Language Overflow - 2016-01-10

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2:17 AM

o/

@Nihilist_Frost Hi. I want to chat with you about ell.stackexchange.com/questions/78193/…

I tried to make a point in a funny or clever way with my comment, but maybe it looks critical. I think you did some nice work there.

My point was that tag questions are much more complex than we can describe in a short answer, like most grammar topics. I think it often confuses learners to get oversimplified or simple but incomplete rules without telling them that they are only basic guidelines. So I gave a counterexample.

1 hour later…

Anonymous

3:30 AM

@DamkerngT. I'm a native speaker and I wouldn't say any of those.

@snailboat, you are a native, it's true. But one of Transnistria, isn't that right?

It doesn't burnish your linguistinautical credentials.

Anonymous

3:53 AM

I would like to encourage everyone once again to say a native speaker and not just a native. The latter can have other meanings we don't intend.

The native speakers are growing restless.

How reliably do people choose between the so-called "going to" future and the so-called present continuous future depending on whether or not there is intention, arrangement, etc.?

I'm graduating next year. I'm going to graduate next year. I doubt that many native speakers choose which to use by such criteria.

Anonymous

I graduate next year. I will graduate next year. I may graduate next year. I must graduate next year.

Anonymous

There are lots of constructions with futurive meaning.

7:07 AM

Welcome a new tag

syllepsis!

O.O

This is the first time ever that I've seen this word!

Zeugma (/ˈzuːɡmə/ or /ˈzjuːɡmə/; from the Ancient Greek ζεῦγμα, zeûgma, lit. "a yoking together") and syllepsis (/sɪˈlɛpsɪs/; from the Ancient Greek σύλληψις, sullēpsis, lit. "a taking together") are figures of speech in which one single phrase or word joins different parts of a sentence. == Definition == There are multiple and sometimes conflicting definitions for zeugma and syllepsis in current use. This article will categorize the figures into four types, based on four definitions. === Type 1 === Grammatical syllepsis (sometimes also called zeugma): where a single word is used in rel...

7:45 AM

> By showing them incrementally, he hopes to focus the audience’s attention on the item he is currently talking
about. On second thought, he deletes the \pause stuff once more since in simple cases like the above the pausing
is rather silly. Indeed, Euclids has noticed that good presentations make use of this uncovering mechanism only
in special circumstances.

I heart that.

1 hour later…

9:12 AM

@snailboat Thanks! But what are those?

@DamkerngT. TeX points and Adobe points?

I guess it was "1) At 7:00, I ate breakfast for 30 mins 2) I ate breakfast for 30 mins from 7:00 3) I ate breakfast for 30 mins until 7:30".

Oh. That seems very close to TeX points and Adobe points.

LOL

@CopperKettle Ahh... it was because of this:

I think you are asking about a Zeugma or Syllepsis. This is a figure of speech which can be used for special effects (particularly humour). But in many contexts it will either confuse readers, or cause them to stop and admire your cleverness - if that is your intention, fine, but if you wanted to communicate information this might not be what you want. — Colin Fine 14 hours ago

9:34 AM

There are relatively few situations that would call for us to specify how long we took eating breakfast.

The way we'd present the information would depend on situational factors.

If we needed to give the information out of the blue, perhaps most common would be: I ate breakfast from 7 to 7:30.

Or it took me 30 mins / half an hour to eat breakfast.

Both sound good

Eggs and waffles sounds good!

Anonymous

9:55 AM

@DamkerngT. I was talking about the answer you linked to that began with "A native speaker would say"

@CopperKettle (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

I'm gonna ask a question about it, I think.

@snailboat Thanks! So I guessed right.

Anonymous

@CopperKettle Coordination of unlikes.

New meta post @Dam:

4

Q: Is serial un-upvote a thing?

Today I saw a user in a per site meta that has a reputation tab like this: Their meta post is about something else though. The problem I have is with this very screenshot: 4 un-upvotes took place in a range of 5 minutes For the sake of a consensus, I'm not asking for someone to look into t...

discussion voting up-votes

Maybe unupvotes are system generated.

10:04 AM

What?

Unupvotes happen because users do them.

