The Whiteboard

12:00 AM

@HotelCalifornia 100% of murderers had trace levels of dihydrogen monoxide in their body at the time of murder. #notevenonce

AaronLS

Only trace levels?

sounds like they died of dehydration

Ampt

if you can trace it, it's a level

AaronLS

Depends on the field you work in, a "trace level" is sometimes defined as a specific range of concention in terms of ppm

concentration*

Ampt

pressing up on the keyboard allows you to edit your last message

AaronLS

So when you say "trace level" I just thought it was funny combination there, basically saying "they were almost dried up" :)

psr

12:17 AM

@HotelCalifornia To bad that you can never leave.

AaronLS

That aspect of the song never sat well with me as a kid.

What's a term/phrase that describes the process of doing rough prioritizing of tasks/goals. I.e. not a strict ordering, but instead just putting them in buckets of "soon, later, never"?

user20683

@AaronLS Eisenhower mapping

user20683

cdn.makeuseof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/…

AaronLS

@WorldEngineer I like that graph. Looks like a concept from "Getting Things Done". Brainstorming for something a little more lay business person friendly though.

user20683

@AaronLS It's most widely known from Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People but I'm sure the concept well predates him.

user20683

12:26 AM

If I had to wager a guess, it'd be at least as old as the efficiency movements of the early 1900s

user20683

@GlenH7 @RobertHarvey in python that same behavior is also a one liner: assuming a list (or array or whatever, all you need is an iterable) of strings:

result = [int(x) for x in iterable]

HotelCalifornia

@psr ahahaha.. haven't heard that one before

user114359

2:18 AM

If anyone is out there, I just VTC'd a ton of old "career/resume advice" questions. Check out the review queue and have at it, Hoss.

Duga

4:10 AM

Maybe at programmers.stackexchange.com ? — Klaus D. 1 min ago

Duga

4:30 AM

@KlausD. this question is a very poor fit for Programmers - it would be quickly voted down and closed over there, see What is the problem with “Pros and Cons”? Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 1 min ago

Duga

6:26 AM

Better if you could ask this under programmers. That is the place we can focus questions like this. — Jude Niroshan 46 secs ago

Jude Niroshan

6:40 AM

@Duga anything wrong with it?

feeling awkward when people gathering and talks about my statements

actually, nervous

ratchet freak

7:55 AM

@JudeNiroshan "best tool" is offtopic on programmers.SE actually

Duga is a bot that searches for comments directing people to programmers.SE erroneously by users that don't understand what is actually on topic here

it helps us to educate the SO users rather than having to take it out on the unsuspecting newby that followed the incorrect advice

I suggest reading the meta question that gnat mentioned in his quoted comment before advising anyone else to move a question to programmers

Duga

11:40 AM

This question would also get closed on Programmers.SE as a recommendation question (which is off topic there). You may wish to read Gorilla vs Shark to get a better idea as to why these questions don't work well in the Stack Exchange format. — MichaelT 1 min ago

Thomas Owens

11:53 AM

Another reason why type erasure is bad:

public class Test {
	interface TestInterface<T> {
		public T get();

		public void set(T obj);
	}

	class TestClass implements TestInterface<String>, TestInterface<Integer> {
		// The interface TestInterface cannot be implemented more than once
		// with different arguments
	}
}

Although Project Valhalla looks interesting...

ratchet freak

12:20 PM

technically java could do full C++-style generics without class file bloat

you would need to modify the class loader to replace the generic parameters if a generic class gets instansiated but that is not a big deal TBH

Thomas Owens

@ratchetfreak Yeah. It looks like if some of the generics work happens in Project Valhalla, it will be more advanced. Like primitive types in generics, too. No more ArrayList<Integer> when I just need an ArrayList<int>.

ratchet freak

Key would be a classloader that has an overriden findClass that detects if the class to look for is a instanced generic class and then reads the base class and does a s/genericParam/Type/ in the class file

the one issue I still see is generic methods

durron597

1:06 PM

I see someone attacked the resume tag

durron597

1:21 PM

@ThomasOwens I think this field is much stronger than last years do you agree?

