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Anonymous
00:54
@Nihilist_Frost It's not false so much as slightly inaccurate. The chōonpu is just that, a symbol, and it's the combination of final /aʜ/ which corresponds to the final -er, not the /ʜ/ by itself. The chōonpu only indicates that /ʜ/.
Anonymous
But yes, most English borrowings into Japanese are done based on an idealized late 19th century British accent.
Anonymous
And of course, as you note, there are non-English loans into Japanese.
Anonymous
Although English makes up the large majority of new loans at this point.
Anonymous
So those two things aside, it does make sense.
Anonymous
@Nihilist_Frost I wouldn't, but you can if you really want to.
03:21
@snailboat If it bothers people, I'll let it slide.
Anonymous
@Nihilist_Frost It hadn't occurred to me that it might bother someone.
I think using chōonpu that way is to transcribe what results from rhotic dropping in BrE.
Anonymous
04:12
@Nihilist_Frost Right, using an a-column katakana followed by the long vowel marker is how the non-rhotic pronunciation of English -er, filtered through Japanese loanword phonology, is indicated in Japanese writing.
Anonymous
It sounds complicated when I put it that way of course, but that's because there are two steps.
Anonymous
First, there's the loan from English into Japanese.
Anonymous
The loan has nothing to do with the long vowel marker.
Anonymous
The second step is how the resulting Japanese is written.
Anonymous
There's a bit of a logical disconnect if you jump straight from -er to the long vowel marker.
Anonymous
04:15
The fact is, the majority of loans from English into Japanese occurred via orthography.
Anonymous
And that is how they continue to occur, for the most part.
Anonymous
When the floodgates opened in the Meiji era, at first a number of loans were made based on sound, specifically from British English pronunciation, but as loans continued, they were made by analogy to that pronunciation. Eventually, most were borrowed via writing, but the convention was established.
Anonymous
Even though Japan has more contact with American English than British English, and even though British English has changed over time, new loans continue to follow the same conventions.
Anonymous
Although there have been some changes in those conventions. Because of the very large volume of loanwords, over the last 120 years five allophones have gone through the process of phonemicization, moving from appearing predictably to unpredictably.
Anonymous
There are always exceptions to these conventions, too. A minority of loans are made via sound.
Anonymous
04:22
Some of these reflect American English pronunciation.
Anonymous
For example, パーリナイ /paʜri nai/ 'party night'
Anonymous
My best guess is that it reflects flapping and coda glottaling (the unreleased final glottal stop being non-phonemic in Japanese).
Anonymous
The conventional Japanese loan would be パーティナイト /paʜti naito/
Morning Everyone!
Anonymous
Good morning!
04:27
what do you think, gift voucher or an flower bouquet?
as the birthday gift
Morning
 
3 hours later…
08:00
@DamkerngT. haha! That was after I calmly explained to.the OP that I was losing patience with them/
@IͶΔ Yes. I think they used to be funnier when we could trust that more of them were real.
One of the funniest I heard about long ago was:
A woman getting a text from her father:
Your Mom and I are going to divorce.
The woman went through complete shock and had tk go hkme from work before she could get a hold of herself and call home.
The intended message was: going to Disney
@CrazyNinja Who is the gift for?
Will you give it in person or by mail or delivery?
08:34
@JimReynolds heheh.. everything has done. gift delivered
:)
@JimReynolds On learning that, she exclaimed: "that's even worse!"
09:29
Haha. I might react that way. Stupid places!
Friends, I feel it's my duty to call your attention to a serious threat to the ELL way of life!
0
Q: Differences between competent and competitive

SuperuserI understand from dictionaries and web research that both terms can mean capable, of a person. Do they tend to carry other important meanings in this sense? Is competent used often enough in daily life that it's useful to learn? Is it particularly formal, colloquial, strong, or literary?

Terrorists have claimed that this question is off-topic.
Basic research, they say.
But this is all the work of politicians and high financiers, you may think..
Not so. In fact, YOU have the power to restore justice!
Since the OP received the answer does it matter?
Good question, but I think so.
Do you agree that it's off-topic? I really won't get excited either way.
Well, you are allowed not to care and attend to other things, certainly.
09:57
I do care.
And I don't agree.And I am fighting the same problem at RSE.
Well, the people who closed it feel that it should be answerable by simply l^king at a dictionary. I disagree.
Don't agree with who? And what's RSE?
My answer was twice upvoted and twice downvoted yesterday and today.
Russian SE?
Here you have a lot of questions.
I would support democracy if everyone wasn't so stupid!
Ha!
10:05
Yes, one in English, the second in Russian
They hardly have a question a day and they close questions
You mean, some people don't answer much, but they love to close questions?
It's normal that people shoud have different points of view though
Yes, it's a usual practice
My point of view, and the wrong point of view.
10:11
Something like that
Even without "mine"
Simply that's wrong without explanation
So take it easy
10:49
@V.V. You.asked me to correct you. I don't understand what you mann: "Even without mine."
But I want to keep talking to you!
 
