The Whiteboard

user55340

1:04 AM

@GlenH7 btw, that halting question answer was in reference to one of the early inclusionists on P.SE.

Matt D

HALT!

IN THE NAME OF LOVE.. doesnt quite have the same ring to it

psr

1:41 AM

@GlenH7 lock him in a room with JimmyHoffa's singleton guy!

@MichaelT 81% of those who think so are web developers.

gnat

6:55 AM

free spam flags: programmers.stackexchange.com/a/231569/31260

gnat

10:10 AM

free plagiarism flags: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/106473/…

Jimmy Hoffa

4:06 PM

The problem with singletons is they're a really complex form of statics, where people should (in C#) almost always just use a static. People think the complexity and ceremony of the pattern adds thread safety over a plain static, which is just wrong. Statelessness will add thread safety to your statics, but those who like patterns are usually fans of state as it's part and parcel of the classic 90's OO idiom

user55340

4:53 PM

@GlenH7 recall that bit on shuffling songs and using a draw program to distribute them? labs.spotify.com/2014/02/28/how-to-shuffle-songs I was a little late.

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT :( Blocked at work.

Also, Spotify bought that Nest something company.

gnat

5:18 PM

recommended reading: Where to start. See also: Why is asking a question on “best practice” a bad thing? — gnat 1 min ago

^^^ killer mix of a question

never thought I'll have to put both these references in a single comment. But... the question just asks for that

jippie

5:52 PM

morning

I never really understood the scope for this stack, hence never been posting here ... Just for discussion sake, not planning to migrate the question, would this be on topic here? And why?

2

Q: Efficient algorithm/data structure to calculate moving averages

Currently I am developing a graphic LCD system to display temperatures, flows, voltages, power and energy in a heat pump system. The use of a graphic LCD means that half of my SRAM and ~75% of my flash have been used up by a screen buffer and strings. I am currently displaying min/max/average fi...

notice a resource constrained platform. couple 100 bytes ram, couple kB flash.

user55340

6:28 PM

@jippie The canonical MSO post about the scopes of the sites:

user55340

77

A: Which computer science / programming Stack Exchange do I post in?

Stack Overflow Implementation problems, and question on software tools commonly used by programmers. If your code or your IDE doesn't work, ask on Stack Overflow. Does not welcome subjective questions (any more). Programmers The main focus is whiteboard questions, problems that you face while...

user15026

@MichaelT oooh, I didn't know this existed.

user15026

Also, I have an interview today! :D

user55340

@AshleyNunn Whee!

user55340

@AshleyNunn Yannis's posts on MSO about P.SE are often a very good read.

user15026

6:29 PM

It's for a marketing company, but hey! money! I like money!

user15026

@MichaelT If they are like this one, then I can totally see why :D

user41796

@jippie The algorithm portion of your question is certainly on topic for Progs. If it were to be migrated (I know this is just a hypothetical), then I would edit to draw that out more. The hardware constraints make it a little more gray. But we have a number of community members who work on embedded systems professionally. I would probably break it into a two part question, first focusing on the algorithm, second addressing the hardware constraint.

user41796

@AshleyNunn The beautiful thing about money is it all spends the same regardless of origin.

user41796

@MichaelT great find, I'm enjoying their writeup.

user15026

@GlenH7 Yep. This is a thing I appreciate very much at the moment. And I figure I like talking to people, and I am relatively approachable and junk, so I should be okay :) Hoping the interview goes well. It's over Skype, which fascinates me.

user41796

6:32 PM

@AshleyNunn Talk a little more slowly; try not to use too much hand motion

user55340

@GlenH7 The only 'flaw' with it has to do with where the single entry songs are placed. Also, it only takes into account artist. Would be interesting to have other parameters in there.

user15026

@GlenH7 The hand motion is going to be tricky. I am such a hand talker :P

user41796

@AshleyNunn just slow it down a tad. Remember that there will be latency in the call, and packets get dropped

jippie

@GlenH7 not sure if breaking it up would work, I can think of algorithms that have been entirely changed to fit in a microcontroller. But that is all slightly off topic, I was trying to get a better understanding of this stack's scope. I'll check the meta question.

