The Clubhouse - 2013-07-16

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2:51 AM

0

Q: how much would a gold rookie card for an unknown hockey player be worth?

I didn't see a "collectibles" SE site, so I thought I'd pose it here. I have a box of 93-94 hockey cards I'm cataloging, and I ran across a gold-foil rookie card for Dane Jackson. Given that he had a rather spectacularly uneventful career, what could something like this be worth? My contention...

6 hours later…

8:30 AM

In my question on main I've tried to create tags big-list and online-resources.

I've also suggested tag-wikis to make clear what the tags are supposed to be for , see here and here.

I wasn't sure about big-list, since it is a meta tag and they seem to be discouraged on SE.

What is the position of meta tags here on sports.SE? (I did not find a relevant discussion on meta.)

I thought that online-resources might be a useful tag, but it is apparently not the case - the tag has been already removed.

8:56 AM

0

Q: Which are good websites to follow changes in ATP and WTA ranking

In WTA/ATP rankings it is interesting to know the possibilities for the next edition of the ranking based on possible outcomes of this weeks tournaments and based what stage of the tournament a player reached so far. Are there any good websites showing the points and ranking based on the perform...

2 hours later…

Jacob Jan Tuinstra

11:15 AM

@all do we have a lot of community closures here on Sports?

12:15 PM

@JacobJanTuinstra hardly at all. we need more

@MartinSleziak adding a meta tag is not a good idea.

@MartinSleziak it hasn't come up yet, but it should avoided

user46190

12:33 PM

@JacobJanTuinstra refer to waxeagle's response

user46190

@MartinSleziak why?

@edmastermind29 online resources would be good if it's added to things that need it, though I'm not sure I wouldn't rather a more specific tag there rather than a general "it's online!"

user46190

@waxeagle if you think about it, a majority of our rules questions fall under this category.

user46190

@MartinSleziak a tag with the description "Please do not ask too many of these" usually means the tag shouldn't be created in the first place...

@edmastermind29 too true

@edmastermind29 amen senior

12:38 PM

@edmastermind29 Mostly because I have seen such tag on several other SE sites, so I thought it might be useful here, too.

user46190

@MartinSleziak not bad logic...but I do suggest reading the meta question linked. we want to create tags when they're needed

Of course, there are many users here, who are more experienced with sports.SE, so I will follow their lead.

@MartinSleziak tag ecosystems are generally best if they are left to grow and carefully pruned rather than some being artificially spliced in.

Well, they seemed to me suitable for my question, so I've created the tags.

(and yeah, leave it to the gardening mod to come up with a gardening analogy)

user46190

12:42 PM

@waxeagle how do we feel about source/research requests? I know we added that verbiage in the help center because we were getting questions about videos and such.

But my question might be not good fit for sports.SE, as it is currently on hold.

@edmastermind29 you referring to sports.stackexchange.com/questions/2910/… ?

user46190

@waxeagle yes sir

I'm thinking that high level stuff like that which are key to following the sport might actually be good questions

the only question I'd have is "how widely available is this info" if it's on every sports website then it's really not useful to ask

so asking "where can I find the boxscore for yesterday's orioles game?" would be a terrible question because it's on like 20 websites. but perhaps "where can I find the latest tennis rankings?" is a bit better if it's more obscure

user46190

@waxeagle you're the baseball nut...how widely available is that info? any other league, the PGA Tour and Official World Golf Rankings for example, have stats on their official pages that are about as comprehensive as they get.

12:44 PM

in this case they are looking for a resource that...what...tracks the changes over time? tracks pending changes? has a possibilities?

user46190

@MartinSleziak currently discussing

@edmastermind29 mlb.com, si.com, yahoo.com, espn.com cbssports.com, fangraphs.com, baseballreference.com and probably every other major media outlet :)

(though that's a trick question, the O's didn't play yesterday..all star break)

user46190

@waxeagle point made

user46190

@waxeagle HR derby tho

@edmastermind29 Mr. Grass!

(cesped is the spanish word for grass)

user46190

12:47 PM

@waxeagle was out last night...my church endorses a youth camp every summer and i usually make appearances there to talk to many ppl who want to talk to me...so i'll be missing anything this week and next.

