The Nineteenth Byte

Bubbler

02:21

bad idea: for loop sets local variable __break__=True if it ends with a break, False otherwise

another bad idea: for loop is an expression that evaluates to the value of __break__ above

Rydwolf Programs

02:36

The latter sounds like a fairly reasonable option

Definitely more readable than Python's way of doing it

("for else"? else what?)

Unrelated String

~~for: ... default: ...~~

Rydwolf Programs

I ran into at least one instance recently where I actually found a use for a for/else sort of thing

Unrelated String

@Bbrk24 that would definitely be of marginal utility

@RydwolfPrograms yeah honestly it's really useful

any is useful, bare for loops are useful, why not both

though i guess the most direct way to implement that would be the for-has-a-boolean-return idea lol

Rydwolf Programs

Alternatively break could be a keyword/function that takes an argument that the for loop returns

And then a default could be specified somewhere

Unrelated String

true

or it could just implicitly lift to an optional type

Rydwolf Programs

02:48

Oh true

Bubbler

Rust does that with break in loop, but not for or while, which is sad

Rydwolf Programs

Ooh it does?

That's cool

Bubbler

let a = 0; let x = loop { if a == 10 { break a; } a += 1; }; works

Unrelated String

i'm also partial to for loops just effectively being some kind of generator map expression, in which case you could have the default return from each iteration be nothing and have a fold that doesn't evaluate past the first something

Rydwolf Programs

Not very performant tho without a lot of optimization

Bubbler

02:51

@UnrelatedString Did you mean: .iter().find_map()

Unrelated String

yeah that sounds pretty likely :P

@RydwolfPrograms this kind of stuff is expressive enough that making it optimize should be a priority

Rydwolf Programs

03:23

CMQ: Go lick a nintendo switch cartridge

They're made intentionally bitter

Unrelated String

incredibly so from what i've heard

Aiden Chow

07:04

ok what kinda idea is that... what compelled u to think about licking a cartridge in the first place???

lyxal

07:21

@AidenChow count

er argument: why not?

What thoughts aren't compelling you to devour Nintendo switch cartridges?

mousetail

07:41

CMM Do you think the staging ground work work well for our site, and could it replace the sandbox?

Aiden Chow

08:02

@lyxal ya know, maybe like the fact that cartridges arent meant to be licked and/or eaten??

@mousetail wats staging ground

why tf did the search query "licking nintendo switch cartridge" actually have results???

and they are all news articles?? what

is this like an actual trend or what, ppl r doing this??

someone plz explain, like huh??

Unrelated String

08:18

it was pretty big news that they lined up an exceptionally bitter coating as an anti-licking measure

so the rest is obvious :P

lyxal

@AidenChow you think this is bad? This? This chicanery? People have done worse! Those tide pods! Are you telling me people just happen to eat washing detergent like that? No! It orchestrated it! Social media! It encouraged people to pour sleeping medication on chicken!

Unrelated String

it took me a couple seconds to figure out that you didn't mean live chickens with the last bit and i was very deeply confused

like oh when the hell did i miss that

it was so funny the first time i ran into that in the wild because once i noticed who it was i had to reread the whole thing in his voice

lyxal

It's hard to think that the tide pod challenge was a thing before tiktok was extremely popular

Unrelated String

what's new and unique about tiktok is how monolithically widespread it's gotten and how far the recommendation algorithm goes
but wackass viral trends have a long and storied history on youtube and twitter

reminds me what the fuck was vine

lyxal

@UnrelatedString Only a spoonful!

Unrelated String

08:30

i remember when it was relatively new and i remember when it died but i know literally nothing about it except the comically large spoon meme

lyxal

What I remember about vine is those zack king vines

And I didn't even have vine

I only know about vine from watching stuff reposted to youtube lol

Unrelated String

lol

Aiden Chow

oh bruh tide pods, that was certainly a thing

lyxal

@UnrelatedString yee I know it's that it was the first stupid trend I was old enough to know enough to call people stupid for doing it lol

Unrelated String

nice

Aiden Chow

08:36

guys i have this desmos answer to the sonar impostor q that i think is working but not entirely sure cuz its taking forever to run like most of the test cases, but for the test cases that it could run in reasonable time it seems to be working... u think its fine for me to post or no

lyxal

Is it theoretically correct?