thnx

user15026

@GlenH7 Yep. I use Skype a lot (long distance relationship), so I am used to things like that. I just gotta remember to be all calm and junk.

user41796

6:34 PM

@AshleyNunn breathe. :-)

enderland

@AshleyNunn workplace.stackexchange.com/q/7248/2322

user41796

@jippie YW. My suggestions were more to make your question stand out and get solid answers. It's fine enough for the site as is.

user41796

@jippie - and you're always welcome to ask here in chat if a Q is on-topic or ask for help with structuring something so it will be received well.

user15026

@enderland ooohhhh, this is awesome useful stuff

jippie

@GlenH7 It is good to know my options :)

user41796

6:35 PM

@enderland looks to be a gem of a question

user15026

@GlenH7 I am trying to :P

user55340

@enderland (psst, you know that direct message replies can get one boxed?)

enderland

@MichaelT yeah well I didn't direct reply, hahah

user55340

Just checking...

user41796

@MichaelT He and ampt got a little overboard the other day with that

user41796

6:37 PM

Then some old troll told them to cut it out. And to get off of the lawn.

user55340

(actually at home today - co-worker was out two days this week with the stomach flu and I had some unexplained nausea last night - decided it would be better to take a sick day than further spread it in the office, if I've got it)

enderland

@GlenH7 kids these days!

user55340

Feeling better after sleeping till noon...

user15026

@MichaelT That's not a bad plan. Hopefully you feel better and don't actually get the flu

enderland

@AshleyNunn Thanks, I was skimming and realized... hey that might be really good to link here

user41796

6:43 PM

> Ensure all pets are not going to make an appearance.

user41796

I'll actually forgive this one during a phone or skype interview. But I suspect I'm the oddity from that point of view. I'm just as likely to ask about the dog if they have one.

enderland

I suspect that is fairly polarized, I doubt many people are in the middle group on it

user55340

upper staff went to Portland to talk to a partner company. They were in a place where the devs worked - all the tables were whiteboards themselves, moveable cube walls on wheels for setting up work groups on the fly - even the bathrooms were whiteboards (project manager commented on some of the comments in the women's room).

user41796

I would have to agree. Somewhat surprisingly, I take note of what a candidate wears to the interview. I expect the candidate to dress a noticeable notch above corporate culture.

user55340

So... top sales guy was sitting down. About 5 min into the meeting he jumped up when something brushed his leg. And he shouted "its a dog!"

user55340

6:50 PM

(everyone started laughing and the rest of the meeting went well... just the "its a dog!" being amusing)

user41796

"yeah, we're kinda like that here..."

user55340

But loudly proclaim there's a dog? Thats... kind of obvious.

enderland

@GlenH7 thats the thing with interviewing, everyone has different things they "care about" and "don't care about" - but good luck figuring out which people think are important...

user41796

@enderland indeed, and that's why interviewing is SO MUCH FUN

enderland

... which side of it? :-)

though I enjoy going to interviews, actually

user41796

6:53 PM

@MichaelT I probably would have been startled too if I hadn't been expecting one there. But I'm not used to crazy, left-coast, hippie office environments. :-) After being startled, I would have stopped paying attention to the meeting and petted the dog instead.

user41796

@enderland I enjoy both

user55340

At netapp, some dogs even had official badges.

user41796

I always view it as a learning experience. And when I interview others, I do my best to put them at ease.

user55340

Oh, since no one has mentioned haskell recently, github.com/pchiusano/fpinscala/wiki/…

user41796

@MichaelT the last part of the title indicates why it is a fundamentally flawed premise. :-)

enderland

7:02 PM

@GlenH7 I had another bug with that stuff we were talking about yesterday for arrays. I'm sick of that, I think I'm going to fix ALL of my code which returns arrays to do that...

user15026

I am so nervous. I figured wearing what I would wear to any other interview would be helpful.

