The Nineteenth Byte - 2015-09-07 (page 1 of 2)

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12:00 AM

The stack is (2 3 [4 5]). Then there is a split command. The stack is now ((2 3 4)(2 3 5)) . Then multiplication is performed, so it is ((2 12)(2 15) . Then an unsplit turns the final stack into (2 [12 15])

That's not actually a useful example.

Probably something better would be if there is an array of blocks, like (1 2 3 [{+}{*}]) then the result after splitting, evaling, and merging would be (1 [5 6])

2 hours later…

New Sandboxed Posts

1:46 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Let's make a word-search! answer-chaining In this challenge, we will together create a word-search containing many programs in different languages. I have started us off with a grid of 25-by-25 blanks (·), some of which are replaced by a Java program printing Code Golf. To answer, choose a lan...

@Ypnypn I like the idea.

2:01 AM

0

Q: Is it not OK to reuse a strategy?

For this question I wrote a small script to compress a string by replacing substrings that occur a lot with single characters that aren't already in the string (inspired by the ES6 answer), and posted this answer (which managed to be shorter than the ES6 answer because I replaced more duplicate s...

discussion clarification

@PhiNotPi I really like your ideas for your new language, I think it's going to be super cool. :)

2:30 AM

Does anyone have any more feedback about my proposed word-search challenge?

3:20 AM

@Ypnypn maybe a rule disallowing comments or no-ops?

@orlp I have an idea for pyth and the multidimensional support

@Maltysen Why?

So each program actually has to be written creatively and not like print('Java')\n#00000000000...

or is that ok?

@Maltysen Well, that would give the poster a very bad score

Also, I'm not really sure how to unambiguously define comments

sorry

major misunderstanding of objective

*facepalms*

4:09 AM

@Maltysen hrm?

@AlexA. Unfortunately I do not think I will be able to make the "parallelization" operate as described

Chris Jester-Young

@PhiNotPi Is that a Perl limitation?

No

An "I have no clue what I'm doing" limitation

Chris Jester-Young

Hahahaha.

I would have to stop coding in Java if I adhere to that limitation :P

Chris Jester-Young

4:23 AM

@PhiNotPi If only I had copious free time, I could actually help with that.

/me has done a fair bit of Perl programming in a past life.

@Optimizer But but but but...I thought Java is easy peasy. ;-)

/me has also done a lot of Java programming.

(In fact, even though my day job involves C# and not Java, I still do Java programming sometimes. ;-))

4:41 AM

@PhiNotPi I find myself faced with this limitation often.

@ChrisJester-Young Have we already pestered you about whether you prefer spaces or tabs for indentation when programming?

(Note that the correct answer is spaces)

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Spaces forever.

5

I actively expand tabs I find, unless we're talking about languages that distinguish.

(e.g., Makefiles must use tabs.)

😎

I do the same re tab expansion

We should really invent a replacement for GNU Make that can use spaces in place of tabs.

Chris Jester-Young

Lol.

But yeah, both at my last job and this job, spaces are standard.

I knew there was a reason why SE is superior...

Chris Jester-Young

At my last job, there was one programmer who expressed a strong preference for tabs, and held a spaces-vs-tabs debate for a while, until our CTO stepped in and said that it's spaces, no more debate. :-P

4:44 AM

:D

Chris Jester-Young

Said programmer no longer worked there. :-P

Did he leave over a preference for tabs??

Chris Jester-Young

I don't think the CTO held a strong personal preference one way or another, and really most of our team didn't have strong preferences either, but he felt that the debate was counterproductive and it'd just be better to name one style and be done.

Also this is a relevant and very interesting article from Jeff Atwood. Chances are you've already read it. ;)

@AlexA. Behold Bubblegum.

3

Chris Jester-Young

4:47 AM

@AlexA. If I had read it, I don't remember it any more. Anyway, I skimmed it and agree with it, pretty much.

I'm glad that most language communities have a standard formatting style (e.g., Java has a standard formatting style, that most Java programmers are expected to follow unless they have good reason not to).

@Dennis I hath beheld it and lo! it is glorious.

@ChrisJester-Young A certain user here (cough @Geobits cough) uses Java and lives a life of tab sin.

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. The Java standard style does not prescribe tabs-vs-spaces.

Clearly we should rectify that.

Chris Jester-Young

It prescribes whether opening braces are on the same line (yes), how many spaces precede that opening brace (1), how many spaces follow keywords like if, while, switch, etc. (1), etc.

Ah, okay. Good conventions to have. Makes it easier when a lot of people are all working on something.

