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12:25 AM
All, I am going to let this bounty expire. Mike's answer was good but it wasn't quite there, and nobody picked up some of the points I made into a canonical answer, including him. (I also want to see a bit more sportsmanship from Mike before stretching the boundaries of a bounty-worthy answer.) It expires in an hour and I have to go out now.
 
@Verbeia seems reasonable. That's a difficult question. I certainly don't have a good answer for it.
 
Me neither. But it's a pity to let the rep points fly away
 
Oh well.
 
@JM Well deleted!
I was getting bored of those questions
 
@belisarius I'm not terribly fond of task questions, I'd say. Though, if any of you guys have any ideas for redeeming it, well...
 
12:32 AM
@rcollyer wow, that's a pretty desperate thermit reaction! The method used to ignite it is quite extreme, though if it works, it works, I suppose...
 
@JM I was trying with his previous Q
I don_t remember if it was here or in SO
But after a while it was obvious his problem was not with Mma, but with math ... or physics
 
@belisarius what was it that was deleted?
 
@belisarius oh, okay, sorry; slow on the uptake here (a few too many beers tonight). Definitely agreed with that deletion.
 
@OleksandrR The important thing is ... What kind of beer?
 
12:37 AM
@OleksandrR Eh, you have beer. That counts for something...
That's quite a lot of awards...
 
@OleksandrR That site is infected with a virus
@OleksandrR 22/6/12 9:39:14 PM Filtro HTTP archivo moorbeer.co.uk/our-beer/revival HTML/ScrInject.B.Gen virus conexión finalizada - puesto en Cuarentena OSCAR_IBMR61\Oscar Se ha detectado una amenaza accediendo a un sitio de Internet a través de esta aplicación: C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe.
 
@belisarius surprised to hear that. I don't see anything. I'll delete the link.
 
@OleksandrR yep
better
 
@belisarius huh? what detected that virus?
 
Bah, can't delete it. J.M.?
 
12:40 AM
@JM ESET
 
Done, but IIRC ESET has a lot more false positives than usual...
 
@JM thanks. Sounds like the website might have been hijacked.
 
@JM I use it enterprise-wide. It is almost always right if you configure it well
 
I suppose "almost" leaves sufficient wiggle room... :)
 
@JM But you are right. When in paranoid mode it detects halitosis as virus
 
12:44 AM
@belisarius haha. I confess I don't have any AV installed (yes, I am a naughty boy).
 
@OleksandrR you are sucidal
 
@belisarius my security configuration is tightened considerably. In 20 years I never got infected.
 
@OleksandrR hehe or you never noticed ;p
 
@belisarius I have ClamAV :P
 
@OleksandrR It is quite good
 
12:49 AM
@OleksandrR I do believe that's one of those things you shouldn't be saying out loud in public, in the same vein as "hey I'm typing here in my underwear!!1!"...
 
@belisarius it's okay. Not the best, by far. But it didn't detect anything on my computer.
@JM you say that, but...
 
@JM hey I'm typing here in my underwear!!
 
*facepalm*
 
(Okay, well, actually I am fully clothed. But personally I don't care if people are on mathematica.SE. in their underwear :))
 
This is a list of notable antivirus software in the form of a comparison table. Most antiviruses consist of features like antiphishing or modes. Lots are just simple protection. However, most use behavioral blocking rather than virus signatures. Comparison {| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size: 85%; text-align: center; width: auto;" |- ! Software ! Windows ! Mac OS X ! Linux ! FreeBSD ! Unix ! License ! On-demand scan ! On-access scan ! Boot-time scans ! Blocks over 80% of zero day threats thoroughly (by Av-test.org) ! Has advanced features (includes antiphishing and web based pr...
@OleksandrR look at these three columns
 
12:53 AM
@belisarius Which three?
 
Trying to copy text
 
@belisarius this table gives a good review to Symantec/Norton and McAfee. I have had more problems running those on office computers than nothing on my own computer. I don't trust it!
 