@edmastermind29 yeah I missed it too (no espn or fox on my tv :()

user46190

@waxeagle how many in the first round?

@edmastermind29 17 i think

user46190

@waxeagle no hearing Chris Berman saying "way back....back, back, back, back, gone!" :(

user46190

@waxeagle they are getting nuts in the first round, i tell ya.

12:49 PM

@edmastermind29 yes. yes they are

the final two were Cespedes and Harper. Two guys who make the future of MLB look very rosy

user46190

@waxeagle your thoughts on Harper being overhyped?

@edmastermind29 I dunno, lemmie pull his numbers and comps

user46190

@waxeagle [sabermetrics being analyzed...]

@edmastermind29 his top 4 comps through age 19 are HOFers

he was a 5 WAR (BREF) player as an 19 year old

user46190

@waxeagle amazing. media compares him to Mike Trout...and it seems like Trout has better basic stats than Harper.

12:52 PM

@edmastermind29 trout is a year older that has something to do with it

user46190

@waxeagle that's nuts. i really need to watch baseball a bit more and understand sabermetrics a bit more also...the opportunity for statistics there is near unlimited.

user46190

@waxeagle has he played a year longer also?

@edmastermind29 he played a partial season in 2011

trout was a 10 war player last year, that's not actually double Harper's output, but it's a good bit more. He was definitely better last year.

at this point it would be very hard to overhype Trout

I think this Harper is that good, but both are in rare air just being in the big leagues at 20 and 21

user46190

@waxeagle okay. guy's a beast. came into spring training overweight, but he's killing it.

user46190

@waxeagle no doubt.

user46190

12:55 PM

@waxeagle espn.go.com/mlb/preview13/story/_/id/9084528/…

user46190

know its a preview (and therefore obsolete in some factors) but intriguing nonetheless

this tells me that Harper should have stayed a catcher :(

he's really good as an outfielder, he's a yearly MVP as a catcher.

(but that would have probably delayed his MLB debut by 2 years and shortened his career by 4)

user46190

@waxeagle what was his high school stats when he made the SI cover? 16 yrs old, 96 mph fast ball, 560 ft. HRs?

user46190

@waxeagle catcher's a tough position for longevity's sake

@edmastermind29 yeah. this was the kid who took the GED after his sophomore year so he could go to community college and get in the draft a year early because he was too good for HS ball

@edmastermind29 yep, and they want you to have a lot of defensive development time. Which is why a lot of offensive phenoms get taken out of the position

1:02 PM

I have tried to formulate why I think that big-list type of questions might be sometimes useful and posted on meta.

user46190

@waxeagle so, if you're an average player playing catcher, there's no reason to move you elsewhere...?

0

Q: Are questions about lists of references or online resources on topic?

On some other sites in SE networks I have seen questions asking for lists of references, resources or examples of particular phenomenon. To show a few examples Several sites have big list tag. Many questions on book/tutorial/software recommendations for particular topic are of this type, for ex...

discussion on-topic

user46190

@MartinSleziak thanks. will look. last year, i asked a question that would merit the tag, and it was flagged. so perhaps we may have something here...

@waxeagle To address the how widely available is that info. I have only known the two sites I've posted in my own answer. And I was not entirely satisfied with them.

@edmastermind29 essentially.

@MartinSleziak in that case it sounds legit to me

1:05 PM

But maybe I am simply not that good in searching.

I checked my sports source (Y!) and I couldn't even find the rankings easily

user46190

@MartinSleziak i trust that lmgtfy won't answer your question

user46190

@waxeagle yahoo's usually good, but i still like the official sites...baseball-reference.com might be an exception actually.

@edmastermind29 baseball has the luxury have having two amazing 3rd party stats sites.

it's a rare sport

but it also has one of the most robust stat cultures of all American sports

the NBA and NFL are catching up, but MLB is still the leader in that clubhouse

Ok, thanks for your responses! I'll come back later to see whether there will be some responses on meta.

user46190

1:10 PM

@waxeagle stat cultures sure, but no star power. espn was debating that the NBA doesn't need a rising star in the all-star game because of your kobe's and lebron's but MLB does (Yasiel Puig) because of the slowly decreasing viewership of the sport.

user46190

@MartinSleziak welcome! feel free to meta if you find anything else. i'm formulating a response right now

@edmastermind29 The NBA does the best job of selling it's stars.

