The Whiteboard

Q: How to hide AOP implementation dependency without breaking encapsulation?

1:56 AM

user55340

2:22 AM

cv-plz programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/239106/… (and hopefully a speedy delete too)

user41796

2:46 AM

@MichaelT I got it one VTC closer. I'll double check in the AM to see if it's ready for delete.

user41796

@RobertHarvey small smidge, yes. We're starting to incorporate it into our UI v.#.

rolfl

3:47 AM

About to pull the trigger on migrating a question to Programmers, but thought I would confirm/check here (instead of directly pinging a programmers mod).

0

I have the concept of a SlowLoading thing: public interface SlowLoading { boolean hasLoaded(); } I also have a component MyComponent: public interface myComponent{ void doSomething(); } My implementation covers both: public class MyComponentImpl implements SlowLoading, MyComponent { ...

If it does not come to programmers, I am just going to close it.

Meh.

bhuvin

8:06 AM

Hi Guys !

Hey @rolfl , @RobertHarvey

10:31 AM

Hi, I am developing an ideal coding flow on pseudo code, it was not valid for an question, so I post it here. Let's see how it looks like in chat.

WHEN Mikko IS programming THEN DO {
ON_ISSUE() {
First of all investigate throughly WHAT is the issue and WHAT causes it. Ask if you're not 100% sure.
THEN identify HOW you can fix it. The fix is obvious and one line, normally.
Code it. Test, success, DONE!
}

ON_TASK() {
Identify what is needed to be done. Probably take some "basement" from an existing solution.
Select functionality, one portion. Add possible stubs to others.
Make that work. DONE that part. Then select the next one.
}
}

Any opinions, suggestions?

10:44 AM

while(compiling)

'Are you stealing those LCDs?' 'Yeah, but I'm doing it while my code compiles.'

That's the picture of my previous "flow".

Now I wanted some new.

11:42 AM

My main interest was before to get over the next compile, not identify the issue in first place. At least energy was consumed to wrong thing eg. frustration of lazy computer not finding out the lazy programmer..

What is up with all the "gimme the codez" and homework questions the past couple of days?

new trimester homework?

In the US, most schools have graduated and are in summer. I'm not sure about other places, but I wouldn't expect this kind of influx at this point in the year due to school.

Maybe other country but US? Maybe some other countries have different schedule and longer "last minute"..

in EU most unis will start the exam period about now

11:58 AM

I'm not imagining the low quality questions, am I? The ones that show no sign of effort or research.

Seen them too. I suspect one was from exam while there was the direct copy paste of question and only question to SO was "could you help me out. Why they always ask this and I cannot answer".. Come on!

What you can but close that kind of things?

Not much. If they don't learn, mod message them. But that's only if the down votes, closures, and deletions don't block them from asking questions first, since that's just a waste of time.

Well, most of these 1 rep guys. No can do.

user41796

1:05 PM

@rolfl Good one for migration; thanks!

user41796

@ThomasOwens No, not your imagination. There have been several afternoons where I stop watching the feed because I'm out of close votes. Or the influx is simply too depressing to watch.

user41796

@mico You're combining state with methods, and that's what's hanging you up. And your methods are too big, so you'll have a harder time keeping the detangled from each other. Prefixing your methods with "ON_" is a big giveaway that you're really dealing with state. Methods should deal with actions.

2:32 PM

This summer, I'll be in Seattle during Boston Beer and Bacon Festival and Boston during Seattle's Beer Week (which I have been informed also contains large amounts of bacon). I kind of have poor timing, don't I?

3:39 PM

@ratchetfreak How long is your compile cycle? Because I have a project with about 80,000 lines of code in it right now, and the 15 second compile time on that seems like a long time to me.

@RobertHarvey My last job the compile took ~45 minutes for any and every change - including javascript changes because of how they managed their javascript. Talk about a stupidly organized system...

That's just crazy.

When I worked in VBA, there was no compile cycle.

This is why people like REPLs.

@RobertHarvey it was ridiculous, as if their policies already weren't wasteful of dev time enough, everytime I did finally get some code to change or write, it would just fits and stops of "ok I have something" click build and wander around for almost an hour or browse the web

@RobertHarvey it's true. I can get a long way in Node.JS or SmallTalk in working on the software live and running to see how it'll work with no compile-time breaks

It seems like such an extreme difference in programming styles. I can see why all the C++ guys are such crystallography weenies... Their code has to be right the first time, before they push the compile button.

@RobertHarvey yeah, that toolchain is so much more than scary

3:43 PM

@RobertHarvey have you ever tried to compile the entire pcl suite? that took an hour on my machine

No, I haven't had the pleasure. :)

or the boost binaries that also takes a while

You look at some of the more spartan languages like Scheme, and go "wait, where's my toolset? Where's the IDE? Where's my intellisense?" There isn't any of that.

