The Clubhouse

10:14 AM

0

Q: How can quality of a domestique be rated?

Various criteria, such as number of wins, UCI points, are good for comparing GC contenders and sprinters. Climbing times and wattage can say a lot about quality of a climber. But quality of domestiques is a very important factor in order to achieve team's objectives in any race, too. I am not a...

cycling

wax eagle

12:45 PM

Ooh Jason Kidd is going to coach the Nets. That should be interesting.

Stack Exchange

1:26 PM

0

Q: Does the maiden over includes extras?

Today, Malinga bowled an over with 4 leg-byes, but it was given a maiden over. Then I searched about that and got the details as, If a bowler delivers a complete over without a run being scored from the bat (even though the opponents may have scored extras by means of byes or leg byes), h...

rules cricket

user46190

1:38 PM

@waxeagle something tells me its too soon...

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 it may well be. But it's arguable that Kidd understands the game better than a lot of people and he's been the wizened vet for a long enough time that the kids on his team probably watched him growing up and he automatically has their respect. Add to that the fact that he's a franchise legend and it's either a recipe for an ultimate disaster or a huge success.

Unfortunately for Jason, I think he has little to gain and a lot to lose :(

it's not a championship roster and nothing he does will change that fact. But there will be expectations and he probably can't deliver.

user46190

@waxeagle i'm not doubting that...but i dont think this is the time or place for him.

user46190

@waxeagle agreed

user46190

@waxeagle and he has to deal with deron williams...and a quasi-circus act to an extent

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 can we say he's the "anti jason kidd" ?

he's a score first PG who has the flash that Kidd doesn't seem to have ever had. Kidd is the guy who played on the US team and I'm not sure he took a shot the entire olympics

user46190

1:45 PM

@waxeagle here's what i dont get...jason kidd is a textbook PG. then we have deron williams and derrick rose who are main scorers and are praised....but russell westbrook gets flak for the same thing, but averages 8 assists a game in his career.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 Westbrook only gets that flak because he shares the court with KD. It's still undeserved, but the impression is that for some reason KD should be the only one finishing possessions and that RW doesn't belong to be scoring. It makes absolutely no sense

(but then it's the same flak I think Chalmers and Rondo get too)

ultimately these guys teams are better when there are 3-5 scoring threats no the floor. A PG can be effective as a non-scorer, but if you can pass and score much the better in my mind.

user46190

@waxeagle westbrook is high effort and raw...imagine how he improves as his game refines. the thunder surely missed him in this years playoffs.

user46190

@waxeagle same flak, sure...but they don't score as much as russell.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 my goodness. The man will be a beast. The combination of effort and talent and developing his mental game alongside one of the best players in the NBA? Potential hall of famer quite easily

user46190

@waxeagle absolutely. westbrook is a bit immature, but that goes away with time. and keep he and durant together as long as you can. losing james harden was big for them.

wax eagle

1:50 PM

@edmastermind29 very true. But Russel is the true #2 option on that team, and really there isn't a dominate 3rd man there now that Harden is gone. (Ibaka needs to be that asap I think).

Rondo is #3 of his big 3 and Chalmers is probably the 4th scoring option in the starting lineup and they have at least 2 bench players that probably rank above him depending on the day (allen, Battier)

user46190

@waxeagle Ibaka is the legit big man on the team, but for defensive reasons. i get why they paid him. but losing harden took away the change of pace they were able to provide (then again, it's tough to pay 4 players top dollar on your roster).

user46190

@waxeagle rondo will play a bigger role once garnett is gone and they don't find a big man presence on offense to replace him. true about chalmers. the heat need a big man if they want to win 6 more championships (given if they win this year...but the spurs aren't making it easy)

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah. The need a legit center. But really there are only a couple of them out there and they are all tied up (except the one who happens to be a FA right now...)

I realize Bosh is almost 7' but he's not a center and doesn't want to be

user46190

@waxeagle birdman gives them a good change of pace...but is nowhere near a starting center.

user46190

@waxeagle he wants to be dirk nowitzki

user46190

1:57 PM

@waxeagle (claiming ignorance, who is this? Dwight Howard?)

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yep. Which is an admirable thing to aspire to

@edmastermind29 yeah

user46190

@waxeagle yeah, dirk is legit.

wax eagle

and I think the heat's only cap space this year is a a mini-midlevel exception

@edmastermind29 he's an all time favorite player of mine and someone who didn't get the respect he deserved until they finally won a title

user46190

@waxeagle russell westbrook, do not follow in the steps of this drama queen. i give him credit that he played injured most of the year....but he is responsible for the firing of stan van gundy and all that went down. he's like the brett favre of the NBA.

user46190

@waxeagle i still dont think he gets the respect he deserves. easily going into the HoF.

wax eagle

2:02 PM

@edmastermind29 Yeah, some of that at least has to do with how European players are perceived in the NBA (wrongly accused of being soft). Agreed that he's a Hall of Famer, should be a landslide

user46190

@waxeagle aka, Pau Gasol?