1 hour later…
12:16
@JimReynolds, first a question or I will forget
He was to write a companion volume,
What's the best choice for "companion "? Second, additional, continuation
Mind, I have bad Internet or no at all, like yesterday.
If I disappear isn't my fault, no offence meant.
@DamkerngT.?
12:57
@V.V. I think we need more information to answer. What do you mean by a "companion volume"? Why isn't "companion volume" itself the best choice? Etc.
@V.V. I wouldn't use any of them. If someone mentioned a companion book/volume of something, I'd think of it as an elaborated complement to some existing work.
Well, I don't have such a term in R
Complement means Addition?
It's almost as if I wrote a book A, and I thought people might not understand my work well or I might feel like I have something more to say, so I wrote another book, B, and named it B: a companion volume of A.
More information, or continuation
Hmm... close, but not quite, IMHO.
If I'm forced to choose anything as a word for companion in this sense, and that word must be in English, I might choose "manual".
But it may loose some senses of "companion" anyway.
13:05
With us more information -additional, explanation -too.or, maybe just the second to make it a couple.
It could be any of those, and that's why it's tricky and the word itself is the best word for itself.
Oh, no! This is almost rude! Why did they have to voice over NFL in Thai audio channel!
DT, it was to be named More Refusals, will that clear anything?
They didn't say anything over Lady Gaga's singing, though.
@V.V. That tilts the sense of "additional" up.
Wow, you did it.
I did it? Yay! :D
13:14
Where's the other consultant? I need confirmation
Watching a rerun of Superbowl, perhaps? :P
We have a proverb :one head is good, two are better
No hope.
Perhaps got offended.
"companion volume" is nice
Good evening all.
13:22
A companion volume is a supplement. Yes.
Ah, supplement is a nice choice of word!
A companion to French Cuisine, could be The Wines of France.
Complement is actually a better description of a companion.
Supplement could suggest that the primary is incomplete.
Argh! My PVR HDD is about to full!
Why do they have to show NFL and Furious Seven at the same time!
13:26
I thought you were a programmer.
Oh, no!
Personal Video Recorder. It's a common term for the part of my set-top box that allows me to record programs onto my HDD.
No, the bot not the model.
The first volume is called "Proposals and Refusals" and the...is called "More Refusals".So "complement "
Just record your favorite team, not the whole game.
13:27
@tchrist I was, and probably still am. :D
Is it a novel?
It's not more accurately a sequel?
@JimReynolds If only that was possible!
Do you want to tell us exactly what these books are?
Jim, it's a yesterday 's short story. You read it.I am polishing
Does anyone here think this question is on-topic:
13:37
No, it's high time to close it. That's why I am asking here.
Hmm... can't paste it.
@snailboat This is how extensive the analogies got: (I was the OP)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Etymology_scriptorium/2016/February#.E3.83.87.E3.83.BC.E3.83.A2.E3.83.B3
No, I'm talking about my question, not yours
I see.
@JimReynolds A nice explanation. I wish V.V. had asked the question on the main site so that this explanation was not lost to posterity.
13:39
0
Q: Differences between competent and competitive

SuperuserI understand from dictionaries and web research that both terms can mean capable, of a person. Do they tend to carry other important meanings in this sense? Is competent used often enough in daily life that it's useful to learn? Is it particularly formal, colloquial, strong, or literary?

I would like it reopened unless people really think it off-topic
It seems that we don't use the before "posterity".
I've never heard V.V.'s complete question
I.don't really know what it is.
We can.say all posterity, all of. But not the. Right, @cop
14:00
@JimReynolds I agree that it's a genuine question, though I wish they added more about the definitions they found and their understanding to the question.
I've already voted to reopen, though.
And everybody else has gone!
Well, I am pretty happy. It's at 4 now! The excitement!!!!
After witnessing the defecation question het reopened today, I'm feeling on the verge of exploding with joy.
het?
Oh GOOD LORD NO!
And too late to edit.
There went any bouyancy in my mood.
14:21
s/bouyancy/flamboyancy/
14:38
> One day, Haroun Al Raschid read
A book wherein the poet said:--
"Where are the kings, and where the rest
Of those who once the world possessed?
"They're gone with all their pomp and show,
They're gone the way that thou shalt go.
What is annoying here, you can't edit or remove your writing.
14:54
That's what defines SE chats, IMO. :D
15:13
My questions are all fixed in my profile. I had a painful experience with my first one (ELU)
15:34
> Yes it can. At the market: "you have fewer items in your hand, you can go before me." means the same as: "Why don't you get in front of me?"
I'd argue that that "go before" isn't exactly the same as "get in front of me", technically, though both sentences would roughly mean the same thing.
16:07
0
Q: The use of " proposition " before the adverb phrase of time

yethuJenny Bishop stopped paying the interest on the pawn ticket in one summer/ one summer. Will I need to put " in " in this sentence? Thank you very much.