user41796

@AshleyNunn If nothing else, it shows you're serious about the opportunity

user41796

Not that enderland needs his ego fluffed, but I thought that was a really solid answer he provided about skype interviews

user55340

So... debating the structure of this code currently that I'm reworking. Exporting excel workbooks. You've got a workbook object and you set up styles in it that you can later use. Currently, these styles are stored in a Map<String,CellStyle> which... well... I don't like.

user41796

@enderland some days you do what you gotta do... :-)

user15026

7:03 PM

@GlenH7 It is, I am totally using bits of it :)

user55340

    CellStyle style = book.createCellStyle();
    Font font = book.createFont();
    font.setBoldweight(Font.BOLDWEIGHT_BOLD);
    style.setFont(font);
    styles.put("bold", style);

user15026

@GlenH7 That's what I thought too. :) I figured showing off my best me would be good.

enderland

plus it's friday, not like I'm going to get super intense hardcore dev stuff done anyways. lol

user41796

@AshleyNunn You have researched this company, right?

user15026

@GlenH7 Yep! Inside and out.

user55340

7:04 PM

I'm moving this into an inner class. And debating pre-populated fields vs functions.

user15026

I know many things.

user41796

You've got a list of questions to ask them?

enderland

@AshleyNunn one thing which is helpful is having a few prepared questions, I've always done this (and not just super generic things)

user15026

@GlenH7 I am working on that now. Not sure what sort of stuff to ask, but I am trying to find out stuff.

user41796

super generic stuff is better than nothing

user41796

7:06 PM

but also ask about specifics of the role; why they have the opening (back fill vs. growth)

user55340

Size of group you would be working with, roles you would be working with

user41796

what's the key elements they need in the role above all the others

user15026

For the record? You guys are amazingly helpful.

enderland

here's the questions I asked my last onsite interview - pastebin.com/uuELWbmX

user41796

@AshleyNunn yw. and fluffing our egos will get you everywhere... :-)

user15026

7:08 PM

grins

enderland

I had something like 4 onsite interviews though, so I didn't ask them all of each person...

user15026

Hey, I already promised cupcakes! Isn't that enough ;)

user41796

Make sure you get names of those you talk with. Send at least one thank you note to the recruiter coordinating the call. More if you have direct email addresses

user41796

ask what the next steps in the interview process will be and when they are looking to fill the role.

user15026

@GlenH7 I have the email etc. of the woman who contacted me for the interview (and is the one I will be talking to in two hours)

user15026

7:09 PM

So I will send a thank you

user41796

perfect. I'm always disappointed when candidates don't send anything at all.

user41796

And they always have the email of our recruiter. And I know she forwards any thank you notes she receives.

enderland

I'm relatively astonished the number of people who interview and miss what I consider "basic" stuff

user41796

@enderland the great part is that if you nail the basics then you stand out all the more.

user15026

@enderland what do you mean?

user15026

7:12 PM

(Please tell me everything, this is the most professional interview i have had yet, the others were like for fast food and junk)

user41796

dressing appropriately; thank you notes; basic manners; taking notes during the interview; having questions to ask (and demonstrate you did your homework)

user41796

Act as if you want the job instead of being entitled to it

user41796

show genuine interest in the work they do

user41796

lots of folk flub those items

user15026

Although I am looking at reviews of the company online and I am....slightly apprehensive

user41796

7:15 PM

@AshleyNunn about?

user55340

Oh, random vote to delete observation - on a closed question I saw one vtd on each of the answers, and none on the question too. Just curious.

user15026

@GlenH7 Their processes

user15026

Everything

user15026

indeed.com/cmp/Kognitive-Marketing/reviews

user55340

@AshleyNunn Ask lots of questions then...

user15026

7:16 PM

@MichaelT Yeah, I am planinng to

user41796

Most people who provide an online review of their company have an axe to grind

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I am just worried because there are SO many negative reviews

user55340

The silent majority vs the "I hated my job"

user41796

Marketing can be a tough business, no doubt about that

user41796

but, so can IT, so can a lot of other fields.

user41796

7:18 PM

skimming the first page of reviews, I see a lot of sales or sales equivalent roles listed

user15026

yeah

user15026

that's what i would be doing

user41796

In any company, you can see night & day differences depending upon what group you're in

user41796

so you may also pitch it to yourself as "get started; earn some cash; keep looking."

