The Nineteenth Byte

Simd

7:45 AM

Hi all

@reerectsbespanglingaachen awesome:)

New Posts

8:03 AM

0

Q: ASCII-art polygons to GeoJSON coordinates

We're going to turn ascii art versions of polygons into their equivalent GeoJSON. The ASCII shape language The input ASCII language only has 3 possible characters: * signifies a vertex - signifies a horizontal line | signifies a vertical line A * will never be directly adjacent to another * (bu...

UndoneStudios

8:58 AM

@reerectsbespanglingaachen you forgot to update your profile

mathcat

9:57 AM

Are there any reasons to prohibit global vars in koths?

mousetail

I can see it if the KOTH is intended to be stateless, or if you want it to be resumable

lyxal

@mathcat Limiting the ability for bots to screw around with other bots and the runner

mathcat

Isn't that covered by the standard loopholes?

lyxal

Just makes sure there's no sneaky business

And prevents accidental chicanery as well

mousetail

In what language can global variables mess with each-other? Neither python nor JS, the 2 most popular KOTH languages, allow this

lyxal

10:04 AM

Just in case a bot reads from a global and another changes that global

mousetail

But "globals" are still local to the module

Simd

10:29 AM

Anytime fancy doing a Julia answer to my challenge? I think it's pretty well suited to it

Although assembly would of course be cooler :)

reerects bespangling aachen

@UndoneStudios Don't know what you're talking about :P

Simd

11:42 AM

A boring coding question. If I have functions that needs 8 variables defined should it have 8 arguments or is there a cleverer way of doing it?

It looks very messy as is

mousetail

What language?

Adám

12:19 PM

@Simd Depending on the language, you might be able to take an object as argument, and extract the parameters from that.

Simd

@Adám this is for python

@mousetail python, sorry I should have said

mousetail

@Simd You can use the , *, syntax to force the use of keyword arguments

Simd

@mousetail good point. But I still have then have 8 arguments to my function

And that function calls another function that needs 7 of them!

mousetail

8 is ok number, as long as they are keyword arguments to keep them readable

UndoneStudios

@cairdcoinheringaahing If you changed back to caird what's the point of clarifying

Simd

12:26 PM

@mousetail it doesn't really fit in a pep approved line length

mousetail

You can put them on multiple lines

Simd

You mean by just splitting on commas?

mousetail

yes

Simd

You are right

mousetail

black will do it for you

Simd

12:27 PM

Yes I love black :)

It's so remorseless

UndoneStudios

@Simd Try using * to have multiple args and then assign the variables to the tuple

Adám

@Simd So? Doesn't Python have dictionaries?

mousetail

Python doesn't have dict unpacking so it's really inconvenient, and you lose type safety

Creating a dataclass can work for a similar effect though

UndoneStudios

like this

def x(*n):
    a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h=n
    print(a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h)

helps?

mousetail

@UndoneStudios That completely destroys readability

Now the docstring will be meaningless

UndoneStudios

12:33 PM

@mousetail By saying that, does that mean you're an amateur Python programmer who relies on reading the docstring?

@mousetail Besides Python has blessed you with the power of comments

mousetail

What? Every programer reads the dosstring

Every IDE shows docstrings when you hover over methods

it's super useful

UndoneStudios

I mostly don''t

Simd

@Adám I could put them all in a dictionary. Is that a recommended style?

mousetail

You are a amateur though

UndoneStudios

I was programming a 3D module

mousetail

12:34 PM

@Simd In python very much no

UndoneStudios

based on a Scratch tutorial

but I never read a single docstring

that too I was using turtle

Simd

@mousetail that sounds like the right thing to do. Thank you

UndoneStudios

def x(*n):
    """Note that some grumpy programmers want a better docstring"""
    a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h=n
    print(a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h)

Simd

No one suggested global variables :)

Adám

@Simd I don't Python, but it is becoming a common style for modern APLers. We don't care about type safety, though.

UndoneStudios

12:36 PM

@Simd I was about to, until @mousetail interrupted me

Simd

@UndoneStudios you are the maverick in the class

mousetail

Global variables are bad

Simd

@mousetail yes. It was a joke

UndoneStudios

@mousetail But I agree with this. You have to use global everywhere

mousetail

I know you know, just unsure if undone knows

@UndoneStudios Not if you only use them as input

still a very bad idea though

Simd

12:37 PM

To be fair to undone, (s)he isn't done yet

UndoneStudios

@mousetail I think I should change my username with how you lowercased it and how it now looks bad as you wrote it

@Simd I'm a "he"

Simd

Next question, how should I write my variable names

UndoneStudios

@Simd Semantically

or atleast conforming to PEP 8

Simd

likeThisAndThat or like_this_and_that or something else?

