Math Mods' Office - 2021-07-16

Jitendra Singh

07:56

One minute why is this flag declined mods? i.sstatic.net/NYv85.png Wasn't I supposed to flag this for mod intervention if it is bountied and missing context according to this

Nikhil Kumar Singh

09:58

@JitendraSingh Flag it for community to review after the bounty expires. Activities like closing, deletion are appropriate to be presented for community attention, rather than for moderators. By the time being, you can downvote the post which you consider low-quality and also leave a comment so that OP adds context. :)

I have also downvoted the post. It is indeed noise.

lone student

12:29

@JitendraSingh People who abuse their power usually don't do it again when they see a higher power. @dxiv answered my question. However, they wanted to humiliate me. And they succeeded.

user21820

← 1 message moved from CURED

@XanderHenderson @quid: Please take note.

quid

14:28

@JitendraSingh I had said that on can flag if the bounty is placed to avoid closure. I don't see that in that case.

@user21820 could you please be more specific.

user21820

@quid It's just an off-topic rant in CURED, and has been addressed by Xander already, so thanks.

Nikhil Kumar Singh

Just out of curiosity: Can community also delete users?

lone student

15:08

As I understand, in order for Moderator to penalize me, my comment has been reported to you. Therefore, it was reported specifically to you, not the trush room. By the way, the moderators can see that the user immediately deleted his/her absolutely rude comment about me in the cured room.

Xander Henderson

@lonestudent Where has a moderator penalized you?

TheSimpliFire

@ArcticChar @TheAmplitwist

2

27

A: Wrongfully declined flag?

Asaf has already said something like this in the comments, but I want to highlight it as an answer: If a moderator does not want to intervene, then he or she shouldn't. Declining the flag is not the same thing as not intervening. It is itself an action based on a subjective decision, not made ...

lone student

15:25

@XanderHenderson For me to be penalized. That's why the comment was moved here. The deleted comment itself is off-topic, but it wasn't moved here. And it was deleted immediately. Why is that?

TheSimpliFire

See above meta posted a decade ago (funnily it was posted by Asaf now a mod) for almost identical situation. Whilst this has been a good informative experience, I'm a bit frustrated at how no moderator responded to this discussion over the past two weeks whilst answering other requests.

Xander Henderson

@TheSimpliFire I am sorry---I have been away for the last couple of weeks. What is happening?

Can you give me the executive summary?

TheSimpliFire

@XanderHenderson Starting

Jul 2 at 7:52, by TheSimpliFire

@mods (@AlexanderGruber @XanderHenderson @quid): I flagged an answer as "not an answer" and received "declined - flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention". I did not flag for moderator intervention. I thought flagging as NAA goes to community reviewing, not moderators?

Xander Henderson

@TheSimpliFire I never decline NAA flags. As you say, these are flags which, in my opinion, should be handled by the community.

My assumption was that all of the other moderators were on the same page in this regard.

TheSimpliFire

@XanderHenderson Good (especially as you're the newest mod here), must mean some other mod has done it without further comment.

@XanderHenderson Perhaps you could mention this in the math moderator-only chat as not many mods visit here

Jitendra Singh

15:35

@quid Why does one award bounty on PSQ? So that he could avoid the closure and could get the answer and present it to the instructor. That is the case in the question I linked

Xander Henderson

@JitendraSingh It is best to assume good faith until shown otherwise. It is also possible that the person offering the bounty genuinely believes that an answer is worth a bounty, or that a question is not terrible.

Also, I don't really see a huge problem with folk putting bounties on terrible questions. It delays closure and/or deletion for a week, but ultimately does nothing other than cost some user the XP needed to offer a bounty. :\

TheSimpliFire

@XanderHenderson While in principle I agree with that, a side effect is that it incentivises users to answer these low-quality questions for points which is at odds with the aims of EoQS, for instance.

