Language Overflow

Kurzd

00:00

bookmarks the article

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I can now! (I just registered with the site.)

@snailboat I find it curious that the article has the the typewriter font both in plain and in italic. Thanks for the article, BTW!

Anonymous

00:43

I've always thought that typeface was odd.

Anonymous

It looks like the sort of writing that should dot its i's with hearts.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

05:41

@Araucaria linguistics.stackexchange.com/q/17316/2081

CowperKettle

07:59

Always look on the bright side of life with subs

►

I turned on the automatic subtitles.. they are weird

It seems like music makes it much harder to discern the words.

Damkerng T.

09:21

0

Q: How to explain the word "shadow "as a noun?

We often say that the name of a person, place or thing is called noun. So, in which category, we include "shadow" as a noun. Though it is neither a place nor a thing or person.

nouns

If a "thing" has to be only an object or an item that we can touch or see, how can we tell people to "do the right thing"? — Damkerng T. 1 min ago

I know that defining noun as "a person, place or thing" is not very rigor, but I don't think it's that bad.

This makes me wonder who first defined noun this way. :-)

Maybe it's from another language?

Anonymous

It's backwards.

Anonymous

Most nouns refer to people, places, or things.

Anonymous

So the part of speech which most typically refers to those things is the category you probably want to call the 'noun' category.

Anonymous

In other words, we don't throw away 'a person, place, or thing'. We just change the way we use it.

Anonymous

You can identify natural classes of words by their shared morphological and syntactic characteristics.

Anonymous

09:31

Once you've identified a class, you can use semantic criteria like that to help with labeling.

Damkerng T.

It's interesting that it's "people", then "places", and then "things".

In Thai (classical) grammar, it's "humans", "animals", and then "things". :-)

(In Thai, "things" sounds more like "tangible things" than in English.)

Anonymous

The definition in English is vague enough that people think they can stretch thing to include, well, everything!

Anonymous

(Every thing :-)

Damkerng T.

I think so!

English as lots of "thing"s like something, anything, and of course, everything!

Anonymous

Yes! Determiner-noun compounds.

Damkerng T.

09:37

To be more specific, the typical word we used for "things" in Thai grammar (for "humans, animals, and things") sound more like "stuff-things". If we chop that "stuff" part off, the remaining "things" can be as abstract as "thing" in English.

(I used "used" because I'm not very sure about the current Thai grammar we teach in school nowadays. Last I heard, it virtually does not exist!)

CowperKettle

Good afternoon! Thanks for suggesting my "I hate red" for reading, Dam! (0:

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I really like that question (and that answer)! :-)

> For nearly all theories and nearly all dictionaries, noun, verb, adjective, and adverb will be among them, these being terms that have a history going back to the grammar of Classical Latin and Classical Greek some 2,000 years ago, but they are apparently applicable to almost all human languages.

> CGEL, p.22

Maybe the well-known definition of noun was from Greek or Latin.

IͶΔ

Hmm, anybody missed me?

Damkerng T.

I did, I did!

IͶΔ

09:52

\o/

Damkerng T.

> books.google.com/books?id=68MDAAAAQAAJ

> Alphabet and Farts of Speech

LOL

@IͶΔ Where have you been?

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Looking for internet

AKA renewing contract with ISP.

Damkerng T.

Did you find it?

Oh, I see!

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Not sure, what does it look like?

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ It looks like something that mostly works, I suppose. :D

Ah, Latin has Noun-Substantive and Noun-Adjective!

IͶΔ

09:57

@DamkerngT. Oh, that went into my best typoes basket.

Damkerng T.

> The Noun-Substantive is the name of any thing, as, magister, a master.

@IͶΔ Hehe! Or best OCR errors!

Oh, Latin doesn't have articles!

IͶΔ

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ What does it have then?

. . . that confuses learners

Damkerng T.

> We are left to infer from the meaning of a sentence, whether the writer makes a particular reference to an object or does not ; ...