This reminds me of my way- question :-)
16:44
@Man_From_India Yes. I remember your (in) this way question!
BTW, good evening!
16:58
@JimReynolds They don't even mean similar things!!!!
17:49
> Some people, were born to sit by a river. Some get struck by lightning. Some have an ear for music. Some are artists. Some swim. Some know buttons. Some know Shakespeare. Some are mothers. And some people, dance.
> (Last line from The Curious Case of Benjamin Button)
@DamkerngT. The book?
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" is a short story written by F. Scott Fitzgerald and first published in Colliers Magazine on May 27, 1922. It was subsequently anthologized in his book Tales of the Jazz Age, which is occasionally published as The Curious Case of Benjamin Button and Other Jazz Age Stories. == Plot == In 1860 Baltimore, Benjamin is born with the physical appearance of a 70-year-old man, already capable of speech. His father Roger invites neighborhood boys to play with him and orders him to play with children's toys, but Benjamin obeys only to please his father. At five, Benjamin...
The movie. Brad Pitt's reading in that scene is beautiful.
Ah.
I never knew it was FS Fitzgerald who wrote it.
The audio is a little too quiet, but it's still a good scene.
This edit is even better: youtube.com/watch?v=RQUdyJAJoAU
18:07
hey. :)
I need help.
:| I have a few doubts.
I posted a few of them as questions on the main site, but i wasn't satisfied with the answers i got.
2
Q: Which tense should I use in "I was talking about … when she started to talk about …"?

lekon chekonI was talking to her about something else when she suddenly started to talk about what he had been up to these days. I was talking to her about something else when she suddenly started to talk about what he was up to these days. I was talking to her about something else when she suddenly starte...

this is the first one. :p
What? -1?
let's rid me of my confusions concerning this first. :p
Let me read it.
18:11
Tense?
Facepalm
The answer is more or less correct, though I wonder if it can really dispel your doubts on those tenses.
Thinks of a cheesy Hollywood-y cliche-y pun thingy
"It's about time"
I'd like to recommend ignoring a few things: backshifting and sequence of tenses.
2
(One could say that they're actually the same thing!)
@DamkerngT. A good beginning for a grammar textbook.
18:14
(0:
Being a lumper, I always find ways to lump things together (and reduce the number of things I have to remember) whenever I can. :D
(BTW, see "lumpers" vs. "splitters")
For the 72684002nd time @Leckon: Real tense talk is complicated. Tense is something you should get right after you've become reasonably fluent in the language, without worrying about it much.
I don't worry about it much.
I'm just tend to go overboard with how pedantic i am at times, and that eventually leads to my curiosity getting the better of me. ._.
When proving that native speakers aren't good grammar teachers, they usually bring tense as an example. Go figure.
Because grammar of tenses is what that exists to explain how native speakers use their tenses, not to dictate it.
18:20
okay.
Other doubts.
I have other doubts as well.
@lekonchekon Language is a big sea of oddity.
There are a billion other things to be curious about. :)
> "I'm not unfaithful, darling. I've plenty of faults but I'm very faithful. You'll be sick of me I'll be so faithful." -- A Farewell to Arms
For instance, why does street language tend to have less complicated vocabulary than academic writing?
O_O
@DamkerngT. No "if"?
O_O
No! :-)
I guess if we do the same (be faithful, even with plenty of faults) with our English, we should get by just fine.
I am filthful. I need to take a shower.
18:25
Oh! @V.V. -- You must like the title of this book! Student Companion to Ernest Hemingway
okay.
Here comes more.

What day does your tests start?
What day does your tests start on?

