The Whiteboard

user55340

12:00 AM

I'm going with hanlon's razor on this one... and the cult of nosql.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Maybe some day I'll convince someone to fund a startup and hire all of you to write Clojure or some such.

user55340

@FrostEngineer Kickstarter!

user20683

@MichaelT One tiny problem, need a good idea

user20683

so therefore domain experience

user55340

Kickstart proposal: We just want to write some clojure code. Stretch goal: $1M you get to tell us what this code does.

user20683

12:01 AM

plus I'm rather young to be founding a startup that isn't an anomaly

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer whoa whoa whoa, careful now. Statements like that and you'll have idea men popping up through the amorphous spaces between atoms.. that bequest right there was every idea man's wet dream 'oo new college grad wants ideas??'

user20683

@JimmyHoffa The good idea would need to my own :)

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer But no check it out, they have this really great idea just listen you can have it then it is yours see! boom!

user20683

@JimmyHoffa uh huh click

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer just for the heck of it, do a troll-check on that guy, see if his source fits with any known actors... He seems really trollish - and too good at it for this to be his first outing

psr

12:04 AM

@JimmyHoffa You can do all the work and if it makes a ton of money you can have some of it!

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr ooo I love this idea already!?!

psr

@JimmyHoffa Already? That's the whole thing.

user20683

Not so far as I know

Jimmy Hoffa

he's good, he got a close vote and a downvote retracted

user55340

@FrostEngineer you know the other mods love trying to follow conversations under deletion.

enderland

12:09 AM

@MichaelT just write a script to delete all your comments right before the cutoff

then the mods can write one which shows them all

begun, the script wars have

user20683

So I've got a history question that might fly

user55340

@enderland deleted messages don't show up in the transcript... and I kind of do like having all the stars on the day for my insightful comments.

user20683

Why do there seem to be so many web frameworks that appeared in 2008?

user20683

because there seem to be a great many

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer List?

user20683

12:10 AM

Dojo

user55340

Unfortunately, @YannisRizos stopped by today and said somethings (but didn't finish his story!) so I don't have all the stars.

user20683

Stripes

user20683

more it seems there were many books on those frameworks published in 08 and basically nothing since then

user20683

wait...

user20683

last year before Smartphones got huge

user20683

12:11 AM

and Stack Overflow launched

Jimmy Hoffa

You mean javascript frameworks

> Developer(s) Google Inc.
> Initial release September 2, 2008

Google Chrome

Google Chrome is a freeware web browser It was first released as a beta version for Microsoft Windows on September 2, 2008, and as a stable public release on December 11, 2008. Net Applications has indicated that Chrome is the third-most popular web browser when it comes to the size of its user base, behind Internet Explorer and Firefox. StatCounter, however, estimates that Google Chrome has a 39% worldwide usage share of web browsers, making it the most widely used web browser in the world. In September 2008, Google released the majority of Chrome's source code as an open source pr...

user20683

ah that too

user55340

Java frameworks... its in the days of EJB 3.0.

user55340

Things started to get formalized enough that consistency between systems where important with the EJB 2.0 days. Soap, message driven jms, xml... that was in 2003. It took awhile to get to 3.0 from there.

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer lots of people were webifying things in hopes of getting on the mobile bandwagon as well I'm sure

user20683

12:13 AM

yeah

user55340

And Java started getting annotations accepted as mainstream.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Yeah, 2008 is a time in my mind of standard quality on web techs just kinda of solidifying as well... This is when WCF really hit it off in .NET

new version of ASP.NET which finally included AJAX came out in 2008

lots of these techs were more open-source wishy washy before around then

psr

@FrostEngineer I thought they would happen before 2008. You need a certain amount of browser capability and compatibility for it to really work I guess. Until then it's often better to drive from the server.

user55340

Things finally got to the point where you knew how systems could talk to each other with reasonable confidence... and than frameworks built on that.

Jimmy Hoffa

dunno the cause. Just happenstance, those things baked long enough basically

user20683

12:15 AM

2 years of jQuery at that point

Jimmy Hoffa

all the spark for the stuff you refer to started years before @FrostEngineer around '01-'03

user20683

@JimmyHoffa When the DotCom bubble went pop

Jimmy Hoffa

guess by '08 it just kind of baked in industry long enough

everyone took it out of the oven

user55340

The other bit was that while EJB 2.0 was a step forward... EJB 3.0 wasn't what people wanted to see. It was still cumbersome to try to program that way.

psr

@JimmyHoffa Thus I thought it would happen sooner.

