ELL's Cabin

Catija

00:33

Well, I think I've figured out one of the people who's casting all of the "Proofreading" close votes on questions that are, at best, simply in need of some more detail.

Anonymous

00:57

@Catija Oh, that user has been using the 'proofreading' reason at random for a long time.

Anonymous

Occasionally 'primarily opinion based' when they don't know the answer (because if they don't know the answer, that means it's a matter of opinion) . . .

Anonymous

I argued with them in the past, but the arguments were counterproductive, and they switched to just close voting more often and discussing the questions less often

Anonymous

So that might be partially my fault

Catija

Either way, I'd much rather that they CV as "Need more details"... at least if the question actually gets closed, the OP gets some info on how to improve the question if they follow the Details, Please link.

Anonymous

This is only slightly related, but

Anonymous

01:00

In the past, we've gotten questions migrated from ELU

Anonymous

And closed those questions as 'Details, please!'

Anonymous

I think we should try to avoid closing migrated questions this way

Anonymous

Reason being

Anonymous

'Details, please!' is a call to action, saying "We want your question on our site, we just want you to flesh it out a little so that it's answerable."

Anonymous

"Please fix up your question so we can reopen it!"

Anonymous

01:02

But rejected migrations are locked and no one can ever vote to re-open

Anonymous

And the user is unable to edit the question to add details

Anonymous

So it's very confusing for everyone

Anonymous

① The close voters asked for more details, but they'll never get those details

Anonymous

② The close voters hoped the question could be reopened, but it never will be

Anonymous

③ The asker is given a call to action but can never take that action

Anonymous

01:03

④ The question, which needs improvement, is left in a locked state and can't be deleted except by a moderator

Catija

@snailboat I agree... particularly as they get removed from the site if they get closed... so they can't actually be reopened, if I understand the migration system correctly.

Anonymous

And usually ⑤ the original is already deleted from ELU . . .

Anonymous

@Catija Yeah, it uses a 'lock' on the migrated copy of the question.

Anonymous

The lock prevents any actions that change the question: no commenting, no voting up or down, no reopen votes, no edits, no answers

Anonymous

So it's permanently stuck in the state of asking for more details.

Catija

01:04

Maybe we can get the powers that be to change how the "details please" close works? I doubt they will, though. It's not a huge group of questions.

Anonymous

We haven't been getting as many migrations from ELU lately.

Catija

@snailboat I'm glad.

Anonymous

02:06

@Lavya Same day in a week is 7 days for English speakers but 8 days for Spanish speakers. — tchrist 45 mins ago

Anonymous

In Japanese, you can say １日おきに or ２日ごとに for 'every other day'

Anonymous

The latter is literally 'every two days'

Anonymous

The former is more like 'skipping over one day'

Anonymous

Every 3 days is 2日おきに or ３日ごとに

Anonymous

Because it depends on whether you're discussing the interval between days (two days in between) or the total number of days per cycle (three days total)

Damkerng T.

02:12

@snailboat Does "every day skipping two days" make sense in English?

Anonymous

No, because skipping two days would mean it's not every day

Anonymous

Also, it's not clear that "skipping two days" is supposed to be something you're doing cyclically

Damkerng T.

nods -- I wonder if it's possible to say something "two" for "every 3 days" in English.

Anonymous

I can't think of a way off the top of my head.

Anonymous

Do something, skip two days, do something, skip two days . . .

Anonymous

02:17

I think that with おきに, you're counting days, like: ONE two three FOUR five six SEVEN eight nine

Anonymous

But with ごとに, I think you're treating them as continuous units, like "once every 72 hours" (even if it's not that precise in real life)

Anonymous

Hmm . . . now that I put that explanation into words, it doesn't seem quite like what I meant to say

Anonymous

The problem is I'm thinking of it as a graph!

Damkerng T.

I based "every day skipping two days" on a Thai expression for 2日おきに.

