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user15026
12:00 AM
Yeah, loops are generally terrific things.
 
enderland
enderland
huh, 311. getting better
 
user15026
Aww, now you are beating me
 
enderland
enderland
4 circles all on one side of the river by themselves. this is going to end poor
 
user15026
@enderland That is just rude of it.
 
enderland
enderland
wait one is on the other side, just in line with the other 3
 
user55340
12:04 AM
 
user55340
The eastern end of blue is what got me there. Green line is a 'special' line that hit the non-original stations because those got pooled up on stations otherwise.
 
enderland
enderland
seriously I had 6 circles and one triangle all on one side of the river, wtfhax
still got to 270 though I guess
 
 
6 hours later…
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
6:01 AM
0
A: Avoid code repetition in CRUD operations

Robert HarveyIf you're not already using an ORM, you're probably doing it wrong, because you're not taking advantage of the leverage that an ORM can provide to the practice of writing CRUD methods. However, there's a bit of history to all this, so I'm now going to tell you a little bedtime story. In the beg...

 
 
2 hours later…
Christoph
Christoph
8:11 AM
I need widgets help (again):
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/229627/how-to-manage-focus-for-a-small-set-of-simple-widgets
Is anyone here experienced in developing widgets?
 
 
4 hours later…
Christoph
Christoph
11:56 AM
I guess I cannot even explain how I want my application to behave exactly. That's frustrating given that I thought I had figured out all the "hard" parts
 
 
3 hours later…
user55340
2:56 PM
@enderland heh - hot question:
 
user55340
37
Q: A coworker beat me to resignation. How can I resign in a professional manner?

sr-ixI began work at a medium-sized startup that neglected to inform me of their impending acquisition. It is possible that it had to be kept secret due to legal reasons, but the fact of the matter is I was interested in this position for the environment of fast development free from large-scale corpo...

professionalism job-offer resignation
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
lol
 
user55340
Previous employer, mobile app team, the sr. programmer went to the team lead to give him a heads up prior to giving the 2 weeks notice to the manager.
 
user55340
The team lead said to the sr, "Well, I've got to tell him something too..." They gave their notice within 15 min of eachother.
 
enderland
enderland
man it's a downvote party every day now for me
 
user55340
3:31 PM
@enderland P.SE is shaping up to be that way today too.
 
user55340
3:49 PM
Offline for maintenance? Unscheduled downtime?! oh noes!?!!1!?
 
gnat
gnat
8
A: Unable to ask a question on stack overflow

Nick CraverWe are having issue with a deploy at the moment and are working hard to fix it as soon as possible. A build fixing out this particular issue is going out in a moment.

 
user55340
@gnat So they ask here instead?
 
user55340
-1
Q: Compair two files in Perl

efficasyso everyday I generate one file.. and has data structure like below.. abcdef|723a0e4df8d5b20132396026e7d0c533|2013:07:15:14:36:33 xyzef|347c5f926c681dbbf7c501196f22f58f|2012:02:02:11:25:40 pqrst|1dcbdda56704c1086ac3fcbc5a1f019d|2012:02:02:11:25:40 next day i have a similar file... what i would...

perl
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT my LQ flag and comment is stuck on that. :) But looking at asker profile, it is quite likely they're q-banned at SO
recent push to flush SO close queue probably triggered a lot of Q-bans
 
user55340
Possibly. Though everyone is 'kind of' question banned and answer banned on SO at the moment.
 
enderland
enderland
3:59 PM
@MichaelT I'm going to catch gnat soon at this rate. finding myself not hardly voting any content up on TWP....
 
user55340
@enderland You generalist serial downvoter!
3
 
user55340
-1
Q: Does a script exist to reverse serial downvotes that aren't targeted at a specific user?

