank you!
Hmm... that's tricky. Let's just say that for every man who didn't take any part in this kind of school, it's obligatory.
@CowperKettle nods
In Russia, people pay bribes to evade service.
Oh, same here. :D
SHOCKING!
10:54
Because you can be beaten to death in the army. It's like in a prison, there's little real discipline.
Dedovshchina (Russian: дедовщи́на; IPA: [dʲɪdɐˈfɕːinə]; lit. reign of grandfathers) is the informal practice of initiation (see:hazing) of new junior conscripts, formerly to the Soviet Armed Forces and today to the Russian armed forces, Internal Troops, and (to a much lesser extent) FSB Border Guards, as well as the military forces of certain former Soviet Republics and whole the world. It consists of brutalization by more senior conscripts serving their last year of compulsory military service as well as NCOs and officers. Dedovshchina encompasses a variety of subordinating or humiliating activities...
If you're unlucky, you'll be mangled or killed and nobody will answer for this.
Three years in the defence school was quite rough, but I understand the purpose.
> Many young men are killed or commit suicide every year because of dedovshchina.[2][3] The New York Times reported that in 2006 at least 292 Russian soldiers were killed by dedovshchina
(BTW, we spent only half a day or so every week in the school.)
10:56
Hi brothers :D
Hi, Cardinal!
Is it right to say "when is the last time .... ?"
@CowperKettle That's sad!
10:57
@Cardinal Hmm... I'd say When was the last time ...?
We have compulsory military service, too
@Cardinal I suppose so!
@JimReynolds I had a friend who served in Siberia. He broke a car's front window inadvertently while on service. He was told by his superior to go AWOL and steal a replacement.
And senior soldiers regularly used to send junior soldiers to beg for money or to get illegal drugs.
@DamkerngT. Is "is" wrong" ?
@Cardinal I'm reluctant to say it's wrong, but I know I wouldn't use it.
11:02
@DamkerngT. I feel the same, I 'm just wanna know that.
@CowperKettle That sort of thing is kinda dark!
The worst division is border guard, thanks to Afganistan, Pakistan, and Iraq and PKK
Anyway, three weeks in service was quite lovely, mostly because we'd already gotten our ranks, so we were treated quite differently from when we had been just "students".
Life and Death is 50-50
@Cardinal nods -- That sounds too real, even. It's a bit sad that we need military almost everywhere in the world.
11:07
@Cardinal Same was for Russian solders who manned the post-Soviet borders with Afghanistan after 1991 and until about 2001
@DamkerngT. Somehow, I don't think France and Swiss have such problems ! :D
@Cardinal :D
A small Russian regimen held off a large force from Afghanistan that wanted to invade in 1993
These are those who remained alive
Out of 48, 25 died.
The mujaheedin wanted to invade Tajikistan
Probably to smuggle drugs, really.
11:11
@CowperKettle The interesting point is that the border line along Afganistan is much more secure than Pakistan. There are two different types of threat. In Afganistan they are mostly smugglers, but in Pakistan there are terorists with religious intentions.
However, I think CCCP is the reason of all this. They invade Afganistan
Afgan was on the right track before engaging in a war between west and east
Taliban is founded by USA and Berzinsky
Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski (/ˈzbɪɡnjɛv bʒɛˈʒɪnski/ ZBIG-nyev bzheh-ZHIN-skee; Polish: Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzeziński [ˈzbʲiɡɲɛf kaˈʑimʲɛʂ bʐɛˈʑiɲskʲi] Polish pronunciation ; born March 28, 1928) is a Polish-American political scientist and geostrategist, who served as a counselor to President Lyndon B. Johnson from 1966–68 and was President Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor from 1977–81. Brzezinski belongs to the realist school of international relations, standing in the geopolitical tradition of Halford Mackinder and Nicholas J. Spykman. Major foreign policy events during his term of...
In fact, East and West destroyed the Middle-East so as to reach to their ambitions
It is not acceptable.
@Cardinal Nah, nobody specifically created the Taliban. It was the side effect of leaky funding by the US of the war against the USSR.
There arose a network of madrassas in the border regions of Pakistan. These regions were hard to control from the start, so it's kind of started brewing there.
Yes, I couldn't edit it; US supported that. I meant Al-Aqaeda
The Taliban were like Russian Bolsheviks, they wanted to radically return Afghanistan to "pure" Islam.
But there's so many enthnicities in Afghanistan that it was impossible, especially since the Taliban were mainly Pashto
A powerful tool for opposing with communists ?!
The Taliban only arose after the USSR went away.
11:23
PSA: Room topics alert. Chatting about any stuff in general should be fine, but trying to avoid getting too deep into the topic is a good idea.
