The Nineteenth Byte - 2022-04-15 (page 1 of 2)

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12:06 AM

the interviewer is CALLING me RIGHT NOW ahhhhhhhhhh

a little bit stressed ngl

@AidenChow well looks like it was just bad scheduling and coincidences after all :p

@allxy depends on how interactive. for something simple like an image rollover, script would be stupid. for something like a tab control, yes, you can do it in CSS, but only really as a self-learning exercise.

@DLosc can't you write the Y combinator?

oh, PyGamer0 already got there

Radvylf Programs

12:25 AM

Okay...what: space.stackexchange.com/questions/58853/…

It would be easier to t=ask what they didn't get wrong

Unrelated String

lmao

Radvylf Programs

I have no clue why people would be worried about a bunch of untrained idiots building an object capable of launching itself long distances without any control, full of poison, acid, and explosives

hows it goin guys

as soon as i joined, 3 people simultaneously left

interesting

12:47 AM

I GOT FANATIC!!

nice

Unrelated String

🥳🥳🥳

@AidenChow nice

right after me :)

@pxeger how does that use closures? anyway, I found mvanier.livejournal.com/2897.html which explains how to do it in Scheme which is a similar language

so close to getting first silver badge on chess

12:56 AM

oh I see the closure now

@NewPosts VTDs please?

or maybe I don't

It doesn't, but it does use partial application which is a whole different and annoying thing

does this work?

  (define Y
    (lambda (f)
      ((lambda (f x) (f (lambda (y) ((x f x) y))))
       (lambda (f x) (f (lambda (y) ((x f x) y)))))))

@Neil is this tinylisp?

1:05 AM

not yet

@Neil No because you can't access x from lambda (y)

or f, in fact

yeah, so anonymous recursive functions appear to need closures

For the same reason, this (from the blog post) doesn't work:

  (define almost-factorial
    (lambda (f)
      (lambda (n)
        (if (= n 0)
            1
            (* n (f (- n 1)))))))

Because f can't be accessed from inside lambda (n)

@Neil Buttt... there's a way around this

In tinylisp functions are simply lists with a special structure

if you say so, but I'm going to get a headache if I don't get sleep

Ok, 'night

If you edit in the correct values, you can actually do that.

Issue is, if you edit f into f you get an infinite function.

1:08 AM

why do i keep thinking allxy is a mod

Diamond?

But if you edit f's arguments into f...

@allxy lol ye thats part of the reason

Hm... how lazy is tinylisp?

anyone think ill pass my code-golf rep with my chess rep b4 i get fanatic on chess?

Hm.. so the Y combinator is f => (x => x(x))(x => f(x(x)))

1:24 AM

guys whats ur best for hard mode google minsweeper

@RadvylfPrograms is there a list of these posts? I would love to look at them because life is boring

I wish i could see all their deleted posts from their profile page

Radvylf Programs

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/246235/79857, codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/246236/revisions, codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/246233/…

Smh stack exchange didn’t consider the fact that people might want to looj at trolls’ deleted posts for entertainment

@RadvylfPrograms thank you 🙏

You abd the troll just made my day brighter

@DialFrost 112

wbu?

> This technicality could have roots to the big bang. I might have disproven Einstien, Tesla, Elon Musk for all I know.

1:32 AM

@AidenChow sheeeeee

171

im slow

:(

Mmm yes elin musk tge famed scientist

how bout ur medium and small?

nah its not that slow, that was my best a year ago

@DialFrost medium: 37

Radvylf Programs

Any time I hear the words "Elon Musk" it ruins 1/24th of my day

easy: 6 i think, i havent played that in so long

1:33 AM

@AidenChow 47 :9

Radvylf Programs

Unless it's in a critical context in which case it makes 1/24th of my day better

:(

@AidenChow YES

i got 5

lol nice!

i got super lucky

@RadvylfPrograms i think we can consider this sarcasm, making it basically a critical context

1:34 AM

i still dont know how i got it

i think easy mode comes down to luck, if u get a really good start

@AidenChow ye

usually i get around 10 seconds for easy mode

I shall cancel it now tho

@AidenChow same

1:35 AM

aw who downvoted my piet challenge btw :(

ELOOOOOON MUUUUUUUUUSK!!!!! HES SO AWESOME 😎 AND SMART I LOVE HIM

theres like two convos going on rn lmao

There we go, just ruined at least an hour of redwolf’s day

Radvylf Programs

ELOON MUSK IS GONNA LIKE...REPLACE TRAINS WITH DUM<BER TRAINS THAT HE AN HIS RICH FRIENDS CAN ENJOY

@AidenChow another one between me and my inagibary friebd ;)

1:36 AM

"inagibary", :P

Radvylf Programs

@AidenChow How'd it go?