Chris Jester-Young

4:51 AM

Anyway, I just stick with the mainstream formatting standards for Java when I write Java code.

So much easier on the eyes when everything looks consistent.

Yes!

Imagine how much better it would look with tabs!

3

Chris Jester-Young

inb4: we don't use Hungarian notation at Stack Exchange. :-P

(Sorry, had to mention this since many Microsoft shops do actually use Hungarian, including my first job.)

I'm really, really glad SE doesn't use it.

Chris Jester-Young

:-D

4:54 AM

@Dennis ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ

If code is clear and well documented, Hungarian notation just creates unnecessary noise.

Btw @Dennis, I love that Bubblegum is tagged with "unusable for programming." XD

So many frowns... A quick look at the Bubblegums reference implementation should tell you that I actually don't care. :P

It's not a frown per se

Well, it is. Finding a program with hash 5e247c455fde7711206ebaa3ad0793114b77a6d16ed0497eff8e3bf98c6dba23 is not easy. :P

I figured the Esolang wiki markdown didn't support tabs.

@Dennis I don't doubt that.

@ChrisJester-Young What you're saying is true for most coding conventions, IMHO. The true value is in consistency. For example, I've used various brace styles, and don't have a strong preference at least between the reasonable ones. But there has to be consistency within a project.

5:00 AM

@AlexA. No clue. I used to use tabs for my code (mainly because my editors didn't support anything else), but I started to change that habit when SE messed up my beautifully formatted code.

After the strong reactions to my comment that 3 or 8 spaces are just as wrong as any amount, things kinda escalated. I posted the convert-spaces-to-tabs challenge just for you. :D

Chris Jester-Young

@RetoKoradi Exactly. For example, in C#, the standard style is to have opening braces on a new line. It took me a while to get used to, but I wouldn't use any other style; that's the prevailing style in C#, so it's worth using for that reason alone.

I need to figure out a name for my language.

@Dennis 💕💕💕💕

@PhiNotPi Phi

(it certainly can't be Pi)

I'm going to post version 0-1, which only does multiplication.

No addition, subtraction, or anything like that?

5:02 AM

nope

Alright

I already have a name for my new language. I just don't have a language yet.

Haha

@AlexA. ¬π

:P

@RetoKoradi What's the name?

5:04 AM

@AlexA. If I tell you, you're probably going to pull some kind of ninja stunt. ;)

Chris Jester-Young

@Dennis Φ¬Π

Most of my work has been in a single recursive function, which takes any normal math operation (like the &mult subroutine for multiplying two numbers) and applies it to multi-dimensional and irregularly-shaped array-list-thingies.

@RetoKoradi You have my most honorable word as a ninja warrior that I will not.

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. But, you can't possibly speak for everyone else who can see this.

Of course not, but I assumed Reto was talking to me specifically.

I am a ninja.

user image

5:06 AM

@AlexA. you clearly have to post your public key now

@Maltysen I don't know what that means.

so he can encrypt the name of his language

and only you can read it

@AlexA. Well, yes, you're the one I was most worried about, with all your ninja posting. But since there really isn't much yet, I think it can wait anyway. There's a good chance it will never happen.

If you want to tell me, this is my public key: 3, 2^128.

Easy to remember. :P

Here's my public key:

user image

5:09 AM

Wait, how did you get my house key?

Let yourself in. No need to knock.

@RetoKoradi Your key?

*plot twist* @RetoKoradi == @AlexA.

@RetoKoradi I'm fairly certain that this is the key to my house. Whether I live in your basement is irrelevant.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Evaluating expressions with numerical shorthands You work for a company that wants to make a user-friendly calculator, and thus you have been tasked with adding the ability for users to use "numerical shorthands," that is, letters that represent numerical values, such as k for 1000. Because your...

@Maltysen That seems unlikely, considering that I can never understand what he's talking about.

3

5:11 AM

I see how it is. The truth comes out.

Is it my accent?

Nah. Just messages that look like insider jokes, or contain weird signs/symbols that are way above my head.

But I do say an enormous amount of crap.

21 mins ago, by Alex A.

@Dennis ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ

@Dennis Yes?

What's your point? :P

@AlexA. I was feeling generous, so I added addition: github.com/PhiNotPi/GolfLang/blob/master/golflang0-1.plx

5:15 AM

2 mins ago, by Alex A.
Huh, I don't recall posting weird signs or symbols.

@Dennis That message is long dead and forgotten.

@PhiNotPi Lookin' good. :)

☑ Written in Notepad
☑ Compiles to Perl

I would expect nothing less!