Thomas Owens

@durron597 All the past elections blend together.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Last year the only person I cared about voting for was Bohemian

Thomas Owens

But the past couple of elections, it's been hard for me to vote for SO mods because I couldn't vote for everyone that I thought would be good.

durron597

I gave meagar my #2 vote and I'm almost certainly not going to vote for him again

I think Martijn and Second Rikudo are slam dunks and I'm trying to decide whether to vote for you with my third or not

Thomas Owens

@durron597 ಠ_ಠ

durron597

1:24 PM

that's less about a change of opinion on Matt and more about how strong this field is (including you!)

Thomas Owens

I know. I think we get three votes still, right?

It's going to be hard. There's like 5 people I want to vote for.

durron597

@ThomasOwens After those two, I think Raghav Sood (because he's on the other side of the world - time zones matter), meagar, Jon Clements, Undo (Brad Larson's endorsement is compelling), and you would all do a great job

user41796

Anyone else seeing really slow load times for main sites?

user41796

chat appears fine. The one meta post I went to loaded up quickly

ratchet freak

must be you then

user41796

1:29 PM

Typical. :-)

user41796

Our ISP has been flaky lately

durron597

Wow. The Elections statistics page takes a really long time to load.

ratchet freak

@durron597 probably rate limited artificially

Thomas Owens

CDN is apparently timing out?

Telastyn

mine has been slow, chat too, but I'm on public wifi, which is not ideal.

user41796

1:39 PM

@ThomasOwens Yes, that what it seems like

Thomas Owens

I'm at work. Half the time it could be proxy issues.

ratchet freak

@ThomasOwens it's not in my corner of the world...

user41796

@ratchetfreak Maybe we should move closer to your corner of the world then. :-)

ratchet freak

@GlenH7 or tell the DDoSers to stop hitting the server in your corner of the world

user41796

Yeah, I've heard they listen to politely phrased requests like that. :-)

Thomas Owens

1:52 PM

I don't understand why I'm getting an ArrayStoreException if I'm putting classes X, Y, and Z that all extend A into an array of type A...unless for some reason, it thinks that the array is of type X and I'm trying to add Y to it. I'm pretty explicit about it being an array of type A, though.

user41796

@ThomasOwens code or it didn't happen?

Telastyn

arrays are the worst

user41796

The array is initialized, right? And you're able to put type X in there? How about type Z?

durron597

@GlenH7 Agreed, code or it didn't happen.

user41796

Noting that Thomas may not be able to sanitize it enough to make it postable

Thomas Owens

1:54 PM

I'm using this ArrayUtils to perform the concatenation.

That's where the exception is getting thrown.

On line 43.

I'm guessing that it takes type X extends A and Y extends A and is trying to make an array of type X, which isn't working.

I'm very explicit in my call, though. The method returns a type A and I'm even explicit in the method call: ArrayUtils.<A>concatAll(X[], Y[], Z[]).

I was hoping that by doing that, type T in ArrayUtils would be treated as an A and not an X.

user41796

Arrays.copyof is a system object?

Thomas Owens

Yeah.

You mean System.arraycopy(), I'm guessing?

durron597

Wait, line 43?

Thomas Owens

Arrays.copyOf() isn't a system object. It's a static method on the Arrays.

durron597

That's a byte[] array... right?

user41796

1:58 PM

line 40

user41796

@ThomasOwens close enough :-)

Thomas Owens

Oh. The gist is out of date.

durron597

These all look like primitives to me

Thomas Owens

Check now.

The exception is being throw on line 43.

I'm still thinking that the problem is that I pass in X[], Y[], and Z[] to concatAll(). Even though I'm invoking it as ArrayUtils.<A>concatAll(X[], Y[], Z[]), it's trying to take an array of X and an array of Z without treating them as As.

There's no reason why an A[] can't hold instances of X, Y, or Z.

Stack Exchange

Lambda the Ultimate - Programming Languages Weblog: Everything old is new again: Quoted Domain Specific Languages

posted on April 07, 2015

Everything old is new again: Quoted Domain Specific Languages, by Shayan Najd, Sam Lindley, Josef Svenningsson, Philip Wadler: We describe a new approach to domain specific languages (DSLs), called Quoted DSLs (QDSLs), that resurrects two old ideas: quotation, from McCarthy’s Lisp of 1960, and the subformula property, from Gentzen’s natural deduction of 1935. Quoted terms allow the DSL to sha…

ratchet freak

2:08 PM

it doesn't account for nulls in the rest cararg properly

the first for loop is fine the second not so much

Telastyn

oh right, that's why I should avoid academia.

