The Nineteenth Byte

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1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: (untitled)

thejonymyster

1:26 AM

@thejonymyster so im trying to submit this to the oeis

but im not suer what to put for the title

neil's description is nice but 1. i definitely should ask first :P 2. the description doesnt actually imply the order, does it?

@Neil does this imply the order of the list or will i have to think harder about what to submit to oeis

and also if i do use that do i have your permission lol

thejonymyster

1:40 AM

oh wait i would just include the like

"from smallest to largest" thing

Seggan

2:21 AM

@thejonymyster "Suffixes of the prefixes of the natural numbers"

thejonymyster

2:32 AM

@Seggan that doesnt imply the orderings of each list though

ive got "All suffixes (ordered longest to shortest) of all prefixes (ordered shortest to longest) of the positive integers.", is any of that redundant?

Steffan

Taht sounds fine

thejonymyster

i know its like, a literal description of what it is but i still feel like i should credit neil LOL but its not like

a blog where i can put "shoutouts to neil"

its all formatl

emanresu A

@thejonymyster Vyxal, 5 bytes because of how sublists is implemented

thejonymyster

omg yay

welcome to 2023

Unrelated String

3:26 AM

for a second i thought you meant the language in floop, and then ten seconds later i realized that's what the name is a pun on
i knew it was some kind of pun but TOTALLY forgot what

thejonymyster

LOL nice

yea every time i say it now i think about the language lol

emanresu A

3:40 AM

in floop is ... ...

thejonymyster

a programming language (by radvylf?)

emanresu A

3:56 AM

I know, I helped make it (slightly)

graffe

5:43 AM

@Zionmyceliaadamancy that’s a no then ,)

Does anyone have any questions about my open bounty? codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/251029/…

emanresu A

7:39 AM

20

Q: Make the PPCG Favicon

Come November 1, Programming Puzzles and Code Golf will graduate, so in the next 11 months, we'll want to save some memories from when we were ungraduated. Write a program that produces the PPCG favicon, seen below. The image must be at least 64x64 pixels. The blue must be the color #62B0DF....

> the image need not be pixellated like it is here

This challenge has so many questionably valid answers because of that rule, and I'm considering VTCing

emanresu A

8:50 AM

^ thoughts?

pxeger

10:26 AM

I've voted to close

emanresu A

CMQ: Say I have a hypothetical language which, rather than directly outputting to stdout, internally stores a buffer of output and prints that when the program terminates. (forgoing making it output as a stream) can I use this language on challenges requiring infinite output?

pxeger

If it is truly the case that no output will ever be printed in practice, then I'd say no, it can't

emanresu A

11:15 AM

What if the lang's on TIO and gets terminated after 60 seconds, printing something?

lyxal

11:31 AM

@emanresuA this hypothetical language wouldn't happen to start with a V and end with an l would it?

Because what you're describing sounds awfully close to how the Vyxal online interpreter works

emanresu A

@lyxal No actually, more several answers on other things

@lyxal Yes, but the offline interpreter will provide infinite output given infinite time which is what matters

Radvylf Programs

12:55 PM

@emanresuA If you rely on your program doing a finite amount of stuff in a challenge involving an infinite amount of output in order for that stuff to work correctly, I don't think that's valid

I know there's a meta decision on this

Seggan

2:23 PM

@emanresuA isnt this practically all langs?

iirc c doesnt print until either stuff is read from a stream or the program terminates

Radvylf Programs

Stream?

Also I very much doubt that's true

@Seggan I've never heard of a practical language that doesn't print until the program terminates

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms I guess they mean pipe?

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms That would just make interacting with the user in the terminal, or printing output part of the way through a task, impossible.

user

2:43 PM

@Seggan You may have to flush but it definitely prints before that

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, otherwise yes, package managers, anything else that prints status updates as they go, would just not work well

user

No obviously package managers execute a new C program for every line they print :P

Radvylf Programs

And since you can pretty much write anything you can write in any other language in C given that it's so low level, that would mean it's impossible for any language to do that, which wouldn't really make sense (plus that sort of hidden buffering doesn't seem very C-y to me)

graffe

3:16 PM

CMC print the Cyrillic alphabet in C

Steffan

3:32 PM

Try it online! :)

graffe

@Steffan I am surprised that worked!