Jitendra Singh

@XanderHenderson However you would definitely know rep hunters. PSQ askers put bounty so that rep hunters could answer it. Then the Op would give the OP. The OP gain by answer, the answerer gain by bounty and the site trying to avoid PSQs mission becoming mockery

TheSimpliFire

@JitendraSingh I got there first ;)

schn

@XanderHenderson will do, good reminder!

Xander Henderson

15:44

@TheSimpliFire I don't disagree. I just really hate giving people back their XP by canceling a bounty. It frustrates me. :\

TheSimpliFire

Points are the least important issue here I think

Xander Henderson

Probably.

My preference is to use a userscript to come back to the post after the bounty has been awarded, then close the post and work toward deletion.

TheSimpliFire

Perhaps questions meeting a certain low-score threshold should not be eligible for bounties until they are improved.

Xander Henderson

@TheSimpliFire That sounds like a really good discussion for Meta SE.

Though I think that the counter argument is "But bounties can be used to draw attention to good questions which haven't had enough views to reach that score threshold."

I don't know where the balance is.

TheSimpliFire

It can be refined as obviously there are problems including that poor questions may not get upvotes post-improvement. Here I think we could open up a meta thread similar to Requests for Reopening

I realise now it has been asked before

10

Q: Prevent bounties for questions which hit a negative threshold (and auto remove if they hit this)

Situation On smaller sites, some low quality questions may be downvoted but not closed This also applies to in scope but low effort questions, such as "give me teh codez" on Stack Overflow There is no threshold for a posts score in considering a bounty A user can add a bounty to a heavily do...

Wolgwang

15:56

"The suspension period ends on May 13 '94 " refers to 2094?

TheSimpliFire

Yes

Wolgwang

Thanks.

lone student

16:27

@user21820 Moderator gave you the necessary answer. Why didn't you move your own rude comment here, even though you moved my comment here? Note that even if you delete it, moderators can read it.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson But very poor posts often have very poor titles, with users (including me) taking no interest in them (save for when they show up in the close queue, etc.) Low viewership can very well be the result of what users sense to be yet another PSQ.

@lonestudent @user21820 cannot remove comments from here. It was likely a mod that removed it.

@lonestudent please be civil. That's all that's asked of chat participants.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy No disagreement. But this is a policy which could really only be implemented network wide, and other SE sites don't have all the same problems we have.

user21820

@amWhy I moved this comment here because it was insinuating power abuse regarding moderators and completely off-topic to CURED.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Yes, I can see how long that might take.

@user21820 Oh, you moved it here? No problem.

user21820

@amWhy Yea. It's really amusing how people think they can 'threaten' me with "moderators can read it" when I am the one who invited the moderators to take a look.

2

One would think, or so I thought, that if I wanted to hide I would not have done that!

amWhy

16:38

@user21820 Indeed! Exactly, on the second comment following!

Xander Henderson

@user21820 Clearly, this is all part of your master plan.

user21820

@XanderHenderson Come on, don't muddy the waters. Sarcasm Swampland is a sticky place to step in.

amWhy

@lonestudent Flags in chat rooms are handled by network wide mods (from any/every site in the network), which math.se mods tend to not partake in. Just please be civil. If others act badly, they will be found.

user21820

@XanderHenderson 10 years later, a disgruntled SE user will take your comment as poof that I am a mastermind bent on deluding all the moderators on SE, and you knew about it but was too afraid to do anything. =P

lone student

@amWhy Do you know why I'm talking? Why are you commenting when you don't know the context? @user21820 moved my comment here. Not the trush room. We know what the point is. What I'm saying is: He/she made a pretty rude comment about me. And immediately deleted it. That comment is also off-topic. Why did he/she delete it? Moving it here should be a better idea.

user21820

16:46

@lonestudent The comment you are referring to was because you edited your comment, so my original interpretation of it was irrelevant.

amWhy

@lonestudent Drop. What I have witnessed from you today is very poor and uncivil behavior. That was a smart move by user21820, so mods can judge for themselves.

lone student

@user21820 No, I haven't edited any of my comments. This is a completely inconsistent claim.

user21820

@lonestudent That's false, and the moderators can see your edits.

amWhy

@lonestudent I'm not just concerned about you continued accusations of conspiracies. In all your conflicts, everywhere on site, there is only one common factor which would be you.