Thomas Owens

@ratchetfreak What do you mean? Beside the fact that I know there aren't nulls in the array...

Oh. I see what you mean. But I don't think that's an issue. I should add that check, though.

user41796

@ThomasOwens Can you cast X, Y, and Z on the concat call? Something like: ArrayUtils.<A>concatAll((A)X[], (A)Y[], (A)Z[])

Thomas Owens

@GlenH7 You can't cast arrays like that.

25

Q: casting Object array to Integer array error

What's wrong with the following code? Object[] a = new Object[1]; Integer b=1; a[0]=b; Integer[] c = (Integer[]) a; The code has the following error at the last line : Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassCastException: [Ljava.lang.Object; cannot be cast to [Ljava.lang.Integer;

@ratchetfreak I added that check to the second loop, too. But that wasn't the problem.

user41796

Generics / templates like this aren't my strong point. But I think that under the covers the compiler creates explicit versions of each method based upon the possible types being passed to the method.

Telastyn

2:15 PM

I don't believe Java does that

others do

user41796

@Telastyn ah ok. I was about to say that if we looked in the byte code, we would see function signatures like the following

user41796

public static <A> A[] concatAll(A[] first, A[]... rest)
public static <X> X[] concatAll(X[] first, X[]... rest)
public static <Y> Y[] concatAll(Y[] first, Y[]... rest)
public static <Z> Z[] concatAll(Z[] first, Z[]... rest)

Thomas Owens

Yep. Just watched with a debugger.

Maybe I could try a dummy array of type A as the first param to concatAll.

Stack Exchange

Blog - Stack Exchange: Stack Overflow Developer Survey 2015: The Results

Sam Brand on April 07, 2015

Every year we ask our users to tell us a little about themselves. This year we asked our users to tell us a lot.

For 2 weeks in February 2015, we ran a 45 question survey. We asked where you live, what programming languages & frameworks you use, how much money you make, how much coffee you drink, and whether you prefer tabs or spaces when writing code. More than 26,000 of you responded, making this year’s survey quite possibly the most authoritative developer survey ever conducted.

A few findings: …

Thomas Owens

That worked.

I just called ArrayUtils.<A>concatAll(new A[0], X[], Y[], Z[]) and it worked. That's stupid.

durron597

2:20 PM

Right, of course

I was thinking you need to do like <? super T> or something

I couldn't figure out the exact syntax though

Thomas Owens

Tried that first. Got a warning.

Or an error, actually. Although I think I used the wrong syntax...I used "extends" and not "super". Let me try that first.

durron597

Arrays get very unhappy when you try to do stuff like this generally

Thomas Owens

ArrayUtils.<? super A>concatAll() gave a "wildcard not expected" error. I think what I did may be the only solution that actually compiles.

durron597

you can't have a generic array

that's why I try to always use lists when doing generics

Thomas Owens

Yeah. Except the interface expects an array. Stupid interface.

This is part of my solution to the fact that enums can't extend another enum.

durron597

2:23 PM

Well, you can use Lists until the last possible second

enderland

> Source control is an industry standard tool. However, fun fact: about 10% of developers still don't use it.

wat

user41796

@enderland Yep, you'd be surprised

user41796

especially with solo devs or very small teams that grew out of ad-hoc projects

enderland

@GlenH7 I guess that the SE survey doesn't really include a good "student vs professional" breakdown

but even when I was solo dev I used version control...

Thomas Owens

> I shoot lasers at stuffz 0.005%

I WANT THAT JOB.

Also, the industry list sucked hard.

enderland

2:31 PM

> And even if you work full-time, you probably code on the side. The average fully employed developer spends more than 6 hours every week working on open source, side- or hobby projects. Retired developers spend nearly 3 times as many hours on hobby projects. Code is life for most devs, and for many coding is a lifetime pursuit.

Thomas Owens

Aerospace employs a ton of software developers. Of those 20% total / 27% in the US, I wonder what percentage of those would have answered "Aerospace / Defense".

enderland

@ThomasOwens yeah I thought so too, it's amusing to me that my industry wasn't represented (which I know of a few folks here who are in a similar one)

Thomas Owens

@enderland Automotive is another big one that's not listed.