Anonymous

Maybe I should draw it and take a picture of what I'm thinking :-)

Anonymous

02:18

A-ha!

Damkerng T.

Lit., it's every-day-skip-two-day.

But it could as well be every-3-day.

Anonymous

Anonymous

Sorry about the handwriting―I'm bad at writing tiny :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat With a snail!

Anonymous

I wonder if the picture gets the idea across better

Damkerng T.

02:27

Hmm... I understand the idea fine before. But the picture is clear, and cuter!

(Plus it has a snail. :-)

Anonymous

Oh, good! Because I didn't think the words I chose were quite right

Anonymous

It does have a snail! :-)

Damkerng T.

02:39

I'm alone on this week's voter chart!

Anonymous

I don't see anyone on it.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hah! Interesting.

Maybe they group it by the local time.

Anonymous

Nope.

Anonymous

It's UTC.

Anonymous

But the updates do seem kind of sporadic/unreliable.

Damkerng T.

02:43

Oh, sorry! I meant this month's. :-)

Anonymous

The day/week/month turnover is the same for everyone.

Anonymous

It should show that I have either 2 or 3 votes this month.

Anonymous

My userpage shows 2.

Anonymous

It'll show 3 once the cache expires and they update it to say 3.

Anonymous

I don't know how often the voters list updates.

Anonymous

02:44

SE has this funny idea that everything needs to be cached and updated sporadically.

Damkerng T.

:-)

Anonymous

But they have lots of funny ideas about performance.

Damkerng T.

To reduce the traffic, I guess.

Anonymous

Sure.

Anonymous

I know what it's like dealing with millions of users.

Anonymous

02:45

The one thing they do I like the least is the way they rate limit.

Anonymous

Rate limits make perfect sense, but the way they do them does not.

Anonymous

Regular users doing regular things should not run into rate limits on a daily basis.

Anonymous

Making users wait and repeat actions performed at a normal pace is just bad UI.

Anonymous

The caching thing is fine.

Anonymous

But the rate limit thing is frustrating! Hehe.

user116848

02:48

Hello @snailboat. How are you?

Anonymous

I wonder how often the voters list updates.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar I'm fine.

Anonymous

I'm currently drawing little snails.

user116848

"Two cupfuls to a gallon" and "Two cupfuls in a gallon" mean the same thing. "One in three young people" means well, literally, one in three people or "one out of three people". "One to three young people" means from one to three young people which could be 1, 2 or 3. — Arrowfar 6 hours ago

Anonymous

That question needs complete sentences to make sense.

user116848

02:52

Maybe I'll convert my comment into an answer.

user116848

So I wrote this the other day:

user116848

in The Overlook Hotel, 2 days ago, by Arrowfar

It's Pompeii and Vesuvius is about to erupt

Anonymous

> To get the proper amount of water, add two cupfuls to a gallon.
> The ratio is two cupfuls to a gallon.
> I drank anywhere from two cupfuls to a gallon of water a day.

Anonymous

All of these have different grammar.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Poor Pliny.

Damkerng T.

02:57

@Deep If that's all, my two-word comment above should suffice ;-) — snailboat 2 hours ago

Hehe!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. My point being, there's actually more to the question than that, and it wouldn't hurt for them to describe it in more detail

Damkerng T.

Or rephrase the question.

Anonymous

I wouldn't vote to close without more detail, though, since it's obvious to me what the focus is.

Anonymous

So they don't have to add more detail.

Damkerng T.

Oh! (smiling after reading StoneyB's answer :-)

Anonymous

03:00

The verb should agree with both disjuncts, ideally.

Anonymous

If it doesn't, then not all speakers will accept it. You can make most speakers happy by moving the plural disjunct next to the verb, though.

Anonymous

That way you get agreement with nearest AND agreement with greater number.

Anonymous

But some people want I to come last.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That's perhaps the most important point.

Anonymous

And some people are unhappy regardless of what you do if the disjuncts differ in number.

Damkerng T.

