Another addition to the annals of how not to craft questions: math.stackexchange.com/q/3617284/29335

@rschwieb Closed, two downvotes.

@rschwieb Open for deletion.

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@user21820 For the record, due to the censorhip of amWhy I am no longer participating in this room

@user21820 See Trash: messages moved there make it pretty transparent. @Bill Good-bye. I respect your choice not to participate here.

@amWhy: Thanks for the notice. @quid: Please step in and voice your opinion if you think anyone is out of line. Especially what I am going to say next.

@user21820 here I am. :-)

As co-owner of this room, I wish to see this room have a good atmosphere. For that reason, I think off-topic conversations that grow too long should be moved elsewhere. I propose that they are moved to Sandbox by default, especially if they are written to imply any judgement on other users. Outright hostility and spam should of course still go to Trash.

@quid @amWhy @XanderHenderson @rschwieb @RRL @MartinSleziak: What do you all think?

@user21820 That is fine by me, @quid! I didn't even know about a Sandbox Chatroom. Sounds like a good middle ground for such matters.

Personally I would not move to sandbox as I always thought it was a room to use,

@quid Yes I understand that it was created for testing chat features, but we do not have a dedicated "random box chat-room" and that is the closest room I found that does not have the same severely negative connotation as "Trash".

if off-topic content is a concern and "trash" seems to aggressive one might even start a separate room like "CRUDE off-topic comments" maybe you'll draw a following given the intersting title.

@quid That is a viable option, too!

Or just create "no longer needed" or something which could be multi room.

Sure, but I think it should be for all chat-rooms, not just CRUDE. You can create a dedicated "Off-topic" chat-room for us.

I'm afraid that if we create one ourselves, it will be frozen in a short time because there aren't really many comments that need to be moved there.

Maybe "no longer needed"

Sure. If you create it, will it stay open indefinitely?

or "Overflow" if it doe not exists already.

@user21820 no

=(

@quid Or "strays"? (Or "mutts"?)

I wonder whether it's worth the effort to keep such a chat-room alive. How do Sandbox and Trash stay alive?

@amWhy No the chat-room must have a neutral name.

@user21820 there is enough 'trash'?

I'm... surprised... if that is how it works...

Seems like a trashcan that can get frozen is not a very good 'feature'!

How about naming the new room "More Chat"? @amWhy @quid

I want to make it as 'painless' as possible whenever messages are moved there.

That's my hope, at least.

It should maybe still be clear from the name that it's not an actual room.

@quid Why not? Does it matter if some actually want to chat in there?

Maybe "Archive" or 'Archive for math.se chat rooms' or something like this.

@user21820 no it does not matter but it might confuse people to join for no good reason.

We could say something in the room description, like "If things get too chatty in your room, feel free to move it here!"...

Who knows, chatty people might populate the room and keep it alive. =P

@quid I am just concerned that if the new room has a name that suggests it is meant for putting a conversation out, moving messages there will often be misconstrued as censorship, which is the problem here. I am guessing that if it is a free chat-room, people will be more happy to continue there.

Many times when we owners move something, we are accused of censorship. I do not like that.

@user21820 The issue to which you are responding is not about a person being too chatty. It is about a person trying to provoke connections of users on Math.se, and the operating systems they use, with some political categorization that is *entirely off-topic on math.se.

@amWhy I know. That is why I added the "especially ..." clause in my proposal. I am simply trying to reduce the number of incidents with users feeling "censored".

@user21820 That's going to be impossible to do with this specific user, IMHO. If a person provokes other users in a manner that is not at all on-topic, or swears, or is rude, and you want to ban appropriately moving such comments to Trash, to "spare those users' feelings of censorship", I ask you to consider the other users' feeling of offense, indignation, annoyance?? Please, consider the source.

The easier it is to move off-topic messages without being accused of censorship, the more we can move them off.

Swearing and rudeness should of course go straight to Trash.

@user21820 I don't completely understand your need to soothe one user's grumblings. And I think I can definitely state, that across chat rooms, you've moved more messages to trash than any owner of this chat, across chat rooms. Why you have such fondness for one user over all others, I'll never know. Just be consistent, and don't treat this one user with kid gloves, when you never do so with anyone else.

@amWhy I am consistent. I move spam and outright hostility to Trash. In the past, I also moved off-topic comments to Trash, but after discovering Sandbox I decided to try using that, and in my experience I faced less resistance.

That's all. If you or anyone has a better alternative proposal, please share it.

Don't forget that I too have moved this user's messages to Trash before, and it's not true that I have any fondness or partiality for any user.

I just don't like accusations of censorship when there is none. Accusations tend to cause flame wars, and I seek to prevent that without removing the right that we owners should have in keeping the room clean.

@user21820 That's fine. But don't criticize others for doing what you've always done. And don't intervene on behalf of one user's appeal to you, in a matter based on my decision to move what I take to be an offensive conjecture to Trash. Incessant appeals to "Free Speech!" by the author of an offensive conjecture is pure click-bait.

But of course, my proposal may be flawed.

@amWhy I did not respond to any appeal. You can check my statement in Trash.

I don't think the name of the room will change a lot. Maybe "trash" is more stingy, but ultimately some users will take offense at being told to go elsewhere.

You can always move it to my room (maybe I'll regret that...) Tell people I am really bored and keen on "whatever"

@quid If that is really the case, then it's too bad. I will take you up on your offer to move it to your room! Sounds good! Other room owners feel free to continue moving messages wherever they wish; I'm just bringing this up for consideration.

@quid @amWhy: If any of you feel any part of the above conversation should be moved anywhere, feel free to do so as well. Thank you!

(I didn't mean to criticize anyone, by the way. And believe me that I am myself offended by political insinuations.)

Also, refrain from bringing up sensitive issues in this chat-room, such as so-called 'politics of Math SE'.

Those issues belong to Math Meta.

I support room owners who decide to move such messages elsewhere.

@user21820 I think your efforts to bring this up for consideration has been well worth the effort! Every chatroom needs some "meta-chatroom" considerations... :-)

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@amWhy "Choosing not to participate" eh. Let's see how long it lasts.

@rschwieb ;-)

@rschwieb Not long, since this misunderstanding was cleared up in another room.