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 I don't know what to make of him. NBA players are hard to judge for me. I don't have a good cultural context and the salary structure removes money from the picture for the superstars

@edmastermind29 yeah. (for some reason Marc doesn't seem to get the same critiques, maybe because he plays out of the spotlight in relatively anonymous memphis?)

user46190

@waxeagle media misconstrues things....i get that. but dwight's actions speak volumes...and he enables the media. like brett favre....retiring, unretiring, going to training camp whenever he wanted to...nobody would get away with that and we know it.

user46190

(Tim Tebow doesn't necessarily enable the media, just saying)

user46190

@waxeagle Lakers is big time. Memphis is....who's Memphis? lol First WCF this year? Against the Spurs who have won 6 since 1999?

wax eagle

2:08 PM

@edmastermind29 no doubt about that. And really Memphis only got there because Westbrook was hurt.

@edmastermind29 True. And yeah he definitely enables the media al-la favre

user46190

@waxeagle exactly. they played tough against the Spurs, but the Spurs pulled them out.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 Tebow is sort of a victim of his own success...and also being victimized by the fact that the people who share his religious beliefs (or at least are motivated to tune in by them) are just the kinds of people advertisers love to reach and that sports networks have a hard time reaching otherwise

add to that the very powerful christian (or at least conservative) media machine and you have a Tebow media circus that I think he'd rather not have if he could avoid it.

user46190

@waxeagle he could never be left to his own....he will be hounded no matter what he does or where he goes, and that's beyond football. from a Christianity standpoint, this is exactly the platform he wants so he can spread the Gospel. from a football standpoint, he knows he can't throw. great athlete. lots of talent. can't throw. but the thing about him is that he doesn't give up and does everything that's asked of him.

user46190

Imagine if Lebron, or anybody half decent had a work ethic of Tebows?

user46190

Hear his throwing mechanics have been fixed? I've heard that past five seasons ha...and when he started in Denver, there was no proof of such.

wax eagle

2:14 PM

@edmastermind29 That's true. The platform afforded to him is fantastic for his goals as a Christian (which I admire, share and respect)

@edmastermind29 Yeah seriously. And I'm sure Lebron works hard, just not Tebow hard :)

user46190

@waxeagle absolutely. i'm sure he's sick of the media naturally. spiritually, he's licking his chops...but not to get recognition, but to let others know that God so loved the world that He sent his only son.

user46190

@waxeagle exactly. the only three i could put on par with Tebow's work ethic and are fantastic in their own right is Peyton Manning, Kobe Bryant, and Tiger Woods.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah that story comes out every year. The problem is that fixing throwing mechanics is really really really hard. Especially when you have to develop a new, consistent motion that sticks when you'rea bout to get nailed by 3 guys twice your size

user46190

and I used to hate Kobe. the reason i started to respect Kobe is the same reason i started to lose praise for Lebron.

user46190

@waxeagle exactly. you're not thinking about that when you have other things to worry about. and truth be told, he's probably better off not thinking about what he is doing and just play.

wax eagle

2:21 PM

@edmastermind29 yes. He's someone who can make plays, even if they aren't the ones that are the idyllic NFL plays. And I'm wondering if somewhere like NE might be creative enough to make use of him in a general playmaker capacity rather than in a traditional QB role

I think Rex wanted to do soemthing like that, but realized that he was on the chopping block so his ability to try to innovate was severely limited

Belichek has the cache, leeway and job security to do odd, new and different things if he wants to.

user46190

@waxeagle i'm crazy enough to think tebow will succeed brady and do well for at least 5 years after.

wax eagle

Brady wasn't exactly highly regarded coming out of college

user46190

@waxeagle true....Rex took an Eric Mangini built team to the AFC Championship twice. Otherwise, they have been mediocre...and I agree that Rex may have been fired mid season if he tried the Tebow experiment and it didnt work.

user46190

@waxeagle dont forget the camera angles

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah, I'm pretty sure he was already tiptoeing it as it was

user46190

2:26 PM

@waxeagle exactly. i hated what they did to Drew Bledsoe but the decision to go with Tom Brady has more than paid off. the same thing happened to Peyton Manning, but Andrew Luck is once every 20 years and that decision will pay off long term.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 there is that :). But the arguments that he hasn't been successful since then are BS he's been to the SB twice since the scandal. Yeah they've lost both times, but losing in the Superbowl isn't exactly small potatoes

@edmastermind29 Favre and Aaron Rodgers too

the best teams know when to cut bait and go with the new guy

user46190

@waxeagle the Patriots can ball. they are an 11 win team easy. 13 games semi easy. 16 games possibile.