EmracoolThe serial downvoting prevention mechanism reverts downvotes by users who appear to be targeting a specific user. Are there also protections against users who suddenly mass-downvote questions or answers regardless of user (i.e. downvoting 40 front-page questions)? I don't mean users who downvot...

discussion serial-voting
 
gnat
gnat
@enderland there's a long way to go...
with down-votes on 4,587 deleted posts (as of 2 months ago) I feel like Pale Horse Rider — gnat Mar 13 '13 at 8:33
 
user55340
What about the gnat / enderlan vote ratios at TWP?
 
gnat
gnat
deathmatch!
 
user55340
4:08 PM
@RobertHarvey We really need the "not good enough to migrate" close reason to make it easy to select that instead of the 'belongs on ${site}' migration path. Just too easy to try to migrate when its there (and I do acknowledge that I'm guilty of this).
 
gnat
gnat
enderland: 1,287 up, 833 down | gnat: 6,118 up, 1,918 down
 
user55340
Sometimes its challenging to put more work into a close reason (even copying it from another post) than the asker has done on their own question.
 
user55340
Other times its a "this really belongs over there" push that the person needs to realize "ask the questions over there instead" even if they aren't... good.
 
user55340
Part of the bit with SO is that if they're already question banned on the target site, a migrate is a 'better' option than one of the other canned because it won't go in the first place and we get to say with confidence "you are question banned, fix that, this is off topic here"
 
user55340
I wonder if it would be possible to add a "belongs on another site, but isn't of sufficient quality to migrate" to all the sites as an option under the off topic migrate list.
 
user55340
4:12 PM
(so its not a custom reason)
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
It's probably closable under some other reason. "Too broad" or "Unclear" would still fit.
But migrating such a question to another site is a failing of etiquette. "You can have it, so long as it's not in my backyard."
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
1
A: How does persistence fit into a purely functional language?

Jimmy HoffaYou're trying to put space into your IO intensive application for all the non-IO activities; unfortunately typical CRUD apps like you talk about do little other than IO. I think you understand the relevant separation fine, but where you're trying to place the persistence IO code at some number o...

 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I doubt that a new close reason would fix that.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@jozefg What do you think of my commentary there?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
People seems to conflate DDD with software development.
The real question is if a functional language like Haskell could even be used adequately for a CRUD app, without ripping a hole in the universe.
2
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:21 PM
@RobertHarvey Easily, go cabal install yesod and you can have a scaffolded MVC CRUD website running just as quickly as getting a rails or ASP.NET MVC scaffolded app up.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Yeah, but will it blend?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey ...blend? It'll be your conventions-based idiomatic MVC site just like rails or ASP.NET
you create views and controllers and models and the framework ties it all together
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Without causing a tear in the fabric of space-time?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey Oh, sorry I misunderstood; no. The world as we know is will be destroyed. I'm only speaking of the theory of yesod, of course.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Yeah, I think they outlawed Monad Star Drives years ago.
The SE devs must be saying to themselves this morning "I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue."
 
user55340
4:25 PM
@RobertHarvey I believe that if it is an option under the migration panel, it would remind people "don't migrate crap" and give a close reason right there.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Or simply the words Don't Migrate Crap under the "This belongs on another Stack Exchange site" option.
 
user55340
0
Q: Add a "don't migrate crap" migration 'path' to all sites

MichaelTDon't Migrate Crap This is the golden rule of migrations. And we do it far too often. I'll even admit to it. Its sometimes difficult to justify to one's self to spend more time drafting a custom off topic reason to say it when it is more work than the OP has spent putting into writing the que...

feature-request migration close-reasons
 
user55340
(its headed in the right direction: +3/-0)
 
user55340
4:43 PM
 
user55340
(I even got someone favoriting it! Now, as long as they aren't using favs as a way to track what they want to vtd later... I wonder who that is...)
 
enderland
enderland
@RobertHarvey we watched dozens of those videos my senior year since a project we had was for a blender. good tmies
 
user55340
(vote : view ratio = +10 : 28 -- thats a moderately useful metric on how MSO things will be accepted... early vote : view ratio -- 1/3 of the viewers are upvoting it.)
 
