Hello everyone. please someone help me. Is there anyone sure what is the official rule book of Extreme Programming?

official rule book... Last time I checked, programmers aren't big on rules..

this is about my college project

I'm have to make a benchmark for a definitive comparison between XP and Scrum

scrum does have an official rule book on scrum.org

but for XP it's totally confusing

interesting, the canonical book is "Extreme Programming Explained"

though that's a stupid comparison

they're used for totally different things

You can use XP and Scrum simultaneously; the vin diagram of the two don't really have overlaps.

XP is a hand full of techniques and practices for developers when writing code, Scrum is for planning projects, organizing tasks, and monitoring progress

they're totally separate things, it's like comparing calculators and refrigerators

they may both be electrical, but that's where the similarities end

Tell the teacher that assigned you that project it's irrational and they need to give you a different assignment

and if you chose that assignment yourself tell the teacher you made a mistake because they're not comparable things

nope :D i didn't

thanks for your info

that was really helpful to me

Post a question to programmers asking "Are Scrum and XP comparable things or are they used for different things"

Then when you get an answer highly voted by professionals saying they aren't comparable, you can use that as evidence to show your teacher his assignment is irrational

good idea

Actually that question might get closed, I have no idea. @YannisRizos how would you phrase that question to make it appropriate?

I posted the question

I have no idea

Will find out, no harm in trying

That question will probably get closed like it is right now, you need to make it clear you've made effort to find out about both topics, mention what you do know about each of them.

Read this: c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeProgramming and this: c2.com/cgi/wiki?ScrumProcess so you have some understanding to show in the question.

I did

You've read both of those resources I just linked you to?

the last time I talked to my professor, he told me we're going to make our own methodology and adapt what ever useful from XP, Scrum, ... and test the methodology by developing some software

I had read that papers in advance

Oh good point World Engineer, I didn't even think there might be another question asking it... The auto-question-searcher thing that filters while you're titling your question is a life-saver for me, I never remember to search SO until I'm sitting their typing the title of my questions and see stuff coming up heh

@WorldEngineer though that question isn't the same as joker is talking about because joker's asking specifically about scrum not agile

@WorldEngineer true, if that happens I will light my own head on fire. I cannot stand all the agile = scrum misnomer

Everytime I hear it, it's like hearing someone say "Hey hey, over here, look at me! I can regurgitate buzzwords I never read anything about! Yeah hey how's it going woo, I'm an idiot who just repeats what he heard!"

nonsense, agile = agile manifesto, unless you're in industry, then 9 times out of 10 agile = that thing people said was good, so it must have been what we were doing all along amiright??

o I get it, didn't read that close heh

syntax error on that one @WorldEngineer

ask SO where it went wrong? :)

didn't you know, agile is bad, it's where you just do whatever the hell you want and nobody cares! agile's only for those dummys who are goign to be out of business in a couple months...

@Deco nah, in WE# irrelevant parens are trimmed :)

@JimmyHoffa - I'm not well versed in WE# yet it seems :P

Agile is a buzzword that really annyos me

parser combinators are so awesome... I've been pondering the idea of writing one that would allow me to stop writing some of the pointless verbosity in C# and fills the redundant noise in for me...

Agile as a buzzword really annoys me

Agile as a practice is actually quite pleasant

I recently got told by one of my bosses to "be more Agile"... when I asked "what does 'be more Agile' mean?" he couldn't answer me

as a practice, very pleasant

heh yeah I can't stand that crap either @Deco, for a knowledge-worker based industry it baffles me how little people do their research

Which brings up a question I'm curious about now.. I've thought for a while most developers probably unwittingly read quite a few pages of dry technical references every day just in the average practice of google-fu, I wonder if anybody has any ideas how much we read on a daily basis or has ever done any measures/studies... likely not but who knows

I asked a BA for the requirements for the next bit I needed to do, got told to wait for the spec with a comment of "we're doing agile now, so you only have a few weeks to implement"

I just facepalm and move on :)

haha

I'm not good about letting shit roll down my leg sometimes, I need to get better at it...

im not good at it either.. i've gotten better over the past few years though

I always try to seek out people/organizations better than I/mine to study and try to learn from, I think that just makes it worse. Plus the fact that engineering is the application of criticism and revision to a solution until it's in its simplest form, that's my explanation as to why all of us engineers tend to be reactionary professionally

Balls, @joker13 accepted an answer before I was able to post mine heh

post yours anyway

it might be good and get an upvote or two

is that too nobish?

how long should I keep a question open?

@JimmyHoffa a wild upvote appears

@WorldEngineer wow, you give a long time. I usually give my questions a day and a half before an accept or a delete of the question if nothing constructive comes of it.