Aiden Chow

@lyxal errrr my code is hard to explain but its basically just brute force, its probably correct??

Unrelated String

yeah as long as you understand what it's doing it should be fine

lyxal

@AidenChow then it's fine

Unrelated String

check my brachylog post history :P

Aiden Chow

08:39

alr just making sure, now time to actually golf my code cuz i was actually just making sure before i spend effort to golf lmfao

also i make my own smaller test case and check with pre-existing answers and it seem to match my program, gives me a little confidence that my program is doing the correct thing lol

time to change my somewhat sensically named variables to completely not understandable one letter variables lmao

Unrelated String

lmao

Aiden Chow

09:14

ayy there we go, the most complicated desmos code ive written in a while: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/259429/…

just brute force but still a pain to plan out lmfao

really showcases how important base conversion is in brute force in desmos lol

i literally put base conversion as a helper function in my code

lyxal

@AidenChow I once posted an answer that timed out for anything larger than a 2x2 matrix lol

On a challenge where programs would be expected to go to at least 100x100 matrices

Ginger

11:01

ahoy

lyxal

11:43

!

Ginger

12:20

rabbit time

mousetail

12:33

Repeating my CMM, do you guys think the staging ground could replace the sandbox? It's nice that you get badges for reviewing but maybe not ideal that one approve is enough to publish

Ginger

hmmmmmm

maybe we could ask the devs nicely to increase the approves for us? we're already special-cased (although I forget how) :p

it is finally time to work on Rabbit's type resolver

now that I have actual functioning types

mousetail

@Ginger I don't think it's likely they'll be willing to change much. Especially since the whole UI seems to be built around the "publish now" button

Ginger

F

mousetail

They built it for stack overflow only, but I thought it might fit here too

If we ask nicely

Bbrk24

Github seems to be having issues -- you can pull but not push

lyxal

12:49

looks like it

Bbrk24

github.com/orgs/community/discussions/…

Ginger

13:03

well, I have finally managed to completely break the Kotlin language server's typechecker

it's pretty much denying reality now

to fix it I'd have to recompile, but I can't, because errors

Bbrk24

I was about to say "Have you tried restarting OmniSharp?" but

that's C# not Kotlin

Ginger

I'm amused by the fact that githubstatus.com/'s favicon is the same one GitHub uses on a PR when workflows are running

lyxal

13:21

github's back

Ginger

cool

Rydwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString Really? I licked it and it was like, not that bitter. Faded away after a few seconds, and was more sweet than anything

@mousetail What staging ground

lyxal

@RydwolfPrograms now I'm curious as to why you decided to in the first place

no judgment or anything, just wondering what was the triggering action

Bbrk24

It was a thing when the Switch first came out

mousetail

34

Q: Staging Ground Workflow: Question Lifecycle

Earlier this year, we wrote several posts about various user workflows in the Staging Ground. This post will pull a number of those elements together to focus on the overall question lifecycle, plus we will identify any changes that have been made since the previous posts. The previous posts can ...

I've been beta testing it and it seems very nice

Bbrk24

13:25

a lot of people decided to test for themselves whether the cartridges are really bitter

lyxal

No I get why the majority of people might do so

it's just that it sounds like this was a recent thing the wolf did

so I'm wondering what happened to make this a thing

Bbrk24

@Ginger Now that it's back, the favicon changed to the "workflow passed" icon

Ginger

lol

Rydwolf Programs

13:42

@lyxal To see how strong my sense of taste is for bitter

Apparently not very strong

(It's genetic)