UndoneStudios

@Simd former

Even PascalCase could do

mousetail

12:39 PM

Like this: youtube.com/watch?v=-J3wNP6u5YU

UndoneStudios

but I recommend camelCase

Simd

peps.python.org/pep-0008 has my_list

mousetail

@Simd In python variables are written in snake_case

UndoneStudios

Then use that if you hate Pascal and camelCases

Simd

@mousetail thanks. How about functions?

lyxal

12:42 PM

@Simd up to you really. Just make sure you're consistent. That's the important part

UndoneStudios

@Simd camelCase

mousetail

@Simd Functions also, snake_case but classes are CamelCase

Simd

@lyxal that's a very good point

@mousetail ah thanks!

UndoneStudios

xkcd.com/1960/…

Simd

Isn't it camelCase?

UndoneStudios

12:42 PM

Explains nicely if not golfing

mousetail

@lyxal Consitency with library code is also important though

lyxal

@mousetail of course. I more mean once you pick a style for whatever reason, stick with it.

mousetail

Yep

from PEP8:

Function names should be lowercase, with words separated by underscores as necessary to improve readability.

mixedCase is allowed only in contexts where that’s already the prevailing style (e.g. threading.py), to retain backwards compatibility.

UndoneStudios

I stick with a style in which I do not have a particular style to stick to

mousetail

pep8.org/#function-names

Simd

12:44 PM

@mousetail thanks!

lyxal

> For example, do not rely on CPython’s efficient implementation of in-place string concatenation for statements in the form a += b or a = a + b. This optimization is fragile even in CPython (it only works for some types) and isn’t present at all in implementations that don’t use refcounting. In performance sensitive parts of the library, the ''.join() form should be used instead. This will ensure that concatenation occurs in linear time across various implementations.

TIL

Simd

That's interesting

UndoneStudios

@lyxal will help you in fastest-code

lyxal

pep8.org/#programming-recommendations is the source

mousetail

Nobody uses python in fastest code though

UndoneStudios

12:46 PM

@mousetail I did, and I regret it

mousetail

Maybe pypy but not cPython

@mousetail CPython

cpYthon

heresy!

@mousetail CpYtHoN

@lyxal Something's wrong with your text

but yes, it's not golfy

lyxal

12:48 PM

it's an image

UndoneStudios

so spaces are dots?

lyxal

yes

UndoneStudios

@lyxal strange

One more thing: I was working on a 3D module, this is the source code (unreleased)

from turtle import *

CAM_X, CAM_Y, CAM_Z, NP = 0, 0, 0, 30
sx1, sy1, sz1, sx2, sy2, sz2 = 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
VF = 150
pensize(1);speed(0)
Plane = Screen()
Size = Plane.screensize()
XSize = Size[0]
YSize = Size[1]

def pset_1(x1, y1, z1):global sx1, sy1, sz1;sx1, sy1, sz1 = x1, y1, z1
def psset_1(x1, y1):global sx1, sy1;sx1, sy1 = x1, y1
def pset_2(x2, y2, z2):global sx2, sy2, sz2;sx2, sy2, sz2 = x2, y2, z2
def psset_2(x2, y2):global sx2, sy2;sx2, sy2 = x2, y2

def zclip():
global sx1, sy1, sz1, sx2, sy2, sz2, NP

huh markdown sucks

hope this is better

mousetail

@UndoneStudios All lines must start with 4 spaces

UndoneStudios

@mousetail Did that, but for some reason it didn't work

mousetail

12:56 PM

There is probably one line that has 3 spaces

UndoneStudios

I literally indented with 4 spaces

@mousetail there isn't

mousetail

Anyway this might be more suitable to codereview.se

UndoneStudios

what

mousetail

I did not expect that to onebox in that way

UndoneStudios

No I meant which question

mathcat

1:12 PM

@mousetail pep 8 in one sentence:

hi

hi

look I have flower

cool

Favourite hat so far .P

Adám

1:27 PM

@mousetail Heh, with my user style, CR's onebox almost becomes just the red dot.

mousetail

It's a work of art

What user style do you use? That looks quite nice

Adám

raw.githubusercontent.com/dzaima/PPCGDark/master/…

Simd

2:41 PM

@mousetail we used to get answers in rpython

Also nim!