@OleksandrR Norton has gotten worse over the years...
 
@JM Last I used Norton was in 2003, and it was horrific then. If it got worse since then... well, I'm staying well clear.
 
@OleksandrR Well, it was pretty damn good in the late '90s, but after that... yuck.
When friends of mine buy new laptops with Windows, one of the things I do for them is to get rid of the bundled Norton...
 
1:01 AM
@JM I used Norton for DOS in 1990. That was the last time.
2
 
@OleksandrR Yep. Norton sucks
 
@JM Incidentally that was also the last time I encountered a virus in the wild. (A boot sector virus too!)
 
Nasty buggers.
Nowadays, nobody vandalizes computers anymore. Stealing data's the cool thing. Ah, old times...
 
@JM my advice would be, format the hard disk straight away...
@JM Stealing data, yeah. I understand Facebook and Google pretty much cornered that market, though? ;)
 
@JM the very existence of virus is a shame on OS's developers
 
1:04 AM
@OleksandrR Heh. I haven't had to yet, except in a few cases where the user really couldn't be persuaded to not click on shiny things on the Internet.
 
@JM No, didn't mean for a virus (you can just restore from a backup, right?) but rather for all the shovelware installed on any new PC
 
@OleksandrR Oh, those. Thankfully, they seem to be easier to get rid of lately.
 
google vs oracle
 
@belisarius I am not suggesting infringing people's privacy is not lucrative. Just immoral. :)
 
pretty nice data stealing
 
1:10 AM
@OleksandrR In a few cases, they got themselves rootkits too, for some reason. o_O
 
I wonder what may happen if GMail get infected someday
 
@belisarius That would be a most interesting day...
 
we probably will go back to the bronze age
 
@JM Probably will not matter. Google is after all an advertising company. They surely scrape every email for keywords and sell to the highest bidder. (I do not use gmail, or ymail for that matter; my real email address is with an ISP, not an ad company.)
 
1:14 AM
Makes for an interesting cartoon idea. You have cavemen, but upon closer inspection you see that their tools were fashioned from recycled electronics...
 
Yeah, that one's traditional. I was just thinking of an idea for a funny cartoon.
 
Now that's one messed-up Garfield...
 
@JM I love SMBC. Truly it's the best webcomic out there.
 
1:29 AM
It doesn't always make me laugh, but when it hits, it hits hard.
 
2:26 AM
@JM Oops, I just realised I said I used Norton for the last time in two different years. I meant I used NAV on my own PC in 1990 and SAV on an office PC in 2003. :)
 
PIcture
is lol
@OleksandrR I have used antivirus for last 10 years
 
@JM I read a review that showed that SAV slowed down disk access by 1800x on average. I can believe it; horrible performance is why I never installed it on my own PC post-1990.
 
Worst performance hit
you can get is from Encryption software
 
@newprint 15 years ago I did use antivirus software. After 5 years of never encountering any viruses, I decided there was no point in it.
 
@newprint Sure, but the performance hit is at least justifiable there. A good portion of the AVs these days are bloated, it seems.
 
2:32 AM
I recently held job in big US health insurance company
they gave me a laptop
brand new lenovo
with PointSec Encryption
that thing ran so slow
I felt like i worked on some old junky laptop
 
@newprint with modern processors that have AES instructions built in, the performance hit isn't /that/ bad. Maybe 50% or so.
 
@OleksandrR Well, you know what they say... you don't need to wear a condom if you're not sleeping around. :)
 
@OleksandrR I did the same thing, I haven't had any viruses in last 5 years
 
@newprint Are you sure it was the encryption? Lenovo bundles a good amount of other junk, too.
 