@RobertHarvey Sometimes you really don't need much toolset. Haskell has a compiler, a package manager, and a command line build tool, and a REPL, and that's really enough. edit file-> :reload in REPL and see what happens. Or with Emacs.... many languages are like that.

I also once had to test an integer overflow with writing to a file seek pointer overflow, that took me an hour or 2 just to let it all write out...

3:50 PM

.NET devs are just treated like the whole visual studio experience is completely required

meh commandline is enough for all the compiling needs :)

or if you are tired of the use a batch file

I mean, you could do C# development without the IDE. You could also take your trash to the landfill one item at a time, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea.

My current project has 300 classes in it. I don't know how I'd navigate that without an IDE.

grep

or right windows doesn't have that

Yeah, but "Go To Reference" is so convenient.

true

3:53 PM

On the flip side, my God is that thing bloated. A single core machine running at 3Ghz is no longer enough horsepower for Visual Studio.

and besides it having 25 threads most of the work is still done on a single one

it'll peg a that thread quite happily and not even bother with basic parallelism

@RobertHarvey my point isn't people shouldn't use visual studio, but rather that it's not necessary - moreover one can be quite productive and a very effective developer without that huge behemoth. Which much of the .NET industry would claim heresy because they blind themselves to how other language users operate

there are other IDEs you could use

@JimmyHoffa I would need a much better gray-matter memory than I have now to work that way.

Though obviously if you're working in .NET - you'd be an idiot not to work in it - you will obviously be more effective in .NET using it than not

@RobertHarvey yes and no, perhaps you would design things to require less memory

3:57 PM

unless you find that mythical perfect IDE for .NET

Last night, I did a bunch of refactoring by simply chasing type errors through the classes. That would be hard to do in a text editor.

not really

It can be said that intellisense causes devs to make code that's harder to maintain because they have this huge crutch that reminds them of things all the time. Meanwhile if you didn't have intellisense, you might put code together in a way so that when you come back 6 months later, you don't need to use your memory because the things being referenced are all in the file or otherwise organized

edit ->recompile->see error

Yeah, I guess. But "Go to Error" is really convenient. :)

3:59 PM

I guarantee you knowing intellisense is there leads .NET devs to design their code and systems in a way differently than if they didn't have intellisense

something people don't think about - all of these tools change the way you design things subconciously

Maybe. I could do with a better knowledge of the Framework Library landscape. Anyone have a year I can borrow? :P

@RobertHarvey Please, take 2012, I could have done without it

Heh.

it was a nice end of the world...

Most churches get away with that because they don't give specifics. "We know the end of the world is coming, we just don't know when."

It's when you get specific that you're doomed. Even then, they can always weasel out by saying "well, I guess I got my calculations wrong."

4:04 PM

> the line was fuzzy I must have misheard year for eon

psr

4:27 PM

@JimmyHoffa Dear god! I assume nothing ever actually got done?

I wish I could say that the 45 minute compile cycle was uncommon. Alas, I've heard it all too often. As I understand it, a big part of the whole continuous integration movement is to have several really fast computers continuously grinding on the code base so that compile cycles can be minimized.

@JimmyHoffa Good point of programming style vs ide usage. When coding with notepad you automatically try to keep code simple. At least you avoid extra complexity, not even speaking about every fetch function automatics and so on.

You can automate match fetching of new interfaces and stuff, which is not always nice

@ratchetfreak The Point Cloud Library?

4:57 PM

@RobertHarvey yep the prebuilt available are only 1.6 while I need 1.7

user55340

5:15 PM

@RobertHarvey modularization is key there. That said, it doesn't matter if a full build takes a long time if the devs can do quick turn arounds with working with smaller parts of the code (unit tests, smaller libs, IDEs that recompile just the code that is changed for its internal vm...)

Jim G.

@Prog: If you can't slog through three 25 minute Pomodoro sprints, then you might want to consider a different profession. — Jim G. 10 secs ago

A: Working on a project, lacking motivation to actually get to coding

5:56 PM

-4

@Robert Harvey Now excuse me while I close my browser and go get some work done. I don't think watching youtube videos about kittens on your tablet qualifies as getting work done ;) @Prog Try to build the mental model: I'm gonna do the laundry in 20 minutes, let me program a little until t...

How did he know??

6:13 PM

@psr literally nothing. Least productive six months of my life.

@MichaelT yeah when I worked more on build stuff this is what I always drove towards for that reason. I couldn't drive architecture to make them fix their jacked up builds, but I could at least get builds moving quicker by convincing them to break shit up

psr

It's strange when people let things go so far beyond the point of becoming completely unworkable.

@psr yeah, poor MUMPS devs

whatsisname

6:28 PM

lol

psr

7:16 PM

:15549101 MUMPS devs don't have to wait for a 45 minute compile to fire up the REPL and do a quick
S Q="^oddDEF",QL=Q  F  S Q=$Q(@Q)  Q:$E(Q,1,$L(QS))'=QS  I @Q["ToDo:"  W !,@Q,":",Q