Not sure why they stopped

mousetail

Because not only is the performance bad, you have very little control over it, making it less interesting to optimize

Simd

@mousetail what was that in reply to?

caird coinheringaahing

3:00 PM

Ngl, I''ve been confused about how I kept getting the Heads Up hat on seemingly random sites, before I remembered about Charcoal :P

mousetail

3:15 PM

Is there a tips for fastest-code

The Thonnu

@mousetail doesn't look like it

mousetail

Hmmm I might post it

The Thonnu

This search doesn't bring up any results either

Simd

@mousetail excellent idea

The Thonnu

Is it going to be language-specific or just general?

mousetail

3:26 PM

General

Simd

The main tip is to use Julia :)

mousetail

Well the score is per language so language choice doesn't really help

The Thonnu

Sounds like a good idea

Simd

@mousetail that's a good point

Also rust is good if you can actually understand it

I am really glad that @cairdcoinheringaahing has shown we don't have to fear 128 bits

caird coinheringaahing

What did I do?

New Posts

3:31 PM

0

Q: Tips for imporving your score in fastest code challenges

Fastest code is a scoring method on this site where the goal to write code that is as fast as possible. From the tag wiki: The winner of a fastest-code challenge is determined by the runtime performance of the submissions. For fairness, all submissions should be benchmarked on the same machine, ...

tips fastest-code

Simd

@cairdcoinheringaahing gave an awesome C answer

caird coinheringaahing

I have never answered once with C :P

Simd

Oops...wrong person starting with a C

I meant ceilingcat

6

A: Implement the Riemann R function

C (gcc), 193 183 173 165 154 bytes typedef _Float128 X;X logq(X);i,k;X r(X x){X y=k=1,q,a=1;for(;k<200;y-=(ldexp(a*=logq(x)/k++,-k)-a)/q)for(i=99,q=0;--i;)q+=(i%2?k:-k)*pow(i,~k);return y;} Try it online! This estimates the Riemann R function from the Gram series. -1 thanks to @Simd. Slightly g...

caird coinheringaahing

That makes more sense :P

Simd

I just really like how little overhead there is

@cairdcoinheringaahing sorry for confusing you with a cat

caird coinheringaahing

3:36 PM

The gravest of sins, truly :P

Simd

And how many warnings you get :)

@cairdcoinheringaahing the shame

I really hope to get at least a Rust and a Julia answer soon

mathcat

I'm trying to imagine a universe where caird posts C answers.

Simd

:) what does it look like?

caird coinheringaahing

I mean, I could, but they'd never be competitive

Simd

What's your favourite language?

caird coinheringaahing

3:42 PM

That depends on your definition of "favourite" :P

To use in golf, that I've created, to use in practical use, etc.

Simd

One from each please :)

caird coinheringaahing

Jelly, probably Rutger, and Python :P

Simd

I need to look up Rutger

caird coinheringaahing

github.com/cairdcoinheringaahing/Rutger

Simd

JHT rating ?

caird coinheringaahing

3:49 PM

JHT has a bunch of challenges. The JHT rating is A-B, where A is the number of those challenges I've done in that lang, and B is the total byte count

Simd

Thanks

I don't quite get the jelly cult I am sad to admit

I am going to go and fight with pandas soon....gulp

mousetail

Aren't pandas endangered? I'd avoid fighting them

caird coinheringaahing

@Simd It's not really a cult :P

mousetail

When you try to create benchmarks for a fastest code tip and the "bad" example is significantly faster than the good example

Simd

4:05 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing shame :)

how is it different from a cult?

@mousetail :)

@mousetail well if they will steal my bamboo!

caird coinheringaahing

@Simd We're acknowledged by the CGCC government, meaning we're a religion, not a cult :P

Simd

@cairdcoinheringaahing then you have rights!

caird coinheringaahing

There are different forms of language organisations: Vyxal is a corporation, Jelly is a religion, etc. :P

Simd

:)

mathcat

4:26 PM

I've always thought of Pyth as an undercover gangsta.

don't ask me why

caird coinheringaahing

The Pyth mafia

mousetail

Rust is a cult for sure

Ginger

JS is a therapy group :p

hyper-neutrino

JS is the reason I need therapy /j

caird coinheringaahing

Vyxal: Corporation
Jelly: Religion
Pyth: Mafia
Rust: Cult
JS: Therapy

What else?

Ginger

4:36 PM

~~C: Government~~

mathcat

Eliminate C!

mousetail

4:53 PM

Python: Fraternity

mathcat

All haskellers are BFFs too

Simd

5:06 PM

All I know about JS is from wtfjs

@mathcat C23 will save us! (Umm...)

Ginger

5:36 PM

CMQ: Can a GNU sed answer specify a file to take input from?

I read this answer as saying that if a certain file is required for an answer that counts as a new dialect of the language

Thoughts???