A part of that (and football gets this too), is how popular college basketball is

but then it was going on when you have kids straight out of HS. Fun fact, LeBron had a Nike deal in hand before he even knew who was going to draft him.

user46190

@waxeagle i follow the nfl and nba draft...but the mlb draft? there's something to be said for that...which reinforces the ESPN perspective that they need stars. If Tim Tebow or Tiger Woods or Lebron James caliber players played baseball, it would get more viewership....but this young crop is impressive...and seeing some legends (Mariano Rivera) leave us soon.

user46190

@waxeagle not just a 1 figure deal....not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6....but 7 figures.

@edmastermind29 the problem with baseball is that after the draft you don't see those guys again for 2-5 years

user46190

1:17 PM

@waxeagle yeah. but the thing i like about the mlb is the farm system....developing guys. the nba has the d-league, but it's not as potent on the surface. what's the nfl's development grounds? the practice squad?

@edmastermind29 college football

the NFL and NBA are basically using colleges as their defacto farm systems

the NFL tried to get the Europe league kicked up to be a sort of D-League for them, but it didn't work

user46190

@waxeagle exactly. but the MLB and NBA have endorsed development grounds for players in need (of a job)

@edmastermind29 yep. The NFL has no such league. The only way a player can develop is to make a roster or a practice squad. Or go play in Canada

user46190

@waxeagle but they play games in London and it's "popular." perhaps having a league doesn't work but a game or two does. remember, football is the most popular sport in america, but not so much outside...or so it seems.

or if you're a skill player you might be able to stay sharp enough in the Arena league.

user46190

1:23 PM

@waxeagle that's how Kurt Warner started....then Tony Banks and Trent Green got injured and the rest is history.

@edmastermind29 yeah, there are going to be more games in London in the coming years (I think they are going to 2/year soon).

they just tried to do too much too fast with NFL Europe. I think it can (and will) work. It just wasn't time yet

it's a sport the can have global appeal and I think there is a really good chance we see a London based NFL team in our lifetimes

user46190

@waxeagle playing a game or two over there a year is feeling out the demographic...then maybe they start a short season with a low # of teams to start out....then grow it that way. idk.

@edmastermind29 yep. the NFL summer league perhaps :)

basically make it be a multi-team collaborative rookie/young player league like the NBA's summer league

user46190

@waxeagle i think so too. i'm sad that ppl will not get to see peyton manning or tom brady in their primes...absolutely incredible QBs who have transcended the sport for the past decade.

user46190

@waxeagle there's an idea. keep them off the streets and on the football field :D

1:48 PM

0

Q: Are questions about lists of references or online resources on topic?

On some other sites in SE networks I have seen questions asking for lists of references, resources or examples of particular phenomenon. To show a few examples Several sites have big list tag. Many questions on book/tutorial/software recommendations for particular topic are of this type, for ex...

discussion on-topic

@edmastermind29 updated my answer to the tags question with a rationale for denying big list (though that should likely be a separate meta question if we really want a real discussion on it.

though I think that falls into "meta tags are bad" and we can just move on

user46190

@waxeagle agreed. though the verbiage is off-putting in of itself. i think the question asked is legit, but it doesn't translate well as we have discussed.

2:13 PM

@waxeagle I have noticed your addition too. I was not sure about the position on meta tags here, that's why asked in chat above. Now I know.

user46190

@MartinSleziak almost done with my response to your question

user46190

@StackExchange gotta admit, great points and wasn't too easy to answer.

6:06 PM

@edmastermind29 Thanks for the response.

1 hour later…

user46190

7:17 PM

As a discussion point (in reference to this), the "general sense" would come down to brand name, I would assume. Who would choose a John Doe 24-karat gold plated rookie card over a piece of Wayne Gretzky memorabilia? Then again, not too much of an avid card collector.

yeah, the general question is literally meaningless

user46190

@waxeagle the user's edit makes an already localized question more useless.

agreed. There might be some guidance/rules of thumb/etc that I'm not aware of, but that's probably out of our domain.

we're probably capable of scratching the surface of collecting, but anything hardcore like that is probably the domain of elsewhere (even if there isn't an SE for it)

user46190

@waxeagle i'm in favor of sports collecting, but it's something we haven't touched on yet...and to be honest, i'm not sure if it would fit SE's model.

user46190

What's the price of an Alex Rodriguez rookie card? 1) source request 2) could be ever-changing 3) multiple answers from multiple outlets

user46190

7:25 PM

Hmm...

