ELL's Cabin

iKlsR

00:17

@ASR hi, been busy. You can find me in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/8888/the-renderfarm most days

Damkerng T.

01:10

5

Q: Single-word vs. phrasal verbs: When to use the latter, and is the former more formal?

When can we use phrasal verbs instead of verbs? For example, 'look back' is a phrasal verb. And the verbs 'recall' and 'remember' have the same meaning as that phrasal verb. 2. So when can we use 'recall' instead of 'look back'? Can we say verbs are a bit more formal than phrasal verbs?

An interesting edit.

Essentially, the edit adds 1. 2. and 3. to mark the previously unobvious embedded questions in the question.

Though I think it's not the best edit, rolling it back is probably a little too much. Then again, I'm not sure if we want to have more of that. Or do we?

Any opinion?

tchrist

01:29

He seems to be trying.

I'm afraid I'm too tired to think clearly enough to opine.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I upvoted his answer to another question.

Jude Niroshan

06:02

I will be on leave in these following days correct ?

Anonymous

on the following days, perhaps?

Jude Niroshan

Good Morning!

Anonymous

Morning! :-)

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat yes. I thought about it

@snailboat I need some help to write a thanks giving letter as a reply to this email which I have sent to my HR manager months back.

Hi Nidukani,
    I would like to inform you that I need to leave the office early on Mondays & Tuesdays in order to attend some classes. Classes will start at 5:30 p.m. Therefore I need to leave the office on those two days at 5:00 p.m.
   Please excuse me until end of October as I have these classes throughout the semester. I have already discussed this matter with Induni and she wanted me to inform you of this.

--
Regards,
Jude Niroshan

Anonymous

the end of October

Anonymous

06:12

Ah, you're writing a follow-up to that message.

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat yes. exactly

I am struck at how should i start with...

Anonymous

What have you written so far?

Anonymous

Ah, I see.

Anonymous

What do you want to express?

Jude Niroshan

I was referring to this blog to get some idea. writeexpress.com/thanky12.html

I took this sentence. I think this would be pretty ok to include. "Your generosity is greatly appreciated."

These are points I want to address.
- These classes are over now as my semester has comes to the end.
- I no more want to leave early like this without informing. *trying to get show how honest employee I am (it's true; I am a good employee) *
- Thanks for allowing me to go early without any barrier

That's all what I'm trying to include to my reply

Jude Niroshan

06:36

Hi Nidukani,
I would like to inform that there won't be necessaity to leave early on Mondays and Tuesdays from now onwards as semester comes to an end. Your generosity is greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Jude

@snailboat ^

Jude Niroshan

06:51

@DamkerngT. ^

Damkerng T.

08:07

@JudeNiroshan A couple of thoughts. Let's look at each sentence:

"I would like to inform that there won't be necessaity to leave early on Mondays and Tuesdays from now onwards as semester comes to an end." -- It's "inform you", and "necessary", but the real problem is that it's not clear "whose" leave it is. Your sentence sounds a bit like it's your manager's leave.

Also, if you don't mind to write won't be, consider writing I'd like to.

Hmm... maybe you meant necessity.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. yes. typo

Damkerng T.

It's still not very clear.

Jude Niroshan

should it be there won't be any necessity ?

Damkerng T.

How about: I'd like to inform you that I don't have to leave early ... as the semester will soon end (or has ended).

Jude Niroshan

but, they is totally a different idea. That is not what I want to say. I mean, I may have situation where I might need to leave early from office in future.

@DamkerngT. yes

Damkerng T.

08:12

@JudeNiroshan It's unclear for the same reason, whose necessity.

Jude Niroshan

better to avoid that word, 'necessity'

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan How about changing from now onwards to on this semester, then?

The second sentence somehow sounds very awkward, almost wrong, to me: Your generosity is greatly appreciated.

Jude Niroshan

yes. I agree

Damkerng T.

I think it could be fixed by adding something between the two sentences.

Something like I'm grateful that you granted me the chance (to leave early to continue my education).

Anonymous

As we discussed back in Monthname, I have been leaving at 5:00 p.m. on Mondays and Tuesdays to attend classes for several weeks now. I'm writing to let you know that I have now completed my classes and will no longer need to leave early, so I will be resuming my normal schedule. Thank you once more for allowing me to change my schedule. It is greatly appreciated. ← Something like this?