user46190

they lost in 07 was because the Giants had the most heart of any player/team i had ever seen...and willed that victory. they lost in 11 because Gronkowski wasn't 100%.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 AFAICT neither of those would have been helped but better strategery :)

user46190

@waxeagle that's where i disagree. Favre retired, Pack gave Aaron Rodgers the reins, then Favre wanted to come back. I agree with the Packers cutting bait with Favre at this point...he was pulling that nonsense for seasons.

wax eagle

2:31 PM

@edmastermind29 I think they were going to go with Rodgers that season whether Favre retired or not, but I'm not 100% sure. I think they were rapidly getting to a place where they realized that they had to either trade Rodgers and hope Favre stayed a few more years so they could get a new guy in or let Rodgers play

user46190

@waxeagle haha, true. the giants had better execution (and helmet catching) both times...but most teams do not have a player that can stop Gronk. having a gimpy Gronk on the field was more of a decoy than anything...but you still gotta watch him. When Chase Blackburn can cover him, he's not 100%. simply that....until he hits the dance floor, then all bets are off.

user46190

@waxeagle that's fair. i thought Rodgers was good, but i didn't imagine he would be as good as he is.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 I'm not sure anyone realized he was this good

user46190

@waxeagle no....i think the only qb we expected to be that good is peyton.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah, the expectations for Peyton were insane and he's met them admirably

user46190

2:38 PM

@waxeagle remember when Eli was on the chopping block? peppridge farm remembers. secured his starting position. then, remember when we laughed when he said he was just as elite as Tom Brady...then won another super bowl against him? Eli is not Peyton...but he has overcome criticism in his career.

user46190

@waxeagle i was tearing up when he had the closing press conference with the colts....i couldn't believe it was happening.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah. Eli has had an odd career progression, but I don't think anyone can question him now (and if they do he's got a couple of rings he can flash and they go away).

but he's always come off as way more cocky than Peyton (and who wouldn't have a chip on his shoulder when you brother is already an all timer)

user46190

@waxeagle never complained. i'll give him that.

user46190

@waxeagle little brother syndrome

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 it's definitely emotional

@edmastermind29 completely understandable to me. The fact that he's backed up his talk with performance is the real key I think.

You can be as confident or arrogant as you want to be. but if you aren't as good as you claim you're going to look like a fool. Eli is not a fool.

user46190

2:42 PM

@waxeagle i never thought in a million years that he would become a bronco (but Hof QBs start as colts, then become broncos...just as QBs start as 49ers, become Chiefs)...but I haven't been more excited to be a Bronco fan since he came into town.

user46190

@waxeagle backing it up is most important. when Lebron won his ring last year, where did all the haters go?

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 I hear yah. Y'all have as good a shot at the Super Bowl as anyone with him under center. Specially with that defense.

user46190

@waxeagle last year was a fluke and not Peyton's fault. I don't see them going undefeated, but i wouldn't put it too far past them.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 /me pulls up their schedule

user46190

@waxeagle i see a loss to the patriots and a loss to the chiefs. they legitimately can beat anyone else on that schedule. they play the AFC south and the NFC east this year....

wax eagle

2:50 PM

@edmastermind29 yeah I was just thinking a split with the Chiefs is a very real possibility and a loss to NE is probably a good bet. I'd imagine they drop one of the 4 to the NFC east (washington if RG3 is back). The texans might be a legitimate team this year too. But that's pretty much it. Every game on that schedule is winnable and most of them won't even be all that tough

user46190

@waxeagle i dont see the Redskins winning, but they could be competitive. remember, 3-6 before Shanahan wrote them off last year. Texans, legit, sure...but even when they went 10-0 last year, i wasn't all too impressed. i do hope they slaughter the Colts...

wax eagle

3:06 PM

Blackhawks came back from being down 3-1 in the third last night to in win in triple OT. I really wish my NBC came in on my TV. Though my body thanks me that it doesn't.

user46190

@waxeagle was up at 1am last night, went downstairs and saw the game was still on. incredible.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 checked in on it before I went to bed at 11 and I think the hawks were down 1-0 at that point. Woke up at 3ish and took a peek at the score on my phone, was a bit stunned to see the 3OT and 4-3 score. But not at all surprised the 'hawks won another OT game

user46190

@waxeagle i dont watch a lot of hockey, but this has been the most exciting postseason i've seen and heard about in some time.

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah, it's been mega crazy. Hockey is a sport I don't get very excited about, but there is something crazy about the playoffs, especially when it goes to OT. I watched a pretty good chunk of the 'Hawk's last cup run and I was completely engrossed.

user46190

@waxeagle other than american-football, i only watch other sports in the postseason (follow them from a distance during the season). i may not be rooting for anyone and find myself getting excited watching hockey.

wax eagle

3:13 PM

@edmastermind29 when I had cable I watched more stuff. But football is pretty much the only sport with good OTA access year round.

user46190

@waxeagle you wish that for baseball, huh?

wax eagle

@edmastermind29 yeah baseball is rarely available OTA. Some cities have a few game a year, but that's definitely not the case here. It's all on cable

wax eagle

5:16 PM

baseball's draft has gotten more interesting since the new CBA has dramatically limited what teams can spend.