03:01

nods

user116848

@snailboat Your snail Pliny? What happened?

Anonymous

I'm not sure if it's clear, but the grammar here with OR subjects ("disjunctive" subjects) is different from the grammar with AND subjects ("conjunctive" subjects)

Damkerng T.

I guess if I chose to write it as Neither they nor I is an idiot, it would sound wrong to many speakers.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Certainly.

Anonymous

Be is also special in having extra forms other verbs don't have.

Anonymous

03:03

Consider:

Anonymous

> Neither THEY nor I like ice cream.

Anonymous

You can say "THEY like ice cream" and "I like ice cream" normally.

Anonymous

So like goes with both disjuncts.

Anonymous

But with be, you've got all these extra forms.

Anonymous

"THEY are ice cream" but "I am ice cream"

Damkerng T.

03:05

Neither they nor I is makes the most sense, imho, because it's neither they nor I. :P

Anonymous

@Arrowfar No, the real Pliny. The eruption of Mount Vesuvius killed the real Pliny!

user116848

@snailboat Ahh I just searched the internet. I see!

user116848

Pliny the Younger

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, born Gaius Caecilius or Gaius Caecilius Cilo (61 – c. 113), better known as Pliny the Younger (/ˈplɪni/), was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. Pliny's uncle, Pliny the Elder, helped raise and educate him. Both Pliny the Elder and Younger were witnesses to the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 AD, in which the former died. Pliny wrote hundreds of letters, many of which still survive, that are of great historical value for the time period. Some are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian Tacitus. Pliny served as an imperi...

user116848

I thought your snail :)

Damkerng T.

The "cut" of a garment is its shape, conferred upon it by the shapes into which the fabric is cut. An improbable "cut" is one which is so extravagant or outré that it defies tailoring convention. — StoneyB 1 hour ago

I remember that I thought Cookie Monster could understand much more difficult stuff.

Personally, I think it's GR.

It's also a potentially good candidate for our HNQ (because the question is easy, so many can write answers, and the algorithm favors questions that have many answers).

Anonymous

03:21

@Arrowfar My snail is named after Pliny the Elder :-)

Anonymous

My snails are doing fine, but they're asleep.

Damkerng T.

9 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

I concur with @TBridges42. Far too many folks post answers in comments and make it incredibly difficult to find the questions that are actually answerless. — Omnidisciplinarianist 2 days ago

@snailboat zzz :-)

user116848

@snailboat When they wake up tell them Arrowfar says hi :)

Freddy

11:25

hola

Damkerng T.

Halo!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo!

Freddy

12:14

wow that was lot of conversation

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Indeed.

Very charming.

Damkerng T.

@Freddy Where is it? Where is it?

Oh, the three hola/Halo!/Hullo!

Freddy

currently reading Shantaram

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Currently chatting with Freddy.

Freddy

Great :-)

word of the day Loot

For me it's very common because it is basically Hindi word

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:22

@Freddy Bah.

Lemme think of something smart to say.

Freddy

Sure.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Forget it.

I'll shoot my smart thingies at @Dam.

Damkerng T.

@Freddy Oh, I didn't know that it's from Hindi.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Shouldn't you be starring the message below it?

Freddy

@inaz He is not as smart as you are

Damkerng T.

12:28

LOL

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Freddy

My friend thinks he is smart. He told me an onion is the only food that makes you cry, so I threw a coconut at his face.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm pretty sure lemons can make you cry very nicely.

Freddy

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M What did the blanket say when it fell of the bed?

Damkerng T.

@Freddy Ouch!

Freddy

12:43

OH SHEET

Damkerng T.

Sheet!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Freddy Last I checked, blankets didn't talk.

Damkerng T.

@Freddy Is Shantaram the novel that is based on a true story?

(I think it was mentioned in ELL chat room before.)

Freddy

@dam yes

Damkerng T.