Anonymous

08:23

I'm no good at writing this sort of message.

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat change my schedule ?

Anonymous

Well, whatever it is you're grateful for.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. 'chance' is the best fitting word ?

Damkerng T.

You can drop the chance if you'd like.

Anonymous

I thought you changed the hours you were scheduled to work so you could attend those classes.

Jude Niroshan

08:24

I think now it is fine. Thanks for all your help

Anonymous

Writing stuff is hard on my phone for some reason.

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat yup. That's it

Anonymous

It just feels so awkward. Maybe because of how slowly I'm typing, so there's that disconnect between what I want to write and what I end up writing.

Anonymous

I type very quickly on an actual keyboard (mechanical for preference), and it always feels much more fluid…

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat happens to me everytime. Even when i use keyboard in my laptop

Anonymous

08:26

Do you all get flu shots in your parts of the world?

Anonymous

Influenza vaccine.

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat Monthname meaning? I can't find it in google. Have you typed it wrong ?

Anonymous

No, I just didn't know what month you sent the original message in ;-)

Anonymous

So you can replace it with August or such.

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat precisely 2015-06-30 14:46

Anonymous

08:29

You're a programmer, right? Maybe I should have written $MONTHNAME.

Anonymous

So you'd know it was a placeholder :-)

Jude Niroshan

Opps! ok. I never thought you use variables in your letters(actual letter, not characters) :D

Anonymous

1

Q: Why break the sentence- "...on the same belief. That a phone should be more..."?

While going through Apple's webpage, I found the following sentence: Every iPhone we’ve made — and we mean every single one — was built on the same belief. That a phone should be more than a collection of features. Now, my question is: What is the need to break this sentence? To my mind...

sentence-structure

Anonymous

This is a pretty good question.

Anonymous

There is a need for punctuation there, although it seems not everyone has realized it.

Anonymous

08:36

I mean, it'd be grammatical without punctuation, but it'd be different.

Anonymous

The punctuation has a specific purpose.

Anonymous

It's not a mistake.

Anonymous

So it's a great question, really.

Jude Niroshan

@snailboat As I am reply to the email which contains the time stamp which I requested the permission, how should I adjust the starting of that sentence ?

As we discussed back in last June, I have been leaving at

Anonymous

You can leave it out entirely, if you like. back in last June seems odd.

Anonymous

08:40

You can just say As we discussed in June.

Jude Niroshan

yes. If i leave that out, "As we discussed I have been leaving at" ?

Anonymous

Wouldn't last June be June 2014, anyway? I guess it's ambiguous, but that was the first interpretation that came to mind.

Jude Niroshan

As we discussed I have been leaving at 5:00 p.m. on Mondays and Tuesdays to attend classes for several weeks now.

Anonymous

You need to remove back.

Anonymous

Ah, you removed it!

Jude Niroshan

08:42

it is correct, right?

Anonymous

It looks grammatical. The goal of the sentence was to remind them of the topic you're discussing (it's been months!) and also to remind them that you already discussed it with them.

Anonymous

Anyway, it's up to you!

Jude Niroshan

alright, back in June 2015

Actually, that's better

Thank you @DamkerngT. @snailboat

Damkerng T.

Ah, I was away for ELLing!

Anonymous

I tried to make it relatively formal since I know you prefer formal English. Here in the US we tend to use informal English in corporate email.

Jude Niroshan

08:47

@snailboat In Sri Lanka, using proper english is considered to be person who knows english

just using some slangs won't consider so

Damkerng T.

Breaking sentences like this is, as far as I can tell, very common in novels. So, it's unsurprising in creative writing. I think. — Damkerng T. 3 mins ago

Anonymous

I think here in the US (my phone insists I spell it U.S.) we also avoid showing disproportionate gratitude—it tends to look obsequious.

Anonymous

I don't really know the corporate culture where you are, and I assume you know it better than me. :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It seems like if it were in the US, (I'd like to/I wanted to) thank you ... would be right at the first sentence in the letter.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It echoes speech.

Damkerng T.