I am actually working on Lenovo right now, it is my own ....... you mean ThinkVantage stuff ....... yea that crap
 
2:38 AM
@JM that one boot sector virus was really the only virus I ever came across in the wild. After using MSAV, then NAV, then F-PROT, I eventually just gave up running AV altogether. Mind you, I think I was probably one of the early adopters of firewalls for Internet access, back in the dial-up days, which may have helped back then.
 
@OleksandrR I was using Sygate up until they were bought by Norton. That was apart from router-tweaking...
 
Do you know that owner or Norton Antivirus
was recently help at gun point by some guerillas
for ransom
 
@JM Years ago I was using ConSeal, later bought out by McAfee, after which I switched to Deerfield. Both decent products; quite similar really. But nowadays Windows firewall is good enough.
 
he lived on some island (I think)
 
@OleksandrR Bah, look at us. We're basically proclaiming that we're old farts. :D
 
2:48 AM
Are you all guys in US ?
or some other parts of the world ?
 
@newprint Nope. It's morning here, for instance...
 
@JM Ironic really as I'm not actually all that old (don't know about you). But it seems if you don't change the way you do everything regarding computers and software every 5 years, then you're basically a philistine and living in the past. Well, I like things as they were 5-10 years ago, thanks very much. :)
@newprint I'm not in the US either. Morning here too. (For certain values of "morning".)
 
@OleksandrR I do like my inertia... :)
 
I am in US, though I am not American(russian)
 
Argentina
 
2:50 AM
@OleksandrR Still, the 90s doesn't sound that long a time ago to us...
 
@JM It doesn't, but it's almost scary to say it.
 
@Rojo it seems like there a lot of Argentinians around here
 
@newprint I've only seen belisarius and Rojo; dunno about the others.
 
belisarius is also Argentianian
 
I'm Argentinian, Brazilian and Portuguese
I live in Argentina, and lived here all my life, but was born in Brazil
 
2:55 AM
I actually want to visit brazil
Since I moved into US 15 years ago
 
Nice
Went twice this year :)
 
I haven't traveled anywhere
and the only reason I want to go to brazil are several places
1) Some desert with lakes
2) Very interesting forest with very unusual plants (as far as I read, plants that grow there are from prehistoric types
3) Moon valley(if I am not mistaking) waterfall
*types = times
 
@newprint You know, you can undo your typos by pressing the up arrow key and editing, but only for a few seconds.
 
*old school
 
Anyway, a convenient thing for this interface...
 
3:09 AM
quick question
Is it good idea to use old book(2006-2007) to learn mathematica
at least basics
 
@newprint Well, most of the old stuff still applies.
 
I read several chapters, so far so good, I had no problems
 
But, you will need to look at docs as well and compare.
 
@JM I like that about Mathematica. Nothing too radical in each new version, and plenty of time to change your habits. I only recently came to terms with OptionsPattern et al., for example.
 
@OleksandrR Me too. I'm still getting the hang of FilterOptions[] being supplanted by FilterRules[] myself.
Also took me a while to embrace the new Graphics[]/Graphics3D[] architecture, too.
 
3:26 AM
So far
doc are good
but I found that using things I learned from doc rather hard
 
@newprint Takes a fair bit of practice. And making some mistakes along the way...
 
it does
 
You'll come around, I think. :)
 
@JM Here's an interesting webcomic: Garfield minus Garfield. Which just has John in it (Garfield and Odie have been erased), and you realize he's going slowly insane. Best part: Jim Davis thinks its hysterical.
 
@rcollyer Oh yeah. I loved those. Didn't know about Jim finding them funny, too, though.
 
3:33 AM
@JM Makes it harder to sue him for copyright violations. :)
@newprint Actually, the docs in the most recent versions are not what they were pre-version 6. Those had thorough, interesting, and complex examples. In addition, they were interconnected more thoroughly than even v.8. Truthfully, they've improved since v.6, but the docs in v.6 were atrocious.
At the 2008 APS March Meeting we pigeon holed Eric Weisstein and complained about the docs. Apparently, it worked, sort of. :P
 
I think mathematica has best docs I have ever seen
 
Overall, they're very good; they're just not what they were ...
 