enderland
enderland
5:06 PM
@MichaelT that would be an interesting stat to see over time
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
If the Work includes a "NOTICE" text file as part of its distribution, then any Derivative Works that You distribute must include a readable copy of the attribution notices contained within such NOTICE file, excluding those notices that do not pertain to any part of the Derivative Works, in at least one of the following places: within a NOTICE text file distributed as part of the Derivative Works; within the Source form or documentation, if provided along with the Derivative Works; or, within a display generated by the Derivative Works, if and wherever such third-party notices normally appe…
Software licenses make my head explode.
Every software license should include a "this is what it means in plain English" section. Except for the GPL. The GPL is incomprehensible no matter what language you use to describe it.
 
Phil
Phil
@MichaelT I have a question for your answer here: programmers.stackexchange.com/a/231943/7935
I see how a lot of your downsides are pretty big, though I wonder about a couple of them. For example, the clean upgrades bit and the users adding a column name that's a reserved word.
If your database is designed like this, where your attribute table only has one single column, i don't see upgrades being a problem simply because you'd never upgrade that table. Would you say that's a naive assumption on my part?
 
user55340
+-------------+   +------------+
|thing        |   |thing_attr  |
|-------------|   |----------- |
| id          |<--+ id (pk&fk) |
| type        |   |            |   <-- room for more columns
| desc        |   |            |
+-------------+   +------------+
 
Phil
Phil
ah yeah, sorry. i'm in IRC mode, not stackexchange mode
 
user55340
You've still got the meta-programming in order to find out the information about the columns.
 
Phil
Phil
5:14 PM
right, yeah that's definitely a downside
i don't question that part
however i was also thinking that the extra columns could be set up in a configuration file by a power user, and we can remove much of that meta programming by referring to the config file
 
user55340
You might be able to get away with it. It still feels awkward.
 
user55340
Question is - what do the extra columns map to in your model? How do they map to it?
 
Phil
Phil
the extra columns would just be extra information about the thing. there wouldn't be any foreign keys or constraints or anything
just one line in the attribute table maps directly to one thing in the thing table, and a simple join would give us all the custom info we need about that thing
 
user55340
Say you're using Java. I'm using hibernate and have a class that has annotations that map column names to particular fields within the class.
 
user55340
But if you've got something in the model that I don't control, I can't modify the class to add the new fields... so I can't get at it. I've got to map it to something to be able to access it in Java.
 
Phil
Phil
5:18 PM
ah. yeah one thing you correctly assume in your answer is that i've more-or-less abandoned the ORM
in particular i'm using dapper
 
user55340
And if I add a new field in the .java file, it needs to be recompiled and deployed to work with the new data.
 
Phil
Phil
which allows me to write my raw SQL
and i can manually control how the results of a query are materialized into model objects
 
user55340
And you're doing things like 'select * from thing_attr'?
 
Phil
Phil
so i'd have a public IDictionary<string, object> GetAttributes() or something of the like
select * is an option
or i can get the column names from the config file
 
user55340
But now you've got an Object object... that is not type safe to be throwing around.
 
Phil
Phil
5:20 PM
correct. another downside.
however usually object.ToString() is sufficient
i'll probably also have the type information in the config file, so while it's not type-safe, i can still work with it
and that problem really isn't avoided by the EAV model either
 
user55340
I'm not going to say its much better, but Postgres has a json data type and functions to work in the data in the column: postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/functions-json.html
 
user55340
The thing is that while the EAV is far from ideal, it is understood and does solve some problems.
 
Phil
Phil
that's nice. i imagine it would be hard to query by json objects though
 
user55340
One big one is that you don't need DDL to be able to manipulate it.
 
user55340
@Phil Its non-trivial, but it exists.
 
user55340
5:24 PM
(and its also database specific... so give up that if you want to be able to deploy to Oracle and Postgres)
 
Phil
Phil
i was also thinking that since i've abandoned the ORM, it might be relatively easy for me to create the necessary DDL for the different vendors and just use abstraction there
 
user55340
But then, creating DDL is also database specific... so thats a wash too.
 
