Language Overflow

Q: How to explain this correct use of passive voice on a Cambridge exam?

3

I am working with some students on Cambridge First and in the second part of the "use of English" there is an exercise in Part 4 you have to complete the second sentence so that it has a similar meaning to the first sentence, using the word given. You must use between two to five words. The exa...

I wonder if they're really equivalent, because they don't seem to be for me.

> a) All the trees apart from that big apple tree were blown over in the storm.

> b) That big apple tree was the only one not to be blown over in the storm.

One is looking back. The other is looking forward from a point in time in the past.

(in my idea)

StoneyB

2:03 AM

@DamkerngT. Yes, they're equivalent. The infinitival loses its prospectivity in this particular case: CGEL, 162 [9] suggests that it is because an actual rather than a potential event (or in this case non-event!) is involved.

2

I haven't got a better explanation.

Q: Term for bed sheet that embraces and partially ecapsulates the mattress

5:49 AM

A nice question:

10

I went to IKEA and got me a new sheet. It's awesome on the bed because instead of being "sheety", it's got those rubber parts so one doesn't fold it under the mattress to keep it in place but rather skewers it or maybe embraces it onto it. What's that kind of sheet called? What's the traditiona...

word-choice word-request

I liked the words "instead of being sheety". This new sheet must be cool sheet.

"If you don't stop being sheety on me, I'll buy me a new sheet in IKEA"

Anonymous

@CopperKettle I like the word shirty.

6:15 AM

@snailboat Nice! It envelops the mattress as a shirt.

Ah. No. It's angry or irritated

7:03 AM

Hi all!

I was reading a very interesting article. And when I go through it, there were only one person in my head @DamkerngT.

Though I haven't met you in real life, your words are so perfect. Now, just admit it

linkedin.com/pulse/…

7:49 AM

Interesting.

9:43 AM

Hullo @Wanda; I wonder when we'll be able to get you to talk. :)

Also where's @Dam? Don't tell me he's got something more important than chatting! OMG

10:26 AM

187

Latin Language

Proposed Q&A site for linguists, teachers, and students wanting to discuss the finer points of the Latin language.

Currently in commitment.

@Stoney does that interest you?

@Dam what's with the new pinned message?

I mean, why is it pinned rather than starred?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Um... I clicked the wrong button!

10:55 AM

@CrazyNinja That means a lot to me. And thanks for that article!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I muted my speakers, so I didn't hear all those pings!

@StoneyB It was a perfect explanation. Thanks!

Q: Since last few days a problem came up in my phone or a problem showed up in my phone

11:47 AM

0

Since last few days a problem came up in my phone or a problem showed up in my phone. which is more correct?

word-choice

Sometimes I wish our learners wouldn't come up with their own sentences in the questions (apart from the parts that they "modified").

I also wonder if anyone will have the same problem in the future. Maybe someone will. But I don't know.

(I write about a sentence or two, going to tell the OP that 'proofreading' is off-topic, but I changed my mind, thinking that maybe it's not a proofreading request per se; just 'came up' vs. 'showed up' in a sentence made by the OP.)

Anonymous

12:19 PM

@CopperKettle Shirty belongs to dialects I don't speak natively. I didn't come across it until I was in my twenties, I think. I just like the sound of it :-)

Anonymous

If I'd had more opportunities to hear it in context, I might have a very different impression of it.

How did shirty get that meaning?

It's curious, isn't it? :D

Anonymous

I don't know! :-)

It makes me think of those referees in soccer.

(They're sometimes jokingly called [men-in-black-shirts] over here.)

Anonymous

@CopperKettle The OED lists another meaning for shirty, 'Resembling or modelled on a shirt', though I haven't seen it used that way.

Anonymous

12:25 PM

> to get (a person's) shirt out, to cause him to lose his temper.

Anonymous

> 1859 Hotten's Slang Dict. s.v. Shirty, When one person makes another in an ill humour he is said to have ‘got his shirt out’.

2

Thanks!

12:45 PM

@snailboat Nice!

One friend is svelte and sporty, the other short and shirty.

1:29 PM

@DamkerngT. And it didn't go boom. Boring.

Q: What is the diffrence between " possibality" and " probality"?

2:18 PM

-6

which one is stronger? explain it with an example

meaning grammar differences vocabulary

Such complication.

Hahaha look at the revisions.

I bet even @TCh can't answer such a question.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Heh.

Everything is possibal, even some that are highly unprobal.

Possiballs hit Earth every 36 years.

2:35 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. But the powers-that-be have no probaballs to admit it.