Ahh

user116848

15:37

Wow, this is cool:

user116848

> If I say something that sounds snarky, imagine that I put a :) or a ;) after it. Body language doesn't translate well over the internet.

user116848

I read that in someone's profile.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arrowfar It's true.

user116848

Yeah I know.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

(: ;)

user116848

15:54

I don't remember that emoticon. Is that a crying face?

user116848

Or a wink maybe?

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sometimes I am reading my old chat messages and I even sound different to me, it is the all medium (chat) I guess.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Dam I just called someone on the main site to join chat,

customer beware.

Some English songs use a pretty weird language/slanguage, along with their weird intonations and/or dialectal pronunciations, and as if that wasn't enough already, the words are drown in a sea of onomatopoeia use/misuse. On one aspect, listening to any English is good for listening. I've never heard ignoring what is being said is bad in any ways. It's actually beneficial. After all of that self-thoughts, I conclude this question is unfortunately rightfully VTC'd as "primarily opinion-based". You might go to English Language Learners Chat and discuss it though. You'll be highly welcome there! — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 1 min ago

Cardinal

I am a fan of English songs. but, of course, I listen to songs which are easy to understood

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo @Jason! Welcome to the chatroom!

Cardinal

16:08

:)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Cardinal Hullo!

Welcome!

Cardinal

heyyyy

user116848

Hey!

Cardinal

Let me ask you? ! what type of music do you listen, frequently ?

Jason Melançon

Yeah it was an interesting question. He was asking whether ignoring the lyrics was deleterious to listening skills.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:10

@Cardinal I listen to soundtracks, hehe.

They're not typically accompanied with voice.

I've not been doing any listening thingies for like, 2 years!

Oh, wait, if you don't count @Dam's listening practices.

@JasonMelançon Unfortunately, those questions can't be rightfully answered on ELL.

Cardinal

yep, Lyrics are cool, they are really helpful !

Jason Melançon

Right, I was hoping he'd take your suggestion and show up here.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

He's actually Iranian, like me.

Which means chances that he'll meet are not that high.

Cardinal

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M what is funny ? i mean hehe ? did i made a mistake ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Cardinal The fact that what I listen to doesn't really have anything English.

People usually expect I listen to Iglesias's songs.

Cardinal

16:13

oh, you mean non-vocal music !

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Cardinal It's usually nonvocal.

Cardinal

So you are iranian ? And what is that Russian name ?

:D

Jason Melançon

Isn't it just something cleverly spelled backwards?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You're Russian?

@JasonMelançon Scratch that "cleverly", but yeah.

Cardinal

and who is Iranian like you ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:15

Me.

Cardinal

yop

Jason Melançon

The guy who asked the question about listening to English music lyrics was Iranian.

Cardinal

you said he is actually Iranian like me :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arrow is from Pakistan. @Dam is from Thailand. @snail and @catija are from the US.

@Nathan is from Saturn.

Cardinal

and Me, Caspian Sea ! Iran :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:16

@Copper is from Russia.

@Cardinal Oh?

Cardinal

near the russia :

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Wait wait wait, you're Iranian, or actually some kinda sea monster?

Cardinal

:D something like that

user116848

Yeah ping everyone and make this place lively ;-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Something like the grinning Iranian sea monster?

@Arrowfar

user116848

16:17

No one talks here much anyways these days.

Cardinal

Caspian Sea = Darya e Mazandaran :D

got it ? :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hah!

I'm from Tabriz.

Cardinal

good, and what make you to live here ? :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Huh?

@Arrowfar They do, proof: scrolling up ™

Just, not as talkative.

Cardinal

I mean what do you do ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:20

Natural consequence of chat split.

@Cardinal I'm a student. 16.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yeah unfortunately.

Cardinal

fine, very good

Arrow, and what about you ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arrowfar You can talk to yourself as much as you want though.

@Cardinal He lives for a writing.

I mean writes for a living.

And lives for a whining about the hot weather there.

Cardinal

you mean he is writer ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yeah, he's a semi-writer.