Jimmy Hoffa

12:15 AM

@psr Yeah so did lots of folks

user20683

Ruby 1.9 shows up in very late 2007

Jimmy Hoffa

@FrostEngineer When the bubble went pop web tech kinda got less muddled.. the confetti hit the floor and you could see what was still left standing amongst the rabble

user20683

Yeah

user20683

I remember the initial phase of that bubble, I was living in Palo Alto when it happened

psr

Maybe IE6 had died enough by 2008.

user20683

12:17 AM

suddenly many of my family's friends and my schoolmates became very wealthy

user55340

And you decided to turn to religion? ;-)

user20683

@MichaelT that's a long story best told over booze.

Jimmy Hoffa

Do you mean to say you're going on a bender tonight?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa No. I mean to say that it's not a story I'm willing to tell on the internet

Jimmy Hoffa

I kid, though I still suggest heavy drinking on account of becoming a software engineer, need your practice

Vitamin T as Yannis calls it

user55340

12:43 AM

And there's the git commit... and I'm out

user55340

2:02 AM

@JimmyHoffa I nailed it...

user55340

Now THIS was an answer. Just went over all the topics and discarded thoughtfully what I was thinking wrongly. Thank you very much, I'll assure you I'll get my database normalization to its max and take a good look at your advice! — user111671 1 min ago

user55340

I really think it was a guy who was partially seduced by the cult of "nosql for all solutions" and just needed to be reminded that it really isn't that good for storing relational data, and if that's what he's got... use a relational database.

TRiG

in The Upper Room, 2 hours ago, by wax eagle

destroying user with toddler squirming in arms. achievement unlocked

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT The spoonfeeding request is what threw me

Guess you're right and he was more malleyable on the RDBMS point than he appeared

user55340

@JimmyHoffa I'll certainly agree that it started out... poorly. The user was confused about how to follow the advice of the nosql world for data that was relational... and if following that path, it would require a bit of... very careful design to make sure you don't screw yourself in the end with something that is improperly grouped and denormalized.

Jimmy Hoffa

2:08 AM

What do you mean? mysql is perfectly capable of handling the data you describe. — Robert Harvey 4 hours ago

@RobertHarvey Like a chat log certainly :) — user111671 4 hours ago

So what's the problem? — Robert Harvey 4 hours ago

@RobertHarvey Give me a visual representation, at large scale, of how to do this. — user111671 4 hours ago

It was that exchange right there that just tossered it for me

user55340

Picture a "I want to delete user 5 and replace 'John Smith' with 'user5' through the chat history" as part of a nosql update.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT look at his second statement, he's sarcastically disregarding someone trying to help him as if they don't know what they're talking about completely out of hand just because they suggested RDBMS

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Yep... I'll certainly give that it started out very poorly with a question that didn't have any design as part of it and was going down the wrong path.

user55340

Once he started describing his design, and the concerns with the design and that he was trying to do it in nosql for some reason... thats when it became an answerable question.

Jimmy Hoffa

Just a really...large..turn around from "RDBMS? ROFL. Whatever u say Cpn. Oblivious." to "Yeah obviously I should go RDBMS!"

(I'm still not convinced he wasn't trolling)

user55340

2:14 AM

In tracking this one down... found a neat blog post... blog.nahurst.com/visual-guide-to-nosql-systems

user55340

user55340

One of the neat things there is that if you use the AP databases as a read only data store... they do make quite nice solutions because you've made the 'C' part go away (no one is changing anything quickly)

user55340

We use our couch database for its api of storing a consistent set of read only documents to a wide number of systems that can be cached via a web cache. It does work quite nicely.

user55340

The red ones on the 'AC' set are the rdbs for comparison - they don't do well with partition tolerance. But if you're only talking about logs... unless you're really spewing data, you're never going to even need to get near that feature.

user41796

@MichaelT obligatory:

user41796

2:23 AM

►

user41796

Careful, you may end up peeing your pants from laughter on that one.