Ginger

6:12 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing what do you think? I need to know this to post an answer

Ginger

6:32 PM

Also: What happened to Best Of 2022???

mousetail

I hope it will appear in the next few days

Ginger

I'll do it, one second

Okay, ready to post

(@hyper-neutrino @cairdcoinheringaahing @RadvylfPrograms @Bubbler @pxeger @lyxal @emanresuA)

mousetail

That was fast

Ginger

@mousetail yeah, I (mostly) copied last year's text, which is (mostly) a copy of 2020's text :p

mousetail

Categories will stay the same?

Ginger

6:38 PM

that depends on what ones are proposed

to clarify, the question I am ready to post is the category request one

mousetail

Oh right

Ginger

but I'm not going to post w/o approval from the mods/ROs

so I'm waiting for that right now

hyper-neutrino

gonna be honest, I don't actually remember exactly how to run the Best Of cuz I wasn't really involved last year besides putting up all of the voting comments. @WheatWizard sorry to bother you but I think you posted the posts themselves last year so I'll summon you

Ginger

~~I'm sure it's not very hard~~

mousetail

Seems PXeger hosted it last year

Ginger

6:41 PM

I want to do it this year

~~not because of rep or anything of course, I just want to contribute to the community~~

mousetail

It's all on meta so there is no rep

Ginger

There is reputation, and then there is reputation.

mousetail

True

I aim to win every category this year

Ginger

good luck d:

mousetail

6:54 PM

Also why close the "call for categories" as duplicate?

caird coinheringaahing

I can run it if needed

mousetail

Hmmm sadly I'm not sure if I can qualify for every category. Stupid me posting a single answer in 2021 so I'm not technically a rookie

mathcat

Can somebody link Best of 2021?

caird coinheringaahing

@Ginger Feel free to run it. Call for categories for 2 weeks, then nominations for 2 weeks, then voting for another 2 weeks is the standard IIRC

14

Q: Best Of CGCC 2021 - Call for categories

Well, 2021's come to an end, and so that means: Best of 2021! In this thread, we'll consolidate the categories for our Best Posts of 2021, and eventually we'll vote on which posts will win for each category. In this thread, we are looking for two things: Categories to classify exceptional posts ...

discussion best-of

mathcat

Also, is there a chatroom?

mousetail

7:06 PM

Do we expect sufficient spam around this topic as to make it unsuitable for here?

caird coinheringaahing

What topic?

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing best-of, I s'pose.

caird coinheringaahing

@mathcat There's usually a new one each year

Neil

7:23 PM

@pxeger thanks for that, but I messed up, so would you mind updating Charcoal on ATO to 49787e5e9011153d0dc26c712184603ae0c39641?

Ginger

@cairdcoinheringaahing Cool! Posting now...

New Posts

0

Q: Best of CGCC 2022 - Call for categories

Well, 2022's come to an end, and so that means: Best of 2022! In this thread, we'll consolidate the categories for our Best Posts of 2022, and eventually we'll vote on which posts will win for each category. In this thread, we are looking for two things: Categories to classify exceptional posts ...

discussion best-of

Ginger

Category proposals for Best of CGCC 2022 have begun!

@cairdcoinheringaahing pin?

(also, could someone remind me once the two weeks is up? I'm not sure if I'll actually remember myself q:)

emanresu A

Don't worry, Wheat Wizard didn't either

Ginger

lol

emanresu A

7:34 PM

Community wiki maybe?

Ginger

the last one wasn't

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ginger

Best Of CGCC 2022

Discussion & bounties for Best Of CGCC 2022! codegolf.meta.sta...

@hyper-neutrino Is this worthy of an event in the events list?

hyper-neutrino

yeah I think so

Ginger

cool

(@hyper-neutrino the event says "Best Of 2022" but should say "Best Of CGCC 2022")

hyper-neutrino

7:50 PM

oh

Ginger

eh, we're only human [citation needed]

mousetail

8:08 PM

Isn't a neutrino a subatomic particle? I don't think many subatomic particles are human

mousetail

8:21 PM

Also any tips how to search for all python answers that don't explicitly list a version number, or only list python 3 without the minor version?

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Haskell: Elitist academics

COBOL: Old boys' club

@mousetail Would their going extinct actually mess up the ecosystem though?

@Simd i686, Intel Core 2 Duo

mousetail

@user Unfortunately data scientists are a very fragile species, with a diet that consists almost entirely of pandas. If pandas where to disappear the whole ecosystem could collapse, and once again developers would be asked to copy-paste SQL queries.