ELON MUSK WILL DELIVER US TO MARS!! HE IS THE MESSIAH!! WE SHALL LIVE IN PEACE AND EAT POTATOES GROWN IN ELON MUSKS HOLY SHIT

8

@user is high

@RadvylfPrograms he only asked me one q lol, i prepared for like 5

Radvylf Programs

Oh lol. Do you think you did well?

1:38 AM

@DialFrost HIGHER TO GOD AKA ELON MUSK YOU MEAN

@AidenChow do you think is have you job?

@user ok he def high

i think it went well, except i couldnt give a definitive answer for my availability for summer cuz im still waiting on whether or not i get accepted into summer programs

wait aidenchow how old ru

@DialFrost 14

1:39 AM

@AidenChow turning 14 this yr?

or 15

Damn you kids are getting jobs already

@user lol

@DialFrost 14 rn

Radvylf Programs

@AidenChow Well, it doesn't seem like scheduling conflicts are something they're particularly worried about based on what you've said about the interview so far :p

@user don't make me feel older than I already feel

1:39 AM

Meanwhile i have only one place get back to me and not respond again after the interview

@AidenChow sameeee

:)

It was a frickin mcdonalds too

[underage user intensifies]

@forest hai forest

@forest :|

1:40 AM

@AidenChow hehe

Idk how tf i couldn’t get a job after applying to 15 fast good restaurants

Hai @DialFrost

@forest I’m not underage

Radvylf Programs

Uh oh it's a mod from another site everybody act normal

Wait what do you mea- oh cuz your name. Hue.

1:41 AM

what constitutes as underage here anyways? below 16?

@AidenChow Below 16 in the EU. Below 13 in the US. Something like that.

underage code-golfing is known to deteriorate the health of children

9

@RadvylfPrograms hehe

@lyxal sus

i dont code-golf anymore

lost my interest alr

@lyxal :o nah that cant be true, proof??

:(

1:42 AM

/s

There needs to be a surgeon general's warning for code golfing.

It’s bad for adults too but like alcohol they can be trusted to do it in moderation /s

Radvylf Programs

When you golf code, you golf the calcium in your bones and they turn into Jelly

@forest code golfing is fun! why would there ever be a need for a warning? :)

@forest code golfing is also pretty nsfw

Radvylf Programs

1:42 AM

I've been on code golf for six years and now I'm all squishy

Don't golf while driving, kids!

@user And vim golfing is nsfl.

Apl golfing involves pornography

@allxy i dont drive or golf

@user orh

@user wait wut, really??

1:43 AM

@allxy driving under the byte limit is a crime

lol

my rep levelled off :(

@DialFrost oh, that sucks.

@forest there’s a game of life or something in vim around here

Radvylf Programs

@AidenChow That's what APLers call unreadable code (aplwiki.com/index.php?title=Pornography&redirect=no)

1:43 AM

and driving under the influence of code-golf makes you drive dangerously because you try and golf your path home

@lyxal over the limit around here

@RadvylfPrograms shush, you didn’t need to explain it

@RadvylfPrograms well done, now you've summoned Adam.

kids these days performing user summoning rituals.

not caring about their consequences smh

@lyxal what now

@RadvylfPrograms ok what, thats some... interesting... terminology i suppose

You can summon me with a ritual?

1:45 AM

Oh there's worse. :p

Radvylf Programs

@AidenChow We've discussed it before lol

@user yes

@user

done

ritual complete :P

AAAAAAAAA

5

@RadvylfPrograms We did exactly the opposite of this lol

@RadvylfPrograms :o a bookmark I made! I don't see those these days

1:46 AM

been a while since i've seen you around @forest

how've you been?

@user Gonna star this for out-of-context value

nice name color btw :D

@hyper-neutrino oh wait rly?

You used to make a lot of bookmarks lyxal

i mean forest has 61 accounts

aint hard to find forest

1:46 AM

@hyper-neutrino Been good. But mostly hanging out on The DMZ and The Side Channel.