You know what

I feel like working on Hunter-Gatherer KotH

I think the tool system needs improvement first of all

Maybe I can add some more crops

Ooh...maybe even bees, which could double as a defensive weapon

Maybe anyone who passes within two tiles of a beehive gets swarmed by bees, unless the bees know them already

So you could put bee nests spaced out around your camp, and get defense without needing to invest in (breakable) walls

Seggan

YES

Rydwolf Programs

The goal for this KotH, as a reminder, is to be too complex. So bots will be forced to specialize, just since it would take so long to design them otherwise

So bees would fit

Bbrk24

I've never participated in a KotH before

Rydwolf Programs

A lot of people probably haven't, there haven't been many recently

mousetail

@Bbrk24 Mine will launch in a few days: koth.mousetail.nl

Rydwolf Programs

13:53

I'm thinking I'll probably wait for a simpler more successful one and piggyback off that, since if someone's first KotH is one intentionally designed to be overwhelmingly complicated, that maybe won't make a great impression :p

mousetail

Maybe that will be mine :)

Bbrk24

Point of current annoyance: npm semver.intersect doesn't take two ranges and return the intersection. It takes two ranges and returns a boolean indicating whether the intersection is non-empty.

Rydwolf Programs

lol

mousetail

It makes sense considering what it's used for

but yea it's annoying if you want the other thing

Rydwolf Programs

IMO any time your function returns a bool, you can probably make it return more information

Mainly the case in golfing languages, but still tends to be sensible in non-golflangs

Bbrk24

13:59

If it did the former, I could find the intersection of several ranges in O(n). With the current interface, to determine whether it exists is O(n^2) I think

mousetail

Function should be named "intersects" instead of "intersect"

or "isIntersecting"

Rydwolf Programs

Nah, function names should be verbs

^^

mousetail

intersects is a verb

Rydwolf Programs

Yeah but like...not really

Bbrk24

oh it is called intersects my bad

Rydwolf Programs

14:00

I mean you can say "he intersects this and that" but you usually don't use third person in library names

mousetail

The use case for finding a semver range intersection seems extremely niche. Usually you just want to know if some packages are compatible

@RydwolfPrograms "I intersect with her"

Rydwolf Programs

Yeah intersect is a verb

intersects is not

Bbrk24

Context: I am trying to scan a package-lock.json and find the valid node versions for the packages contained within. That means I have to grab the supported node versions and then intersect them

Rydwolf Programs

Okay wait yeah it is in this context, but not an imperative verb

Which is what people mean

mousetail

You would use intersects for a boolean always

Rydwolf Programs

14:02

@mousetail Idk about that...I'd assume most of the time when you want to see if they're compatible, you also want to see which version is compatible

It's like if I asked "can you open that door for me" and you were like "I sure can" and continued typing

Bbrk24

Well here's the implementation github.com/npm/node-semver/blob/main/classes/range.js#L149 . It seems to just get their comparators and call intersects on that so I have to check there

@RydwolfPrograms "Do you know the time?" "Yes."

github.com/npm/node-semver/blob/main/classes/comparator.js#L76

Rydwolf Programs

14:21

Okay, I'm trying to decide if rivers/the ocean should have beaches

Advantages: They can be seen from further away, and less land is hydrated for agriculture purposes, making ocean-adjacent bases less OP
Disadvantages: Waste of a terrain type, little gameplay function

Rydwolf Programs

14:36

Should I have different crop types?

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Play turn-less chess king-of-the-hill chess In this challenge, you'll write a chess bot...but with a twist. Your bot can move at any time, so the faster you can think, the faster you can move. You'll write code for a custom CPU (so that precise timing is possible), and try to checkmate your oppo...

Rydwolf Programs

I think ^ has a ton of potential

I'll design a custom machine code, and a higher level language that transpiles to it (to lower the entry barrier)

mousetail

@SandboxPosts Make the CPU ><>

Bbrk24

15:00

I have written some (completely untested) code for semver range intersection

New Posts

15:12

0

Q: How many xor'ed waves?

