The Velodrome

Andy P

10:24

So here's a controversial topic triggered by a discussion I was having on a cycling related discord.

Governments are forcing food manufacturers to make foods healthier and lower kcal. They impose things like sugar tax on fizzy drinks.
And yet we have an abundance of smart devices (apple watch for example) and online 'calculators' that give a gross overestimate of calorie burn during exercise.

I'd argue that a watch telling it's user they burnt 700kcal more than they actually did is far more destructive for weight/health management than an extra 50kcal from a very sugary drink

Erlkoenig

10:49

Perhaps the calculator assumes American serving sizes (1 cup = 1 litre). The calories of drinks should be pretty easy to calculate since they're literally printed on the bottle??

Andy P

Problem with the calculators is they make huge assumptions about aerodynamics and rolling resistance.
The one this guy was using told me I would burn 1250kcal for a 2 hour ride at 25km/h - which might be true if i'm riding my MTB on the road.
On the other hand if i'm riding a road bike in well fitting clothing the true value is probably more like 700kcal.
So for someone attempting to use exercise as part of a weight loss plan, that difference is enough to not only wipe out their losses, but actually put them in surplus and gaining weight

Erlkoenig

Did that calculator take HR into account?

Andy P

nope. ones using HR are even more stupid

Erlkoenig

Why is that?

Andy P

because power is power irrelevant of heart rate.
lets say 3 riders of identical size go for a ride together on identical equipment.
they ride at a power output of 100W.
First rider is a world tour pro who has an average heart rate of 90bpm
Second rider is a weekend warrior who has an average heart rate of 120bpm
Third rider is a beginner who has an average heart rate of 150bpm.
Huge difference in heart rate, but they basically all burnt the same number of kcals

Erlkoenig

11:03

Hmm, interesting. Perhaps you could calibrate the app using an ergometer so you don't have to buy a power meter

Whenever people talk about healthy lifestyle I mention that my blood pressure is (slightly) too low to make them mad 👹

Andy P

Yes, within reason thats the best solution. Intervals icu does something similar to calculate training load. it evaluates your relationship between power/hr on your rides that have power available. and then uses that to estimate power on rides without a power meter.

Erlkoenig

Hmm, wouldn't hill climbing be a good estimate for power? Since it mostly depends on weight which is easy to measure

Andy P

@Erlkoenig Absolutely, but not many people go on 2 hour endurance rides that are only uphill :D

Mithical

@AndyP I do an hour and a half uphill not infrequently

Andy P

As long as you don't have crazy outlying position or equipment then riding a course thats a full loop (to cancel wind) will allow strava to produce to produce a semi reasonable estimate. Certainly a lot closer than the 70% error in some of these calculators

Erlkoenig

11:11

My parents have an indoor bike but it doesn't display power! Why???

Michael

@Erlkoenig because it would have to measure it?

Andy P

Because they bought a terrible indoor bike

Michael

power meter costs 400–1000€

Erlkoenig

@Michael Yeah but what good does an indoor bike do without a power meter...

Michael

just go by feeling?

what good does an outdoor bike (for training) do without a power meter?

Erlkoenig

11:13

@Michael Even if it can be integrated in the braking system?

Michael

it often can’t, unless you use a generator as brake

Andy P

for a recreational/fitness user you can train just fine without power. you can user RPE + HR.
But i'd never actually advise purchasing a solution that doesnt have power measurement in some form

Erlkoenig

A local technology museum has an ergometer hooked up to a big display to demonstrate how much power you need for a TV, radio, toaster etc. That thing is way off, there's no way I can produce 1.5kW just like that in a terrible position 🤣

Andy P

you guys might have seen this already, but its a classic so i'll repost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ

Erlkoenig

But it also has a big display hailing the glory of open lignite mining in West Germany. Yeah.

@AndyP That mountain of muscle in that suit is 😈

Andy P

11:21

Indeed. He probably climbed like a brick though :D

Erlkoenig

To climb the mountain, you have to become the mountain.

Andy P

Semi related, i actually did a 20 second power PB the other day. Could have powered that toaster for ~22-23 seconds!

Erlkoenig

Not having any kind of power meter = blissful ignorance 🤣

Andy P

haha, yeah. Especially when you are as light as me it only ever tells you how weak you are :P

Erlkoenig

Rode up a hill on my gravel bike behind some roadie on a 90ies steel road bike. He was grinding and struggling in his lowest gear and I was like "what a beautiful day to use the 42t" 😜

@AndyP Better than heavy and weak 🤣

Andy P

11:38

yeah, hats off to some of the bigger guys i've been on holidays with.
cranking out a full week of 3000m climbing days whilst weighing 90kg.
the muscular load and calorie burn to do that is insane

Erlkoenig

@AndyP Hope they were well fed 😅

Andy P

Feeding is sometimes a challenge on these trips.
Especially in the mountains sometimes you just need to stop wherever is available at approximately the right time.
I'll tell you from experience that smashing down a large pizza and then climbing up inside a steep gorge trapping the sun at 36C 30mins later is not an ideal combo

Or some of the places in france where a cheese toastie is 1% bread and 99% cheese - also not the most ideal riding food

Erlkoenig

12:25

@AndyP Interestingly I have little immediate issues with eating inappropriate/heavy/greasy food. On the next day however... A significant issue however are serving sizes - what you get in most places isn't enough for a big strong person...

Andy P

12:38

Serving sizes are definitely an issue - even for a smaller guy. If you pick an option that isnt super fatty it often has quite a small total kcals.
Like can I have the menu thats basically 1000kcal of carbs pls?!

Erlkoenig

12:52

Yeah... Pasta dishes are usually 80% cheese 😬

Michael

13:17

what? Pasta is usually 70% pasta and 25% cream or oil

way too few vegetables and way too little cheese usually

DavidW

@AndyP Almost 20 years ago now the (recreational) club I was riding with had most of the longer routes designed by a single guy. People complained they always knew his routes because less than 5 minutes from the coffee/lunch stop there'd be a climb.

Cue jokes about chasing your lunch up the hill...

(It wasn't his fault that all the nice towns were in valleys, and all the less-busy roads were up on the surrounding ridges/hills...)

Andy P

Few years back me + dad + beginner did a hilly training ride as part of preparation for a week long trip.
Dad and I had a small stack of pancakes with syrup, beginner had a large bacon and egg baguette (despite advice otherwise!).
10 mins after the stop we had the climb up to The Lecht ski station - a lesson was learned that day 🤣

Erlkoenig

The baguette wouldn't bother me... Just perhaps the lack of carbs

Might have an opportunity to ride with my parents soon first time in a long time. Cue stern talk about descending skills 😬

Andy P

13:34

I'm lucky that dad lives quite close by so I get to ride with him quite regularly.
Although he recently changed tyres to GP5000's which has made keeping up on my MTB somewhat challenging 🥵

Erlkoenig

Oops! I'll change my G-One Allround 40mm to Pro-One 30mm and see what happens 😅

Andy P

16:39

Well that REALLY didnt go as expected.
Been focussing on basic endurance rides.
Did fitness test and set new PB's for everything under <= 5 mins

Andy P

19:53

And a few hours later I can report that legs are totally ruined 🥴

Erlkoenig

21:26

Ruined them in just 5min?

Andy P

21:52

its 4 tests in 1.
5s sprint, 5m max, 20min max, 1 min max

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