Oh!

Also, regarding the case of serial unupvotes, someone has to go to the person's profile and unupvote stuff serially, since votes are locked after 5 minutes unless the post is edited.

But there are no matched upvote questions in the screenshot.

Unupvoted questions are old, perhaps?

@DamkerngT. The upvote must have been old.

We can dig it up by post timelines.

10:40 AM

If we comment on an answer, is the answer's author notified by default?

@JimReynolds Yes.

Anonymous

11:34 AM

Votes are unlocked when a post is edited.

@snailboat Yep.

12:30 PM

user image

Anonymous

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Gary! :-)

1:20 PM

user image

2

1:36 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Nice kettle!

Ohio judge uses verse to deny lawsuit

Oh, wow, where do we start with this one!

0

Q: Verbs that can give a sentence passive like construction or meaning

They turn out to cost more than they originally seemed to. I think the above sentence is in passive voice, though it does not follow the rules which the other passive constructions follow, i.e there is no subject followed by auxiliary verb and past participle form of verbs. I think, they ori...

passive-voice passive

Anybody feel up to describing the difference between syntactic and thematic relationships?

Um ... you do it, and I'll see if it's right. O.O

Gee, Jim, you're a real pal.

:D

:Þ

1:48 PM

I don't know how to parse that, I think.

I could spend the rest of the day on this one. I think I'll do my laundry and mop the floors instead.

I remember that seem is a raising verb, but that won't be enough for an answer. (0:

Let's see if Swan can help.

Raise the mop!

But it seems ideally suited to @snailboat's particular talents (hint, hint).

1:51 PM

It turns out that ...

Is there an agent?

No.

?

Suggested reading: Practical English Usage by Michael Swan: 609 verbs with both active and passive meanings. — Damkerng T. 12 secs ago

It's not an agentive verb; there's no Agent involved. It's a copular, and the subject is a Theme.

Hmm... are these okay in English: This story tells very well. This wine drinks smoothly. This show watches well.

@Dam has volunteered to answer it! Hooray for Damkerng!

Ah, I just posted a comment. :D

1:54 PM

For it's a jolly good robot. For it's a jolly good robot ...

My whiskey is drinking me roughly this evening.

It looks like oerkelens thought all of them are fine.

@JimReynolds I hope much of you is left. :P

A little bit of me is left, but none of that is right.

How sinister . . .

(Things) turn out and (Things) seemed are a little different, though.

I'd say that if it were it, it'd be some sort of a dummy-it.

2:17 PM

Ayup. "It turned out that they cost more than expected". "It seems that they cost more than they ought to." vs "They turned out to cost ..." and "They seem to cost ...".

But I think OP's problem is that they interpret Subject as Agent; and the verbs they're concerned with -- turn out and seem, and even cost -- are not only intransitive copulars, they all imply something like an Agent on the semantic fringe. There's somebody witnessing what turns out, there's somebody interpreting what seems, there's somebody paying that cost. They're none of em actual Agents, but they're more like Agents than the actual Subjects are. So OP detects a "passive" sense here.

@StoneyB If I'm not mistaken, such a sentence would be considered passive in Arabic, according to MAR.

Really?! -- then either "passive" must mean something different in Arabic grammar, or the Arabic language structures its verbs differently. I'll have to go look into that...

nods

2:35 PM

"on the semantic fringe" ... I summered there once.

> Then let's generalize this use:
A visited / approached / ran to / notified / engaged B with a contract.

> ell.stackexchange.com/q/78387/3281

I think visited, approached, ran to work.

engage should also work.

notify probably doesn't work, or only works marginally.

She ran to him with a knife -- Perfectly fine, imo.

1 hour later…

4:14 PM

hiii

anyone free to have a discussion with me?

@CrazyNinja Yep

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. glad to see you. are you busy with some other important work ?

Today actually I need to have a small talk with anyone of you

Topic is Early Child Development

@CrazyNinja I'm always busy with some other important work; but I'm an efficient slacker.

And I'm eating a banana.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. hope for a healthy life

@CrazyNinja The topic?

4:25 PM

What exactly does this mean Early Child Development ?