Cardinal

16:21

a writer

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I never asked him what he does though.

Cardinal

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Cardinal BTW you can edit chat messages here.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hah! What's the point in that? I used to love talking to snail, Copper, you and others.

user116848

@Cardinal I'm from Pakistan. And hello!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:22

@Arrowfar Ask that from @Dam.

Cardinal

good, so why you are silent ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Cardinal He's on vibration.

Cardinal

hello bro

:D

:v

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You just doubled the number of smileys in the room.

Cardinal

vibration was very funny !

user116848

16:23

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No, no need. We have been over this already.

user116848

I am okay here.

Cardinal

Arrow, what do you do ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arrowfar I mean, he keeps talking to himself in the other room.

But yeah, you guys can't just be talk to each other like adults. :\

user116848

@Cardinal I work in finance. And you?

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I know :)

Cardinal

16:25

I am an prospective student. Currently pursuing M.sC in engineering

user116848

Ahh very nice.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nice!

Have you heard about engineering.SE?

Cardinal

SE ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You have.

Cardinal

sounds weird ? what do you mean ?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:26

@Cardinal It's the typical acronym for StackExchange.

Cardinal

Nop, I am active in math.SE

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm active in well, my profile says where.

Cardinal

in well :D

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Someone in Tavern told me to make my own room and invite others (friends etc. who are interested in ELL and chatting)

user116848

But I think this room is good enough for that purpose.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:29

I don't think ELL is that big for three rooms.

Cardinal

for what purpose ? :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Cardinal In big sites, people create chatrooms and say that they're active in particularly those.

It works for chat regs.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yeah that's what I thought. I like one room concept.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Like for example, Shadow Wizard has his Den.

BTW regs = regulars.

Cardinal

Mother of abridges !

have a good time, bros

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:31

Cya later!

user116848

See you @Cardinal!

user116848

Nice talking!

Cardinal

danke !

danke is thank you !

in germany :D

user116848

Danke!

user116848

@Cardinal Yeah "Thanks" auf Deutsch.

user116848

16:32

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Tanks.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I talked to some friends and invited them here (in this room) but they all said "What? For English? I think I'll pass". Argh. Not many people find this fun I reckon.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yeah.

The same goes for me.

user116848

They said "What are you doing talking with strangers?". I told them "That's what appealing for me!"

user116848

I mean people from around the globe are here.

user116848

16:42

What's more fun than that?

user116848

To each his own I guess.

user116848

19:19

I came across this word: Highbrow

user116848

> Someone highbrow is highly cultured and sophisticated. You can call such a person a highbrow

user116848

> Anything highbrow is usually intellectual in nature, and people who appreciate such things are also called highbrows. Highbrows usually have money and are sometimes considered snobby or hoity-toity. The opposite of highbrow is lowbrow, which refers to vulgar and less sophisticated culture and people.

user116848

I hate hoity-toity though.

user116848

19:42

4

Q: What's a word for the ability to discern another's mental state?

I want to avoid some common implications of empathy: that it's mostly involuntary, and that it involves some re-experiencing of the other's feelings. I'm looking for a more general word (or, less ideally, short phrase) that could easily apply both to someone empathetic and to Hannibal Lecter. On...

single-word-requests

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20:03

@Arrowfar God.

tchrist

20:37

Has JR been around today?

Damkerng T.

@tchrist I haven't seen him for a big while.

tchrist

Hm, ok. Thanks.

Damkerng T.

Welcome!

tchrist

Thanks. I just dropped by to chat him up a bit, but if he’s scarce I need to do the week’s grocery shopping. :)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Catija

21:10

0

A: What is the difference between “nope” and “no”?

Some words that we hear give us extra information about how the speaker is organising their conversation. For example when we say So, XYZ, the word so often explains that the speaker is returning to an old topic of conversation. They want to talk about some topic that was mentioned earlier in th...

Wow... almost 200 comments? Is that necessary?

jimsug

23:11

@Catija Nope ;)

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