We should form a comedic duo. (0:

@CopperKettle That reminds me

An old Russian joke: (a phone conversation) "Hello, is this the laundry?" - "F$&kondry! This is the Ministry of Culture!"

in The Periodic Table, 5 hours ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

This mainstream is always planning to eat our brains and be superior to us. It wants us to remain stupid and not know that tritium is actually a unicorn in disguise. We should rise up against the tyranny and reveal the conspiracy theory. If we don't, circles are gonna be running around us. #Tinfoil_hat — Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. 7 secs ago

(0:

Some guy set up a web domain called F%&kondry.RF that redirected all the visitors to the site of Russia's Ministry of Culture.

It has been shut down today.

discussion fun experts-exchange

Well, I guess that guy is a friend of

55

Q: On "That Hyphenated Site"

OK, which one of you jokers (oh, and I know it was one of you) did this? http://expert-sex-change.com :) Don't bother looking up the WHOIS, it's anonymized through GoDaddy. Also, for the record, I have nothing against "That Hyphenated Site". I for one applaud what they do, because they make o...

2:40 PM

The website fails to open in my browser.

It's down now.

ah

Yes, I remember a joke about "experts exchange" (0:

I found a nice website called Socratic, some good explanations about chemistry.

Socratic is nice.

Sadly, there are no ways to find out which is correct and which is not.

Hullo @KiruthigaKuppuswamy! Welcome to the Table!

I asked an additional question, and the guy expanded his answer with nice diagrams.

So the site is alive and kicking.

Who said it isn't?

IMO first chem.SE, then Socratic, then hyperphys, then chemicalforums.

2:51 PM

Thanks !!!! I am just lost since I am kinda new to this site!!

Well, take a look around!

This is Stack Exchange chat for English Language Learners.

:-)

joined that!!

But @Cop your question should include some reasoning and/or research on chem, as usual.

Make sure, if you ever ask anything, that you've checked some Wikipedia links. :P

@KiruthigaKuppuswamy Yay!

Tell us a bit about yourself.

I not a native english speaker, but interested in learning in English Literature and started taking baby steps !! Just an interested soul searching around..

@

@KiruthigaKuppuswamy Oh, we're nonnative English speakers too.

We have both native and nonnative speakers chatting here in different times of the day.

For instance, the doll that is about to hunt me up there is a native speaker named @Catija.

3:02 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Oh that cool!! I like that ..

I'm not a doll... I'm a hippo.

@catija Its a cute hippo

@KiruthigaKuppuswamy Please make sure to find out whether your future questions will be appropriate in ELL.SE or English.SE.

Leaner questions go to ELL.

@Catija A hippo doll

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. No. A plush toy. Dolls are creepy.

A: Is english.stackexchange aimed at professionals, or also at rookies?

@Kiru read this:

9

English.SE (People are comfy with calling it ELU) is for questions a native English speaker may ask or questions there are about topics that concern mostly native speakers. There's a good chance that learner questions belong to ELL.SE. See how ELL's different from ELU: What is the difference betw...

3:04 PM

@Catija Only after 2010.

@Catija Just saw one creepy dool in the "The boy" trailer

Its the same as in your pic :-O

Thx @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. checking it out..

Film title beginning with "the". It must be horror.

Anyway, dolls are usually human-like, often shaped like babies or toddlers.

@Cat should I go ask on M&TV why horror movies are usually titled "The X"? Esp. the cheesy ones.

3:07 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Yes. thats true

You'd have to work really hard to prove that is the case... which it really isn't... all of the Scream movies, for example... or Halloween... There's a lot that don't include the article.

And a lot that does.

No other genre has this many "the X" titles.

I'm not asking for why it's a convention/rule/whatever, I'm asking why it would be the case.

But you said "usually"... and that implies greater than half... generally probably greater than 75%... I don't agree with that.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. That'd probably be a better question for ELU, honestly...

@Catija [ . . . ]

Well, it does seem to me like 75%.

That means it's not a good question at all. :(

Well, it does seem to me like 75%.

You know what, chat? I'm not gonna delete that this time.

@Catija So it's a plush doll. :P

Because it's about English usage more than about movies. They'd have a better idea of what makes up a title and what commonalities you find in horror titles...

If I had to guess, it's due to the films being about a specific thing or event... The Texas Chain Saw Massacre... could they have shortened it to "Texas Chain Saw Massacre"? Probably... but it makes it more generic and removes that sense that you're talking about a specific event.

The Cabin in the Woods... vs "Cabin in the Woods"... "the" makes it a specific cabin. Without it, it's just a generic cabin.

3:16 PM

The grudge

... but that's all a strictly Engish-based answer... there's nothing about the films in it. That's why I think it makes more sense on ELU.

But, it's Exorcist, not The Exorcist, I think.