How would you self-describe your industry?

enderland

@ThomasOwens any manufacturing type of industry is not represented

@ThomasOwens Probably manufacturing? I guess, depends on how small of a bucket you choose

Thomas Owens

@enderland Manufacturing is broad. But I suppose it would work for me, too. We manufacture systems and one component is software.

enderland

2:35 PM

@ThomasOwens Yeah, there are a lot of software folks in nearly EVERY product you can buy that costs more than $100

Thomas Owens

Those systems just happen to be things on planes. Although there is a bucket for health and medicine, which would include medical device companies.

So some manufacturing is covered.

enderland

Yeah, just not the majority of them....

Thomas Owens

True.

enderland

things like point of sale systems, snowplows... :)

Thomas Owens

3:25 PM

When you realize that a UI is just another data-source and isn't any different than a flat file or a database or whatever...

ratchet freak

all coding is just tieing interfaces and APIs together

Steven Burnap

I used to write software for point of sale systems. Old, archaic things. I was maintaining code written in old 70's era C compiled for a Z80 processor board in 1999.

durron597

@ThomasOwens I noticed you're pretty close to electorate. You could probably get it today if you spend all your votes on questions. How far are you from Copy Editor?

svidgen

3:43 PM

Is it kosher if I ask about job titles here? ... in particular, if I've been asked whether I'm "happy" with my job title? ... and i'm not, because it's absurdly long and cryptic.

enderland

@svidgen sure

Thomas Owens

@durron597 On SO?

svidgen

ok. ... i am apparently a "platform and digital product integration architect" ... which, i suppose describes what i'll be doing. but, i'm hoping to put something much shorter and less "look at how awesome i am"-sounding on my cards (and when i introduce myself) while still communicating my role.

i'll basically be managing a small team + external firms to develops/improve a digital teaching platform, establish internal standards for individual products and components to integrate, and sort of coordinating the effort.

what would be short, sweet, and not-pompous sounding i can use to communicate that sort of role?

user41796

@svidgen In general, chat is much more open with respect to what can be asked.

svidgen

@GlenH7 understood. i just get the sense many folks here think the "what's my title" discussion is plain silly.

user41796

3:49 PM

@svidgen Technical Lead or Technical Supervisor are common.

user41796

@svidgen it is. But so is chat. :-)

svidgen

@GlenH7 Technical lead actually sounds perfect for introductions.

user41796

Some places use technical lead titles without supervisory responsibilities, but many use it to indicate they were a supervisor too

user41796

Just a bit of forewarning there if you're really worried about what all the title implies

svidgen

There are a few other aspects of my role that internal folks would care about that Tech. Lead doesn't quite encompass ... I wonder whether it's worthwhile to try condensing my "internal" title too.

user41796

3:52 PM

But given that many financial and insurance institutions will call senior developers "vice presidents" I'm back to "meh, titles are meaningless."

user41796

@svidgen For internal things, I've never worried about my title. Either my reputation preceded me or it didn't. Title never had any meaning there.

svidgen

@GlenH7 Sure. But, it's a decent-enough sized company that I'd rather have my title just communicate what I do ... maybe to the internal folks, the lengthy title will be sufficient though.

... and not-pompous sounding.

user41796

See if you can work a "Lord such-and-such" in there... :-D

svidgen

@GlenH7 That's an awesome idea.

Telastyn

ugh, this thing is the least discoverable thing I've worked with... in like at least a week

enderland

3:56 PM

My company has our names backwards, so it's "Last First" in a lot of our systems (dont even get me started...) but one guy's last name was Lord, so his name would show up as "Lord Firstname" in a lot of our systems. was pretty awesome :)

Thomas Owens

I'm changing my name.

Telastyn

and now I get to wait an hour for this simple query to finish?

Steven Burnap

My company has been having a long-standing passive-aggressive fight between groups in the bug tracking system about First Last vs Last First. Makes assigning bugs an adventure.

Telastyn

passive-aggressive sucks. Thunderdome for all.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Yeah, SO

@ThomasOwens I figure you can get that 33/40 to 35/40 pretty easily, assuming your Copy Editor is close

user41796

4:02 PM

@Telastyn Time for lunch!