Phil
Phil
so i'd have an ICreateTableCommand interface or something like that, and then the MSSQLCreateTableCommand and PostgresCreateTableCommand, etc.
 
user55340
In the applications that I've worked on where there are DBAs who look at what you are doing, there are 3 users: schema owner for doing DDL changes, write user for the web apps that do writes (sometimes one user/webapp) and read user for things that need to do reads (again sometimes one user/app).
 
user55340
No program user ever gets DDL access.
 
Phil
Phil
5:26 PM
interesting
 
user55340
There's no reason for a webapp to be able to issue the command "alter table" ever.
 
user55340
And once they have schema access, they can do anything they want to the schema.
 
Phil
Phil
hm. that actually sounds like the biggest problem so far
the clients i'm targeting will probably be in a bigger, more formal IT environment than i currently am
 
user55340
By restricting the user to what they need and only what they need, if something is hacked there is as small a surface as possible to be exploited.
 
Phil
Phil
i wonder if it would be reasonable for an admin to create the database with software i give them, and then the actual web application wouldn't touch the schema after that
 
user55340
5:29 PM
Sure, you hacked the webapp that handles customer facing bug tracking. Good for you. But you know what, you can only read 3 tables in that database. No write access.
 
user55340
@Phil Possibly. Though you could also use an EAV and give them an admin ability to modify the attr table with that webapp...
 
Phil
Phil
true. the EAV still doesn't sound like a great option... i may have a lot of custom attributes for a lot of things...
 
user55340
Consider also... sometimes people like to run sql against your application (I did it with bug tracking apps I've deployed) to be able to write my own reports. I'd hate to have my query break because someone added (or removed) a column from a table.
 
Phil
Phil
but it sounds like the safest option
 
user55340
 
Phil
Phil
5:32 PM
yeah
oy
 
user55340
Notice the Custom fields in the upper left corner.
 
user55340
custom_fields and custom_values is that EAV part.
 
user55340
There's an admin tool to be able to modify custom_fields. And then the data is stored in custom_values
 
user55340
@enderland +15, 48 views. Holding steady at about +1 for every 3 views so far.
 
Phil
Phil
it's good to see a real-world example. still looks hairy, but i don't think i have much of a choice.
 
user55340
5:36 PM
Its hairy to a point in that its a well understood hair.
 
Phil
Phil
@MichaelT thanks for letting me pick your brain a bit.
 
user55340
A DBA will look and go "ug, an EAV table..." but they won't go "WTF is this table with only a foreign key and no columns?!"
 
user55340
@Phil all that said, make sure you read simple-talk.com/opinion/opinion-pieces/bad-carma
 
user55340
And an important takeaway from that is "you job is to write useable software, not usher in a new world of another database pattern".. sure you can do that... but thats not your job.
 
Phil
Phil
word. i'd still like to try my idea, though on a personal project or something. definitely not ready for DBAs in enterprises
 
user55340
5:41 PM
Proof of concepts are a great thing to do and personal projects a great way to do it... if nothing else so that years down the road when some young upstart kid (;-) says they've got a great new idea, you can point to things and say "it didn't work quite so well" or "yep, but keep these things in mind."
 
enderland
enderland
@MichaelT you want a basic database question? :)
 
user55340
@enderland shoot...
 
enderland
enderland
so I have a main Projects table - there are a handful of project types, with information unique to each type of project (say projects of type A, B, and C)
I am intending to make each of A/B/C their own table for that project type information
but there is also more information common to all of A/B/C - I was planning on making another table, say for Images, which links against these project information tables
but then I realized... should I be doing this? it seems I should be linking this vs the main Projects table, not the specific project request tables
 
user55340
Do you query the common things separate from the other tables?
 
enderland
enderland
hmmm. no
well not currently...
 