The Exorcist (film)

The Exorcist is a 1973 American supernatural horror-drama film directed by William Friedkin, adapted by William Peter Blatty from his 1971 novel of the same name. The book, inspired by the 1949 exorcism of Roland Doe, deals with the demonic possession of a 12-year-old girl and her mother's attempts to win back her child through an exorcism conducted by two priests. The adaption is relatively faithful to the book, which itself has been commercially successful (hitting the New York Times bestseller list). The film experienced a troubled production; even in the beginning, several prestigious film...

Nope.

The Ring

Oh

The @JimR

They're all implying a very specific thing... not a generic one. The Japanese version of The Ring is Ring... but that's because the film is just "Ringu" in Japanese...

3:20 PM

@Catija So why isn't this trend happening in other movie titles?

I mean, movie titles in other genres.

Surely they're not general?

... Why do you think that they don't? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drama_films_of_the_2010s

Nearly half of every list, the title starts with "The".

The Social Network -- definitely scary. :P

It's also the subjects... they're just more often not about things you can put an article in front of... sometimes they're verbs...

@DamkerngT. The Stack Exchange is more gruesome.

:D

3:27 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I have a meta question about that... stupid... ugh.

Q: Why are there no tinfoil hats?

45

Ever since the StackOverflow conspiracy was first discovered we know we have been living with all our imaginary Internet dollar points at risk. The Winter Bash would be the perfect opportunity to put an end to that risk, but it turns out that there is no tinfoil hat that we can obtain to protect...

feature-request status-completed winterbash-2012 fun hat-request

@Catija Shoot me.

How can you be so sure there are no tinfoil hats? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/159186/… — balpha ♦ Dec 19 '12 at 11:17

^My first thought!

Robot minds think alike.

Q: Should we continue to use "The Stack Exchange Network" on the Chat FAQ text?

12

I saw today that the site still refers to itself as "The Stack Exchange Network" in some places but I'm not sure if that's correct, current terminology. Here is an example from the Chat FAQ page. The entire page pretty much exclusively reads "The Stack Exchange Network", which seems a bit much....

discussion chat site-faq

Yeah that one.

You should've known that the consequences of your actions would be being chained down by The Site That Shall Not Be Named.

3:34 PM

I wonder if the web designer dropped the the in the same way the movie White House Down dropped its the.

3:55 PM

I don't see White House Down as missing "the"...

For example, "I'm going on a White House tour"... can also be rephrased as "I'm going on a tour of The White House."... but the "The" isn't required. And that particular title is, I believe, referential to Black Hawk Down...

nods -- Could it be the same in the case of our The Stack Exchange Network?

4:17 PM

"I've found that when I'm on the ground" -- Why not I was on the ground? Hmm... (it's from the lyrics of The Real Me)

> I've found that when I spend two or three minutes with someone before a class, they don't feel like they're in a seminar anymore.

> --How to Communicate with Confidence, Mike Bechtle

Oh, it's a different structure!

Maybe that verse in the lyrics is of this structure as well. -- looking...

Ah, right!

> And I've found that when I'm on the ground. She's the only one still sticking around.

My search above was inspired by this sentence: I've got a some sentence when I ran across on a web (ell.stackexchange.com/q/80147/3281)

There are more than one issue in the sentence, but the tenses in the main clause and the subordinate clause haven't been addressed in any answer.

To put it another way, it makes me wonder if we can fix that sentence like this: I've got this sentence when I searched the web?

(Note the 've got and when I searched)

5:03 PM

A computer program has beaten a professional Go player

Interesting.

Jim Reynolds

5:16 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Whom pingeth me?

@Dam We won't say I've got to mean I've found in the OP's context

nods -- Ah, that's another oddness!

How about I've found this sentence when I searched the web?

Jim Reynolds

:)

We've got an odd world.

It's an imperfect world. :-)

January 2016 East Asia cold wave

5:45 PM

In late January 2016, a cold wave struck much of East Asia and parts of mainland Southeast Asia, bringing record cold temperatures and snowfall to many regions. Many regions saw their coldest temperatures in decades, while sleet was reported in Okinawa for the first time on record. Snowfall and frigid weather stranded thousands of people across four countries. At least 85 people in Taiwan died from hypothermia and cardiac arrest following a sudden drop in temperature during the weekend of January 22–24. The cold claimed a further four lives in China, and fourteen in Thailand, and snowstorms resulted...

14 people in Thailand died from cold!

nods -- This happens every year, but 14 only in January is (a lot?) more than normal, I'd say.

Probably this happens in the mountain regions?

I see that now it's +27C in Bangkok

Usually in rural areas, and older people.

@CopperKettle I think it's about 22-24C right now.