Now do it without any cyrrilic in the source

Steffan

Try it online!

Actually one byte shorter

actually -1 byet: Try it online!

pxeger

47: Try it online!

Steffan

ah

pxeger

combined for 46: Try it online!

Steffan

3:43 PM

My first one that just printed it out was actually a lot longer, because for some reason, TIO counts C in SBCS

graffe

@pxeger if you wanted to get rid of all warnings what do you need to do?

pxeger

use gcc -w ;)

graffe

I am amazed these solutions work. When do you have to use wchar?

@pxeger :)

pxeger

@graffe This is manipulating raw UTF-8 bytes I think

graffe

@pxeger ah

Ok new cmc

Steffan

3:45 PM

71 bytes with no warnings and no flags.

graffe

CMC print ten different Chinese characters in C

@Steffan I leaned something new!

Steffan

main(){puts("山人口刀木日月女子目");}

graffe

@Steffan without using Chinese characters in the source :)

Steffan

Try it online!

graffe

You are too good!

Steffan

3:56 PM

Lol I don't even know C

graffe

@Steffan then what can I say? :)

Steffan

Vyxal, 10 bytes

And Vyxal s, 9 bytes

graffe

Python is cheating :)

You need to do something hard like segfault :)

Have we had a challenge about moving a sprite around the screen with up/down/left/right keys?

@Steffan can you make vyxal segfault?

Can you translate this into vyxal?

eval((lambda:0).__code__.replace(co_consts=()))

mousetail

4:18 PM

You can segfault python

graffe

@mousetail I just pasted an example

graffe

4:32 PM

Although I haven't actually tried it

Can you segfault TIO? :)

pxeger

hopefully not TIO itself

DLosc

@thejonymyster funstack.hs, 41 bytes (6 commands): Flatten Flatten Suffixes map Prefixes #N+

@lyxal funstack.hs, 37 bytes (6 commands plus 2 number literals): Cons Pair self hook map Range 100 151

Steffan

@graffe Only by evaling code as Python :)

DLosc

@Steffan -1 бет?

Also I think you've got an off-by-one error there: the output wraps around to lowercase а at the end.

graffe

4:53 PM

@Steffan :)

@pxeger I was wondering

mousetail

5:05 PM

What should be the result of subtracting 2 tuples of different lengths?

DLosc

What is the result of subtracting 2 tuples of the same length?

Ginger

nvm it's just a release candidate

but we can expect a release soon I think

mousetail

5:20 PM

@DLosc You could do pairwise potentially

In my case the tuples might be the same length

but not nececairly

thejonymyster

@emanresuA tbh i sort of like seeinmg the graphic output challenges where its like "make it look like this but it doesnt actaully have to be exact" but theyre better as popcons where you can just vote to decide whether it really looks like the thing or not, like that "make a forest" challenge

@DLosc good name btw, what is #N+? a trigraph or

DLosc

@mousetail Here is how I did it in Pip. Basically, the unpaired values are included in the result unchanged. I'm not 100% sure that's the best approach for subtraction; perhaps the last result should be [6;15;24;-7] instead.

mousetail

@DLosc Thanks, I'll check it out

DLosc

@thejonymyster Currently, since it's a proof-of-concept rather than a full-fledged language, there's a very rudimentary parser. Tokens are any run of non-spaces. Tokens that start with a letter are functions or modifiers; tokens that start with ' or " are character or string literals; there's a few miscellanous tokens that start with symbols; and anything else is an integer literal.

I originally thought of N for natural numbers and N+ for positive integers, but that would start with a letter, so I stuck a symbol in front of it.