@PhiNotPi maybe since your last one was "Element", maybe "Molecule" or something along that line :)

I still like "Phi."

5:19 AM

So far, it has input, output, nested array creation, multiplication, addition, and foreach

"Languwaj."

I suggest the empty string.

how about the bell character?

So GolfLang isn't the final name?

@feersum Impossible to search, difficult to mention in conversation... Perfect!

5:20 AM

nacre?

according to google, that's what pearl's are made of

@PhiNotPi 🔔?

ASCII code 7, or ^G

It literally beeps when printed to the console.

I knew what you meant, I was just going for a visual interpretation :P

SphiNotPi3000: The Language: Part 2: The Reckoning

... Electric Boogaloo

@PhiNotPi I prefer \e[?25l (hides your cursor).

5:24 AM

Yes

Careful, two can play that game. :P

Oh I know. I know. >:)

The letters H U V W are unclaimed.

HUVW it is then.

ALL THE LETTERS!!

5:27 AM

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

@PhiNotPi how about just making the name the entire ascii table in order?

including the unprintables

Speaking of esolangs' names, You are Reading the Name of this Esolang made me lol: The name of the language is pronounced as an English speaker would pronounce "you are hearing the name of this esolang."

Haha XD

Hmm, writing code that writes golfed code is somewhat limited after all. One of my computers has been busy all day, and I don't think it will be successful.

5:43 AM

I could name it after a subatomic particle.

@Maltysen what was your idea?

ah hello

^ Awesome idea

it was to use C to give commands to the parser

what do you mean

5:45 AM

well, they would be translated to other commands by the parser

'they'?

'other'?

one should never have C with a number literal after it

like C5

or whatever

because they could just put the actual character

so, for example printing modes

I'm going to sign off for tonight.

Let me know if anyone thinks of a good name for a new golfing language.

we could make a horizontal printing mode for ascii art challenges

that turns on when you do C1

@Maltysen C5 would give a single character string containing ascii value 5

5:46 AM

but there is no point in that

similarly, C20 == " "

because you could just type in the actual character

using C dynamically will do as you said

@Maltysen not if the number comes from the input, or is dynamically calculated

but with a constant there is no point

oh I see

you want to distinguish at lexer level to see if a constant comes after it

so 'C20' would be one token

5:48 AM

yep

taking the jumping jack challenge as an example, make one of them do a clear screen

here are some other ideas for commadns I had:

C0 default printing mode

C1: horizontal gravity down

C2: horizontal gravity up

I don't like making Pyth a state machine

where functions do different things based on the state you are in

put this is really just for printing

I don't really care TBH =/

it's just not a programming style I can get behind

well how about the general idea

with using C at the lexer level

for stuff like clear screen

I don't like it tbh

firstly, it would only have to be 0-9

5:51 AM

yes

because I don't want to separate spaces in case I want to write C2 32

secondly, in Pyth5 we have an entirely new namespace

$_

so that's another ~64 functions/variables/constants we can fill

so instead of .n0 for pi it'd just be $p

yeah but I thought that was just for constants

I like it much more if we'd keep C as is and then use $

not commands

@Maltysen tbh I don't see a reason to limit ourselves to constants

5:52 AM

k guess that would be fine

it'd be mostly constants

and maybe some particular, not yet decided, 'category' of functions

reserving an entire namespace for constants seems just too much

6:05 AM

@Maltysen by the way

this answer of yours is invalid

2

A: Lookalike shapes

Pyth - 14 bytes Filters by comparing quotients, then maps indexOf. xLQfqcFSTcFvzQ Test Suite.

3 hours later…

9:18 AM

999

Anime & Manga – anime.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for anime & manga fans.

Currently in public beta.

@AlexA. Turn your screen upside down and it's 666 days in beta ;)

9:35 AM

What's up with everyone changing their avatar

You should try it

It's liberating :D

I'm not sure what I should choose for mine :(

user image

... the hell

It was the first result for a search for your username :)

9:43 AM

no idea what this is

my username is a song name from the game Tales Of Symphonia

The 4th result on Google image is much more interesting imo ;D

Haha I noticed that :D

10:04 AM

"They banned my MAC - Adress? ... Haha noobs I use windows" --- joke of the Day

10:19 AM

@BetaDecay What happened to your -15????

@flawr My avatar or the actual answer?

@BetaDecay Avatar!