Here we have almost no deaths from cold, except when a person gets lost in the wood.

One guy froze to death on the famous Dyatlov Pass.

But that pass is famously harsh.

I think most people here don't expect the coldness, so we don't have much protection, and we're not used to cold weathers.

5:49 PM

I bet. Here everybody starts to swaddle themselves in September.

nods

Dyatlov Pass incident

The Dyatlov Pass incident was an event that took the lives of nine hikers in mysterious circumstances on the night of February 2, 1959 in the northern Ural Mountains. The name Dyatlov Pass refers to the name of the group's leader, Igor Dyatlov. The incident involved a group of ten experienced ski hikers from the Ural Polytechnical Institute (Уральский политехнический институт, УПИ) who had set up camp for the night on the slopes of Kholat Syakhl. Investigators later determined that the skiers had torn their tents from the inside out. They fled the campsite, probably to escape an imminent threat...

Nine people died in 1959 in a strange incident, nobody knows exactly why.

It was cold as hell, of course, so mainly from cold.

But they were experienced hikers, so it's a mystery.

-30C!

Yes, quite cold..

Something I can't even imagine!

5:54 PM

Well, imagine yourself dressed in three pairs of trousers, a couple of sweaters, a warm overcoat, a hat. Then imagine you feel the same cool feeling you feel in Thailand's mountain region when you're in your shorts and there is +12C. (0:

That helps!

In my younger days, I used to stay in a 16C computer room, wearing light. I surely can't do that anymore.

Well, maybe if you open enough tabs, the computer will heat up the room. (0:

LOL

> "Chlorine(VII) oxide reacts with water to give the very strong acid, chloric(VII) acid - also known as perchloric acid". (I wonder why sometimes the is used in introductions of this kind, sometimes a).

Clearly if we put "very strong acid" after "chloric(VII) acid", it would be a, with no other options.

I think it's because the author expects us to know "chloric(VII) acid", so it's the one that we know.

6:08 PM

Could be so!

But it's an introductory text..

It reminded me of this:

> In Scotland's realm forlorn and bare
_THE_ history chanced of late,--
This history of a wedded pair,
A chaffinch and his mate.

(Quotation malfunction)

Here we also have the in the introductory phrase.

:)

IMHO, it would imply shared knowledge between the writer and the reader.

I have no any better explanation, though. (Maybe CGEL has!)

Hi, @CrazyNinja!

@DamkerngT. how are you doing? I guess you all are fine.

I'm fine. Thanks!

I'm doing late night work of my college projects, homworks and assignments ... uuurgh

6:17 PM

Ah... that sounds like fun. ;-)

Noooo... i haven't had a good sleep I guess for last week

Don't forget to have some rest!

7:15 PM

If I didn't have to... can be parsed as an ongoing obligation. "If I didn't have to go work every day, I could laze on the beach." In my dialect, #2 has been mostly replaced with #1, relying on context or a time-marker in the main clause to clear up any ambiguity. "If I didn't have to take the dog to the vet, I could have watched the playoff game on TV last weekend." — TRomano 49 mins ago

it looks like to some speakers, If I didn't have to ... can be used with either the present and the past (unreal) event in the main clause.

It can't be.

(I wouldn't move if I didn't have to. -- If I didn't have other commitments and if I didn't have to be in other places right now, I would have liked to ...)

Why can't it be?

(We might have hit that cow if I didn't have to stop to pee.)

(Examples from COCA)

Give the example with the unreal past in the main clause.

Have you seen the examples above?

Yes.

7:22 PM

Problem solved. :D

And after it you use Past Simple?

Now I'm confused. What do you mean by "Give the example with the unreal past in the main clause."?

The examples (up there) fit my speculation.

8 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

it looks like to some speakers, If I didn't have to ... can be used with either the present and the past (unreal) event in the main clause.

With would(could,might)have +Past Part.

But we are discussing real English here.

Most grammar books for learners simplify lots of things and sometimes it's misleading.

Otherwise, all the learners would've mastered English within just a year or so.

I see. We are taught mixed Conditionals.

7:27 PM

nods

But they are hard to understand.

Most of the examples I found in COCA (of the pattern if I didn't have to) have unreal present events in the main clauses. But some of the examples are unreal past events.

@V.V. Human (i.e., natural) languages are notoriously hard to be formalized as rules.

Hadn't have to is never used?

@V.V. There are some, but not many.

Any examples of that?

7:32 PM

I'd say that If I didn't have to ..., X would've ... and If I hadn't had to ..., X would've ... have about the same numbers of hits.

(with one thing worth mentioning: when it's If I hadn't had to ..., it's always X would've ..., i.e., an unreal past event)