Language Overflow

V.V.

06:25

Morning,My aunt said: 'I'm afraid you may put off your bazaar for this night of Our Lord.' Just to be sure "till morning "? Thanks in case somebody appears.

Anonymous

06:58

@Cardinal I would think it should be dates.

Stack Exchange

08:04

1

Q: ELL logo: (too) similar to a cigarette manufacturer's logo?

Is it just me or is the "flag" at the bottom of the English Language Learners logo very reminiscent of the Marlboro logo? If more users have this association, and given the health implications of smoking, would that be reason enough to adapt the design of the ELL logo? I know that a logo redesig...

Damkerng T.

08:14

@StackExchange Speaking of which, British Airways' planes sports the flag of Thailand on their tails as well. (^_^)

Ah, I shouldn't have added '' planes' as an afterthought. Now it's ungrammatical!

2

Q: What is the common meaning and usage of "get mad"?

I've always understood "to get mad" to mean "to get (very) angry". Checking the expression in online dictionaries, I've found the following definitions: Don't get mad, get even, in Cambridge Dictionary, meaning: something that you say in order to tell someone not to be angry when ano...

phrase-usage american-english british-english

An interesting question.

@V.V. I think it's more like, not do it tonight, maybe later, something like that.

I suppose the bazaar only opened in the evening (and continued open late into the night).

Hmm... CliffsNotes says "One evening she asks him if he plans to go to a bazaar (a fair organized, probably by a church, to raise money for charity) called Araby."

Maybe it opened whole day.

Oh, and I thought Ulysses was written by Homer!

Anonymous

09:10

Homer's work is usually called The Odyssey in English.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ooh, really? :-)

Deo

Good day eeryone!

Damkerng T.

09:26

@Deo Hi!

@snailplane The resemblance is striking, I'd say. (^_^)

Anonymous

Ooh!

Damkerng T.

theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2016/jan/13/…

This is a bit discouraging.

(But I downloaded Ulysses anyway. :-)

Anonymous

Were you planning on reading Ulysses?

Damkerng T.

@snailplane His prose in Araby makes me curious and want to read more of his.

So I guess I'll take at least a few dabs at his Ulysses. :D

Oh, it's Latin all over the book!

> Having completed work on Ulysses, Joyce was so exhausted that he did not write a line of prose for a year.

Hehe!

@snailplane I wonder whether you like it or not. :-) (skip this if it's too personal)

Deo

09:42

I've heard Ulysses is hard to read.

Damkerng T.

Well, I still don't know the meaning of the second paragraph: Introibo ad altare Dei. :-)

Deo

09:54

Try to get Ulysses version with comments.

Damkerng T.

Hehe! Good idea, actually. :D

BTW, this is interesting: smithsonianmag.com/history/…

> “Lincoln’s voice, as far as period descriptions go, was a little shriller, a little higher,” says Holzer.

Hmm... I don't know how to pronounce in this genre fluidly. Apparently, I can't make a transition from /s/ or /z/ to /ʒ/ without a short pause.

It's easier when it's /t/ to /ʒ/.

Ah, I see. /t/ is already a stop.

V.V.

@DamkerngT. Thanks, Joyce is very difficult reading. Even in translation. I believe there's no. Thai translation.

Damkerng T.

@V.V. Maybe. I don't know. I haven't checked.

There is at least a translation of his Dubliners.

V.V.

I am just interested how western culture penetrates into eastern. How translating works.

Damkerng T.

10:09

LOL -- A nickname of the Bangkok International Book Fair by some bookworms over here is "the Great Money Losing Festival". :)

V.V.

Your Latin phrase" I will come before God's altar "

Damkerng T.

@V.V. AFAICT, some translations are really good, some are okay, some are not so good.

@V.V. Thanks!

V.V.

And I can't find "retreat " in a convent. A meaning should be connected with religion.

Perhaps praying in solitude.

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. It's fine. BA is the organisation, and the plane is associated with it. Some might quibble about the possessive form, but even that's ok.

Damkerng T.

@Lawrence But I should've changed sports to sport, I think. Thanks for the comment and consolation, though.

Deo

10:26

What is best cure for boredom?

*or should it be "from"?..

Damkerng T.

I guess I'll use of.