Anonymous

Mmm, delicious inulin

@CrazyNinja Well, the development of a toddler.

When the brain gains the normal capabilities a normal human has.

@snailboat Inulin? Insulin?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. do you know anything about it? Not asking about your experience. but anything you have read about it :P

I haven't had any scholar studies or research on it.

Anonymous

Bananas are a source of inulin.

4:28 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. have you ever seen a web application based on that topic ?

So anything I say is from a simplistic, everyday-life POV which usually sucks in science talks.

@snailboat I only care about the potassium if I do. :P

Anonymous

Then you should eat spinach. It's a better source :-)

@CrazyNinja Web app? O_O

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ~~web app~~ (useful) web site

@snailboat I only eat vegetables when there's nothing else to eat, which is like, always?

Anonymous

4:30 PM

@CrazyNinja By the way, I'm not ignoring you, I just have nothing useful to say.

@CrazyNinja Useful website that provides what information?

Anonymous

Otherwise I'd say it :-)

Scientific research conducted about it?

@snailboat yup. I understood with your silence.

Piece of advice to parents?

How bananas help kids grow?

4:31 PM

How would you pronounce "Truong" at first glance?

Anonymous

Poorly

@Nihilist_Frost I would go for humor right now, so attemptedly an incorrect pronunciation.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Ok. This is what really happened. Today we got this topic to develop a web app . So, I'm really have no clue what this is and what we really need to do as our project. So I came to ELL to get some help from you guys

@CrazyNinja OK . . .

Anonymous

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. It is kind of silly that inulin and insulin look so similar. They should come up with unique sounding names, like splountium.

4:34 PM

@snailboat Chemical biologists and nutritionists have terrible imagination tsk tsk.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. When I was young I started with t͡ʃɹɒŋ ~ t͡ʃɹʌŋ; now I pronounce it near to t͡ʃɹuɤŋ

and it's my own surname!

Nihilist F. Trouououououououououng?

@Crazy how's this? who.int/social_determinants/themes/earlychilddevelopment/en

I'm reading it

I found out my surname is the Vietnamese form "Trương" of the Chinese surname "Zhang"

4:55 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I'm still don't have any idea when it comes to someone says "Develop a website related to Early Child Development. It should have at least 10 main functionalities"

@Dam @Snail @others I answered something in meta.SE about ELL!

0

A: Is there any site to ask about quotes?

"What's the meaning of this quote" might be an appropriate question on ELL.SE. I know this since I'm a regular there. Per our help center, questions that can be asked using a dictionary (called General Reference questions or GR questions) are off-topic and we have a close reason for them. So if...

@CrazyNinja That's a weird task.

10 main functionalities? Like what?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. exactly!

You should the person who gave you the task what they meant.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. the only thing she told was, you can have something like adding videos that the child could watch

@CrazyNinja Oh. I see. You should just make a blog-like thing.

4:58 PM

parent account can select the videos, stories, songs that can be watch by the child

But how's that about "early child development"?

so, we have ended up having a mind set that we should also develop a website something like this > kindercare.com

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ^ is this relevant to the exact topic which we have got ?

@CrazyNinja Considering that she told you this, yeah.

@CrazyNinja Yeah, just make a site for little kids.

Make sure to include some rainbows.

And some flowers.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. but, Early Child Development is kind of a research that WHO and UNICEF is doing currently. isn't that so?

@CrazyNinja Well, how's that relevant? They seem to just ask you to make a site for kids' parents.

Like an schedule site, where they can set what their kid can watch, what music the kid can hear etc.

5:04 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ohh wait. You come to the point. who would be my targetted user. Parent or todler ?

@CrazyNinja You'd make something for the parents that would be aimed at toddlers.

Toddlers can't use internet.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. thanks for clearing me that out. Then my assumption was correct. I have already written 7 functions. I need to collect 3 more.

0

Q: Why "will" & Why "ed" is added to "include"? Can you paraphrase it please? Is subject eliminated?

This is a part of an essay: To the extent that the coverage of the global climate from these records can provide a measure of its true variability, it should at least indicate how all the natural causes of climate change have combined. These include the chaotic fluctuations of the atmos...

past-tense future-tense tense-agreement

@CrazyNinja Yay

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Then the whole point of developing a web site is useless

5:07 PM

@CrazyNinja Depends on what we define useless to mean.