@edmastermind29 there are objective questions and answers there, we just need the right kind of experts asking an answering

"what kind of storage should I use for baseball card commons?"

what Error cards exist for set y

what kind of preservation techniques are required to maintain a card x in condition y

user46190

@waxeagle exactly. i do see potential..."how to keep a card in mint condition?" "what does the scale of rating conditions of cards represent?"

I'll probably get back to collecting cards again soonish

user46190

personally, i use a soft sleeve for my cards, and for the "more valuable" ones, i use a hard sleeve over a soft sleeve.

user46190

@waxeagle did a little when i was a kid...but it never stuck.

user46190

7:29 PM

how about this: "how does the value of a card increase?" perhaps too broad, but...

@edmastermind29 yeah I think so...hmm maybe "what kind of factors influence the value of sports cards"

still broad but maybe somewhat narrow

"how does a player's notoriety/star power affect the value of their trading cards"

user46190

@waxeagle that's pretty close. now, we have a few questions we can actually ask in sports collecting. what do you think?

@edmastermind29 up to you, I'm generally not in favor of seeding questions, but it should be pretty easy to test whether or not the answer we get are any good

(which is the main argument against seeding)

user46190

@waxeagle my next five questions could be found in chat...great :D (jk of course)

gonna ask the storage question and see how it goes.

user46190

7:36 PM

@waxeagle was gonna ask the scale of card condition...it's honestly something i never thought of. have you ever watched the sports-collectibles infomercial on at nights some ten years ago?

@edmastermind29 no, but I've watched gobs of antiques roadshow :)

user46190

@waxeagle ahh..gotcha.

user46190

is there a standard to the conditions in regards to collecting cards? seems unique based on the grader...

@edmastermind29 I'm...not sure

user46190

@waxeagle that would make my question broad...but perhaps asking how to keep a card in mint condition...

7:41 PM

@edmastermind29 how to keep in mint should be OK.

there are a variety of methods, but they all boil down to basically the same few principals (keep it flat, protect the corners, keep it out of weather)

user46190

@waxeagle i see that being useful

@edmastermind29 yep

0

Q: How should baseball card commons be stored?

Generally when you buy a large number of baseball cards you're going to get a ton of common and uncommon cards. Obviously you want rare or special cards to be kept separate and be well maintained, but the bulk of your collection is going to be common cards. I'm planning to start collecting again...

baseball collecting cards storage

8:02 PM

Pos says no HOF locks starting ASG this year: nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/52491304/ns/sports-baseball

(note: there are several guys who will have HOF careers when they are through but no guys who if they retired tomorrow would be)

user46190

@waxeagle to be honest, this is great for the sport. to put behind the so-called "steroid era" in the rear view mirror...and move on (hopefully)

@edmastermind29 in some ways yes...There are a lot of very exciting, young, seemingly clean guys starting this year

that said, what biogenesis is teaching us is that the sport is still very far from clean

user46190

So, sprinters whose individual bests in the 100m rank best among all others except for one have been tested positive for doping. unfortunately, it seems like only a matter of time before the same happens for Usain Bolt...

user46190

@waxeagle it will never be 100% clean...but can you put a threshold in? ESPN 30 for 30 once did a segment on Ben Johnson testing + for steroids, but as such was the culture of sprinters in that day. All you had to do was drug up until 29 days before an event...the drug fully leaves your body in 28 days and you're tested on race day.

@edmastermind29 yeah. I'm honestly puzzled over how to mentally deal with doping right now. In a sense what we want are the best athletes performing the most amazing feats.

@edmastermind29 yeah I totally get that we won't get to 100% clean. My concern is how many athletes currently are getting caught which I'm under the impression is only a small percentage of the people using.

user46190

8:10 PM

@waxeagle if usain bolt is clean, does the discussion get pushed to the side?

user46190

@waxeagle policies and procedures...