Telastyn

@GlenH7 - alas, guest coworkers are in town and I need to be sociable.

mostly I get to sit and consider how hadoop people get anything done

and why we pay them so much

user41796

@Telastyn < insert obligatory "my code is compiling xkcd" />

Telastyn

indeed.

Ampt

@enderland Wait, you guys aren't all Lord? Peasants!

Telastyn

and now it just stalls. Maybe it got killed. Maybe it's processing. Maybe it got deprioritized. I don't know, I'm using a textbox in a webpage as my IDE.

/me shakes his fist at random things.

Ampt

4:11 PM

Blame devops

HotelCalifornia

how does SE run its chat things?

is it just HTTP request and response?

psr

@StackExchange @JimmyHoffa - This is using Haskell to generate C code. Just hack it to output C#, and code in Haskell. No one needs to know.

svidgen

If I ever commit suicide, supporting cross-browser audio is likely a factor.

... just so we have that on record.

Telastyn

I'm pretty sure that would be easily discoverable

svidgen

@Telastyn What are you developing in/against?

Telastyn

4:15 PM

at the moment, some hadoop query to find out how often our ads are clicked by people on the same subnet

except I don't know hadoop at all, so I'm fumbling around trying to learn

all so I can make more convincing arguments to prevent business people from doing braindead stupid things.

HotelCalifornia

it may be easily discoverable, but I was just wading through the page code and couldn't find any of the actual send/receive functions

Ampt

@HotelCalifornia pretty sure there's an API

HotelCalifornia

well, yeah, probably

I was just wondering how it dealt with sending and receiving messages

Duga

4:48 PM

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it asks for legal advice. We're programmers, not lawyers! — David Wasser 1 min ago

durron597

4:59 PM

I'm looking at the SO low quality posts queue (just because) and honestly, I don't really understand when an answer should be deleted or not

> Recommend Deletion to recommend that this answer be deleted

That's all it says.

Duga

Questions which ask for pointers in the right direction are usually too broad for Stack Overflow, since there are potentially so many answers to such questions. Such questions might do better on Programmers, but be sure to understand the (different) culture of that site before posting there. — John Saunders 1 min ago

Robert Harvey

5:11 PM

It's not TDD if the tool you're testing already exists. Just write ordinary tests. — Robert Harvey 44 secs ago

svidgen

@RobertHarvey I don't think I fully agree.

Even if the application already exists, you can still precede application code changes with testing code.

Robert Harvey

@svidgen Yes, but that's not what he wants to do. He wants to test an ETL scenario. Even if there were code changes, you'd still wrap the existing code with tests before refactoring.

@durron597 Does your button say Delete, or does it say Recommend Deletion? I'm a mod over there, so my button says "Delete."

svidgen

@RobertHarvey Even if he's just testing a data mapping or transformation script, those are both testable. And the tests can precede the mapping/transform authoring.

durron597

@RobertHarvey It says "Recommend Deletion"

I'm not 20k so I can't VTD answers

@RobertHarvey Do you have access to that text or is that a developer only change?

Robert Harvey

Developer-only. Mods can't recommend deletion; their votes are binding.

durron597

5:24 PM

@RobertHarvey you see the (more) dropdown though?

or do you see a different dropdown

Robert Harvey

No, I don't have a dropdown.

But you would use Recommend Deletion the same way you would use a Delete vote.

durron597

@RobertHarvey But answer deletion has different criteria than question deletion

For example, a person could reasonably think that a straight up incorrect answer should be deleted. That is, of course, false, but it's not an unreasonable guess

Robert Harvey

It says "Recommend Deletion" on questions?

durron597

Man, I can't get a question to come up

I'm pressing skip a lot

Never got a question, did 20 reviews. sigh

Probably pressed skip at least 20 times.

enderland

@RobertHarvey "wrong result expectation" ?

Robert Harvey

5:38 PM

Only being slightly dramatic for effect.

Point is, it isn't TDD. Not the way he thinks it is.