Jon Ericson

5:56 PM

@waxeagle A really good argument can be made that the draft should be abolished. In essence, keep the limited budget model and ditch the taking turns picking players.

wax eagle

@JonEricson that's what we have for international players right now, though it's likely that changes. the issue I have with a system like that is that a team like the yankees likely will sign a significant number of the best players to sub par contracts because those guys don't want to play for the royals

user46190

Willis McGahee cut by the Broncos...

user46190

@waxeagle competitive balance...

wax eagle

Consider colleges who don't even pay their athletes the best athletes go to the best schools.

@edmastermind29 yep. And in a lot of ways it's absolutely vital for sports leagues to function (in others not so much)

Although I see that that concept is shot past as marketing by the article writer

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle Bad for the Royals, but good for the players who don't want to play for them.

wax eagle

6:06 PM

@JonEricson very true.

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle True. I suppose something would need to be done to prevent the situation where small-town teams are just there for city teams to beat up on. (Like the St. Louis Browns and Montreal Expos.)

wax eagle

@JonEricson significantly larger bonus pools would do that. Again they are experimenting with something like this for international signings. This past season everyone got the same amount, this year the pools are based on your draft standing

and it's a big difference between 1 and 30

however the rules are funky and older latin players and all asian players are not signed against that pool

a 100k difference might not entice a would be Yankee to come to KC, but a million dollar difference might.

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle Especially since the player knows they will have free-agency waiting for them if they make it.

wax eagle

@JonEricson yep. And if salaries remain uncapped (a likelihood in baseball), there will always be the mega market teams with money to burn.

the Angels and Dodgers have truckloads of money right now. It's flat crazy

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle Tell me about it. And what has it bought them? :-(

wax eagle

6:16 PM

nada mucho.

at least you can see quality baseball when the A's and Giants come to town?

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle Don't rub it in. (I like the A's though. They were my team during the earthquake series when we lived in San Jose.)

wax eagle

(at least)one more thing about abolishing the draft. You would see a lot more teams offering potential stars major league deals. Which might have interesting roster consequences

@JonEricson The nerd in me has loved the A's since I read moneyball :)

do you guys go to any games?

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle We go to the Dodgers once a year. I'd like to go to more, but our lives are so busy.

wax eagle

@JonEricson I understand that. We finally made it to Wrigley this year (finally were in town with no plans when the Cubs were). But I doubt we'll figure out how to make it down to Atlanta to catch a Braves game. It's been a couple of years since I've been able to again. It's a lot of effort to fit that into a busy life

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle I've considered getting partial season tickets, but I know my co-worker spends a ton of time selling off his Lakers and Clippers tickets so that he doesn't have to go to the games. That sounds like a drag.

wax eagle

6:27 PM

back to draft. Would a draftless system favor the mid level prospects more than the top tier guys? Right now top tier talents have a price attached to them via their draft slot and a team usually takes the best available player. If a team has to budget would too many teams avoid the top tier talents and drive up the price in the middle tier while destroying the market for the top tier guys?

@JonEricson yeah I I get that.

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle One suggestion in the article I linked to was to allow teams to trade portions of their bonus pools. That way a team that isn't going to invest in signing new players can get something from teams that want to spend the money on prospects.

wax eagle

A potentially winning strategy for a draftless system: Sign quantity over quality. Knowing a smaller percentage but potentially more overall players will pan out. Trade these players in mass for high bonus guys. Let the other teams spend huge amounts up front and you reap the benefits

@JonEricson I'd be good with that. I think MLB needs to start letting teams trade more of their draft picks anyways. So being able to trade bonus money would be the equivalent

But, comparing the baseball draft to the drafts in any other sport isn't fair. In the other sports you expect draftees, especially first rounders to be instant impact guys. In baseball even the best players spend at least a year in the minors if not 2-3. Which makes trading picks a far more interesting study in economics

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle I think that would work. How many stars were 3rd or 4th rounders? (There might be some selection bias here, however. ;)

wax eagle

@JonEricson sure. Because of the odditities of the draft there are MLB stars that have come from all over the place. Signability issues can drop your draft stock 2-3 rounds easy.

HSer with a scholarship offer in baseball or another sport, two sport star in college, college junior willing to go back for another year...

Stack Exchange

11:38 PM

0

Q: British equivalent of USAG JO

In gymnastics, what is the British equivalent of the USA Gymnastics Junior Olympic program of compulsory and optional levels? Where can I find a simple list of the skills involved in each level?

international-sports

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