And now TL :D

well no but i used to talk to forest on occasion but it's been a while since i haven't been to the maid cafe in a long time

@DialFrost hard to find a single account in that forest though

@forest that's good to hear! i haven't rejoined favorite channels in a while so i've mostly just been here and in a couple of CGCC side rooms, lol

@hyper-neutrino da hell is the maid cafe

@user nah

1:47 AM

An animu and mango room, with lots of yuri.

> been a while since I haven't been

i easily found forest on crypto

Oh no, are you a weeb forest? :p

Radvylf Programs

@forest Oh crypto had a mod election? Congrats!

@user there are many weebs among us

1:47 AM

@user What about my profile picture makes you think I'm not a weeb? :P

Oh nice, congrats

forest u play chess?

@forest my eyes suck, didn’t see it lol

I play chess sometimes, but not a lot.

@forest 1v1?

1:48 AM

@user you have vacuums for eyes?

Not good enough to play online. I just play against a computer.

@forest where is Laniakea ???

apparently thats where u live??

@AidenChow It's pretty big. Hard to miss it.

@forest aw common

im quite bad as well

where do u guys play online chess?

1:50 AM

I've never played online. Most I've ever done is played through a chat.

@AidenChow lichess

@RadvylfPrograms lol da hell im reading

Laniakea Supercluster

The Laniakea Supercluster (, Hawaiian for open skies or immense heaven) is the galaxy supercluster that is home to the Milky Way and approximately 100,000 other nearby galaxies. It was defined in September 2014, when a group of astronomers including R. Brent Tully of the University of Hawaiʻi, Hélène Courtois of the University of Lyon, Yehuda Hoffman of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and Daniel Pomarède of CEA Université Paris-Saclay published a new way of defining superclusters according to the relative velocities of galaxies. The new definition of the local supercluster subsumes the prior...

@forest this could be ur first time mate

im 800 rated

@DialFrost cool, me too!

1:51 AM

on lichess

800 rated blitz?

nah jkjk

@AidenChow how bout u

1300 blitz

1000 bullet lol

I used to chess a long time ago, but that's when I was young and it was cool to chess at school. Now I'm just bad at chess in general.

@lyxal ouch

@AidenChow nice

1:52 AM

I play 7d cheas

Radvylf Programs

I used to play when I was like 8 against my friends :p

@DialFrost yeah, I've fallen a long way from playing second board in school tournaments.

Because i suck at 2d and no one else plays 7d

wow most ppl here plays chess

nice

@lyxal iirc I once got best on board 2 in my local area.

but that was 10 years ago

1:54 AM

@AidenChow Protip: Any user information has about 80% chance to be a joke (or serious but actually giving out zero information)

@lyxal sheeeeeeeeeee

Radvylf Programs

I'd probably do a lot better if I didn't just make semi-random moves without thinking first lol

nah

It's very serious. I would be in deep trouble if I did not live in Laniakea.

chess.com sucks imo no offence

1:58 AM

@DialFrost but where I've lost chess clout/skills, I've gained esolang design clout/skill. So it all balances out really

lichess is tha best

btw @AidenChow

ur bullet shld be higher than blitz

Radvylf Programs

@DialFrost Oh, that's not what I meant

@RadvylfPrograms ye ye ik

js offering my view

Radvylf Programs

Well all I do is play a game against the computer every few weeks lol

So I don't really need much in the way of a quality chess playing experience™

chess is fun

i play it every day

:)

@AidenChow how many games on lichess have u played

bruh he left

@RadvylfPrograms aww

radvylf u shld enjoy it

2:05 AM

Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol

The Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP) is a facetious communication protocol for controlling, monitoring, and diagnosing coffee pots. It is specified in RFC 2324, published on 1 April 1998 as an April Fools' Day RFC, as part of an April Fools prank. An extension, HTCPCP-TEA, was published as RFC 7168 on 1 April 2014 to support brewing teas, which is also an April Fools' Day RFC. == Protocol == RFC 2324 was written by Larry Masinter, who describes it as a satire, saying "This has a serious purpose – it identifies many of the ways in which HTTP has been extended inappropriately." The...

sup @DLosc

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, I'm sure if I were to get into it I'd like it, I just don't need another hobby :p

@RadvylfPrograms :(

@DLosc We might have figured out how to break tinylisp

Radvylf Programs

@allxy Little did they know, we have smart coffee pots now :p

2:06 AM

why do i have a feeling that hyper-neutrino plays chess and is very good at it

@RadvylfPrograms They better implement HTCPCP

Radvylf Programs

Unfortunately I don't think they do :(

@allxy Lovely, do tell ^_^

We might have figured out how to do nameless recursive functions using a closureless analog of the Y combinator that edits the function source.