@rcollyer "sort of" - :D
 
docs are "product" of mathematica output
rarely any software can do that !!!!!
another cool thing I found
 
@JM they improved the interconnectivity of them by several orders of magnitude since then. They're just kind of bare still.
 
3:37 AM
is Mathematica World (I think) on
 
@newprint yeah, that is awesome.
 
that has explanation of different mathematical terms & theorems
 
@rcollyer I still miss the tree system of version five, though. Sometimes I just like to browse...
 
you can download the notebook and get the same results !!!!!
 
@JM exactly. That is where I learned the most. You can do it sort of in v.8, but not to the same extent.
@newprint it is. There are places I would wish it were more extensive, though.
 
3:40 AM
well, if they would make a Wiki type of site for mathematica docs, users could go in and correct/add information
and considering the fact that mathematica is used primarily by "Smart" users
 
I'd still want some level of vetting of the info, though.
 
Several years ago, I read there was a Wiki type site that suppose to provide "verified " mathematical theorems/proof. Never seen it.
 
@rcollyer A curator is a must, yes.
@newprint You mean ProofWiki?
 
I don't know, possibly
 
@newprint There's also scholarpedia.
 
3:44 AM
ye, I think you right
it is ProofWiki
is it any good ?
I am afraid it will be rather "dry" in terms of explanation .... pure mathematics
 
It can be that way.
 
Some people take Gauss's words to heart...
 
@JM ??
 
@newprint "No self-respecting architect leaves the scaffolding in place after completing the building" - C.F. Gauss
 
I hold degree in Architecture ))))))
 
3:47 AM
@JM Which is a horrible way to write about mathematics.
 
@rcollyer Agreed, but there we have a pervasive culture...
 
My modern algebra professor held that a proof without words is merely symbols on a page devoid of life and meaning.
To me, a proof can be like poetry.
 
Hello Vitaliy. A bit late there, no?
 
hey hey 11 pm
what is it at your place?
 
@VitaliyKaurov Almost antipodal then. It's about time for lunch here.
 
3:58 AM
Привет, Крылов !!!!
it is 12 @ night, US
 
4:39 AM
(yawn)
(very early here)
Looks like we'll get a blog very soon. WordPress account details should be mailed to me soon, then I can add those of you who are interested in contributing.
4
 
@Szabolcs Delightful!
 
Google has a turing machine :-)
 
I was playing with it a few hours ago... :)
 
it's awfully hot here, impossible to sleep :( living on the top floor of a badly insulated typical Maltese flat roof building doesn't help
 
No fan?
 
4:51 AM
yes. there's a fan
I think I'll try to sleep a bit more ...
I wonder how you guys manage there, it must be even hotter
 
@Szabolcs I just grin and bear it. :)
It's noon, and the pavement will likely cook an egg within minutes.
My fans consume way more electricity than all my other devices combined.
 
@Szabolcs I never understood why Turing was never recognized for doing another great service - breaking Enigma machine
 
Can you sleep with a fan on ... ? I always wake up with a dry throat.
He's also famous for his work in pattern formation (reaction-diffusion systems)
 
this act alone is as greater of importance as Vday
I am taking course on Theory of Automata right now
and out final project is to write Turing machine
 
@Szabolcs I manage.
Though sometimes even the fans don't help. Even the air blowing out of them is hot.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:43 AM
We are tantalisingly close to hitting the 15 q/day mark that gets us another green on Area 51. Also quite close to the 1500 visits/day. Tell all your friends!
Hello @VitaliyKaurov
 
Gratings
How is it going?
greetings* ;-)
 
 
1 hour later…
8:55 AM
@IstvánZachar Several of the tagged questions were about performing an operation in Mathematica interactively, rather than programmatically. This is distinct from or but I'm not sure it merits a tag.
 