Do something you love, I think. :-)

Deo

Example from Google: "cure for cancer". So I guess it's "for" :)

@DamkerngT. But I can't play board games on my work :)

Damkerng T.

@Deo Looks like you're right. :)

@Deo Then make your work something you love. :D

Deo

@DamkerngT. Well, I do like programming.

But I don't have any good tasks right now

Damkerng T.

10:42

Aww...

Man_From_India

12:32

Strange use of being I heard yesterday in a dialogue from National treasure movie.

> The last time it was here, it was being signed.

Or did I misheard Nicholas Cage?

Another strange construction. I know this is not grammatical, but it's very strange to find that this is used by a native speaker.

> I remember an American guy once telling something like "...all the people I loved's opinions...", so why not "I lived at a friend I hadn't seen for three years' home"? :D Perhaps a bit too far-fetched. (From an answer of Wordreference Forum)

V.V.

12:45

Interesting examples.

Man_From_India

Most probably non standard and dialectical.

He added further

> Sure, a native American speaker from Dallas, Georgia. I actually think the sentence was a bit longer, like "all the people I cared about and loved's opinions". Anyway!

V.V.

It should be via "of",right?

Man_From_India

@V.V. yes.

I haven't came cross such usage ever.

Searching it is really tough, I guess.

V.V.

Oh, a progress! I am starting to understand something...

Man_From_India

Good. What's that?

Damkerng T.

13:18

@Man_From_India I don't think so. It sounds quite all right.

At least in my idea.

Man_From_India

Grammatically, yes it's correct. But I think we don't use it that often. We simple say it was signed.

Damkerng T.

I think if we think of signing as a single act, a bit somewhat instantaneous, in a point in time, perhaps it was signed would be more likely.

But when we think of it as a bit longer process, it was being signed sounds okay to me.

Man_From_India

One sec. I haven't gave the context.

Damkerng T.

I remember I posted a link to an interesting paper on the progressive aspect in my comment once. Hmm... how can I find that comment?!

Man_From_India

(Nicholas found that old encrypted map. And then he commented it)

@DamkerngT. It's hard.

Damkerng T.

13:24

I think it sounds like, when it was here the last time, it was in the process of being signed (i.e., signing).

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. hmmm what does that mean?

Damkerng T.

Ah! I found it in my own bookmarks anyway. :D

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Thanks, please share it.

Damkerng T.

I’m loving you – and knowing it too: Aspect in so-called stative verbs

> We love the marvellous; and while we ridicule our neighbors, for the same folly, we are loving it, more heartily than they.

It's interesting that love and are loving are in the same sentence. :D

Wow, cure of has fallen out of use for some decades already.

0

Q: When to reduce a relative clause

I know if a relative clause is restrictive it can be reduced. But sometimes when I reduce a relative clause I am suggested to use a non-reduced one, and when I don't, I am suggested to do. Then I wonder if there are other rules for reducing relative clauses? Here are some of my sentences in whic...

relative-clauses reduced-relative-clause

Hmm... a strange rule.

> a) A global variable ~~that is~~ representing the heading of a section is used in ...

> b) This global variable, representing the heading of a section, is used by ...

I think a) and b) are perfectly okay.

Man_From_India

13:47

> Some factors are influential in distinguishing between progressive and non-progressive mental verbs. That is, verbs like think and wonder, which commonly occur with the progressive, can be interpreted as involving an active agent controlling the thought process. In contrast, verbs like appreciate, desire, know, like, and want are more typically interpreted as expressing a state experienced by someone:

1. You should be wondering why. (CONV)

2. He didn't know why. (FICT)

From page 473 Biber et al)

@DamkerngT. It's their corpus analysis. But it's real tough to classify a verb in the group of wonder type or know type just by its semantic. It can be "either a state experienced by someone" or "involve an active agent controlling the thought process".

I mean wonder can also be interpreted as a state experienced by someone. And know can also be interpreted as involving an active agent controlling the thought process.

It is really tough.

Damkerng T.

nods

3

Q: What perfect predators vs. how perfect predators

I have a question. I work as an EFL teacher and I came across this sentence in a cloze exercise about a shark attack. "It just goes to show you what perfect predators they really are." A number of students wrote "It just goes to show you how perfect predators they really are." Now, I unders...

word-choice

Hmm...