08:49

nods

Anonymous

Sentences don't exist in natural language. They're an artificial construct.

Anonymous

They're a useful construct, but nothing more.

Anonymous

Two speakers transcribing the same speech could easily come up with different sentence boundaries without either of them being incorrect.

Damkerng T.

I think it's weird to assume or to think that the writer is a non-native speaker because they punctuated the sentences like that.

Anonymous

I think non-native speakers would be less likely to come up with this sort of example unless they were very advanced.

Damkerng T.

08:53

@snailboat Transcribing real speech is sometimes confusing in English. But in Japanese, it gives me a headache!

Anonymous

Mind you, I wouldn't write it that way. But I'm not being paid to write that sort of thing :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hah! Good point!

Anonymous

So my opinion only counts for so much.

Damkerng T.

I think I have longamscriptumphobia lately. :P

Anonymous

I do think dropping that would be strange.

Anonymous

08:58

Sesquipedalophobia?

Damkerng T.

Yes! Long posts, to be precise.

I don't know why I seem to prefer reading long posts on ELU to ones on ELL. I think it probably has something to do with the fonts.

(Zooming out doesn't really help, in my case.)

Anonymous

ELU is all fancy.

Anonymous

It's a lot nicer than the beta theme.

Damkerng T.

BTW, not an answer(!): ell.stackexchange.com/a/69470/3281

Anonymous

Flagged!

Damkerng T.

09:08

Yay!

user116848

09:46

I used the review queue for that answer.

user116848

Is there a "help" on how to use review queues? Or we just use our intuition?

user116848

I was free so I did some.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

10:00

@Arrowfar The best you get is a search bar in meta.SE.

user116848

oakley doakley.

user116848

For the answer above in "review queue" I didn't see the "spam" option just the "deletion option". Which I'm not used to. I guess on the main site we get different options/wordings.

tchrist

12:36

@Arrowfar The flag option has a spam choice.

Freddy

14:34

hola

user116848

@tchrist Yeah.

user116848

Hello @Freddy. How goes it?

Freddy

@arrow it goes well!

John B

15:22

Can someone give me some constructive criticism of my answer to a question?

-1

A: analysis of sentence: Amelia and Jessie are a great team when they play tennis together

The correct word is are. But I understand your confusion; the tricky part is the collective noun team as you point out. In CGEL Ch 5 §18.2 - Optional vs. obligatory overide: "...with collectives the [semantically motivated] override [of the subject-verb agreement] is optional..." And also in t...

Damkerng T.

15:38

Sometimes I'm really surprised by our votes.

John B

Is there something factually wrong with it or maybe it's unclear?

Damkerng T.

I think quoting some examples in CGEL (I haven't looked) may help.

The other answer keeps it simple, discussing only the OP's sentence, so it's easier to read for voters, I think.

John B

Ya, I should probably simplify it and blockquote some of the referenced text

the reasoning in other answer though, I think is wrong

plural subjects don't always have plural verbs

Damkerng T.

15:53

Hmm... I think it's technically correct.

John B

I agree that the answer is correct, the verb should be plural

but the person asking the question seemed to be more confused about the number mismatch between the subject and object

Damkerng T.

The hammer and sickle is considered singular, in the example given by CGEL.

I think we could use a better answer, but that answer is good, imho.

John B

ya, the np-coordination is conceptualized as a single unit

Damkerng T.

The OP's confusion is actually quite straightforward.

This is sometimes called "object-verb agreement", which is Unenglish. :P

John B

sometimes the object will determine the pluralization of the verb though

such as in "Eggs and bacon is my favorite breakfast" vs "Eggs and bacon are good for you."

Damkerng T.

16:01

Hmm... I think except for proximal agreement, and unintentional errors, there is none, except for some cases where it's debatable which part is the subject of the sentence.

@JohnB I think it's simpler to explain that in terms of how we think of the subject.

John B

which I think that is what the questioner was asking. my understanding is that because "a great team" can be seen as a single unit then the subject should be as well

Damkerng T.

But a great team is the object of the sentence, isn't it?

John B

is my understanding wrong that the object of the sentence plays a part in determining whether the subject should be conceptualized as a single unit?

Damkerng T.