user15026

@GlenH7 That's kinda what I am telling myself

user41796

7:21 PM

There are jobs I have held that I would never go back to (like flipping burgers) but the experience I gained was very valuable.

enderland

@AshleyNunn what @GlenH7 said - people blow "basics" stuff

I guess at a very deep level I see interviewing as me also answering, "do I want to work here?" which naturally leads to taking it fairly seriously, taking notes, asking questions, etc

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I value my customer service expereince, and will go back if I need to, but it isn;'t something I wanna do forever

MetaFight

What does dressing up nicely accomplish in an interview?

user41796

@AshleyNunn Reading the reviews now.

user41796

Have lots of questions handy. It never hurts to have a conversation. The worst that can happen at this point is they don't invite you back for another interview. Although if all of the reviews are to be believed, the worst would be that they do invite you back... :-)

user41796

7:26 PM

If nothing else, it's practice for other professional level interviews

user15026

Yeah, I have tons of qurstions now haha

user41796

@MetaFight shows you care about the job and actually want it

MetaFight

@GlenH7 Only by convention, though.

user55340

@MetaFight formalisms matter to HR and managers.

MetaFight

The clothes I'm wearing don't themselves say anything. Following the arbitrary convention of dressing up is what says something.

@MichaelT true

I understand that it would matter to HR. I just wish it didn't matter so much to managers.

user41796

7:28 PM

@MetaFight conventions can be useful and serve a purpose

user55340

Depends on the manager and the corporate culture - which you don't always know when you interview.

MetaFight

it's a heuristic selection mechanism.

user55340

(back in '98 I interviewed at Netapp wearing blue jeans and a black T-shirt, beard & ponytail... but then that was what was expected of a programmer in SV at the time)

MetaFight

I recently went to an interview in jeans, a nice shirt and a nice jacket.

my flatmate thought I was underdressed... I hoped I was overdressed ;)

user41796

@MetaFight could be perfectly fine, depending upon the org.

user15026

7:31 PM

I am wearing a nice shirt and jacket/blazer thing

user41796

even with my current place (which is a bit stuffy), the jacket would have carried you a fair degree

user15026

and jeans but they won't see those

MetaFight

Yeah, I'm kind of hoping that gettup will weed out companies that focus on the wrong things (appearance)... though I know my approach is flawed.

user55340

Dressing up can be seen (to an extent) as caring.

user41796

To me, how a candidate dresses is a proxy for their ability to gauge corporate culture and their ability to blend in

MetaFight

7:32 PM

yeah. I know I'm being idealistic... but I just hope that the conversation will show that I'm qualified and that I care. Not my shoes.

user55340

(which was part of the '98 silly valley thing too - you could get a job if you fogged up a mirror... you didn't care. At that time unemployment was sometimes measured in hours rather than days or weeks)

MetaFight

I have pretty awesome shoes, though.

user41796

but there is a need to dress up a notch (or two) to indicate an actual interest in the job. It's a silent "hey, I went out of my way to dress in a monkey suit to show you I give a damn about this gig"

user55340

I recall the SGI layoff in '97. Engineers had jobs at different companies that day.

user15026

@GlenH7 This is especially true because I am in my own house :P

MetaFight

7:33 PM

@AshleyNunn good point.

user15026

although I am not putting socks on

user15026

I hate socks

MetaFight

I wouldn't be able to hire you without socks.

user41796

@AshleyNunn The webcam should never point at your feet anyway

user55340

You could send an entirely different message if you Skype nude.

user41796

7:34 PM

@MichaelT or in pajamas

user15026

@MichaelT yeah I am not sure I wanna send that message

user41796

or in a torn tee shirt

MetaFight

Hairy shoulders never landed anyone a job.

user15026

@GlenH7 If it does, I have bigger problems

user15026

@MetaFight I'd wear socks just for you then

MetaFight

7:35 PM

@AshleyNunn your gesture is appreciated and interpreted as a genuine interest in the job.