Native speakers of Latin might have a hard time learning English! :P

Anonymous

10:16

@DamkerngT. Well, they didn't consider adjectives a separate part of speech.

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

Anonymous

They inflected like nouns (substantives), so they considered them a subclass.

IͶΔ

Damkerng T.

That's ... that's ... that would've been nice!

Oh, it's Titanic II!

I've heard that they're going to build it.

Hmm... does this sentence look grammatical to you?

> "the film runs for an approximate two hours"

> ell.stackexchange.com/a/87353/3281

I know we can say things like "another two hours", but "an approximate two hours"?

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. But films don't have feet!

Damkerng T.

10:22

Still, they can run!

IͶΔ

O_O

This world is hella weird

@DamkerngT. Yeah, why not?

Damkerng T.

I don't know. It sounds weird to me.

If we can remove any adjective without changing the syntax of a sentence, which I think we can, "the film runs for a two hours" would sound ungrammatical.

IͶΔ

10:40

Just changed avatar and username.

My username's are gonna be consistent with my avatars from now on.

OK dang, I totally don't remember me now.

PhMgBr seems like someone else.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. No, adjectives can be complements:

Anonymous

> She got angry.

Anonymous

> *She got.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ah, right!

CowperKettle

Hi, @PhMgBr!

PhMgBr

10:51

Welcome to LO @PhMgBr!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think people would probably say approximately two hours.

CowperKettle

I've just learned that the human body makes 400 grams of acetic acid per day, enough to prepare 8 liters of vinegar.

PhMgBr

@CowperKettle Also that DNA is 2 meters long?

CowperKettle

@PhMgBr I knew that.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Suddenly, I think of Jupiter Ascending. The rejuvenation potion is made from humans!

CowperKettle

10:53

@PhMgBr - does "Ph" stand for "phenol"?

Or "phenyl"?

Damkerng T.

@PhMgBr Who are you?

CowperKettle

Phenyl Magnesium Bromine? O_o

Phenylmagnesium bromide

Phenylmagnesium bromide, with the simplified formula C 6H 5MgBr, is a magnesium-containing organometallic compound. It is commercially available as a solution in diethyl ether or tetrahydrofuran (THF). Phenylmagnesium bromide is a Grignard reagent. It is often used as a synthetic equivalent for the phenyl "Ph−" synthon. == Preparation == Phenylmagnesium bromide is commercially available as solutions of diethyl ether or THF. Laboratory preparation involves treating bromobenzene with magnesium metal, usually in the form of turnings. A small amount of iodine may be used to activate the magnesium...

"bromide"

PhMgBr

Grignard

CowperKettle

Yay! I knew enough to spot the phenyl ring.

PhMgBr

Such an in-your-face chemical

@CowperKettle \o/

Literally,

it's just like "in your face, acid"

CowperKettle

10:57

Acid?

PhMgBr

Yeah, it's a strong base

CowperKettle

It is a strong base.

Why then "acid"?

Damkerng T.

We use lowercase for names more and more often.

"acid" makes me think of Angelina Jolie.

Her handle in Hackers was Acid Burn.

CowperKettle

nods

PhMgBr

@DamkerngT. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

CowperKettle

11:06

If one pours ethanol in a rusty copper kettle, will it evolve some aldehyde?

PhMgBr

@CowperKettle Not a rusty one.

You need to come up with better copper than that.

CowperKettle

Why? A rusty copper kettle is basically copper oxide

PhMgBr

Oh wait, hmm

Yeah, some aldehyde will be formed.

CowperKettle

Especially if we heat the kettle.

PhMgBr

Yeah.

CowperKettle

11:16

1. "Now we go to the bathroom, young man, to wash all this atmosphere off you"

2. "But mom!"

3. "What "mom?""

4. Do you want to get people?

I'm not sure how to properly translate the fourth cut.

Damkerng T.

LOL

I think you did it perfectly. :-)

CowperKettle

(0:

PhMgBr

11:48

V.V.