@CowperKettle I see
Good morning y'all. It's only 6:30 AM here so much too early to talk about the Middle East. I loved your song translation @CowperKettle
Good morning!
I think it must be challenging to capture the rhythm of that type of song in a different language
@ColleenV Good morning
11:27
nods -- Translating lyrics for meaning is hard enough already. Trying to keep the rhythm and rhymes is much harder!
@ColleenV Thank you, Colleen! Good morning!
The video of some guy putting mustard in his water bottle is more my speed before my first cup of coffee :)
:D
It must be his secret technique! :D
You have to wonder what he wanted to put mustard on that he didn't want to carry to the station.
I still can't figure out why he put mustard in his water! :)
11:36
I can't remember if I shared this link on Lipograms with y'all - I found it quite impressive: phrontistery.info/lipogram.html
The author completely avoids the letter e
for paragraphs and paragraphs. That's tough to do in English
Whoa! IIRC, e is the most frequently used letter in English!
BTW, I think it's funny that the ad on the page 'A Loquacious Location of Lipograms' is by Lufthansa. Not sure if it's intentional. :-)
Oh that's an interesting coincidence. I don't see that one. I don't allow flash to run on most pages so I don't see a lot of ads.
Anyhow I have to get my butt to work (and presumably the rest of me should go along for the ride) Hope the rest of your day is awesome (And sorry if I interrupted your conversation @Cardinal)
11:52
@ColleenV Have an awesome day! :D
@ColleenV you interulted nothing. Have a nice day
12:18
If I write on the document "Variation 1", will that mean "the original document", or will that mean "The document after it has been changed for the first time"?
Initially I translated as "Revision No. 1", but a fellow translator said that in her agency she translated it as "Variation No. 1"
But isn't it the same basically?
Will "Amendment No. 1" look okay?
12:36
Revision 1 is how I normally see it. Or Initial Revision
I mean "Variation" and "Revision" are almost the same, but "Revision No.1" is better because it lets the reader know that the document was changed for the first time.
@ColleenV Thank you! I'll edit it back to "Revision".
Normally my documents have a revision history
Which lists each version starting with 1 and what change was made
nods
Clearly "Variation 1" would mean "the barebones original document"
Variation to me means that you have several equal things that are slightly different from each other
and revision is more sequential
Like "variations on a theme" in music
is several piece of work exploring an idea from different perspectives
but revisions are version 1, version 2, etc
12:41
I think that works also
Version 1
I didn't see you already mentioned that
nods
For some reason I feel revision is more formal
Probably because of versions in software
Another translator said "Amendment 1", but I don't think so.
Revision 1 strikes me as it has already been amended
I mean there is an original file and a reviewed file
So, "Revision 1" would mean that the document is changed for a second time? O_O
12:43
I would call the reviewed version "Revision 1"
@CowperKettle No, I think "Revision 1" means that the document has been changed one time
Ah, nice then!
The original file
The Reviewed file number 1
The Reviewed file number 2
....
The warmest summer ever.
Mean summer temperatures in Yekaterinburg since 1880
August beat 5 all-time records.
It's + 29C now
Last summer, it never was above +26C
It's like Africa here now
WoW,that is really worrying
@CowperKettle Here is 31 , at the moment
My cat is lying in the corridor, near the door where the air draft goes through
12:49
the south of the country is almost 39
@CowperKettle Natural Air Conditioner
We are usually around 38 C in the summer here
at least there is a breeze
Temperature in the south of Iran sometimes reaches to 45 0C
That's just brutal
Every time I think about complaining about the weather, I try to remember what shoveling snow is like :)
I can't really complain in central Texas it gets hot but nowhere near 45
Yes, I think it is even worse in the countries located in the south, KSA, Qatar, ..
and we have maybe one ice storm every 2 years
There are parts of the western US that get very hot because of deserts
12:54
nods
I've only visited as a tourist though, so I enjoyed them
some desert plants are really beautiful
I think I saw a documentary about a desert in Arizona; I am not sure
But, wherever the sate was, the desert was very hot and dry.
There is a lot of interesting land in Arizona - the Grand Canyon, Painted Desert, pine forests, red rock formations
California also has Death Valley
I think that's the hottest place in the US
nods
I got to go right know
12:58
Have nice day
BB
Alright I should stop procrastinating and work :) Catch you later
Anonymous
13:48
@DamkerngT. « guillemets » !
Hello every one!
Anonymous
Hello :-)
Anonymous
Welcome to ELL chat!
Is this room for english beginner like me?
Anonymous
Sure. Although not everyone here is a beginner, beginners are welcome.
Anonymous
13:55
We chat about English, and about other languages as well, and sometimes we go off-topic :-)
Anonymous
If you'd like to practice English here, feel free.
It's very kind of you!
