@RobinAshe You present a compelling case. I'm going to look into this with my BJJ instructors. I still wonder if you're talking about a generic BJJ blue belt's guillotine, or that of a guillotine-specializing purple belt's. I'm also not sure if your argument would hold for a BJJ player looking to learn the double-leg with minimal effort.
@DaveLiepmann pretty much everyone really. I've been of this opinion for a while, so I'm always thinking about it or commenting on it when I watch fights, and the only time I was surprised was when Joe Stevenson nailed it on Dokonjonosuke Mishima 6 years ago.
Also, incidentally, I just watched what I predicted happen at the recent One FC, I believe the match was Chilson vs Mulyadi, there were several guillotines that looked tight, and Jason Chambers was talking it up as if it was close, but no matter how tight it looked, Chilson kept getting out.
I would expect any guillotine specialising purple belt if they're successful and they're not sprawling first to be initially working it more as a headlock to reposition their hips and get a good angle, and then transition to the guillotine
more likely though, they sprawl. That's what Ben Greer was doing for his guillotines at the Canadian trials, and the other top tier guys (Elliott Bayev and Mathew Bagshaw) didn't bother going for it even once (I would argue because the position wasn't right to successfully finish it)
i'm not sure it's possible to learn a good double leg with minimal effort. everyone I see doing them that hasn't put the time in has hips and shoulders at the same level, or worse
GSP and Penn get away with breaking that rule because they're excellent strikers and time their doubles for when the guy is bolt upright.
for the guillotine, MMA & No-Gi, although I don't think the rule significantly changes when you add the gi. what changes is that there are a bunch of lapel and collar chokes to try, that I would expect to be higher percentage finishers and lower risk than a guillotine
for takedowns, it's damn hard to get a double on a defensive bjjer in stand up, although a good wrestler will be able to nail any number of other takedowns on such a bjjer
gi bjj, I think morote gari is the worst technique to teach anyone because it's the one technique everyone is prepared to defend against