12:37

First I thought of "another chemical ", then tried to find MAR. But in vain. Now I see what's going on.

Good afternoon, Damkerng!

user62015

12:53

@V.V. Hi!

Damkerng T.

13:18

Good afternoon!

V.V.

How did you celebrate (I understood I missed something important )

Then I read about New Year in April and some traditions.

Is there another calendar or is it the same year (2016)?

Starting to disappear...

Damkerng T.

@V.V. Depending on whether you're young or not. :-)

@V.V. Thais use the Buddhist calendar. You can add 543 to an AD year to get the BE year. For example, 2016 AD = 2016+543 = 2559 BE.

Traditionally, we would write 2559 in Thai as well, like this: ๒๕๕๙

For many people, Songkran (Thai New Year) is the time they will come back home in various parts of Thailand. (Lots of people left their hometowns to work in Bangkok.)

It's a family time. It's a peaceful time. It's also a fun time, especially if you're young. We have the custom of "throwing water" over here. It's really fun. :D

^For young people. :-)

^For less young people. :-)

johnchae

15:04

Hey guys

CowperKettle

15:38

a butterfly got a wing transplant in Yekaterinburg O_o

Damkerng T.

15:57

Very heartwarming!

@johnchae Hi! @johnchae

Ilan

16:59

@DamkerngT.

yesterday it was "I'll be happy to see him again if he's got another problem which worth checking"

I told you about "exam"... it was near

Damkerng T.

Exam what?

PhMgBr

@Ilan Whoa, what a punchline.

Ilan

if there are any problem

Damkerng T.

I don't know what you meant by "exam".

PhMgBr

Problems with what?

Ilan

17:03

examination

I mean

Damkerng T.

What examination?

Ilan

now it does not matter :)

Damkerng T.

shrug

Ilan

he said "worth checking"

:)))

@PhMgBr I've asked about some 2 sec mp3 decoding

it has solved

PhMgBr

2 seconds!

Ilan

17:05

(or has been solved)

Damkerng T.

Good for you.

PhMgBr

That's like, 2000 milliseconds! Mind blown

Ilan

yep

spent a lot of time on it

Damkerng T.

It sounds like it was something important to you.

Ilan

it was important to understand

I am struggling with spoken English

so I record a lot - I mean any conversation

Damkerng T.

17:08

FWIW, I think it's better to try clips that worth it.

Ilan

sometimes in a train... this is why I do not know the context

Damkerng T.

Otherwise, it's going to be an ear examination rather than English listening practice.

Ilan

clips do not help at all

Damkerng T.

Because?

Ilan

real life speech is much complicated

Damkerng T.

17:10

Nope

Ilan

I can understand 90 per cent on youtube and 10% in real conversation

Damkerng T.

You are free to think that. But I wouldn't agree with your idea.

Ilan

:)

I am in the English speaking area

not in youtube

:))

Damkerng T.

I mean, I'd insist on the same idea, no matter what language it is.

Ilan

and as you can see - noise and pronunciation differ

PhMgBr

17:11

@Ilan since I don't have anyone else to talk to, I practiced (and practice) speaking by speaking to myself.

Damkerng T.

But your recorded speech is much worse than most real environments.

PhMgBr

And I'm not that crazy yet

Ilan

nope

the only "good" English is limited to London

Damkerng T.

As I said, you're free to believe what you want to believe.

Ilan

other areas have their own accent

Damkerng T.

17:12

Hah!

All other English accents are bad?

Ilan

I am in the native speaking surrounding

not in the "youtube" self teaching room

$)

Damkerng T.

And that makes you better?

Ilan

and there is nothing to compare

PhMgBr

But it's not hard, I'm telling you!

Damkerng T.

@PhMgBr Actually, I find face to face communication is much easier.

Ilan

17:14

I mean there no direct correlation between youtube and real life conversations

PhMgBr

Depends.