Whoa

2:08 AM

Haven't got it to work yet though

7 hours ago, by allxy

15 hours ago, by allxy

I'm just going to make a fmap that calls the function with its extra (all but first two) arguments and each element.

This is probably a necessary step and it's being kinda annoying to implement

And I have math homework to do

@DialFrost i know how to play chess

that is like

the extent of my chess ability

@hyper-neutrino aww

wow nearly everony here plays chess noice

@allxy Skimming through your earlier conversation, I didn't entirely follow because I'm not super familiar with combinators, but some of the scoping issues you're talking about probably can be addressed by putting the literal function into an expression and eval'ing it. Possibly substitute or something like it could be useful.

I was trying to copy that. Is it deep recursive?

Looks that way. _substitute calls substitute on each element of the list.

2:22 AM

But does it do so on nested/ragged lists?

Okay, looks like it does :)

anyone wanna play chess?

Not right now, sorry

aww

Oh great... I have to type a polite email

whomst'd've and why?

2:30 AM

@allxy BTW, if you succeed, I wouldn't consider that breaking the language--that's doing something unexpectedly awesome despite its limitations. :D

Yeah :)

Closure simulation would be quite cool too

And I find it really nice that everything within the language can be recreated within the language

Radvylf Programs

I was gonna do something productive but then I listened to music and forgot what that was

anyone can teach me chess?

lol

hai ancientswordrage!

Radvylf Programs

2:52 AM

I'm kinda wanting to go to a concert for a band I like, but I've never done anything like that before and there's absolutely no way 1. I'm going to let my parents know what music I like and 2. that they'd let me go in the first place :/

I find it hilarious that your first worry is your first worry

4

Radvylf Programs

I guarantee you if I were to go up to them and say "I'm kinda thinking about going to a concert this august" they'd look at me weird, laugh, and ask a bunch of awkward questions

its fine radvylf

ur radvylf

theyll let u in

Radvylf Programs

Hmm, one slight issue is that it's a Sunday, the one before the second week of school for me next year

So I'd have to miss a day of school, unless I got back at like six in the morning, changed clothes, and went straight to school

Your parents are definitely not gonna let you get away with that

Radvylf Programs

2:59 AM

Another problem would be transport, although I've just realized it lines up pretty well with when I'll be getting my driver's license

unless you can think of something that would justify not being at school that you can actually do on the monday

Radvylf Programs

The doors open at 19:30, so if we assume I was leaving San Antonio 6 hours after that, which seems reasonable when you count the time until it starts, the time until it finished, and getting back to my car and stuff, I'd get home at about 2 in the morning

Honestly, for a once-in-a-lifetime thing, I'm fine with three hours of sleep

I just checked my permit, I can get my license August 8th or later. The concert would be on the 21st, so I could definitely have my license by then

Maybe...maybe I could convince them to let me do it as a combined early birthday present and congrats-for-getting-your-drivers-license thing

Mayybeeee

Good luck'

Radvylf Programs

I was mostly just thinking about this for the fun of thinking about it but honestly...

I might actually try

It's gonna be hard to convince them, and I'm still pretty sure they'll just completely ignore me given that I've never dared to show any interest in the band up until now, but man it would be so amazing to be able to go

I just watched a video of a song from one of their concerts and it definitelty seems like the sorta thing I want to do, at least once. And no telling how long the band will stay together, given that they've broken up before.

is golfscript dead.... nobody seems to use it much now

3:07 AM

Yes

Radvylf Programs

It's not really good at golfing, and golfing was its reason for existing

Golfscript's been dead for the past decade

^^

Radvylf Programs

Plus, most of its primary userbase has left the site

golfscript was good for its time but it's just been taken over by new languages lol

Golfscript's what we refer to as a "first-generation golfing language"

Radvylf Programs

3:09 AM

I thought it was 2nd gen

Nah, 2nd gen is Cjam and pyth

Radvylf Programs

Wasn't 1st gen the "unintentional" golfing languages like APL/J/K?