I think it's better to focus on the subject.

I think even the OP would feel that "Kim and Pat is a nice couple" does sound weird.

John B

i agree it does sound weird to my ears too. but would it be grammatically incorrect?

Damkerng T.

16:08

(I intentionally used that example because it's likely that they may've heard "They're a nice couple" before.)

Hmm... is it correct?

Would you say, They is a nice couple?

John B

i wouldn't, no

the section in CGEL about Complementation covers collective nouns vs "number-transparent" nouns

ia800504.us.archive.org/16/items/…

"couple" is one of those words that can be either

i guess what I'm getting at is that it is not always straightforward, there are sometimes semantic overrides requiring resolution rules

Damkerng T.

16:24

nods -- I'm not sure what resolution rules are, but I think if we could solve the plurality of the subject semantically, it should be clear whether the singular or the plural verb form we should use.

Damkerng T.

16:56

0

Q: What are needed is managers with new ideas and the will to apply them

According to the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Huddleston and Pullum (page 505), the following sentence is grammatical with either "is" or "are" as the verb of the main clause: What are needed is/are managers with new ideas and the will to apply them. I'd just like to know ho...

subject-verb-agreement

Polling?

John B

It looks like it's phrased as a poll to me: "I'd just like to know how many native speakers..."

ASR

17:15

@DamkerngT. hi

Damkerng T.

Hi!

ASR

help me please

Thank you for your wonderful offer of employment by your esteemed organization as a System Engineer.
I am delighted to receive your kind offer and I gladly accept the offered position.
However, due to 3 months notice period in my company, I need to serve full notice period.
In the interview I have mentioned only 45 days,because of buyout policy there,so I thought,I will releave my company with in 30 days.
I have requested my HR with buyout policy,but he did not agree for it,because of some urgency there in project to move to production and for KT's.

@DamkerngT. i need your assistence

Damkerng T.

Lang-8 could be better, imo.

"your wonderful offer of employment by your esteemed organization as a System Engineer" sounds weird.

ASR

@DamkerngT. whats the best?

Damkerng T.

"3 months notice period" is probably better as "the 3-month notice period" or "the notice period of 3 months".

ASR

17:22

ok

Damkerng T.

@ASR Try to move "System Engineer" closer to "employment".

ASR

ok

Damkerng T.

Two yours in the same sentence look awkward to me too.

ASR

what are the other mistakes

Damkerng T.

Propositions, I think, but you should fix the order of your content first. Perhaps you wouldn't need to fix any preposition.

> Thank you for your wonderful offer of employment by your esteemed organization as a System Engineer.

You want to say/talk about:

a) thank you

b) (the) wonderful offer

c) it's an employment offer

d) it's from an esteemed organization

e) the position is System Engineer

ASR

17:29

@DamkerngT. I rellay dnt much knowlede, please give me appropriate word

Damkerng T.

It's not really about words in my opinion, it's about what you want to say.

If you have clear idea, you'll have a clear thought in mind, how you want to write it or phrase it.

Should you keep what and what in the same sentence? Should you move something over? Should you rearrange parts of it? And so on.

Now, if you have a clear idea, you can work things out on your own.

For example, let's suppose that you want to say a to e. Would you like to rearrange the order of your ideas first?

Anonymous

This could be a little bit more tactful: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/69508/…

Damkerng T.

Ahh, right.

ASR

@DamkerngT. ok

Damkerng T.

Okay as in you'd like to write them in that specific order?

@snailboat On the other hand, I think it echoes the real voice of our readers.

ASR

17:36

@DamkerngT. is this fine?

Thank you for your wonderful offer of System Engineer in your esteemed organization.

Damkerng T.

That's a little weird, just a little. The main reason, I think, is we don't normally just simply say that we offer System Engineer.

Anonymous

I don't agree with the answer, but I don't think it's all that far off. It just needs a little conceptual nudge :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat nods -- I guess they might've run into each other before.

Anonymous

It's a great question, though.

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

@ASR How about: Thank you for the wonderful offer of the employment in the position of System Engineer at your esteemed organization.

IMHO, just saying your company will sound more natural than your esteemed organization.

ASR

17:40

@DamkerngT. hmm fine, can I use ?