If this ends up turning into a golfing language, all of those tokens except string/char/int literals would be one byte each.

thejonymyster

righto

thanks thats exactly the sort of thing i was asking :)

DLosc

5:36 PM

@thejonymyster Husk, 5 bytes: ΣṁṫḣN

(which definitely should be pronounced "sumthin'")

thejonymyster

absolutely lol

subjective cmc idea: solve (some problem) in a golfing lang but the code has to be pronounceable :P

@thejonymyster followup CMC: given N, output the Nth iteration of prefix/suffixing the positive integers ( about to explain)

(index however oyu like)
0 steps: just the postitive integers
1 steps: all prefixes of the positive integers
2 steps: all suffixes of all prefixes of the positive integers
3 steps: all prefixes of all suffixes of all prefixes of the positive integers...

illustration:

DLosc

@thejonymyster Related

user

Ooh, this could possibly make for a good challenge

thejonymyster

@DLosc nice

@user oh yay :D

side note: draft on oeis for 2 steps

also, for n>0, the number of leading 1s in n steps is n :P

thats not true why did i say that

wait is it true? i dont know i will stop conjecturing wildly in the chat now :)

DLosc

5:58 PM

@pxeger Brachylog, 19 bytes: {∧ℕ×₁₀}ᵐL+≜&;Lz+ᵐ<₁

which translates to:
- For each number in the list, pick a nonnegative integer and multiply it by 10. Call the resulting list L.
- Consider possible assignments of elements to L in increasing order of L's sum.
- Add each element of L to the corresponding element of the input list.
- Assert that the result is strictly increasing.

Fun fact: to run an infinite loop over the positive integers in QBasic, you can just write FOR i = 1 TO 1/0, since 1/0 gives 1.INF rather than an error.

(In theory, anyway. In practice, numbers are floats rather than unbounded ints, so you'll run out of floating-point precision at some point and start repeating the same number over and over.)

Aw, dang, it's not true for actual QBasic, just QB64. :P

@thejonymyster QB64, 52 bytes:

FOR i=1TO 1/0
FOR j=1TO i
FOR k=j TO i
?k
NEXT k,j,i

Steffan

@thejonymyster btw, the JS code you put there is quite bad practice lol. normally, you initialize variables, not just set them (which writes them globally). people only do that in golfing :P

thejonymyster

6:15 PM

well its what ive got :P

DLosc

Ooh--50 bytes, and works in real QBasic too:

1i=i+1
FOR j=1TO i
FOR k=j TO i
?k
NEXT k,j
GOTO 1

(adding the line IF INPUT$(1) = CHR$(27) THEN END after ?k will be helpful if you're actually going to run it)

Radvylf Programs

Fun fact about JS: id (where id is any element's ID) is a variable preset to that element

DLosc

(because it will wait for a keypress after printing each number, and if you press Esc it will terminate the program)

graffe

6:38 PM

CMC read in a single Chinese character from a file and print it out in C

@Steffan I have extended the challenge :)

thejonymyster

@graffe will the entire file be chinese characters or do you just have to find the first one

Radvylf Programs

@graffe This just seems like trying to get someone else to show you how to do Unicode handling in C :p

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms :)

@thejonymyster you need to find the first one. The rest are ascii

@RadvylfPrograms you are quite close. I had to write some C that read in and wrote out unicode characters a few years ago and it was so painful I want to share the pain :)

That and I am sure I did it wrong

Radvylf Programs

@graffe If it's guaranteed to be ASCII after a single Unicode character, then you can just read until you find a char higher than 0x7f

Assuming UTF-8

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms that sounds good

That's true even if there are lots of unicode characters isn't it?

Radvylf Programs

6:53 PM

No, because there could be multiple in a row, in which case there'd be no lower-than-0x7f characters breaking it up

You'd need to determine the length of the UTF-8 character and do things semi-properly

graffe

0h I see. That's the pain I am talking about :)

Radvylf Programs

If you need UTF-8 handling though, I'd really encourage using a library, and there absolutely has to be a good one out there given that it's like, 2022

graffe

Maybe it could be a challenge?

Or too C specific?

Radvylf Programs

@graffe I guarantee the interesting part already is

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms cough :)

It's C! You have to do everything from scratch

Radvylf Programs

6:55 PM

Dunno which C you're using :p

I'm typically very hesitant to use libraries, but for UTF-8/Unicode handling there's no reason not to

Especially since there are weird quirks, like duplicate characters of different lengths, that could cause obscure security issues

Steffan

@graffe chinese characters are composed of 3 bytes, so that will be tricky

can i use a different language :)

graffe

If you can find a library that makes it easy I am happy for that

@Steffan no! Got to feel the pain :)

Radvylf Programs

@Steffan I don't think all CJK characters are three bytes, right?