Oh well during the mod elections I was worried that people would be influenced to downvote or simply not upvote

> By the time of the voting for the moderator elections, Beta Decay thought it wise to change his avatar for fear of people being subconsciously influenced to downvote after seeing his avatar. Although, that wasn't much of a help as -15 had already become very popular and is automatically associated with Beta Decay forever.

And also:

> I feel like I have -15 tattooed on my forehead, reading Optimizer's latest edit :D

Wow, we just edited the same post at exactly the same time :O

10:28 AM

Super Ninja'd?

:D

Kinda haha :D

I do not see your edit

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/5841/revisions

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/revisions/5841/4

no, I did not edit that in

No, I did

10:30 AM

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/revisions/5841/5

oh, you were just talking about the time.

Yeah haha

in that case, I was 6 seconds after yours. :P

Bloody hell that's slim :D

11:01 AM

I just noticed that your original -15 answer now is at -16, so you'd have to change your avatar anyway.

(And I didn't even cast my vote yet.)

It went down to -19, then four people upvoted it back to -15 and recently someone downvoted it again

2 days ago, by Beta Decay

user image

11:26 AM

If only it was big dosa

11:41 AM

user image

12:39 PM

0

Q: Horizontal hystogram of word length

Input A list of words separated by any number of spaces. Output A horizontal ASCII art histogram, where the n-th line is composed by as many asterisks (*) as the n-th word is long. Example usage The > signals user input, you should not input it when testing the program. > This is an example...

code-golf ascii-art

2 hours later…

2:14 PM

0

Q: Programming with Bits and Bytes

In this challenge you are going to write an interpreter for a simple language I've made up. The language is based on a single accumulator A, which is exactly one byte in length. At the start of a program, A = 0. These are the languages instructions: !: Inversion This instruction simply inverts ...

code-golf interpreter bitwise

2:33 PM

Apparently, I just earned the privelege "Access to site analytics". Did the same thing just happen to all other high-rep users?

dont remember

New Sandboxed Posts

2:48 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Introduction code-golf Create a program that does the same thing forwards and backwards, in different languages with different comment styles (i.e. // and #). Challenge This program can take any input and write anything to stdout and sterr†. However, the program must output exactly the same t...

@isaacg Yes, it's a new 5k+ rep privilege (25k+ rep on graduated sites).

OK, thanks

New shiny things \o/

apparently I reached 5000 rep for site analytics ^_^

apparently it has been mentioned above -_-

3:03 PM

Apparently I haven't just earned the privilege "Access to site analytics"

And I was excited about having no more new privileges to work for :P

@BetaDecay It said 5k rep needed.

@isaacg Anything interesting there?

Our search traffic is ~2/3 google, 1/3 stackexchange

Everything else we basically already knew

Oh. That's okay then

link to these stats?

3:07 PM

codegolf.stackexchange.com/site-analytics

codegolf.stackexchange.com/site-analytics I think

Damn it

I need more reputation. :/

Ahem codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/20656/…

3:28 PM

@isaacg You don't happen to have a version of Pyth which doesn't use the PIL, do you? :P

Do you mean you don't have PIL and want to use the rest? Or do you mean you don't have PIL and want to do image processing?

I don't have PIL on Python 3 and want to use the rest of the interpreter

OK, all you have to do is the following:

Take the current source code

Got it up

Delete line 20 of macros.py

You're done.

3:31 PM

That's it?

Yeah

Oh nice, thanks :D

Python is dynamic, so it doesn't care if your source code shouldn't compile

No problem

So what's PIL used for?

image processing

Specificaly, reading and writing images to and from an internal format

to and from files

Hm.

3:37 PM

Hm?

I could probaly wrap that code in a try-except block

And tell it to only throw an error when someone actually runs the image processing stuff

Or jsut move the imports there

It would solve the problem you're having

Yeah. I imagine a few people have that problem too

Namely "image processing stuff gets in your way, even though you don't care about that feature.

Yeah, it's the only non-standard library I think we use

I'l probably do that

4:30 PM

0

Q: Ad in any computer in network

Why, when i visit any site, i get ad displayed? It goes only in my home, from any computer. Sites, for example, where i 100% sure shouldn't be ad's: http://www.mcdonalds.com/ http://london-rewire.co.uk/ I already try to uninstall all latest programs, re-instal ubuntu - but nithing changed.

^ Dude should have used jQuery.

4:54 PM

Hey everyone, I am wondering if a question like this one is still considered on topic:

14

Q: An improved version of GolfScript

I am planning to write an improved GolfScript for even shorter programs that can do more things. This is not a challenge; it is a request for feedback and tips on what I should do. (see tags) I'm not sure if this should be Community Wiki. If you think so, just flag for a moderator to convert it ...

tips golfscript golfing-language

It's essentially "What features could be added to this golfing language"?