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. I was almost going to ask the source of that rule :-)

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India :)

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. a very good question, and a very bad answer there. In the sentences does what perfect predator and how perfect predator have the same meaning? But OP seems to be saying that they have.

Damkerng T.

nods -- If how perfect predators they are is really unidiomatic, and it might be, I don't have any good explanation.

(except for, it just is, of course :-)

Man_From_India

14:03

:-)

V.V.

How perfect predators are.

Man_From_India

~~how perfect predator~~ --> how perfect of a predator

@DamkerngT. The explanation is here.

Page 121 under External Modifier of ASIEG

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

Man_From_India

If they want to ask how perfect they are as a predator, I don't think what perfect predator they are would be correct.

Nor does how perfect predator they are.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I don't see a part that can be applied to our question.

Man_From_India

14:14

In that page?

Damkerng T.

I don't have pages. I have "locations".

Man_From_India

Oh I was just saying that how perfect predator is not grammatical.

@DamkerngT. ?????

Damkerng T.

It's a Kindle book.

Man_From_India

oh i see.

You are real fond of ebooks :-)

Damkerng T.

Chapter 5 starts from location 2289, for example. (^_^)

Man_From_India

14:17

It's in chapter 6 in my edition.

Damkerng T.

I see. Retrying...

Man_From_India

chapter 6 1.9 (b)

1.9 Other functions of AdjPs

b External Modifiers

Damkerng T.

Found it! Thanks!

Man_From_India

You welcome :-)

Damkerng T.

Hmm... it doesn't tell us we can't use how perfect predators, I think.

Man_From_India

14:21

If there are several types of perfect predators then only what perfect predators make sense to me in that sentence.

Damkerng T.

What fools they are should be fine, for example.

(adapted from [31] ii b.)

Man_From_India

Oh now got it. Exclamation. Right.

It's possible.

I was thinking of question.

Damkerng T.

But I don't think how perfect predators they are is really idiomatic, though.

If one wants how, maybe how perfect these predators are.

But "why" is the hard part, as usual.

Man_From_India

PEU 16

16 adjectives: position after as, how, so, too.

@DamkerngT. No reason is given, but this is how these AdjPs behave when it has how in it in modifier position.

Damkerng T.

Nice find!

Man_From_India

14:30

But our edition of PEU is different, so that 16 in my PEU would not be the same one in your PEU.

you have to search a bit :-)

It's in the index though.

under how + adjective + article + noun.

Damkerng T.

It's 14 in my edition. The title of the entry helps.

Oh, 'Westworld' is very well received by the audience!

Man_From_India

Yes it's 9.5/10 in IMDb

Damkerng T.

Crichton was genius with his theme park ideas.

Man_From_India

I don't know if it's aired in India or not.

Do you watch it?

Damkerng T.

I'm watching it, actually! ;-)

Man_From_India

14:38

oh :-) enjoy.

Damkerng T.

HBO Signature channel

Thanks!

Man_From_India

it's only HBO here. I don't watch tv much.

Damkerng T.

The wide view of the setting is awesome. I wonder where they shoot (or shot?) the series.

Rubisco

14:55

@DamkerngT. Louisiana

CowperKettle

>> Lou-Easy-Ann <<

Recalled a song I loved to listen to

Good evening all! Evening, @snailplane, hope you're feeling good this fine morning!

> Lou-Easy-Ann, ain't no woman quite like you
Lou-Easy-Ann, the way you do the things you do

translation into Ukrainian:

> Маруся, ти, Маруся, люблю я твою вроду,
Люблю дивитися, люблю дивитися, як ти ідеш по воду.
Люблю дивитися, люблю дивитися, як ти ідеш по воду.

Blues is international (0:

Rubisco

BoAy!

Anonymous

Good morning :-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Oh! Which edition do you have? I have the third edition.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India For me that one is 14. I must have the same edition as Damkerng!

Anonymous

15:10

@CowperKettle How exactly does one translate Lou-Easy-Ann into Ukranian?

Man_From_India

Good morning @snailplane

CowperKettle

@snailplane I've no Idea! (0: I just pasted two lines from a song where a Cossack sings "Marusya, oh Marusya, I love your looks, I love to watch you as you go to the well to fetch water"

It reminded me very much of JJ Cale's lines

Man_From_India

@snailplane it must be an old edition. The pages are torn :( so can't check.