user41796

@MetaFight - how did your interview go BTW? IIRC, you have been looking for a little bit now.

user55340

@GlenH7 btw, notice the placement of delete votes here - programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/231552/…

user41796

@MichaelT Not sure I would have wasted a delete vote against that answer.

user55340

@GlenH7 There was also one on the other answer too.

user41796

The 2nd answer was del'd by owner

user55340

7:43 PM

The thing is it appears there's a P.SE population that is more likely to vtd an answer than a question.

user55340

Just one of those curious observations. If you poke at the answers you vtd'ed the other day and note the third vote on most of them... wasn't me.

user55340

And yet, those names don't show up in question deletes.

user55340

Just curious.

user41796

@MichaelT Hmmm, that's an interesting point. I can think of one or two names that showed up with VTD against answers but I don't frequently see with questions. I kind of wonder if those users know of the /tools delete tab.

user55340

Thats the only way to find old those delete votes.

user55340

7:46 PM

At least on the same day.

user55340

The 'recent delete votes' is the only way to have seen activity on your votes that day.

user55340

So, they're looking - but only casting them on answers.

MetaFight

@GlenH7 It did not go well. It was my first interview in about 6 years, so I didn't expect much. They had me start with a written test which went well and then we discussed my work. I wasn't a big fan of what they considered "good code" and things degenerated from there. We remained polite, but it was clear neither was a good fit for the other.

user55340

@MetaFight Thats actually a 'good' in that you're not working at a place that isn't a good fit... well, a qualified good.

MetaFight

Where I'm currently focusing on writing self-documenting, easy to maintain code, they're focusing on optimising for performance right away, and maybe getting some automated tests in eventually.

user41796

7:50 PM

@MetaFight I don't mean to sugar coat, but better to find that out now. We had someone recently leave the team after ~6 months, and one of the big challenges was coding style.

user55340

Think of the other situation where you take it and then find out later and feel you have to stick around for at least a year to avoid a job hopper label.

user41796

@MichaelT I think you're right. Interesting since it's some high rep users in that group

user55340

As I said, its just curious and a different philosophy of delete votes.

MetaFight

Yeah, I'm not kicking myself over it. It was just a bit of a bummer.

my other interview 6 years ago had gone so well! I was kinda hoping they were always going to be that good :)

user41796

@MetaFight I like to dissect my "failed" interviews more so than my successful ones. I find I learn a lot more that way.

MetaFight

7:53 PM

I need to start applying to more places. I'm really dragging my feet. I'd much rather continue working on my own projects that get an actual job.

user55340

@MetaFight having interviewed during the recession for several places... yea, it would be so nice that you could go in with and they were desperate for anyone.

MetaFight

@GlenH7 I was tempted to email the interviewer and ask him for some pointers on what I could improve, but I didn't. We have such drastically different coding styles that I doubt I would have appreciated any of his feedback. I also didn't want to accidentally come across as confrontational.

user55340

They do consistently show up in delete votes on answers. One wonders if they are of the feeling that maintaining quality on the site is a matter of removing bad answers more than removing the questions that attract them. A scalpel here and there to cut away the -5 answer rather than trying to take down a +5 question and all the answers.

user41796

@MetaFight probably just as well. If the interview didn't end particularly well, that will bias any follow-up emails. I might drop a "thanks for the time, sorry it wasn't a solid fit. I appreciated learning about your firm." which maintains a level of professionalism.

user41796

@MichaelT That crowd certainly has delete votes to spare, so certainly possible.

MetaFight

7:59 PM

@GlenH7 I already sent a thank you message. A friend of mine works at the company, so I had to stay professional for his sake ;) He recommended me for the interview, after all.

user41796

Props for covering your friend's reputation

gnat

-1

A: Python Webkit DOM Bindings in PyWebkitGtk and PyWebkitQt

cor you didn't 'arf pick an obscure place to ask this sam! better would have been to join the mailing list or perhaps look up my email address and contact me directly. as this question's here i'll be happy to answer it though. 1) after a long break i'm re-considering doing the debian packaging...