Oh wait, I think Golfscript's usually lumped in with those

Yes, but golfscript also fits in that catigory

My idea of first gen is languages with built-ins that are longer than 2 bytes

2nd gen is languages that stayed true to being ASCII only while having a much more powerful builtin set, at the cost of readability. However, they still lacked important constructs such as implicit I/O

Radvylf Programs

3:11 AM

I'm definitely going to have to discuss the idea with my mom first, since she's less likely to immediately shoot it down.

3rd gen is Jelly, 05AB1E, and most recently Vyxal, which takes a step back towards readability.

Radvylf Programs

I'd say it more...gives the option of readability

I guess, yeah

Radvylf Programs

Never before looked at Vyxal and been like "dang this is some seriously readable shit"

It's the only golflang on CR

Radvylf Programs

3:13 AM

Well, that's basically a publicity stunt :p

Vyxal's definitely different from the rest in that it advertises and tries to appeal to people beyond just CGCC's core users, which makes sense given how big of a project it's become

And? It crosses a pretty major bridge, and mighhhtttt help us get Jelly onto CR which would be hilariouus

@RadvylfPrograms There are 25 people in the github org.

As for fourth gen, who knows? I think current golfing languages are pretty close to optimal, although I'd really like to know what pxeger and radvylf were talking about before

You two should probably talk to Bubbler.

Radvylf Programs

I think half-byte languages, concepts like pxeger's and mine, etc. should be the "4th gen": ones focused less on pure, all-around golfiness, and more on trying out interesting concepts

I like how three of four half-byte languages were developed almost simultaneuously, and without any coordination or sharing of ideas

We all just came up with ideas for ½BCS langs, and made them in parallel (from what I can tell)

I'm thinking about a 5⁄8BCS lang

Radvylf Programs

That would be interesting to see. I tried a 6-bit one once, but the fairly significant loss in number of operators just wasn't really worth the small decrease in size

With 5-bit it's still in that 4-bit zone where the smaller operator size actually gives it an edge

But anyway, I'll see y'all tomorrow!

o/

@RadvylfPrograms Yeah, and I don't think half-byte would work for something like Jelly

@RadvylfPrograms o/

3:19 AM

cya radvylf

Radvylf Programs

3:51 AM

Back, on mobile. Brought up the idea with my mom and she was mostly supportive of it :o. I think she's more surprised that I listen to music than anything. She's got some worries about the details of it of course, but I'm so excited since it seems like she possibly will support me being able to go.

I was also able to somewhat avoid the topic of what band it is

My music taste doesn't in any way reflect my personality, so it'll probably be surprising to them. I just hope they haven't heard of the band, so they don't have any preconceived notions

But anyway, good night for real this time, and in both ways. o/

o/

4:26 AM

@DialFrost uhh i havent played in a while but i would say around 500 games in blitz

4:45 AM

@AidenChow hmm

how bout total games @AidenChow

for all variants and everything

Basic functionality of Bubbler/piet is all complete, so it is now in open beta

6

@Bubbler COOL!

aiden how many games u play in total?

5:08 AM

@AidenChow?

5:31 AM

huh ok so i just looked at my lichess acct and i have 250 blitz games lol

@DialFrost heres my acct if u wanna take a look (i havent played in a while): lichess.org/@/chicken_buttt

also ignore my username =P

nice username

XD

interesting

u'll never guess my username tho

:)

5:46 AM

cuz i typed it randomly

but it somehow forms a partial word

@DialFrost lol ok, never gonna get it then

@AidenChow hehe

search me up

its "groshks"

lichess.org/@/Lyxal

Gotta love that sudden drop in rapid

no way thats actually u

lichess.org/@/groshks

me ^

i dont play much rapid

@DialFrost it is

5:53 AM

@DialFrost nice stats!

@AidenChow nah i suck

i have played 24000 games lol

anyone 1v1?

@AidenChow 1v1?

@DialFrost nah ur rating is basically double mines

im gonna lose 1000%

@AidenChow y not :)

theres ppl in my school

who are triple ur rating

yeah but im still gonna get destroyed

6:52 AM

@allxy I can write specific functions anonymously, e.g. non-negative multiplication: ((q((N M)((q((F N M)(F F 0 N M)))(q((F A N M)(i M(F F(a A N)N(s M 1))A)))N M)))3 5)

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Apr '2215

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

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