CowperKettle

It's from a Ukrainian folks song "I'm black, oh so black" (I guess they mean "black-haired")

Хор ім.Верьовки Ой, чорна, я си чорна Ukrainian Folk Song

►

> Oh, I'm black, I'm so black, like a Gipsy
And I fell in love with a black Ivanko (black haired I think)

"Ой чорна я си чорна" Квартет Нігеря-Замбія.mpg

►

Here, some black students from Africa sing this song in Ukraine. It cracks me up

Because they're really black. People are laughing (0:

"Black" can mean both "swarthy" and "black-haired" in Russian and Ukraine

Anonymous

That sounds difficult to translate too!

CowperKettle

15:18

Of course never truly "black" because there are still almost no black-skinned people around

I saw a couple of black-skinned girls from the USA this summer

I was fetching a friend's bicycle back to the bicycle-renting service, and they looked at my bicycle while we stood waiting for the green light to cross the street, and started discussing it

I asked "Do you really like the bicycle?"

They almost died of amazement, they thought that nobody understands what they're saying (0:

@snailplane Yes, I never attempted it. I've no idea how to put it right in English. (0:

Sometimes I see a black guy jogging in the same park with me. There are some black students nowadays in local universities. (0:

But I last saw such a guy in the spring.

Rubisco

You speak of them as if they're some rare species.

CowperKettle

They are rare here. I first saw a black person when I was 16. (0:

I don't know about Iran.

Rubisco

I don't know about Iran either.

This country is like a salad.

CowperKettle

You must have a lot of Azerbaijani people where you live. We had a lot in Siberia.

Rubisco

We don't.

Unless we count as Azerbaijani ourselves.

CowperKettle

15:29

Ah.

Rubisco

Since this province is called East Azerbaijan

CowperKettle

(0:

East Azerbaijan Province

East Azerbaijan Province (Persian: استان آذربایجان شرقی‎‎ Āzarbāijān-e Sharqi; Azerbaijani: شرقی آذربایجان اوستانی‎, Şərqi Azərbaycan ostanı) is one of the 31 provinces of Iran. It is located in Iranian Azerbaijan, bordering with Armenia, Republic of Azerbaijan, Ardabil Province, West Azerbaijan Province, and Zanjan Province. The capital of East Azerbaijan is Tabriz. East Azerbaijan Province is in Regions 3 of Iran, with its secretariat located in its capital city, Tabriz. == Geography == The province covers an area of approximately 47,830 km², it has a population of around four million people...

> The examination of the mass-spectra of the native samples in QualBrowser showed an absence of the oxidized form of peptide LC 10-08. (Shouldn't it be the peptide LC 10-28?)

Damkerng T.

15:48

@CowperKettle Good thing they survived. :P

In Westworld, a robot quoted Shakespeare again and again!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. (0Ж

Damkerng T.

> By my most mechanical and dirty hand--I shall have such revenges on you both. That all the world shall--I will do such things. What they are yet I know not, but they shall be the terrors of the earth.

CowperKettle

I had a dream this night where you featured, and I was glad that you survived too.

@DamkerngT. Nice!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Thank you very much! :D

CowperKettle

In the dream, I travelled to Thailand, and we backpacked in the mountains

Damkerng T.

15:51

That's very nice!

CowperKettle

There was a river and we were on a mountain cliff above it. A beautiful view on a village below

You suddenly decided to jump in the river

It was too high, but you just jumped

Damkerng T.

I've only been to mountains in the north, never in the northeast.

@CowperKettle Ugh! Did I survive?

CowperKettle

The locals fished you out of the water. You broke a leg, but you survived

Damkerng T.

LOL -- Phew!

CowperKettle

nods

Damkerng T.

15:53

Let's augment the dream. :D

CowperKettle

(0:

Yes, beautiful..

Rubisco

@DamkerngT. But I don't see a convenient cliff to jump there.

Damkerng T.

LOL

CowperKettle

But there's a great play of light and shadow, just like in the dream. I just stood and watched amazed, it was so beautiful.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle The weather up there could make me shiver, but I guess you may sweat. :P

CowperKettle

16:05

@DamkerngT. One can wear the approximate clothing.. specialized polymer clothing that protects from cold but does not soak up the sweat.