user41796

@FrostEngineer It appears you have a number of stories in that category. At some point, we're going to have to meet up and have a round or three.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Saw that ages ago, shared it with my boss a couple months ago he busted a gut (he used to work at Oracle)

user55340

yep... saw that one before...

user20683

same

user55340

2:39 AM

►

user55340

2:35

Chris last

Error 1 error C4430: missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ does not support default-int

WHY?

user55340

0

Q: missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ does not support default-int

I have a cpp file that contains the following: char const* types[] = { "char", "short", "int", "long", "float", "double", "void"}; std::set<std::string> ReservedWords; ReservedWords.insert(std::begin(types),std::end(types)); this gives an error missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ d...

c++

Chris last

but it points to a function prototype in a header file: int isRegistered(const Prefix* p, const char* str, char area[], char publisher[], char title[]);

i also get this error: Error 2 error C2143: syntax error : missing ',' before '*'

on that same prototype

user55340

No idea... I haven't touched... C++ in... well... this millennium. So... not too sure.

user20683

2:50 AM

MY C++ experience is limited to Hello World

user20683

and maybe a tad beyond that

user55340

I've worked with programmers who were born more recently than I worked with C++.

user55340

3:07 AM

(... now, if you had an Objective C question... or a classic Ansi C question (I still get confused by some of the warnings for C99))

user55340

3:20 AM

2

Q: Name for this type of programming construct/design/pattern?

Please don't chalk this up as a dumb question. This may seem very obvious to some, but it is not to me. I am working on a very, very large codebase. I continually see, in numerous classes, this pattern: public class myClass { public myClass[] doGetMyClassList(final String someParam) { ...

java design-patterns

user55340

Yep... Name that thing on SO.

psr

3:44 AM

@MichaelT I totally answered it.

0

A: Name for this type of programming construct/design/pattern?

The type signature alone doesn't tell you what pattern it is, you also need to know what it collaborates with and how it's used. It seems like it might be attempting to do the repository pattern, in which a repository class fetches collections of some other class according to parameters passed...

Ampt

4:43 AM

@GlenH7 showed my girlfriend the hi-flex cable.... she find it as cool as I did

Robert Harvey

0

Q: What intermediate representations can be used to reason about concurrency?

I am trying to better understand what would be required for a compiler to be able to make intelligent choices regarding concurrency on behalf of the programmer. I realize that there are many difficult aspects of this problem for instance: Ensuring that there are no race conditions Ensuring that...

compiler concurrency computer-science

@psr Closed as "Unclear What you are Asking."

psr

5:09 AM

@RobertHarvey Not too unreasonable.

luser droog

8:03 AM

Does anybody have Max Agoston's Computer Graphics and Geometric Modelling, vol. 1? Is it as awesome as it looks? I need some heavy-duty help with complex polygon-clipping and rasterizing, and it's exhausting tracking down all the siggraphs and cacm's. :/

I got his vol.2 by mistake, but it looks like a math-degree in a mere 1000 pages.

If vol.1 is as good, I may not need to buy a whole bunch of other books for all the details I need.

maple_shaft

1:17 PM

General Debate and Discussion: Why is there so much industry focus on programmer and developer productivity, while there is little focus on business and manager productivity in the industry?

3

I mean seriously, While that new functional programming language is cool and takes me an hour less to physically code that new routine as opposed to an imperative style, throughout my career I have had to spend many wasted hours in meetings that I didn't really need to go to, with scatter brained business people and analysts who struggle to write specifications or user stories.

I say to hell with developer productivity, I would trade it all in for even a 25% increase in analyst, manager, business person competence and productivity. They are, and always have been the ultimate bottleneck to true efficiency and productivity.

Discuss

Oh and one more thing!! By us as developers putting the focus on developer productivity, we are affirming the negative stereotype in the eyes of the business people that WE ARE THE PROBLEM. That WE are the reason that software always under delivers or is late. This only exacerbates the collective hypocritical nature of that negative stereotype

user41796

snark answer is that the ones trying to measure things never measure themselves.

maple_shaft

@GlenH7 I want that quote on a t-shirt

bravi

user41796

The slightly less snarky answer is that understanding what you want to do is hard. Many don't recognize the difficulty in taking a grandiose idea and turning it into reality. That's much more art than science. And you're not allowed to try and measure art. :-)

user41796

1:32 PM

And it may also be that "management" as a craft has been around long enough that it is presumed all of the appropriate metrics are in place. For example, you can measure a manager's employee turnover.

maple_shaft

1:52 PM

@GlenH7 Ok... let me run with your Idea as Art statement.