4

user

@Simd I've seen that article (or at least ones like it) in the past but I've just been a little afraid of trying out the more obscure distros. Thanks for reminding me those exist, though, I should try out at least a few of them at some point if I'm going to become an elitist Linux bro :P

Newer releases of Linux Mint and Ubuntu flavors no longer support 32 bit :(

@Ginger Thanks! It looks like their goal is specifically supporting old computers, which is nice (mine isn't that old, it's from around 2011, but it doesn't have the best specs ever)

Ginger

8:54 PM

@user Happy to help!

@user jooooooooin uuuuuuuuus, uuuuuuuuseeeeeerrrr

user

I might grow a beard and try Linux from scratch :P

Ginger

Bad idea. Down that road lies madness

You spend all your time compiling kernels and never do anything

@user If you do elect to install RPi OS, you should 100% also install a new desktop like KDE Plasma or smth

it's actually really easy to do, I can help you if you want

user

That'd be great, thanks

I'm assuming they have decent docs given it's got a good community so hopefully I'll be able to do it myself without much trouble

Ginger

@user The docs are OK, but specifically for installing a new desktop there actually is [One Weird Trick!!! Click here to find out!] that makes it way easier

user

Do you happen to have a link to the one weird trick?

Ginger

9:04 PM

er

@user no, I forgor 💀 where I found it

but it's simple: the tasksel command

it's basically an installer that lets you easily set up a bunch of different desktops, and it comes prepackaged with RPiOS!

user

Thanks, found some articles after googling tasksel

Ginger

I installed Cinnamon to replace LXDE a week or so ago and I have no clue why I didn't do it earlier

it is SO MUCH BETTER

see these messages for before and after screenshots

user

Are those two virtual desktops or something?

Ginger

I have two monitors :p

user

Ah ok

Simd

9:08 PM

@user but your cpu is 64 bit isn't it?

user

No it's 32 bit (i686) :(

Simd

@user do you have a URL for it? I can't seem to find the 32 bit version

user

This?

Simd

@user also Debian isn't obscure google.com/amp/s/www.debugpoint.com/32-bit-linux-distributions/…

user

Or do you mean a URL for the CPU I have?

Simd

9:12 PM

@user yes

user

@Simd Debian is slow to get updates though

Simd

For the cpu

@user fussy :)

user

I like my OSes like I like my knives: bleeding edge

@Simd No apt packages being outdated is an actual problem occasionally

Simd

How about mx Linux?

user

Another Debian stable base :|

You know what, screw it, I'll just use Debian itself

Can't get away from all these Debian derivatives

Simd

9:15 PM

:)

But I still want to know about this cpu

user

Trying to find it

All the sticker says is Intel Core 2 Duo

Possibly one of these?

Simd

Have you got any os running in it?

When you have an os you can get more info

user

Yeah, Gentoo, booting it up right now

Simd

I hate Gentoo...:)

user

lol

Okay, it says the processor is "Intel Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHZ", it's got 2.9 GiB of RAM, and the graphics processor is "Mesa Mobile Intel GM45 Express Chipset"

This thing, I guess

Simd

9:26 PM

It's 64 bit

user

Wait what

lscpu says it's i686, which is 32 bit, right?

It says it supports 32 bit and 64 bit op modes but that doesn't mean it can actually run 64 bit applications, does it?

My brain is breaking right now

lyxal

9:44 PM

@NewPosts laughs in 200 rep never received from the previous best of

user

@lyxal On which answer?

lyxal

@user print x without x

user

Which answer is the bounty supposed to be on?

lyxal

As is emanresu and aaroneous for that matter

@user any one of the many cracks we posted

Well, any three

user

Asking because I can award one of those. Which of the answers are you most proud of?

lyxal

9:57 PM

Because it was a 3 person nomination

2

A: Print X without X (cop's thread)

Vyxal, score 250, cracked properly by Aaroneous !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijmnopqrtuvwxyz{|}~¡¢£¤¥¦§¨«¬¯°±²µ¶¹»¼½¾×Þßæð÷øĊċėĠġİĿŀŻżƈƒƛǍǎǏǐǑǒǓǔȦȧȮȯɖɽɾʀʁΠβελτḂḃḊḋḞḟḢḣḭṀṁṄṅṖṗṘṙṠṡṪṫẆẇẊẋẎẏ‛„‟†‡•…‹›⁋⁰⁺⁼⁽₀₁₂₄₅₆₇₈₌₍€₴℅⅛←↑→↓↔↲↳↵⇧⇩∆∇∑√∞∧∨∩∪∴∵∷≈≠≤≥≬⊍⋎⋏⌈⌊⌐□⟇⟑⟨⟩꘍...

My final cop post

user

nvm I don't think I can award bounties anymore lol

No bounty button

Best Of CGCC 2022

Transcript for