user55340
5:53 PM
If you do want to be able to say something like "give me all the objects in all the tables, just the titles" and a query like select id, title from common then go for it.
 
enderland
enderland
my image table is going to more or less have a "ProjectsID" column and some sort of "image type" column, too
I don't know if I care about that so much as being able to have the information captured in the database
basically meta information for a project of differing types (yeah, in the future someone should care to do queries/etc but... :)
 
user55340
 +----------+        +-----------+
 | common   |        | proja     |
 |----------|        |-----------|
 | id       |<---+---+ id        |
 | title    |    |   | a_field   |
 | desc     |    |   | a_field   |
 |          |    |   |           |
 |          |    |   |           |
 +----------+    |   +-----------+
                 |
                 |   +-----------+
                 |   | projb     |
                 |   |-----------|
                 +--+| id        |
                     | b_field   |
 
enderland
enderland
yeah
 
user55340
Not a bad design.
 
user55340
You'd want to make a view that is proja+common and projb+common
 
enderland
enderland
5:56 PM
yeah, that's the ideal situation, course access will wreck those aspirations
 
user55340
Well, we can pretend you're using a real database.
 
enderland
enderland
my plan is to have forms which show each projABC info separately and a "master" which is all the common info
@MichaelT I am using SQL :)
 
user55340
I can use SQL with a csv "database"... but its not a real database.
 
enderland
enderland
don't crush my dreams :'(
 
user55340
 
enderland
enderland
5:57 PM
I meant more the backend is on SQL Server
 
user55340
(whee!)
 
user55340
@MichaelT Thanks for the thorough and detailed explanation! I was doing something similar to EAV without knowing what it was. Now I have a subject to read up on. I'm probably going to just take the time and communicate with my wife :) to nail down the schema as much as possible, but still use a few user defined fields just to experiment and get some experience with the EAV approach. It's a small manageable project and we can always change as we go without impacting a real customer with real money. — zako42 2 mins ago
 
user55340
(and +20 with 56 views... sticking with the 1:3 ratio)
 
user55340
Also, no comments. Thats kind of a good thing too in that people don't feel that its necessary to clarify it.
 
user55340
@enderland But anyways... the approach is an acceptable one. You won't get many WTFs with it. It will be easy to add a project type D if you ever need to.
 
enderland
enderland
6:01 PM
I'm sure there will be plenty of WTFs for other reasons
I wish I had taken a class in database design
instead of just some really basic stuff. Going to look over this project afterwards with some serious WTFness
 
user55340
I admit that I was very fortunate to have my formative sql days working closely with some DBAs who were very particular about having them be used as properly and efficiently as possible.
 
enderland
enderland
yeah not having any technical mentorship is the #1 problem in my current role
 
user55340
There was that brown bag series that we had that was DBAs and programmers where each showed the other their own best practices and how things worked.
 
user55340
The DBAs did one with what looked to be simple queries and how the data was accessed (explain plan) and how indexes and foreign keys sped it all up.
 
enderland
enderland
I'm also designing this databse knowing I'll probably be the only person to write a single query against it
one thing I'm finding obnoxious is my inconsistent plural/singular in table names, doh
 
psr
psr
6:17 PM
@Phil I think it would be possible to create a separate database schema that has nothing else except the things your app creates with DDL at run-time. Your app could have DDL rights to that schema only. You could still reference both schemas in your SQL (and sprocs). I think. I wouldn't bet my house on it.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
WAT
Yeah, like I'm gonna trust you with my banking information.
 
psr
psr
@RobertHarvey I also hate when users don't take the time to even come up with a name.
 