People tend to imagine themselves more clever and imaginative than they truly are. Most people agree that Steve Jobs was a master of this "art" where others think they are a mini Steve Jobs and yet they are not. In some cases perhaps some technical lead who goes unsung may have a true talent for that art as well and with heroic efforts are able to understand or fill in the gaps of the business where the business people have failed to have vision

In this common scenario it is easy for an imposter to be seen as an "artist" where he/she truly is not. Furthermore they begin to believe it themselves because everything happened to turn out okay in the end. We dont see this phenomenon elsewhere.

Picasso could not fool anybody with his art. It just simply was fantastic

Blaze Tama

2:14 PM

Hello :D

Is this a right place for just a chit-chat & discuss something?

luser droog

Give it a go! One can but try. Worst case: nobody has an answer. :)

@BlazeTama that was a response to you, btw. :)

Blaze Tama

LOL :D

yes, im a android developer (java), not a pro but not a beginner

now im looking for an open-source project to work with

just to fill my spare time

i tried ubunt, but they use QML and c++

luser droog

ooooo. I'm the exact opposite.

I've got an open-source project and know nothing about android.

But I think it will be more sellable if it runs on android.

Blaze Tama

wow, what is the project? :D

luser droog

The docs about JNI and XNI are just terrifying.

code.google.com/p/xpost

Blaze Tama

2:28 PM

errr..yes, the JNI is...hard

luser droog

it's a postscript interpreter.

Blaze Tama

do you have the link for the project?

luser droog

we want to use it to preview documents.

Blaze Tama

i might be interested :D

luser droog

code.google.com/p/xpost

Blaze Tama

2:30 PM

ehm....i dont really understand about the project

sorry, english is not my native language :D

luser droog

What can I explain about it?

It's a cross-platform interpreter for the postscript programming language.

Blaze Tama

hoooo

so postscript is a language

dont realize that until now :D

luser droog

It can draw in a window on windows or unix+X11

Oh yes. It's a language.

Lots of people don't know that. :)

Do you know a good tutorial for interfacing a C library with and simple android app?

Blaze Tama

i was working with ffmpeg

where i need to "fight" with JNI

but sorry, i failed that time

btw, ffmpeg is a something like video encoder

i was able to do some operation, like converting joining video and audio

but keep failing in some parts, which caused the project canceled

what im trying to say is, i might be not good at JNI

but i still willing to work with that

luser droog

ok. what are you looking for in an open-source project. I might know something.

even if it isn't mine :( :)

Or can you make an android app with just C?

Or do you have to interface somehow?

It's all a complete mystery to me.

gnat

2:51 PM

Why do people keep upvoting this low-quality answer?! It directly contradicts the post notice above: “Don't just give a one-line answer; explain why your answer is right, ideally with citations.” — Konrad Rudolph 5 hours ago

Blaze Tama

for now, i cant make android apps with C

what do you mean by "interface"?

yes, i just come and asking a lot :D

luser droog

JNI or XNI or (something else?)

Do you have to write apps in Java?

Blaze Tama

sad to be said, for now i just can use Java

by the way, do you think c++ should be mastered by all programmer?

i mean, i saw lot..lot of apps (especially open source) using c++

i know c a little bit, but dont know about c++

Chris last

can anyone help me with a c++ problem

Blaze Tama

@luserdroog sorry i need to off now, i will come back 2morrow

Thanks a lot for your help :D

@Chrislast not me :(

luser droog

3:07 PM

I have a very vague understanding of C++. But somebody might. Spill it!

luser droog

3:25 PM

@Chrislast What's the question?

Robert Harvey

5:40 PM

Hey, @Gant, @JimmyHoffa Do you guys know anything about the Command Pattern?

0

Q: How can you add acknowledgement functionality to a Command pattern, given the response from receiver is gotten asynchronously on Server?