I'd like to ask that for Pyth as an extra way to look for new features to add

meta

@isaacg Hm. You might consider taking this to meta to get community consensus on whether it's still on topic. /cc @MartinBüttner @Doorknob @Dennis

OK, but I wanted to start in the chat

Fair

Dark

wut?

4:57 PM

Biased

(Sorry Dennis, I forgot to CC you above :|)

Poor Dennis

Oh he's fine. He knows I love him. I tell him so often that his wife is jealous.

Haha.

user image

That reminds me, I found your selfie earlier today

5:00 PM

so .. @Dennis re: your deleted message - I think the opposite is more true

I agree with Optimizer. It would probably go down well on meta

@BetaDecay This is me bothering @Dennis for attention. Little known fact: I'm actually his pet bird.

I deleted it since I thought I misunderstood your meta comment. If you suggest asking on meta if this question would be on topic, great. But meta is for discussions concerning the main site, so a question about the design of a language is definitely off topic on meta.

^^^

Right, that makes sense.

So, the consensus of the chat is ask on meta?

5:02 PM

Yes

OK, will do

Is there somewhere other than SE that would be available?

Personally I'm rather torn on whether such questions should still be on topic, but my gut says no.

birds have guts?

Uh, yeah. How else would they digest stuff?

5:04 PM

So, there's the issues site of GitHub

But the overwhelming majority of Pyth users are on Stackexchange, so it'd be way more effective here.

That's true.

But I'll go with whatever meta says

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The Lazy Programmer's XML Parser code-golf kolmogorov-complexity parsing NOTE: This is still a vague idea. All feedback is welcome. Background You are working as a programmer for [some imaginary company]. Your task for this week is to program an XML parser that takes in data about available p...

I'd also be interested to hear feedback on whether the golfing-language tag should stick around.

What's it used for atm?

Oh I see what was it used for

5:08 PM

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/golfing-language

Kind of goes hand-in-hand with Isaac's soon-to-be meta question.

(so many hyphens)

Yeah,-if-that's-around-isaacg's-question-is-probably-on-topic

I disagree. I think the tag should probably be eliminated unless the consensus is that Isaac's question is on topic.

5:25 PM

You all trust me now apparently :D

?

I've just passed 4k

Oh nice!

Congrats :)

we trust you to be -15

Haha thanks Alex

5:30 PM

Scooby Doobie @Doo, where are you?

We've got some work to do now

The next line of the Scooby Doo cartoon theme song.

oh .. didn't realize :D

Scooby Doo Theme Song

5:47 PM

Askeed it

Upvoteed it

1

Q: Can I ask a question about improving a golfing language?

I noticed an old question, An improved version of GolfScript, which asked, as a tips question, for people to suggest ways to improve GolfScript. This was a well-received question, but times may have changed. I'd like to ask a similar question about Pyth, for obvious reasons. I'd like to know whe...

discussion policy asking-questions

Answereed it

6:04 PM

@PhiNotPi T. Who cares that someone else already used the name?

6:15 PM

@AlexA. huh, I don't remember hearing that song before... I'm much more familiar with this one:

Fun Lovin' Criminals - Scooby Snacks (MusicVideo)

Martin Büttner

6:37 PM

I guess you guys have already been discussing the site analytics?

yeah, like they are "meh"

...and... its an year!

Martin Büttner

6:55 PM

@PeterTaylor I think I was overthinking this GolfScript program: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/57116/8478

I ended up just using your technique for the entire code and mapping it onto the input once

I just found a crazy Perl module: "Quantum Superpositions" search.cpan.org/~lembark/Quantum-Superpositions-2.02/lib/…

New Sandboxed Posts

7:30 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dynamic ASCII Encoder! code-golf Introduction Some ASCII characters are just so expensive these days... To save money you've decided to write a program that encodes expensive characters using inexpensive ones. However, character prices change frequently and you don't want to modify your prog...

7:41 PM

@Optimizer What's in a year?

Yearling badge

1 year since I registered

Martin Büttner

7:55 PM

bloody hell... just lost my massive edit with an almost complete explanation for both programs of Splitting up ASCII -.-

My condolences. How did it happen?

Martin Büttner

stupidity mostly

tab + backspace ... "Leave this page?" or "Stay on page?" ... guess which one I clicked

Banana?

Ouch.

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The Nineteenth Byte

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