Phil
Phil
@psr I smell what you're steppin in. I'll consider that, thanks.
 
user55340
@psr another database means uglyniess with cross-database joins. And things can still get ugly broken when people do nasty things in the DDL... 'create user ...' is a DDL statement.
 
psr
psr
@MichaelT Yes, I'm not sure if you can lock down the DDL permissions reasonably or not. I'm sure the details will be quite database specific. But it might not be dead on arrival due to security concerns.
 
user55340
6:31 PM
If you were doing it inhouse, maybe not. But if it was a "here's a solution to install" that requires that you enter the schema owner / user for a schema that was created for this user, I'd be wary.
 
psr
psr
@MichaelT As you should. It might also have to be "this needs its own database server to run because your crazy to put other stuff on the same machine". The problem is that when it comes to user defined fields in a database all your options are bad, so you still might consider it for some use cases.
 
Phil
Phil
Amen on "all your options are bad"...
 
user55340
@psr Yep. They are all bad. The best approach then is likely to chose the most mainstream one that is well understood in hopes that the next person to touch the software will also understand it and be able to use and extend it with the minimal amount of additional work.
 
psr
psr
@MichaelT You would say EAV is most mainstream?
 
user55340
I've seen it in a number of applications that I've installed where its customizable (user defined fields).
 
Phil
Phil
6:40 PM
how do DBAs in larger orgs prefer to have their databases created? would the developer/vendor hand them an SQL script every time, or would they allow a compiled program to create the tables?
 
psr
psr
I would guess EAV is most mainstream, but it's hard to know.
 
Phil
Phil
from all the searching i've done, EAV is the only way people do custom fields
well, i guess some may use blobs or json, but EAV is much more popular (for obvious reasons)
 
user55340
@Phil I've seen both. Having the install application do it has the nice bit that it can detect what the version of the database is and do the upgrade appropriately.
 
Phil
Phil
so if my installer knows what custom fields to create, i can do all that upfront and not worry about schema permissions
 
user55340
The installer would have access to create/alter tables in the schema, but the webapp wouldn't run as that user.
 
Phil
Phil
6:44 PM
right. but if the table is already created with all the custom fields it needs, it would only need to do standard select/insert/update/deletes
 
user55340
It could (for example) look to see what tables exist and say "none? create everything from scratch". Or "there's a version table? select version from current_version - ahh, this is 2.1. To do a 2.1 to 2.5 upgrade I need to do this..."
 
Ampt
Ampt
sounds like a rake task to me!
 
user55340
@Ampt Yep.
 
psr
psr
@Phil If you need custom fields but know them at install time then that would work.
 
Ampt
Ampt
migrations woooooooooooo
 
user55340
6:47 PM
Typically, they would leave the rows of the EAV table untouched, though they might add columns to the tables if necessary to add new functionallity.
 
Ampt
Ampt
My algorithms teacher just emailed us a link to eric lipperts blog as required reading lol
guess which post it was.
 
user55340
@Ampt you might want to suggest that school of mimes link too back to him.
 
user55340
 
Ampt
Ampt
@MichaelT her, and I will
 
user55340
7:01 PM
14
A: Trolling the troll

mniipHaskell Check this manual page, removeDirectoryRecursive deletes a directory with all of its contents! import System.Directory main = return (removeDirectoryRecursive "/")

 
psr
psr
7:37 PM
@MichaelT Trying to write a Micro-ORM that supports user defined fields decently would be a cool personal project.
 
user55340
@psr Yep. It would.
 
user55340
Though its one with a bit of thin ice in places.
 
psr
psr
Oh please, how hard can an ORM be? Actually, the reasonable thing to do would be to find a simple ORM that you like and add support for UDFs (I would be interested to see if going DDL would work). The "good" news is that the state of the art for UDFs is so bad that the bar isn't set that high.
 
user55340
Hmm... I answered a question and got > 100 rep on P.SE today. I asked a question on MSO and I'm not too far from a repcap from that question.
 
psr
psr
@MichaelT Ah, looked at your EAV answer. I do think, for some use cases I've actually seen, every one of your (legitimate) objections to doing it dynamically can be addressed. But it would be a rare project indeed that makes sense to try this out on the company's dime.
 