^^^ can anyone translate?

user55340

@gnat British slang as a 1st impression.

enderland

@gnat the answerer appears to be the lead developer for PyWebkitGTK

user55340

0

A: pywebkitgtk: Headless + full DOM interaction possible?

hi i'm the developer responsible for pythonwebkit, and i have a great deal of expertise covering these areas across several platforms. realistically, you really really want a completely "headless" webkit port. in pythonwebkit that actually shouldn't be too hard to do, as there are only three "e...

user55340

8:05 PM

"God, you didn't have to pick such an obscure place to ask this!" as the first sentence.

Ampt

How does this guy get anything done... that was one long winded ramble of an answer

gnat

@MichaelT well, looking at the question I tend to agree with "you didn't have to pick" part. It reads as broad and vague as it gets (I am outta CVs for today)

user41796

@MichaelT I read that as "course" and short for "of course"

user55340

The use of 'cor' as british slang, combined with the "'arf" and "!" lead me to that translation.

user55340

exasperation. Something that he was uniquely qualified to answer, but hadn't been here before today.

gnat

8:11 PM

whatever, their CV demonstrates ability to spell right: lkcl.net/cv.txt

user55340

onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/cor

user55340

@gnat Professional vs familiar writing... and confusing that on P.SE we tend to prefer the professional form.

user41796

Their SO answer didn't give me the impression that they understood SE expectations.

user55340

(tough I'll admit to switching to familiar writing to be allowed certain phrases and styles to keep the reader's attention)

gnat

@MichaelT oh but... but aren't Programmers a forum?

user41796

8:13 PM

Likely used to just listserves

user41796

@gnat (flags as offensive)

gnat

@GlenH7 offensive doesn't make haiku, flag declined

user55340

9

A: Choosing the right Design Pattern

A key misconception in today's coding world is that patterns are building blocks. You take an AbstractFactory here and a Flyweight there and maybe a Singleton over there and connect them together with XML and presto, you've got a working application. They're not. Hmm, that wasn't big enough. ...

user55340

And you can see me switching to familiar tone there.

gnat

@MichaelT not a bad post overall by the way. Despite mixed style (pity that I'm outta regular votes for today, too:)

user55340

8:19 PM

@gnat Nope. Not bad... I wouldn't have written it that way if I thought it was. I played with that style on E2 when writing there. The "get the person to read"

user55340

everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Shoot+the+moon

user55340

> In 1974, 16 people died in Phnom Penh when soldiers shoot their guns in the air during a lunar eclipse to frighten off the monkey that was thought to be eating the moon...

psst... This isn't the topic that you're supposed to write about...
Oops... Take 2...

Shooting the moon is when you try to take all the points in a hand when the object normally is to avoid... why are you looking at me that way? Oh... photography... right... Take 3...

MetaFight

@gnat, re: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/231641/… , I'm assuming the edges are directed edges?

user55340

everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/mass

user55340

> Mass is a fundamental property of the Catholic Church - a measurement of how much...

psst - you were supposed to do a physics writeup
Ok... Take 2...

user55340

8:22 PM

(on mass)

MetaFight

lol I confused @gnat with @gat.

gnat

@MetaFight that was quite unfortunate for both of us I guess

dylanribb

8:42 PM

Can I direct subjective questions to people in here? Or will I be shunned?

Robert Harvey

This is a chatroom. Don't ask if you can ask, just ask.

enderland

@RobertHarvey can I ask if I can ask if I can ask?

Robert Harvey

Can we get some more eyes on this for possible closure?

-3

Q: What do you call a tree that grows in both directions?

What would be the technical term for a tree that grows in both the directions, starting from the root in the middle?

computer-science trees

dylanribb

So, I'm a non-CS graduate programmer, who has JavaScript, Python, and SQL knowledge. Would it be ill advised for me to learn a language like Haskell? Would my lack of theoretical academic training prove to be a huge hurdle while learning it?

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey A jerk.

@dylanribb I'm a non-CS graduate programmer, who has Language1, Language2, and Language3 knowledge. It is ill advised for anyone to learn a language like Haskell. The industry's lack of theoretical academic training prove to be a huge hurdle while making us write garbage that becomes more recognizable by learning Haskell.