Duga

Stackoverflow is a site for specific targeted and intelligent questions about programming, by programmers, for programmers. These opinion based questions and answers are better suited for yahoo answers: here: (answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005121500131) and here (answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080820174408AAZkbcG) — Eric Leschinski 1 min ago

Robert Harvey

@Duga BOOM.

Duga

Good question for programmers.stackexchange.com. — R Sahu 1 min ago

durron597

@Duga That one might actually be a decent migrate.

Robert Harvey

Kind of an amirite question, amirite?

Pros and cons, bleh.

The Lounge will shred that one.

Ampt

5:54 PM

@Duga we've actually stopped accepting new questions on programmers, thanks!

user41796

@durron597 No because it's essentially looking for opinions

user41796

No basis for comparing the two approaches against each other.

Duga

@Ampt Certainly looks like it, based on @GlenH7 and @gnat's comments!

user41796

@Duga We just say that it's closed so the low quality stuff will just go away on their own.

HotelCalifornia

Aw, I wanted to see what the question was, but it's already gone

Robert Harvey

6:23 PM

Is IceWeasel a derivative work of Firefox?

whatsisname

yes

Robert Harvey

Why? Isn't it essentially the same product?

What gives IceWeasel added value sufficient to make it a derived work?

whatsisname

it's just a renamed and relogod firefox yes

the reason is that the trademarks of Firefox have some restrictions on them, seperate from the code itself

Robert Harvey

What license is Firefox under?

whatsisname

restrictions that mean that the debian project cannot apply security patches to it, and release it as Firefox

so, debian chose to rename it to iceweasel and change its icons

Robert Harvey

6:26 PM

Apache, right?

whatsisname

i believe so, but the firefox name and trademarking is granted through some sort of agreement

and debian and mozilla couldn't reach an agreement

Robert Harvey

Well, the H2 guy is claiming that's the same thing as his issue with the H2 addendum, that it adds something to the EPL and MPL licenses that doesn't exist.

I'm starting to wonder.

whatsisname

H2 guy?

Robert Harvey

0

Q: Is the H2 addendum to the EPL and MPL compatible with these licenses?

The H2 Database License is dual licensed under the MPL 2.0 and under the EPL 1.0 with this addendum: However, nobody is allowed to rename H2, modify it a little, and sell it as a database engine without telling the customers it is in fact H2. This happened to HSQLDB: a company called 'bun...

licensing mpl

whatsisname

ah

im not familiar with those licenses

HotelCalifornia

6:31 PM

I use waterfox, which is a 64-bit fork of firefox

Robert Harvey

They pretty much say "You can use it for whatever you want, so long as you preserve the copyright notices."

HotelCalifornia

in case anyone was wondering

Robert Harvey

@HotelCalifornia See, going to 64 bit is substantial value-added.

Making it Linux compatible is substantial value-added.

HotelCalifornia

yep

Robert Harvey

It's not just wholesale copying the program, and then sticking your own name on it and claiming it to be your program.

Duga

6:32 PM

This site is for questions which involve source code or coding concepts, which your question lacks. I would recommend asking your question on a 'meta' site like productivity.stackexchange.com or programmers.stackexchange.com — pelya 45 secs ago

HotelCalifornia

oh I see, yeah that's sketchy

Robert Harvey

So what H2 did is they spelled that out specifically. They said "You can't copy our program, stick your name on it, and call it your own." Problem is, they didn't make that a part of the license. It's just a "clarification" on their web page.

HotelCalifornia

oops

Robert Harvey

Then they would have to call it the "H2 license," and nobody would recognize it.

whatsisname

yeah

Robert Harvey

6:34 PM

Thing is, the EPL and MPL use verbiage like "derived work" and "larger work." Derived Work is actually a term recognized by the copyright office.

It specifies that, for a derived work to be a derived work, it has to provide added value, and not just be a rebranded copy of the original work.

In any case, the question of whether or not the "H2 modification" invalidates the license is one for the lawyers to answer.

Duga

@pelya - This would be quickly closed and likely heavily down voted on Programmers. It is a poll for opinions which is off-topic. — GlenH7 9 secs ago

user15026

Got a job offer with a call center with terrible hours who are now giving me major pushback because my post-op appointment is in a city 1 hour away right during the first week of training, and I can't reschedule it. So I have the feeling they might rescind the offer, because they "can't let me miss more than 1-2 hours of training".

psr

Wow, what a quagmire. I'll just start releasing code with a license saying to be a derived work it must be "awesome and totally not evil".

user41796

@AshleyNunn Sorry to hear it. Keep looking. :-(

user41796

@psr Legally you are allowed to do so. It is up to future users to determine if your code is worth the onerous license terms.