Are you watching kid's cartoons on YouTube? :P

Ilan

( I need to understand what I am hearing in real life, this is why I've asked for help)

user62015

@DamkerngT. Hi! How are you?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Good, thanks! How are you?

user62015

@DamkerngT. I am fine. Could I send you some questions?

Damkerng T.

17:17

Hmm... you can post them now, but I'd rather do something else right now. :-)

PhMgBr

You could send me some questions, EVEN!

@DamkerngT. Like chat with me? (｡◕‿‿◕｡)

Damkerng T.

Aha! @PhMgBr is in the mood! :D

@PhMgBr ( ＾◡＾)

@PhMgBr Well, actually, I was doing something else before I got pinged here.

user62015

@DamkerngT. Oh! I can understand! @PhMgBr Thanks, I am sending them to you.

18. I ........ you to keep quiet.
(A) beg of (B) beg from
(C) beg (D) beg for
@PhMgBr @DamkerngT. Which option will you pick?

Ilan

beg for

PhMgBr

@user62015 C

@Ilan No, that's ungrammatical

Ilan

17:20

:)

yep

user62015

@PhMgBr Thanks.

20. Health is too important to be ..........
(A) neglected (B) detested
(C) despised (D) discarded
which one? @PhMgBr

PhMgBr

A.

What else would it be?

user62015

But I think, this question is wrong as it should have been "Health is too important to not be neglected" @PhMgBr What you say?

@PhMgBr there?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 That doesn't really work. I'm not sure, but I bet that there must be a similar sentence pattern in your first language (perhaps through translation works in the past).

PhMgBr

Yeah.

Damkerng T.

17:28

Try, "Health is too important to care".

PhMgBr

@user62015 Wait, so you want health to be neglected?

Damkerng T.

Right. That would be the result.

PhMgBr

"Too important to be neglected" means "it's important so you shouldn't neglect it" @User.

user62015

@PhMgBr @DamkerngT. It says health is too important to be neglected. It means it says we should neglect our health.

@PhMgBr I understood now.

Damkerng T.

No, the pattern doesn't work like that. -- Yay!

user62015

17:30

23. Leader said, that he is committed to give a job to all the unemployed.
(A) to the unemployed
(B) to each of the unemployed
(C) any of the unemployed
(D) No improvement
I know the answer it is option c but I think, it should have been to each one of the unemployed.

option b*

PhMgBr

@user62015 No no

Damkerng T.

Wow, that sentence sounds really odd, no matter how you fix it.

user62015

@PhMgBr

PhMgBr

@user62015 "Each of the" doesn't make sense to me.

Also very poorly constructed sentence.

It's ungrammatical too. It should be "The leader said".

Could you give me the email of the author of the book. I . . . erm . . . need to have some words with him.

user62015

@DamkerngT. @PhMgBr I need to understand what what is difference between heading for vs heading to or towards? 25. I knew that they were heading into a
serious disaster.
(A) heading for
(B) heading along
(C) heading towards
(D) No improvement

PhMgBr

17:34

"heading into" sounds a bit wrong.

Damkerng T.

towards sounds like something a Briton may say.

Or perhaps an Indian English speaker.

PhMgBr

C is correct.

Damkerng T.

It's still in use in the US, I suppose, but it's getting used less and less.

PhMgBr

I think you should use "for" when you have a gerund, and "towards"/"to" when you don't. @User

user62015

@PhMgBr @DamkerngT. Okay. But answer says option A any possibility?

PhMgBr

17:36

No.

Just no!

Damkerng T.

In this context, heading towards is a better choice.

user62015

@PhMgBr @DamkerngT. Thanks.

Damkerng T.

A person in their right mind wouldn't want to head for a disaster.

PhMgBr

@DamkerngT. This dude is insane.

Also FLAWLESS

Damkerng T.

:D

PhMgBr

18:57

A maddening vision

LOL

Hullo @Snail

Morning! -ish

Damkerng T.