user55340
7:51 PM
@psr Yep. Though if I was faced with something that really wanted to be a giant EAV database I'd drop relational and move over to an appropriate nosql one where thats how its supposed to work.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@psr True. UDFs are terribly supported. I've used a lot of user defined table types as parameters in MSSQL with ADO.NET to execute sprocs with a datatable as the parameter, and you have to just manually name the data table object and fields and type them just so etc so it perfectly matches the UDT. Pretty hackneyed crap. If you put functionality like that into an ORM, would be interesting to see where you could automatically turn certain calls into single-execution UDT calls as opposed to
looped executions. All under the covers.
imagine if ORMs did merge operations for you using UDTs instead of what they always do now which is iterated single-executions
 
psr
psr
8:08 PM
@JimmyHoffa Strange no one appears to have tried solving this before. Or more likely not even a body was ever found.
 
user55340
@enderland creeping up on +1/2views. +29/70
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
8:22 PM
2
A: Warn when migrating a question to a site the poster may have re-asked on

Robert HarveyMost questions that are asked on the wrong site shouldn't be migrated anyway. The question that is well-written, adequately researched and clearly answerable, but just happens to be posted to the wrong site, is a rare bird indeed. Rather than flagging down mods to get questions migrated, most ...

 
user55340
@RobertHarvey it appears that on SO if the flag is in the form of poetry it gets faster attention than one that is in prose. However, haikus fair poorly on the spectrum of poetry.
 
Ampt
Ampt
8:43 PM
@MichaelT you'd be thrilled, my professor is waxing poetic about intelliJ
 
user55340
@Ampt Heh. It really is a good program.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@MichaelT I just rolled my eyes and thought about the 5 cents I should be getting
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
9:08 PM
The architect wears no hat, but rather envisions an abstract head protection system. — Jon Raynor 1 hour ago
He needs a very complex helmet to survive in space of course.
 
Ampt
Ampt
given the nature of the problem, that's a fairly apt description.
> Java itself doesn't support macros. On the other hand, you could pipe the source code through the C pre processor (CPP for short) just like the C/C++ compile chain does.
read that off of a SO answer... cringed so hard I think I pulled something
46
A: Can I have macros in Java source files

aioobeYou can but you shouldn't. The shouldn't part: You shouldn't because using the pre-processor is considered bad practice to start with, and the need for it has vanished in modern languages. The can part: (*) Java itself doesn't support macros. On the other hand, you could pipe the source cod...

 
user55340
I've thought about it and decided it was a real mess to try to do in a language that it wasn't appropriate for.
 
Ampt
Ampt
Yeah I just had one of those moments ("This would be an awesome macro")
something about running java source code through the cpp just doesn't sit right
it's just wrong
 
user55340
9:29 PM
Now, what you could do is write a DSL that compiles to Java. Kind of like .jsp and jspc.
 
user55340
 
Ampt
Ampt
9:42 PM
or py and pyc
only the JVM already "Compiles" your code
or optimizes it rather
isn't that the point of the JIT compiler?
 
user55340
As I understand it, JIT is Bytecode -> Machine code at runtime. And it then has additional information (runtime) available to it.
 
user55340
JSP has the workflow of: .jsp file => runtime to .java => runtime to .class => and then as if it was a regular java class from here on.
 
user55340
10:46 PM
distribution - 23 questions are about software distribution, 2 questions are about number distribution. What should the 2 questions be retagged with so they don't have tag collision?
 
psr
psr
@MichaelT questions about question distribution should be posted under the distribution tag, not in chat.
 
amon
amon
@MichaelT statistics?
 
user55340
11:27 PM
@amon Statistics is its.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@psr meta.distribution.programmers.stackexchange.com
 
user55340
@amon I've got a starter down for it now. programmers.stackexchange.com/tags/distribution/info
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn its taunting me!
 
user55340
 
user55340
Three triangle stations in a row that are fairly stuck there, and three circle stations (that did get a square just now.
 
user55340
11:39 PM
(and it put a 4th circle down near blue...)
 

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