HotelCalifornia

6:37 PM

There was a license someone I knew drafted...
https://github.com/jakimfett/DBaJ

psr

@AshleyNunn This despite the likely fact that you could start an hour from now and be fine.

durron597

@AshleyNunn You have to start before the post op appointment? Can't you just start the following week?

Robert Harvey

@psr The "Don't be a dick" license.

durron597

@psr Yeah, that too.

user15026

@GlenH7 That's the plan. Still waiting on the reply, but not holding my breath.

Robert Harvey

6:38 PM

@AshleyNunn That sounds like a job you don't want.

user15026

@durron597 Nope, because they only run training classes in call centers every so often, so you have to start then and no other time, and attend all teh training, etc

psr

@RobertHarvey At least that one holds the possibility of someone being legally proven to be a dick.

user15026

@RobertHarvey Yes, yes it does. Would take to have incoming cashflow, but am very much still looking, regardless of outcome

Robert Harvey

user15026

@RobertHarvey laughs I love that xkcd because it is so true

user15026

6:51 PM

Lit crit is so easy to bs

HotelCalifornia

just throw together a bunch of long words and references to literature

user15026

@HotelCalifornia This is how I got through my undergrad!

Ixrec

I might be the only programmer who actually disagrees with that comic

user15026

@Ixrec In general, or this one specifically?

Ixrec

probably because I have a girlfriend whose uni course was American Lit so whenever we talk about a "literary" book it's very obvious she knows this stuff better than I do

in general

it's definitely on the right end of the scale but it'd still be measured in minutes

enderland

6:56 PM

There are few fields where it is nearly impossible for "anyone" to become an expert, or at least, know enough to argue with someone who has studied the field for years...

Everyone can tell a doctor they are wrong!

Ixrec

there's argue, and then there's argue without making yourself look stupid =)

user15026

@Ixrec I have a English degree - its easier than you think to bullshit this stuff if you have a passing knowledge of it.

user15026

Because legit, that's why I have a degree.

Ixrec

or perhaps you are an expert

durron597

Anyone know how to fix this one?

0

Q: How do I override filesystem mounted over CIFS permissions?

I am attempting to mount an ext4 filesystem over cifs. Here's my line in /etc/fstab (remote / mount removed for horiz scrolling reasons): cifs defaults,username=user,password=x,uid=500,gid=500,umask=0022 0 0 I have also tried cifs defaults,username=user,password=x,uid=500,gid=500,file_mode=0...

permissions mount fstab cifs

user15026

7:03 PM

@Ixrec Not even a little bit, and that's okay :)

whatsisname

fix your question, or fix your problem?

durron597

@whatsisname My problem. What's wrong with my question?

whatsisname

Nothing, but I just wanted to be sure

maybe there was something I wasn't seeing

as usually we are posting garbage questions in here and trying to fix them

durron597

@whatsisname Or trying to get smart people to answer our own questions

Thomas Owens

You know how I've been looking for projects? Maybe I should work on an Eclipse project...some are interesting.

Has anyone here ever looked at working on an Eclipse project before?

durron597

7:09 PM

I have a project suggestion @ThomasOwens

whatsisname

not me

Thomas Owens

@durron597 What is it?

durron597

5

Q: Sidebar is FAQ'ed, lets update the FAQ tags

Yes! The sidebar has been FAQed! Our faq has 18 questions in it while faq-proposed has 40 more. What questions should move there for easier access for people unfamiliar with the workings of meta? I'd also mention that the faq has some rather dated material in it that could get a good looking ...

discussion tags

Thomas Owens

Oh. Yeah.

Bookmarked. I'm busy tonight. Will look at this (and work on that meta post) later this week.

durron597

I'd do it myself but, you know, no diamond.

Have to resign myself to nagging

enderland

7:11 PM

hrrrm, 0/1 so far...

Telastyn

I looked a little into visual studio mods, though it turns out it did what I wanted out of the box.