I have some clothing of this sort, and need to buy more.

Damkerng T.

Nice! I don't have that kind of clothing.

CowperKettle

In 10 days' time it will be handy, if I decide to ride my bicycle. (0:

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

New Year bicycle ride, I remember it was about minus 28°C

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Something that I think I'll never be used to. :D

CowperKettle

16:09

(0:

CowperKettle

17:43

Sonnet of the day

> Beloved, thou hast brought me many flowers
Plucked in the garden, all the summer through
And winter, and it seemed as if they grew
In this close room, nor missed the sun and showers,
So, in the like name of that love of ours,
Take back these thoughts which here unfolded too,
And which on warm and cold days I withdrew
From my heart’s ground. Indeed, those beds and bowers
Be overgrown with bitter weeds and rue,
And wait thy weeding; yet here’s eglantine,
Here’s ivy!— take them, as I used to do
Thy flowers, and keep them where they shall not pine.

I know it by heart but still haven't understood the meaning of "in the like name"

Maybe @StoneyB will tell.

Damkerng T.

19:05

Word of the Day: reverie

Damkerng T.

20:09

1

Q: Is there an error in 'The second metric is the lack of violations'?

My advisor commented that I need to fix my English, please help me find the English problem here. The key indicator is an exploitable population. The more exploitable workers are the more likely they are being exploited. This means we need a way to measure each population’s exploitability...

grammaticality

That's interesting.

> The more exploitable workers are the more likely they are being exploited.

Hmm... that sentence reads better with just one are, I think.

But I think the remark was chiefly about the contents rather than the grammar.

@AlanCarmack let me modify, I am a native californio speaker — forest.peterson Sep 13 at 17:42

Oops! That makes it less credible!

But maybe they think comments are like chat, and they write everything like in chat.

Hmm... weird... they quoted the texts properly (in the first revision), but failed to capitalize English and German.

It's just strange to me to see someone care about formatting but not capitalization.

1

A: How to use "verb" with "who"?

(This is not addressing OP's sentences although it deals with OP's concern over one of those noun who) Does the verb following one of those noun who agree with one or those noun? Both are fine. Where it is the subject that is relativised, the expectation would be that the number of the verb ...

Hmm... this part of CGEL is strange.

> [22] i He's [one of those people who always want to have the last word]. (Type I)

> [22] ii He's [one of those people who always wants to have the last word]. (Type I)

> [22] iii He's [one of her colleagues who is always ready to criticise her]. (Type II)

How can we know whether it's one or people/colleagues that is relativized?

I don't think we can.

When we see such an example in corpora, we don't know which word exactly that the speaker wanted to be the head when they said it.

> (OP's example) It was difficult for me to complete the project with Drek because he is one of those persons who thinks he is always right.

I think it still doesn't sound very good even when we replace persons with people.

Anonymous

20:33

Oh, it sounds okay to me if you change persons and probably contract is.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane It's a bit weird to me, as if all "people" (i.e., everyone) are/is male.

But it probably still is grammatical.

It's just the logical side of it that is a bit weird to me.

Anonymous

Oh, I didn't notice because in this case it's talking specifically about him.

Damkerng T.

Like in CGEL's Type II, perhaps.

Anonymous

I can see why what you're saying makes sense (use they instead of he), but it works the way it is.

Anonymous

At least, I think it's natural enough (with those changes).

Damkerng T.

20:40

For me, [22] iii (one of her colleagues who is ...) flows better than OP's one of those people who thinks he's ...

Anonymous

It does seem like a syntactic blend.

Damkerng T.

nods

(To be honest, the OP's example raised this question in my head: "What people?")

Anonymous

However, I wouldn't say that all syntactic blends are necessarily errors.

Damkerng T.

BTW, there are lots of unfamiliar names in this Wikipedia pages! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joyce

Oops! *page

Damkerng T.

21:01

Interestingly, James Joyce led me to some prep books on GRE Literature, another standardized test that I knew nothing about!

Which in turn led me to the Western canon: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_canon

> Philosopher John Searle suggests that the Western canon can be roughly defined as "a certain Western intellectual tradition that goes from, say, Socrates to Wittgenstein in philosophy, and from Homer to James Joyce in literature"

Damkerng T.

23:09

^A SAT question

Transcript for