Robert Harvey

8:49 PM

@dylanribb Learn Haskell for the enlightenment, and to be a better programmer in whatever languages you already use now. If you got through pre-algebra, you should be able to learn it.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Because pre-algebra has so much to do with functoids and zyglotic cartesiagories

dylanribb

@RobertHarvey I got all the way through college-level Trigonometry, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Jimmy Hoffa

@dylanribb Doesn't matter, Haskell touches on zero of the things you've seen in math. The interesting thing about it is that short of having a math degree, (nearly) no CS-grad folks have the formal basis that Haskell is predicated on. Point being, Haskellers by and large didn't go into Haskell with any more useful education that would be translatable to Haskell than you without a degree

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa No, because it demonstrates your ability to think logically.

But that's probably already demonstrated. I say this because I have a pre-algebra math background, and am pretty confident I could understand Haskell.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey ...yet you haven't learned it yet because? ;P

dylanribb

8:55 PM

So my Philosophy degree isn't going to go to waste if I learn Haskell, is what you're saying? (I know it's going to waste for other reasons)

Jimmy Hoffa

It kills me how much good engineers avoid learning this stuff because they can avoid it. Just learned colleague of mine who is genuinely a good engineer hates lambdas in C# because he can avoid them so he never got forced to learn them (his words)

@dylanribb Oh geez, philos will probably set you up better for Haskell than any CS degree...

@dylanribb lema's are philosophy things, no?

dylanribb

@JimmyHoffa Yeah. I learned about them in 3rd year Formal Logic.

Jimmy Hoffa

@dylanribb fpcomplete.com/user/bartosz/understanding-yoneda

enderland

Philosophy is great

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa No intellectual curiosity.

That's the problem with our industry nowadays. Many programmers don't care about the underlying beauty of their craft; they just want to finish writing the next Flappy Birds and become rich and famous.

dylanribb

9:02 PM

@RobertHarvey Agreed. I got into programming because I found it interesting and like solving problems. The motivation isn't really to become rich and famous. Just to understand.

Robert Harvey

cv-with-extreme-prejudice

0

Q: An error message appears when I create the controller in ASP.NET MVC4

I am used ASP.net mvc4 to create project .. I created view model named by "Course" , and created "schoolContext" file as Data Base file. but when I tried to create controller named "CourseController" using Entity Framework , it display error message : Unable to retreive metadata for "consotoUn...

c# mvc asp.net-mvc-4

dylanribb

@RobertHarvey I'm not entirely sure what close tag I should use for that one.

Robert Harvey

@dylanribb I've already put in a custom close reason. Just follow it through the dialog.

user41796

@RobertHarvey I went with OT => belongs on SO

dylanribb

@RobertHarvey Okay I'm new to this, where should I see the custom close reason?

user41796

9:07 PM

@dylanribb You need 3k rep on the site in order to be able to vote to close.

dylanribb

Ah okay.

So closing is not the same as flagging.

Gotcha

user41796

@dylanribb Nope, completely different beasts. You could flag and do a custom mod reason justifying the close; but we'll likely knock it out quickly with community members

Vishwas

i have GlassFish v1 plugin activated in netbeans yet i m not able to use it ..how can i do this?

anybody help..

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Which is what confuses me - the guy is genuinely a good engineer, good code, interested in many parts of the industry, tries to take pride in his work and come up with ways of doing things well, but something about the FP stuff it's just so foreign that people can't accept the idea that it could be good to know

user15026

I have never had someone so excited to interview me in my life.

dylanribb

9:13 PM

@JimmyHoffa Do you think a lot of people see it as a fad? I mentioned being interested in functional JavaScript to someone once and they called me a hipster.

enderland

@AshleyNunn how'd it go?