@Nihilist_Frost That OP is Iranian!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. should my website looks like kindergarten stuff?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. surnames tell a lot.

@CrazyNinja Not much, but yeah.

@Nihilist_Frost In this case, so does the first name.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. could you please have these small functions I wrote. can you please give me some of your advises on those ?

hastebin.com/yupumuhixe.pas

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. and checking both names can rat out French-speaking people

5:13 PM

@Nihilist_Frost hastebin.com/yupumuhixe.pas

@CrazyNinja Nice!

The next three functions, I advise to be about child-child and parent-child-child interactions.

i.e. about parents and their kid's friends.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-35273479

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I thought toddlers can't even use the keyboard.

:D

This is why you tell kids how to use the phone for emergencies

@CrazyNinja What you aimed at isn't about toddlers, it's about kindergarten pupils.

5:17 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. kindergarten pupils == 5-8 age ?

@Nihilist_Frost Chuckles That reminds me of something.

@CrazyNinja Depends on where and who you are that differs; but I'd consider that 4–7.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. alright. So, what you see that the things which are lack in my functionalities ?

I'm not sure . . .

Making a group of kids?

Activities those groups can do?

Little mindful games like tic-tac-toe?

what sort of activities? (For example)

@CrazyNinja Building a virtual castle?

5:22 PM

yes. I have already included games under the 3rd function

Just use your imagination.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. this is the far I could go. So, now I need some help from others

@CrazyNinja Readings for older pupils?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Stories?

You've written something for listening.

5:25 PM

@CrazyNinja As much as I know that your assignment is challenging, I'd like to see everyone keeps the discussion around language.

You haven't written anything for the writing or reading skills.

@DamkerngT. Hold on, I'm getting this to language.

@DamkerngT. nods

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Okay!

One of the most important aspects children need to learn to cope with in that age is language @Crazy.

You have written something for listening, but I don't see anything for speaking, writing or reading.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. for reading & writing I have included the exams that can be set by their parents. Function 6

5:28 PM

That's not what I'm talking about.

Exams don't particularly help improve.

They are a means of evaluation.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. are you saying, to include different stories based on their age category? It might change the difficulty of the language.. hm?

Isn't that covered already?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. slightly covered.

5:43 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I'm not sure what needs to be added to that list

6:15 PM

On a language site, someone presents interpolate and exterpolate and asks, so what does just polate mean ...

Someone answers it might be like pregnant, where gnant means nothing, though pre- may look like the common prefix.

It may be like "pregnant", which is not a modified form of "gnant" even though it starts with the English prefix "pre".
I wonder if I could get away with telling my friend Alan that his name means "without a computer network".

So funny!

englishforums.com/English/Polate/jjjhc/post.htm

@JimReynolds LOL

Jim is a letter of Persian alphabet.

6:38 PM

I am? I'm honored!

So, it's like, A, B, C, D, Jim, F, G ...

Except all Persiany and stuff?

Yeah.

@Jim you are written as ج.

Oh! Just like me: cute !!!

Though a bit larger than that. I don't understand why the font is so small.

@JimReynolds Our definitions seem to vary.

Maybe in the presence of the superior Jim, it's shy?

lol

1 hour later…

7:53 PM

In several languages, the word for Europe has a V sound. Explain why.

@Nihilist_Frost Dunno. The "U" think is "V"?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. The Modern Greek word for Europe (Ευρώπη) amusingly also has a V sound.

Oh I'm deeply amused I tell ya.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. And the letter values change dramatically

Bs became Vs

Gained both English "th" sounds

eta and upsilon became /i/

upsilon became labiodental consonants after alpha and epsilon

omicron and omega merged

velar fricatives came in

I haven't studied anything about this so I don't have anything to say.

3 hours later…

11:05 PM

0

Q: Intensifying a verb

A strange question: is the form 'do is' correct? For example: HTML is not a programming language. On the other hand, JavaScript, that can be used in a HTML document, do is a programming language.

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Jan '1610

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