21:50

> Yesterday, when I was using a printer, it suddenly turned off in the middle of printing. I was surprised and pushed the power button many times, but it never turned on again. I realized that it had broken down. I used it for about four years.

> ell.stackexchange.com/q/87218/3281

All answers seem to prefer the past perfect (to the simple past).

I doubt if it's really necessary. (If we really want to improve it, tense is probably not the first thing, I think.)

> *What or who inspired you to get into coaching?
“I discovered the game as a freshman in high school and fell in love with it. Once I got good enough at it to play in college, I realized the value it had in my life. It paid my way through 4 years that I had no other way to pay. My college coach, Lenny Fant, was a father- figure type guy and his assistant, Benny Hollis was a great teacher of defense. Both influenced me and have served me well.”

> aafansportsandtravel.blogspot.com/2010_01_07_archive.html

The part "Once I got good enough at it to play in college, I realized the value it had in my life. It paid my way through 4 years that I had no other way to pay." is not quite the same as the OP's example because everything is in the simple past.

> I am using the rosemary essential oil in my Castor Oil and deep conditioner (10 drops in the oil and five in the DC). I had to throw out the Ylang Ylang essential oil, as I realized that it had gone bad (I had it for at least 5 years).

> fromshorttolong.com/2012_09_01_archive.html

This one is closer to the OP's example.

"I realized ... had gone bad ... I had it ... 5 years"

"I realized ... had broken down ... I used it ... four years" (OP's)

Exactly, and recently and even yesterday works if these time periods are considered still part of present time (not yet in the past). Recently I've parked in Lot A, but today I parked in Lot B. — AlanCarmack 1 hour ago

Some months ago, I ran into a passage in a book by Leech that "morning" in an afternoon could be considered "present" by some speakers.

This time we've a piece of evidence for "yesterday". :-)

Anonymous

22:44

@DamkerngT. It may not be strictly necessary, but the simple past is a little jarring, maybe?

Anonymous

> I'd been using for about four years at that point.

Anonymous

Peter's answer suggests that broke can be used in Standard English as the past participle of break.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Probably a typo.

@snailboat The OP's example is indeed a bit jarring, but I'm not sure if it's really because of the tense. (I'm still not sure why.)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, that is the generous assumption to make.

Damkerng T.

The essential oil example up there somehow sounds fine to me.

Anonymous

23:01

@DamkerngT. Yesterday I've parked in Lot A, but today I parked in Lot B. ← I think most people would think this sentence is strange.

Anonymous

AlanCarmack's comment doesn't really seem relevant.

Anonymous

. . . as if you've seen her yesterday sounds significantly better to me than I've seen her yesterday.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure about AlanCarmack's comment. How far it can be stretched, and such.

Anonymous

Well, he's said similar things before, so I'm pretty sure his idiolect permits all sorts of utterances mine doesn't.

Damkerng T.

Maybe it works because of as if.

Anonymous

23:04

@DamkerngT. That would be my first guess.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I see! I hadn't seen any of his comments about this issue.

Anonymous

Maybe we should ping @Araucaria again. I mean, since we're talking about conditionals :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, he's had many names . . .

Damkerng T.

We've already done that in your comment! :-)

Anonymous

Most recently he was wyatt.

Damkerng T.

23:06

Oh! I didn't know that.

Anonymous

Really, I don't always pay attention to usernames. The way a user talks and what they choose to say sometimes work better than a username as a fingerprint.

Anonymous

Sometimes people change their names over and over, but it's still usually obvious that it's the same user. It just gets harder to refer to them over time.

Damkerng T.

nods

I still can't remember MAR's current username, BTW!

Anonymous

It's LetterletterLetterletterLetterletter.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

23:08

@PhMgBr Good morning! Ish.

Anonymous

I put a bounty on that question.

Anonymous

I don't mean to say the existing answer is wrong (or that it's right). I just want more eyeballs on it :-)

Anonymous

I think there might be more to say on the subject.

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