HotelCalifornia

VS is pretty great

whatsisname

why can't any of the local bike shops have a good parts selector website

ugh

I made a visual studio plugin/mod thing several years ago that was super awesome

it was miserable to do though because documentation was sparse

user41796

@enderland Boo hiss. Was it the BA role?

enderland

@GlenH7 no. apparently my STAR examples weren't good enough (???)

user41796

7:18 PM

Double bummer then. Sorry to hear it

enderland

C'est la vie

durron597

@MichaelT Want to update your list? Thomas Owens just said he'd look at it later this week

user41796

@enderland Yep. Focus on the other and look for additional irons to put in the fire

enderland

@GlenH7 I don't really want to leave my current company, but ffs this is getting annoying

user41796

No kidding

user41796

7:21 PM

"Dear Employer, it's okay to show a little bit of love my way. I promise I won't take it to mean too much."

enderland

Meh

It's annoying not having an official comp e or com sci background too

user15026

Okay, now I am waiting on a phone call, because they might stick me in a different training class for a different call center position starting a week later, but they need to have a conference call first.

user41796

@AshleyNunn Can't decide on anything without a conference call

user15026

@GlenH7 I suspect she's like getting permission for the switch or something

user41796

apropos of nothing - is there an industry specific term for an employee rewards program where employees are allowed to select and send rewards to other employees? ie. peer-to-peer as opposed to management recognizing the underlings?

user41796

7:27 PM

@AshleyNunn Probably. Different call center likely meand different cost center, so she'd be transferring from her budget to a different budget

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I figured it was likely something like that. Still looking elsewhere, though

enderland

@GlenH7 often referred to as carrots

probably still have to go through your HR department to avoid all sorts of weird legal issues, though

user41796

@enderland Yeah, I know the IRS has lots of rules about it. But I'd like to propose one for my work place

enderland

Keep the amounts small or nonmonetary and you're probably fine

user41796

IIRC, we were limited to 3 gifts per year of a nominal $25 value. That stayed below reporting guidelines / taxable levels

enderland

7:34 PM

@GlenH7 I think this is making me so much more demoralized than I even thought possible about this process

user41796

Many large corps are stuck in the past with regards to that level of process evaluation

enderland

Yeah, it's annoying though, especially since I know how stuff like STAR works and focus my answers that way

I guess, though, my problem is I'm naturally good and gifted with process/people stuff, but for technical positions those outcomes are means to an end of improved technical outcomes -- rather than an actual "result"

user41796

But do the interviewers understand it that well?

Telastyn

demoralization is the nature of business.

user15026

Job offer withdrawn, as expected.

user41796

7:40 PM

@AshleyNunn Sorry to hear it

user41796

Even if expected, that still stinks

enderland

@GlenH7 I don't know, hard to say...

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I am kinda irritated, but oh well. Will keep on keeping on.

user41796

So the thought process there is if you're doing a super great job of molding into what the company expects to see but that's not what the interviewer expects to see, then you can end up with an impedance mismatch.

enderland

yup

HotelCalifornia

7:42 PM

I love when tutorials aren't really tutorials

'here's our code! enjoy!'

enderland

I was also interviewing for a 100% technical development position, where people skills are very much a secondary or tertiary issue

part of the interview was a weird pair programming thing where neither the interviewer nor I really understand what was going on

HotelCalifornia

it's fine and good that they have the code, but it's meaningless if they don't explain how it works

user41796

@enderland oh, that's not good

Telastyn

depends on your copy/paste goals.

user41796

I despise pair programming to begin with. That just seems... weird

Telastyn

7:44 PM

indeed.

HotelCalifornia

copy/paste goals == nonexistent rn
I'd rather learn the concept and apply it than just blindly use something someone else has made

Telastyn

shrug sometimes I just want to paste a solution into the black box.

and sometimes I want to paste functional code into the IDE so I can experiment from a good place.

but yes, most tutorials are horrific

they're written by skilled people who put in too many implicit expectations or by unskilled people who barely know the topic in the first place. And that ignores the fact that most people suck, and most people suck at writing.

HotelCalifornia

ah, found a good one code.tutsplus.com/tutorials/…

whatsisname

the worst are 'tutorials' that are videos

instead of text

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