Hi, I just went over to Area 51 and saw that we are a bid low on visits and answer ratio. My question: How are visits counted? Very time I log in or ...
 
9:18 AM
@MrWizard Yes, I've realized that afterwards, but did not have a fully fledged description in my mind to add it to the tag wiki. This problem is general: often when a new tag appears without a clear cut wiki, I have a hard time understanding the relation between tag and question.
 
9:31 AM
1
Q: What happens to tagging after graduation?

István ZacharRecently I am trying hard to organize and improve tags, and it came to my mind: is any effort worthwhile for e.g. removing the occasionally introduced nonsensical ones? Would tagging be restricted after graduation? Will the set of tags that we establish up to graduation be the standard set and no...

 
 
5 hours later…
2:41 PM
Hi guys,
I think I have found bug in Mathematica 8.
...a bug...
 
@MatsGranvik Got a demo?
 
Yes, but I am not sure if I have done the Mathematics correct.
 
If it's a bit long, you can post on main; but I'll hold off using the tag until other people can reproduce this behavior you speak of.
 
R.M
I take a vacation for a week and we have GREAT news! Looks like I should take vacations more often =)
congratulations to everyone that participated and made this possible
 
@RM Where'd you go for vacation?
 
R.M
2:54 PM
Zion NP & Bryce Canyon NP
Absoulutely gorgeous
 
I'll have to make it out there someday (when the littlest one is less likely to just go running off a cliff.)
 
R.M
There are stroller friendly and gentle trails on Zion
A lot of the trails on Bryce are a bit strenuous, but you can go on a scenic drive through the park and it's definitely worth it
(we had 2 little kids in the group I went with, and it all worked out fine)
 
@RM Damn, now I'm jealous...
(picture made it worse. :P :) )
 
R.M
:D
 
3:35 PM
Does anyone know what yiology is? It's the subject of the newest proposal on area51.
 
Interesting, but I don't see how it can become a productive SE site topic...
 
 
2 hours later…
5:44 PM
@JM Neither do I, but you'll never know. Some people initially thought Mathematica wasn't going to be viable either.
 
@Heike The subject is a tad softer then Mathematica, though, so things may be harder. Hell, if that sex questions SE folded...
 
5:58 PM
@JM So basically you're saying that sex.SE folded because of the softness of the subject? I think you've got a point there.
 
The parenting site is actually a miracle, I think.
 
6:15 PM
I hadn't noticed the Turing themed google doodle yet. It's actually quite nice.
 
 
3 hours later…
9:42 PM
Personal manufacturing beta is closing (never made it out of private beta) but what is more interesting is what Robert Cartaino said on their meta (thanks Stackmobile)
I want to push this proposal back through Area 51. This is not busy work nor a waste of time. We relaunched Mathematica in this fashion, and after an equally lackluster proposal, they regrouped and — here's the kicker — the community rallied back in a record-breaking 28 days and launched our most successful proposal/beta in our history!

With the concentration of users here, you should have no problem spring-boarding this proposal well into commitment. There are folks out there who lament missing the launch the first time around. It simply took too long to launch. It's a great subject, but
 
9:59 PM
Sorry RM I missed that. I was on another page on my iPad
Should we migrate this question? stackoverflow.com/q/11097488/758485
 
@Verbeia Yay us, but I feel sorry for the guys of Personal manufacturing. Does this mean they'll have to go through the whole process of gathering enough committers again?
 
@Heike If you go onto stackmobile and read the rest of his post, he blames the Area 51 process for the whole debacle. I think they are hoping to get it revamped soon so the commitment process is less painful for new proposals tha actually have merit.
Four of the questions on the first page of hottest questions are currently from Mma.SE!
 
@Verbeia And only one of them is a rtfm question.
 
R.M
10:19 PM
@Verbeia Oh, it wasn't much... just beating the victory drum. I deleted because I have to run now and couldn't stick around for a conversation
 

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