Same here, I usually ask questions like "gra ma guz gub! I can't make this stupid thing work! My google-fu has failed, what is wrong with this: Console.WriteLine("stupid dumby", valueee); at which point someone gives me a fix, it works, and I accept the answer right then heh

I've stopped bothering with SO, the game over there is just a race to answer very specific technical questions asap

usually low-level stuff and lots of it is specific to a certain library in a certain framework

I much more enjoy the higher level stuff here on programmers where there's really no racing, it's someone looking for a comprehensive answer

I do however wish there weren't such a high proportion of fly-by-night first-post questions where answerers aren't chosen, but I guess that's the nature of a large community of professionals who don't have a lot of questions they can't research themselves

now that I think about it, I wonder if that's the overarching reason why there's such a disproportionate amount of bad questions here, 95% of them are first-time posters but moreover the portion of questions being first-time posters might be related to the p.se community at large not having a lot of questions they aren't proficient in answering themselves..

@gnat can you help me about ruby-on-rails on top of windows azure?

have you deployed any such project?

anybody else has the answer please

?

@joker13 nope

@JimmyHoffa That last flag of yours about moving the question to SO was nice, but it turns out that the asker is question banned on SO. In any case, it was a very helpful flag on a low visibility question, keep them coming ;)

Review is fun :)

20K rep user revenge downvoting someone that pointed out flaws in their answer. Yes, people welcome constructive criticism </lie>. Sigh... (not on ProgSE)

@MichaelT Yes, there's a script that runs daily that removes serial up/down voting. Still, revenge downvoting is nasty.

...and it's particularly hilarious when someone revenge downvotes a moderator (happened recently on Programmers), as we can see who it is (if the script catches them).

Get rid of the “don't call yourself a programmer” link in our FAQ

To be perfectly honest I haven't read it, just scanned through it quickly. A P.SE blog post would be perfect, yes. Are you volunteering? ;)

You can get the text of non deleted questions from the API, or Data Explorer. For deleted ones... well... I guess I could abuse my mod powers a bit and undelete a few for you.

I was thinking of re-working the blog ad during the weekend.

@ChrisF would you consider suspected "mini-fraud" like at above screen shot worth bringing to mod attention? Serial-voting script wouldn't (and I think shouldn't) catch stuff like that. Until recently I was certain that the right way is just to ignore but this MSO discussion made me want to re-check.

@MichaelT Heh, I interpreted your comment as "swamped at work", and it seems I was right ;)

@gnat Where's that?

Really interesting article:

The algorithm is very clever...

@YannisRizos downvotes at screen shot are at SO (I've got enough rep there too to consider it painless:)

@gnat Looks like someone is a bit angry at you, flag one of your posts for mod attention and explain the situation. You got a couple more today on old answers, it certainly looks like someone trying to stay under the radar.

The rep loss is insignificant, old and/or low visibility answers being at -1 is not.

@YannisRizos I see, thanks for advice

@YannisRizos do all those career and "what language next" questions get removed from p.se so they don't show up in question searches?

@JimmyHoffa At some point yes...

10K+ users can vote to delete closed questions, and mods obviously can delete them at any time.

@YannisRizos I just tried to put "What language should I learn next" into the title of a question and only 1 of the countless closed questions we've had came up, I wonder if a bigger deterrent would be every one attempting to ask a question like that seeing like 15 almost identical questions all of which are closed

If you went back a year and undeleted 40 of them they'd never show up on the main page or anything because of age but they would show up for people trying to repeat those questions

Though that's a lot of trash that sits undeleted on p.se which would be bad for SEO and other things I'm guessing... dunno

It just occurs to me, we've had those questions sooo many times you would think an asker would see a ton of closed questions when they try asking them

but it's not the case

People finding the site through googling similar terms would be a problem.

Yeah like I said it would be bad for SEO I'm sure, but on the other hand, how would it really hurt the site? They'd see the question is closed as off-topic..

No they don't, that's the problem. Quite a few times people tried to argue for their questions by pointing to similar closed questions.

ah

hah..

it's like they're making your straw man for you :D

Right now, for example, what appears to be an honest noob that had 3 of his questions closed, is actually a troll abusing the site with his fifth account in a row.

Weird

You referring to victor?

No, certainly not (he posted a very nice question on Meta a few minutes ago, nothing troll-y about him). And... I can't really tell, already said too much.

oh-noesss

Do the other sites get as many first-time and one-time posters as p.se?

Some do, some don't. Our traffic has been steadily growing, so there are a lot of 1 reps the past few months. Which is a good thing, it used to be that most of our new users were 101 reps (they already had SO accounts with more than 200 rep). Seeing people discovering Programmers from other sources is nice.

A sign of the quanity/quality of content p.se has crossing thresholds to make it show up on more radars I suppose, cool

Are traffic statistics in the data api's

@JimmyHoffa As far as I can tell, no.

@ThomasOwens @JimmyHoffa quantcast.com/programmers.stackexchange.com

@YannisRizos Yeah. I was just looking for that. It's not exact, but it's the best public data.

I want to say it's lagging behind actuals.

It's two days back.