Could we remove the on word the way we remove the at word when it comes to talking about time?
do your tests
I'm sure snailboat can explain this formally.
And all native speakers around here know this better than me. :-)
As for me, I can only say that either is fine.
sorry. :|
apart from that silly grammatical error i never would've made, had i been a bit more careful.
But I like neither, really.
what day does your flight leave?
18:37
(I wonder if snailboat will say What day does your test start? is ungrammatical.)
@lekonchekon The preps sometimes make subtle but beautiful meaning differences.
i'm pretty sure what day does your test start on isn't grammatically incorrect.
This time, I can't sense any difference.
@lekonchekon nods -- but it does sound like something people might not really say, imho.
(For example, I can always refer to myself as "this person", "one", "this guy", but that's probably not a normal way people do it.)
@lekonchekon Everyone makes mistakes. Those who learn from them surpass.
18:40
i can't sense any difference either.
I just want to know whether you could remove the ON the way you do with AT when it comes to time.

What time does your train leave?
We leave out the at.

I just wonder whether you can do the same with On.
@DamkerngT. This person agrees.
@IͶΔ One has no objection.
._.) okay, i see what you're doing here. xD
I'm just confused as to whether you can use the On the same way you use the At. :p
@lekonchekon I guess ELL must have some questions on that. :D
maybe i'll put it up as a question in a few minutes. :3
maybe that won't be the worst idea in the world. :3
18:44
That would work, too! :-)
@lekonchekon I rarely ask questions.
I search a lot.
i come across a lot of stuff, i wouldn't call it searching, for i don't really look for them.
And i ask a lot of questions. :p
BTW, a social app forced me to enter a verification code on my smartphone today, when I wanted to use it on my iPad. That means, I have to have a smartphone!
For me, that marks the end of an era (and the beginning of a new one at the same time).
Oh.
Here's another one.
I often come across people who leave out on using prepositions when talking about stuff where time plays a role.

"I haven't talked to her a long time* (leaving out the in)
"I played guitar four hours in the morning" (leaving out the for)
Those are fine with me.
18:55
I figured the same.
I'll still look into it though.

Remember the book you asked me to go through a few months ago?
Practical English Usage, or something..
There must be topics there covering how one is to convey stuff concerning time, right?
Back to the smartphone thing. Some years ago they decided (I don't know based on what!) that they would declare the results of the nation-wide test on the web, as opposed to on the boards and newspaper like they had used to. A consequence? A lot of students had to travel an hour or so to a nearest city just to get to an Internet cafe to check their results.
@lekonchekon I think so. looking...
thanks. :')
PEU 451.7
(I assume you have it.)
yes. :3
i'll look for it right away.
Oh, 451.5 answers your first question!
(About dropping on in What date does ...?)
19:04
yup. Found it.
Either is fine i suppose.
I could leave out the ON, or i could not do that. :3
nods :-)
I used to think that the information age can make the social gap smaller.
But as it turned out, the Internet itself became a new gap.
When the gap of Internet access is lessen, a new gap, smartphone, is introduced.
So, the gap is always there. :-(
@Jasper: I already voted to close the question. It's a terrible example from our point of view, since most native speakers wouldn't have any idea what GDT and TLS segments are anyway. But if the OP had asked whether Please put in my coffee sugar was "valid" (or even worse, if he'd asked what was supposed to be put in what), surely everyone else would have closevoted by now. — FumbleFingers 8 mins ago
That's interesting! Now I have to check the background of the author(s).
Understanding the Linux Kernel By Daniel P. Bovet, Marco Cesati
Ahh... they are from the University of Rome.
Dam.
One last thing. :p
Yes?
Will be back in a bit
I just read the part where it says it's normal in American English to leave out the preposition To, when talking about places.

So are all the following sentences grammatically correct?

Name a place you have never been to?
Name a place you have never been?

are both of them correct?
the former seems so much more correct to me. :p
The former's good.
The latter, O_O
Well, such use is understood as the literal meaning of "be", so I'd advise against it.
19:17
yup.
the latter pretty much makes near to no sense at all. ._.
If it's acceptable.
exactly.
I think been to is special.
I'm special too.
:D
But I guess that some speakers may drop to in questions routinely.
(to of have been to)
19:21
Jul 24 '15 at 20:45, by snailboat
> Speaker A: Excuse me, where's the library at?
> Speaker B: Here at Harvard, sir, we do not end a sentence with a preposition.
> Speaker A: Oh, sorry. Where's the library at, asshole?
Oh gawd, I think I haven't quoted anything this much.
I HATE YOU INTERNET CONNECTION
i've read that joke before. x3
@lekonchekon Never gets old.
i could make a similar one.

speaker A- Excuse me, are you the new English teacher?
speaker B- Yes, i are.
speaker A- Okay, then. I suppose i now know all i needed to know. I shall go now.
speaker B- Sure. God blast you.