Jimmy Hoffa

@dylanribb Yeah

user15026

@enderland Very well, I think. She sounded supremely pleased with everything I said

enderland

sweet! that's a great feeling to have

user15026

Yeah, I am feeling pretty good right now. SHe also answered all my questions that I came up with

user15026

9:15 PM

and the answers were pretty decent ones

user55340

@GlenH7 guess where Sam's poking at today...

user55340

34

Q: How necessary is it to follow defensive programming practices for code that will never be made publicly available?

I'm writing a Java implementation of a card game, so I created a special type of Collection I'm calling a Zone. All modification methods of Java's Collection are unsupported, but there's a method in the Zone API, move(Zone, Card), which moves a Card from the given Zone to itself (accomplished by ...

java data-structures api-design

user55340

11

A: How necessary is it to follow defensive programming practices for code that will never be made publicly available?

Defensive programming is a very good thing. Until it starts getting in the way of writing code. Then it's not such a good thing. Speaking a bit more pragmatically... It sounds like you're right at the edge of taking things too far. The challenge (and the answer to your question) lies in und...

user55340

Hmm...

user41796

Sweet! I'm gonna get Ars'd!

Ampt

9:18 PM

@GlenH7 don't be so sure :P

user55340

Ampt is a bitter young man.

user15026

@GlenH7 Out of context, that could be....possibly less fun

user41796

@AshleyNunn yeah, but in context, sweet sweet repz. Please upvote my answer if you haven't already. (shameless plug)

user15026

@GlenH7 giggles Yeah, I figured it would mean a nice rep boost.

user41796

Is it bad to pull my up vote from the 2nd answer so I can over take his and get more repz?

Ampt

9:20 PM

@MichaelT Sure can be, yep!

user41796

@Ampt How's the jogging coming along? :-P

user41796

I hear jogging is a good stress reliever.

Ampt

@GlenH7 Great! Thanks for your interest!

enderland

you guys are making me feel guilty about not exercising b/c I've been sick. thanks. :P

Ampt

@enderland You might be better off not revealing anything among this crowd apparently haha

Jimmy Hoffa

9:25 PM

@dylanribb People call anything that's new to them a fad in this industry. It's ad hominem. Makes them feel better about avoiding learning it. FP is old as dirt though so it doesn't ring true, OO should have been a 90's fad, but unfortunately we're stuck with it

user41796

@enderland Hope you feel better soon. @Ampt why are you so bitter today? ;-)

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Teenage angst.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa He's doing amazingly well at not responding to your obvious troll baiting.....

user55340

@GlenH7 Gotta remember, his favorite number is now 4.97

2

dylanribb

@GlenH7 Is troll baiting where the troll provides the bait or where you provide the bait for the troll?

user41796

9:34 PM

@dylanribb yes

user55340

@AshleyNunn btw, always remember to check out the bathrooms the employees use. (Former employer had turnstiles to make sure you punched out while you relieved yourself) - however, if you ever see trenchescomic.com/tales/17046 RUN!

enderland

@GlenH7 the worst part is I'm not actually sick enough to be "legitimately" sick

I just have not felt 100% for a few wekes

user15026

@MichaelT I will run fast and run far.

user41796

@enderland A good long bike ride should burn that out of you

dylanribb

@MichaelT Sounds like that building needed to be burned down after that.

enderland

9:40 PM

@GlenH7 I actually bought a stationary bike and am planning on spending about an hour on it tomorrow morning

so hopefully you are right :D

Jimmy Hoffa

Am I missing classifiers on graphs in my answer here? I go over directed/undirected and cyclic/acyclic

0

A: What do you call a tree that grows in both directions?

There's a couple simple categories you can fit graphs into that makes it easier to classify them. Directed: This is a graph wherein you have parent-child relations that are one way, that is the child may not directly reference the parent Undirected: This is a graph wherein you have node-node re...

Can't think of other classifications of graphs off hand...

Ah balanced, duh

gnat

@dylanribb you got to be kidding. Bleh-tag is made exactly for stuff like that!

Bleh! Leave this for Robert to deal with.

Nov 21 '13 at 20:08, 3 minutes total – 6 messages, 3 users, 1 star

Bookmarked Nov 23 '13 at 23:58 by MichaelT

Bleh! Leave this for Robert to deal with.

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