I have a question:
0
Q: "got somebody something" vs "have got somebody something" "got something" vs "have got something"

Ming  WangIn a movie, a man says: I got you a present. Why don't he say: I have got you a present. In another movie, I saw some sentences: Who's got champagne? Huh? I've got champagne. Why don't they say: Who got champagne? Huh? I got champagne. I'm confused by these sente...

I'm confused by 'got something' vs 'have got something'.
Anonymous
If you say "I got you a present", get means 'acquire'. Most likely, it means you bought them something from a store.
Anonymous
Have got is an idiom that means 'have; possess'.
Anonymous
> Like most people, I've got two eyes. = I have two eyes.
14:02
I get it, thank you!
Are you a native english speaker?
Anonymous
I am.
Anonymous
I speak American English.
I'm learning AE
Anonymous
We have a mix of native speakers and learners in this room. :-)
I really hope I can think in English one day like you!
Anonymous
14:06
(Although some second language speakers are so advanced, they might prefer not to be called 'learners'!)
I saw a twitter user whose name is snailplane, is that you?
Anonymous
No, I'm afraid not.
Anonymous
I didn't know there was a Twitter user with that name.
Anonymous
I only use this name on Stack Exchange.
@snailplane Guillemets in guillemets!
Word of the Day: deadbeat
(I just ran into it in a series, and I guessed its meaning wrong, or at least not very precisely.)
14:16
I wonder how long does it take to be capable of thinking in second language.
If you refer to someone as a deadbeat, you are criticizing them because they try to avoid paying their debts
@MingWang Probably not very long. The question is, though, is that second language the same as the second language other people use? :-)
@MingWang Yes, but I hadn't heard it before.
Anonymous
I think it might be a little more complex than that, too. For example, if you study a technical field in English, I imagine it might be easier to think about that topic in English than your native language, but the opposite might be true of another topic!
(Sorry about the edit. We haven't talked before. So maybe you can't guess my typos, :-)
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. I wonder where the word comes from.
BTW, welcome to the room, @MingWang!
@snailplane I have no idea! :D
14:20
Hi all. I am in class again, and a question just formed in my mind. Is OK used to move a conversation to a new phase. What about for changing the topic of the conversation. I know we can use all right and so to do that, but I am not so sure. I may not be anle to answer your comments on my question at the moment, if you do me a favor and post any, of course.
But thank you in advance.
@D
@DamkerngT. Thank you
@snailplane I think you're right!
Anonymous
@Avicenna I suppose it could be :-)
@DamkerngT. I don't understand what 'The question is, though, is that second language the same as the second language other people use?" means.
@MingWang Maybe it's easier if I quoted it properly, like this: The question is, though, ”Is that second language the same as the second language other people use?"
I'm a slow typist, so I usually keep my sentences short, and even so, I have lots of typos, unintentionally omitted words, etc.
14:24
not the same
nods -- I guess it's pretty unlikely.
Anonymous
The version of Japanese I think or speak is not the same as that of a native speaker.
@snailplane You mean that our thought always relys on the language by which we learn the thing we are talking about?
Anonymous
But! In consolation, I might point out that everyone has their own personal version of the language(s) they speak :-)
Anonymous
@MingWang I think that tends to be true.
14:31
I tried to think in english, but vocabulary is always a barrier for me. I need to learn so many trivial words.
@MingWang Simple words are more difficult, right?! :-)
You know me so well!
'Cause we're in the same boat! :-)
Into the room will come a unicorn is really subject–dependent inversion. In this example, the subject a unicorn has switched places with into the room, a dependent of the verb; the subject hasn't actually switched places with the verb. See The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, starting on page 1385. — snailplane 22 mins ago
Thanks for the comment! @snailplane
14:46
I am wondering whether or not we think by using languages?
We may not think only by using languages.Maybe it partly relies on language.
Good evening all! (0:
@MingWang Try the software called Anki
I used Anki last month
How did you find it?
I mean, did it help you?
It's a good software ,but maybe it doesn't suit for me.
14:51
Did you try it consistently over a month, each day?
I've been using it for 50 days, and missed about 10 days.
Now I'm using an online markdown blog consistently instead of using Anki. I prefer customizing a learning software for myselft. :-)
> - How to start your own business?
- You need a capital. A small one will do: a starting capital.
- But where do I get a starting capital?
- You need a pistol. A small one will do: a starting pistol.
@CowperKettle How do you treat words that have several definitions and usages ?
@Cardinal I use commas
LoL
I meant, do you put all the definitions in Anki?
14:57
"All"? No, I only put the definitions I need.
I'll try to translate this.
@CowperKettle Ugh!
@DamkerngT. It's a Russian joke from the early 1990s
@CowperKettle I see, but a learner (like me) may need to all of them
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