@edmastermind29 the problem (and it's the same one I have with baseball) is that we can never know with any kind of certainty that he is. So yes the discussion matters if only because the clean athletes suffer the specter of the dirty

We knew that Lance was dirty for the longest time, and yet he always hid behind the "I never failed a test" defense. He still hasn't failed a drug test, and yet he had to under pressure from multiple directions come out and confess his guilt.

user46190

@waxeagle i changed my verbiage from "matters"...silly to write it off as such. take lance armstrong for example...he got tons of flak for doping because he was the face of a sport.

(and by "knew" I mean "there were reports that he was" because a lot of folks denied the reports and lived in blissful ignorance because he hadn't been caught by a test yet)

What happens when/if a guy like Chris Davis gets busted next month? Tyson Gay was a part of a USADA enhanced testing program (which included doing anti-doping PSAs and stuff) for crying out loud

user46190

@waxeagle kinda like Ray Lewis?

8:14 PM

@edmastermind29 that kind of thing, yeah

user46190

@waxeagle that made me laugh, but it's so true.

Tyson Gay's response to failing a test? "someone close to me let me down" who would that be? your supplement supplier (please tell me it was Victor Conte)? your clean urine source? who?

user46190

Tyson Gay: "I basically put my trust in someone and I was let down." Something tells me that athletes need to know what they are putting in their body...

@edmastermind29 yes. You are personally responsible for it, and it's your reputation, if you don't know what it is, don't consume it.

don't even let it in the same room as you

are you familiar with Marlon Byrd?

user46190

@waxeagle heard of him...but no longer familiar.

user46190

8:20 PM

Vijay Singh admits to consuming deer antler spray (although he claims he was unaware the supplements he took contained the substance), gets off easy by the PGA Tour, and he sues for being “humiliated, ashamed, ridiculed, scorned and emotionally distraught.”

@edmastermind29 MLB player, had a stint with the Cubs a couple years back, that's how I know him. He's buddies with a guy by the name of Victor Conte (you might know him as the mastermind behind the BALCO lab). He contracted with Conte to provide him supplements, apparently legal ones. MLB told him to stop associating with Conte, he declined. He got hit with a 'roids suspension about 18 months later claimed it was a medicine for a condition he had...Considering his associates I'm obviously dubious.

(why the eff do these guys not go and get a waiver if they have legit medical reasons? why?)

user46190

@waxeagle clearly.

(he's the only player in MLB who still openly associates with Conte)

0

Q: What factors should I consider toward keeping sports cards in mint condition?

I once collected sports cards. My means to store sports cards were to slip the card into a soft-sleeve cover, whether in a binder or a plastic bin made for card collecting. For "more valuable" cards (ie. rookie cards), I would slip the soft-sleeve covered card into a hard-sleeve cover. I have t...

maintenance collecting cards

Jacob Jan Tuinstra

@edmastermind29 Are you looking for borderline questions?

8:35 PM

@JacobJanTuinstra do you see some?

Jacob Jan Tuinstra

@waxeagle about the sports cards....

@JacobJanTuinstra Couple of test questions to see how the topic does.

Jacob Jan Tuinstra

@waxeagle well, it caught my attention.......

Both Ed and I believe the topic to be squarely on topic the problem is that the questions in the topic we've gotten so far aren't very good. We wanted to ask a couple of (hopefully) better ones and see what happened

Jacob Jan Tuinstra

@waxeagle To give it some confidence, I will upvote.

@waxeagle How's it possible for people to close questions, having arep. below 3000?

8:41 PM

@JacobJanTuinstra it's 500 for betas

see sports.stackexchange.com/help/privileges for the priv levels for beta sites

Jacob Jan Tuinstra

9:07 PM

It's time to go to bed. See y'all.

9:49 PM

1

Q: Badminton Racket Sleeves

Buying a badminton racket is easy. Buying the right one is far more difficult. Each time when you buy a new racket however, the new racket is accompanied by a racket sleeve. I always threw them away, because they occupied space in my sports bag. Are those sleeves for show or do they serve a purp...

equipment badminton

0

Q: What do they mean by "Throw" in badminton?

I have often heard the term "Throw" used in badminton. What does it mean when they say they lost the point because of "Throw"?

terminology badminton

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Jul '1316

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