I have a scenario where I will implement Command pattern like described in this article. Actually from an Asp.Net MVC view, some user will invoke different commands/actions like Start Live Video, Start Live Image, Start Recording etc. A Web Socket Server will then receive these commands and disp...

c# asp.net sockets command-pattern

gnat

6:05 PM

@RobertHarvey I didn't look deep but ACT (Asynchronous Completion Token) pattern as it is called in POSA 2 looks worth considering - dre.vanderbilt.edu/~schmidt/POSA/POSA2/…

dre.vanderbilt.edu/~schmidt/PDF/ACT.pdf

The
Asynchronous Completion Token
design pattern efficiently
dispatches processing actions within a client in response to the
completion of asynchronous operations invoked by the client

Real life example: FedEx inventory tracking...

An intriguing real-life example of the Asynchronous Completion Token pattern is implemented by the inventory tracking mechanism used by the US Federal Express postal services.

A FedEx Airbill contains a section labeled: 'Your Internal Billing Reference Information (Optional: First 24 characters will appear on invoice).' The sender of a package uses this field as an ACT. This ACT is returned by FedEx (the service) to you (the initiator) with the invoice that notifies the sender that the transaction has completed. FedEx deliberately defines this field very loosely: it is a maximum of 24 char…

Stack Exchange

6:48 PM

Ars Technica » Stack Exchange: How can I reject an unnecessary code review?

posted on January 11, 2014 by Stack Exchange

If a code change seems unwarranted, reviewing it could make you responsible.

gnat

7:04 PM

@StackExchange gotta hurt with bad answers, question needs to be protected: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/196022/…

Robert Harvey

7:14 PM

@MichaelShaw: What I am apparently not articulating well is this: if I had a boss that I reported to that was the Systems Architect for the enterprise application I was working on, but I found out that he didn't know the first thing about what a SQL JOIN statement meant, I would question his competence. — Robert Harvey 30 mins ago

@gnat Protection wouldn't have saved that question from the bad answers that are already there.

(including the deleted ones)

user55340

@gnat Got it.

gnat

'my favorite pattern is from MetaFilter, which is: When we start seeing effects of scale, we shut off the new user page. "Someone mentions us in the press and how great we are? Bye!" That's a way of raising the bar, that's creating a threshold of participation. And anyone who bookmarks that page and says "You know, I really want to be in there; maybe I'll go back later," that's the kind of user MeFi wants to have.' (A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy) — gnat yesterday

Robert Harvey

7:33 PM

@gnat Fair enough. But I've gotten flak from SE on Stack Overflow for protecting questions too soon, on the off chance that some important guru may wander in and want to offer some scintillating insight, only to be rebuffed because they didn't already have 15 rep.

gnat

@RobertHarvey well they have a point here. But for now, I prefer to stick with "pre-protecting", even if they may dislike it. If they ever change brainless hotness formula so that site will get less overall pressure from lemmings, I will take a second look at this and maybe reconsider. In a less stressed environment, I would be in favor of protecting after the damage was done and proven...

Robert Harvey

You and that collider. Always colliding.

gnat

though MeFi pattern and the article that suggests it will probably still be worth taken into account

@RobertHarvey big bang

Robert Harvey

8:26 PM

cv-pls

0

Q: What benefit does Y-Combinator get from backing the open-sourcing of Light Table?

Recently Chris Granger announced the Light Table IDE project which was funded by a kickstarter campaign. Chris promised to open source it. As such, I believe it only fair that the core of Light Table be open sourced once it is launched. At some level, this is an experiment in how open source...

clojure light-table y-combinator venture-capital

Chris Okyen

8:52 PM

@RobertHarvey Thanks! but theres still a problem. For my brain to come up with an automated looping that will process every combination, I still have to write out every combination first to come upo with the disign so it doesn't really save time

Don't I need a way to automate this via iteration without having to figure out every combination first and find common elements. Can I find some common elements of finding common elements to make it so I don't have to now figure out every common elements

Robert Harvey

9:41 PM

@ChrisOkyen Are you still trying to figure out that combination thing?

You're barking up the wrong tree with all those if conditions. Figure out how to code those conditions into a data structure of some kind. A list, or table. There's no way you get out of telling the program what the decisions are, but keeping those out of your code will make life much easier.

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