Yeah, there's some ones outside the BMP which would require four

graffe

BMP?

Radvylf Programs

Basic Multilingual Plane

First like, 65536 (I think?) characters

graffe

6:59 PM

"there are also some very rarely-used characters in the "CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B" and "CJK Compatibility Ideographs Supplement" blocks, which take 4 bytes in UTF-8.

Also be aware that Chinese text often contains ASCII characters like the digits 0-9."

I didn't mean digits :)

@RadvylfPrograms that sounds quite star trek

Steffan

7:16 PM

Try it online!

it will break on some really weird non-Chinese chars though.

actually Try it online!

actually Try it online! lol

with no warnings

Steffan

7:38 PM

actually also you can remove the curly brackets around the if statement

reading from a file

oh also o;p;main(){ can be o;main(p){

mousetail

7:51 PM

I tried building a language today

This is hello worls:

N,80,N:N,N,"hello world";
(p,q),N,N:N,p,q;

This displays the alphabet in reverse order:

65,N,N:N,N,N;
N,L,N:N,N,L;
A,N,N:N,A,A-1;

Guess the programing style

graffe

8:06 PM

@Steffan that's great!

@Steffan some fun warnings too :)

I might need to increase my bounty soon

Steffan

8:25 PM

@thejonymyster you could add some mathematica code, people on OEIS like mathematica lol: Print @ Flatten @ (Reverse@FoldList[Join[#2,#]&, {#}&/@Reverse@#]& /@ FoldList[Join, Table[{n},{n,1,10}]])

or haskell: import Data.List; main = print $ take 50 $ concat $ concatMap tails $ inits [1..]

thejonymyster

8:43 PM

@Steffan do i have your permission to use this :P

Steffan

yes lol

thejonymyster

ty LOL

mousetail

9:02 PM

Does anyone actually have unsung hero on CGSE?

thejonymyster

whatsit?

emanresu A

9:42 PM

@mousetail Nope

thejonymyster

what is unsung hero?

Zion mycelia adamancy

@mousetail Pretty sure no one has Tenacious

Badges no one has on CGCC: Illuminator (G), Generalist (S), Tenacious (S), Unsung Hero (G)

emanresu A

10:00 PM

Generalist a bunch of people will get in a few years

Tenacious / Unsung Hero? likely never

Illuminator someone will eventually get

Zion mycelia adamancy

Generalist is currently impossible to get, as it requires each of the top 40 tags to have 100 questions in. Tenacious/Unsung Hero will never happen, as they require multiple zero score accepted answers, and, by nature of the site, that never happens. Illuminator, is my badge goal :P

76 zero score accepted answers

@emanresuA Only 7 users have Refiner, and of those, only 3 are still active (me, Jonathan, xnor)

thejonymyster

10:34 PM

where is unsung hero? i cant see it in the badgielist

Radvylf Programs

IIRC they got rid of it

thejonymyster

well there you go

no one will ever get it then :P

Zion mycelia adamancy

10:52 PM

@RadvylfPrograms Nope, they retired Tumbleweed

@thejonymyster codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/badges/35/unsung-hero

thejonymyster

woahh

Radvylf Programs

@Zionmyceliaadamancy Oh yeah

Unrelated String

@Zionmyceliaadamancy who even thought of that

emanresu A

Some dev who was tired of getting zero-score accepted answers?

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms No, I'm pretty sure unsung hero was retired too

Zion mycelia adamancy

11:05 PM

185

Q: Badge suggestion: Unsung Hero (5 accepted answers with no votes)

This badge, which I'd nominate as a silver, would be awarded for every 5 accepted answers a user has with no votes. There should probably be a 24-hour window after acceptance before this badge is awarded. Why do this, you ask? Well, one of the much-belabored issues of the SO model is that rep ...

feature-request status-completed badges badge-request

@RadvylfPrograms Nope, see the Answer Badges section: codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/badges

Radvylf Programs

Hm. I was pretty sure they removed multiple at once.

Or maybe it was, they added multiple new ones

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms It's not in the retired section

Zion mycelia adamancy

They've only ever removed 3 badges

They dislike removing badges in general

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