Anonymous

Maybe get rid of the before employment

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ah, yes!

@ASR I think you can, but my natural choice for a similar phrase would be your highly regarded company.

ASR

ok

what about this?

I am delighted to receive your kind offer and I gladly accept the offered position.

Damkerng T.

Sounds okay to me.

ASR

ok

Anonymous

17:43

Wow, three months!

ASR

@snailboat wow ??? for me it :(

my life will be change if they releave me early

Damkerng T.

Ah, I just noticed: forms --> forums! ell.stackexchange.com/a/69519/3281

ASR

Thank you for the wonderful offer of the employment in the position of System Engineer at your esteemed organization.
I am delighted to receive your kind offer and I gladly accept the offered position.
However,due to the notice period of 3 months in my company, I need to serve full notice period.
In the interview I have mentioned only 45 days,because of buyout policy there in my company,so I thought,I will releave my company with in 30 days.
For that I have requested my HR with buyout policy,but he did not agree for it,because of some urgency there in project to move to production and for K…

Anonymous

Yeah, wow! That doesn't mean it's a good thing, just that I'm surprised. I've never heard of such a thing before.

ASR

@snailboat correct sentence please

@DamkerngT. is it ok now?

Damkerng T.

17:48

I wonder if "I need to serve its full term" is more idiomatic than "I need to serve full notice period".

> In the interview I have mentioned only 45 days,because of buyout policy there in my company,so I thought,I will releave my company with in 30 days.

> In the interview, I mentioned that it was only 45 days because of the buyout policy in my company, which made me think that I could leave my company within only 30 days.

Anonymous

What is releave?

Damkerng T.

I don't know. I read it as "leave".

Or maybe it was relieved!

Wait, your reader (the new hirer) is Indian, right? @ASR

ASR

@DamkerngT. here every one say releave

Damkerng T.

Oh, what does it mean?

ASR

@DamkerngT. changing company

Damkerng T.

17:55

You leave your company twice?

Oh! Hmm...

ASR

@DamkerngT. no

only once

@snailboat got?

Damkerng T.

@ASR Is it something everyone says but doesn't use in writing, or is it something everyone says and uses in all kinds of writing?

ASR

@DamkerngT. ok

Damkerng T.

Ok what?!

ASR

you are right, re-leave meanse twice

what word can I use for it to leave

?

Damkerng T.

17:59

Isn't it leave?

ASR

leave only but I am asking other words

Damkerng T.

What does the other word mean?

(BTW, leaving the same company twice in one resignation doesn't make sense to me.)

ASR

ok, I will use leave

Damkerng T.

Besides "releave", I wasn't sure about your use of "buyout" either.

ASR

I am confused, what to say leave this company with buyout

Damkerng T.

18:05

But referring to it as "the buyout policy (of your company)" could allow the reader to make sense of in your context, I think.

What does your "buyout" mean?

Let me put it this way, in your "buyout", who pays who?

ASR

my self only pay to company

Damkerng T.

Ah, that's why I think it's strange.

In the buyout I'm more used to, the employer will pay the employee to compensate their early leave.

ASR

please tell me the right sentence for it

Damkerng T.

I think you can try keeping "the buyout policy" as some sort of jargon as I've said.

ASR

ok

Damkerng T.

18:13

There are some other minor errors in the rest of your text, but I think I've have to excuse myself. I need to finish something. I hope you will get some help from others.

ASR

thank you for your support

@snailboat 1!hi

@Catija hi

Anonymous

I think I understood the 'buyout' thing okay.

Anonymous

Although I'm not really familiar with that sort of employment contract, I think it's understandable from context.

ASR

ok

@snailboat help me

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

19:06

@ASR While we try to always help you, saying 'help me' could come off s you demanding help from us. That I believe @Snail doesn't like. I and Dam don't either.

Anonymous

19:23

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=21480

user116848

Anonymous

0

Q: What is this category of word called?

I am looking for a term that describes a specific category of words, as well as some other examples. For example, the category homonyms. Homonyms (also called homophones) are words that sound like one another but have different meanings. Some homonyms are spelled the same, like bark (the sound ...

definition

Anonymous

A single word request! Right up ELU's alley.

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