-.-
it was probably more funny in my head.
@IͶΔ That's a good one.
19:26
@lekonchekon Not bad . . .
. . . for an amateur. :P
About that preposition joke, I've posted a (much) stronger version of it in the room. Search for Georgia and you'll find it.
But how's that similar?
._.) Just when i thought you weren't going to say something bad, you proved me wrong. :|
@DamkerngT. Uh
@lekonchekon I'm not mean.
Often.
Rarely.
Oh, hey, that joke quote (from a TV series) made it to EL&U!
4
Q: Ending a sentence with a preposition?

MatthaeusRecently in an episode of 'House of cards' they bring up the joke "Two freshmen girls are moving into their dorm room together. One of them's from Georgia, one of them's from Connecticut. The girl from Connecticut's helping her mother put up curtains. Girl from Georgia turns to them and says,...

19:28
Seldom.
Mean is okay.
Mean is authentic.
@DamkerngT. Jouote O_o
@IͶΔ A new word!
We should agree on how to pronounce it first.
Where's @Nih when you need him?
Listened to it over a million times. :')
Same here. On compact-cassetes.
I had also several vinyls, like Taste of Honey and Hard Day's Night.
I have some old vinyls, but no player!
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. It doesn't sound ungrammatical, but it makes me wonder what sort of multi-day test the speaker might be taking.
We ditched the vinyls while moving to Yekaterinburg. A pity.
There was a big box of vinyls..
19:40
@snailboat Thanks for the feedback!
"Hard Day's Night" was published in the USSR in 1986. I probably had that exact vinyl.
@CopperKettle Aww --- I guess I now have my grammaphone built in and have gramophone no more. :P
@DamkerngT. (0:
The Soviet tradition was to translate all song titles, and that did look weird.
Good past-midnight, @snailboat!
"A Hard Day's Night" is a very cool song. I don't mind listening to that album all night long. :-)
Because song titles are very idiomatic. The idiomaticity shatters in literal translation.
19:43
Good noon @Snail
BTW, the way they sing Hard Day's Night is curious to me.
I mean, if we pronounce says as "sez" why don't they sing "day's" as "dez" (rather than "dei-uhz" in the song)?
Anonymous
This exact album, "A Taste of Honey", USSR-made. (0:
@snailboat :D
@CopperKettle LOL
And a bit of honeycomb on the backside.
19:47
I've got a real honeycomb "in" my roof!
I recorded that album on a cassete and listened a lot. (0:
@DamkerngT. WIth bees?
Yep!
Thanks to the queen bee!
Will you try to expel them?
I did that once (hiring someone else to do that for me). It was sort of a massacre. I felt a bit bad. And the next year, they came back!
Anonymous
When I was little, we had a Commodore 64, and we had that game for it. So that version of the song is sort of etched into my brain.
19:51
@snailboat It's a great melody!
@snailboat Nice! (0:
Hmm... it's hard to make an /r/ sound having some chocolate it your mouth. (I was trying to say "probably".)
(Or in full sentence: It'd probably be a problem. <-- A choco-tongue-twister of the day!)
20:53
"I had pizza with ranch again today." "Oh, I didn't know that Ranch liked pizza!" -- As they say, "context, context, context!" — Damkerng T. 18 secs ago
 
2 hours later…
22:51
1
Q: "There is no" vs. "There is not"

aung There is no month in calendar that does not have a festival. There is not a month in calendar when there is not a festival. Do the two sentences mentioned above mean the same thing? Why or why not?

How should we explain that when there is weird?
> 1. There is no month in calendar that does not have a festival.
2. There is not a month in calendar when there is not a festival.
The title is about There is no vs. There is not, but that's not the only part that's different in the two sentences.
23:08
1
Q: Is correct tense used?

Monx I have talked with Tom and I found this project very interesting. To add some context : I talked with Tom about one hour ago via phone and he told me about the project.

Before I came in, both answers got a downvote.
It didn't look like both of them are bad answers, so I guess that someone downvoted it because it appeared to be off-topic to them.
Anonymous
23:34
@DamkerngT. I didn't downvote either answer, but if I were to look for reasons why they might be downvoted:
Anonymous
> The sentence is correct. However, "have talked" is redundant. Since "talked" is in past tense, you need not include "have" before "talked".
Anonymous
This doesn't make sense. In have talked, talked is not a past tense form. It's a participial form, and participles are untensed.
Anonymous
They're right that you can say talked or have talked and it won't make much difference, but their explanation doesn't make sense.
Anonymous
What would the explanation look like with an irregular verb like speak?
23:48
@snailboat nods -- I left that answer alone.
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. I agree with your comment on the question.
@snailboat Yay!
Anonymous
If it gets closed as proofreading, we should reopen it.

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