In this challenge, you're given a list of overlapping waves. Each wave is a finite list with n truthy values, then n falsy values, then n truthy and so on, where n is the wavelength (or half the wavelength i guess, but it really doesn't matter in this challenge). The values of a wave may have an ...

code-golf integer binary

Deadcode

Would it be acceptable voting etiquette to upvote somebody's answer because it inspired me to outgolf them, not because I like their actual answer per se? I feel bad about not upvoting it... feels unsportsmanlike, but not sure if it'd be proper to upvote it either.

Rydwolf Programs

Sure. You can upvote for whatever reasons you want, and more rep means making more people happy, it's a win-win

Deadcode

Alright. :-)

Rydwolf Programs

I don't think there's really all that much voting etiquette, most upvotes come from random drive-by HNQ voting, so if you're thinking at all about why you're voting for things, you're doing it more right than most people :p

Bbrk24

> getIntersection('^12.22 || >=14', '^12 || ^14 || >=16').toString()
'>=12.22.0 <13.0.0-0||>=14.0.0 <15.0.0-0||>=16.0.0'

Other than the part where it could be using ^ in its output -- which is on semver, not me -- this works

Ginger

15:51

mmm 93 compile errors

delicious

Bbrk24

github.com/bbrk24/engine-check/blob/master/getIntersection.js

There's the getIntersection function

Ginger

16:16

I have finally nuked my janky-ass annotation processor

all it was doing was causing problems

Rydwolf Programs

16:32

Why haven't you made a room for Rabbit

Seems like that'd make more sense than scattering discussion of it all through TNB and TST

Seggan

^ ^^

@Ginger Progress in programming is not writing more code, it is deleting bad code and rewriting it

Ginger

16:47

@RydwolfPrograms haven't gotten around to it :p

Rabbit

Discussion of the Rabbit programming language.

ok, rabbit room has been made

Seggan

22:54

chatexchange quiet today

lyxal

hi

Bbrk24

hlo

lyxal

how to upset a lot of internet users:

Bbrk24

How do you actually pronounce "vyxal"? I've always said /"vIk.sl=/ in my head but

lyxal

lyxal with a v

Bbrk24

23:09

that helps me none

lyxal

if anything, it should tell you all you need to know

wrong link

17

A: The many users of CGCC

Wow, y'all with your usernames that actually have meaning. I literally just spent 5 minutes typing random keys until I ended up with something I deemed "cool" and "ironic". Having said that, I did want to make sure the letters L and X were present (for maximum coolness) and that there was a name ...

Bbrk24

ah okay

I found a typo within ten seconds of looking at the vyxal wiki

> functions are first-class membesr in Vyxal

oh is it not actually a wiki? 🤔

lyxal

Wiki?

Bbrk24

I thought vyxapedia was a wiki for some reason

lyxal

lol

Bbrk24

23:22

anyways yeah. membesr

hyper-neutrino

it has the pedia part of wikipedia but that is notably not the wiki part of wikipedia

:P

anyway, thanks, I'll fix that right away

Bbrk24

Unrelatedly, I've been debating whether to add comments to Trilangle. If so, they'd be line-comments starting with ; (as in many assemblies or lisps). I don't have any other plans for the semicolon and I already use it for comments in the pseudo-assembly syntax, but at the same time it doesn't necessarily feel like a feature that fits in the language

lyxal

Would that only be in expanded form?

Bbrk24

Yeah, the condensed form would remove it

Oh here's one: what do you think the condensed form of this program should be?

  #
 ! @

It's not #!@, because the interpreter skips the first line of the program if it starts with #!. So the condensed form is actually four characters, # !@

I originally did this to support Unix-style shebangs, but you could abuse this feature to put some plaintext before a program.

Mm, I just thought of a good reason not to add comments: It would break code like this bbrk24.github.io/Trilangle/#%22%3B%40o that uses semicolon as the operand to a push instruction

Currently unused characters include backtick, =;[], and most letters and numbers. So I have plenty of room to expand the instruction set

Rabbit

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