Let's not continue the same ole same ole.

lone student

@user21820 Immediately. I want my comment reviewed immediately.

amWhy

16:51

I'm not hear to arbitrate. Just to lower the volume.

@lonestudent Flag a mod. We can't do that for you; only mods can!. Chill, please?

lone student

@amWhy I'm talking to one person. Can you have the decency not to interfere, please? Thank you very much.

amWhy

@lonestudent No. The more eyeballs, the better the info for mods. This is a public chat room. You are attempting to shut me down here, which could also be flagged. But I won't. Please consider taking a break. I'm not telling you to. I just think matters will end fair for you if you calm down, think, etc.

user21820

@lonestudent: Firstly, you're not talking. You are demanding. As I said, I misinterpreted your comment. You can see the edit history yourself. Your comment, like many others, was rude and uncalled for. In the original version, I didn't even know you were talking about the "LS" thing, because I wasn't even talking to you, so I responded based on the assumption that you were complaining about "lonestudent".

There are a number of users who made such complaints before, so this is not a fanciful assumption. I realized after your edit that it wasn't what you were talking about, hence I immediately deleted my comment.

amWhy

@user21820 I think it we best not to escalate the vitriol in this room. Now I leave.

lone student

@user21820 You are saying the same thing. I didn't edit my comment containing LS. Your comment was definitely rude and you immediately deleted it.

user21820

17:00

@lonestudent You did edit it. Everyone can see the edit history.

Anyway, I've had enough. I clean up my errors when I realize them. I hope others do the same instead of going on and on and on about "abuse" and "attack". If there is no constructive discussion left, this will be my final message on this matter.

lone student

@user21820 you mean like "LS?" Wasn't it clear what I was referring to as the abbreviation of my name? Now I remember. Editing you call that?

@user21820 "your comment is ridiculous..." this is a rude comment and it deserves flag.

user21820

I already explained what I was thinking. You're free to believe what you like. Also, you can't expect to hit out at people and not get annoyed responses (even if misinterpreting you). Is it not enough that I deleted my comment made under false assumption? What do you want me to do next? Bow down? No, there is one person who started this whole thing, and said "comment is closed to discussion". Close yourself, if you don't want any responses.

lone student

@amWhy According to you it is. Not for me. The purpose of moving the comment here was simply to give me a "positive penalty".That's why the moderator said: Be specific. An off-topic comment is moved to the trush room. Not in the moderator's room.

@user21820 Well, I agree with your last comment. Also, when you said you edited the comment, I got it "You deliberately changed the context". That's why I wrote "No, I didn't edit the comment". By the way, I just remembered that I did this. I couldn't find the edit history. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Jack Gallagher

17:22

@user21820 moved your comment to this room because this room is precisely the place for you to voice the concern you voiced in CURED. Your original comment was off-topic in CURED, so there is objectively nothing wrong with @user21820's actions.

As explained previously however, the proper place for your original comment was the Reopen thread on math.meta. The proper place for a general complaint about the behavior of those on CURED is this chat room or private message to individual moderators.

amWhy

17:32

@lonestudent No one is looking to penalize you. I defer to @Jack's first comment, and support their second comment as well.

quid

18:00

@JitendraSingh I gave an answer on meta that addresses all this. Again, if there already are votes to close and then a bounty is placed you can flag. If not then not.

amWhy

@quid Boo!.

Xander Henderson

@user21820 I am sanguine with that result. :P

amWhy

18:27

@XanderHenderson ? Ahh, none of my business.

lone student

@amWhy "No one is looking to penalize you". This is just a claim. Because, the comment moved here is not related to the moderator room. There is a trush room for that. Collatz Conjecture is true. Just a claim. Have a nice day.

@JackGallagher I pretty disagree. I have a argument for that and I already explained.

amWhy

@lonestudent Please. Do not continue to pick fights here. And I think you mean the Trash room. There is no word "Trush". Have a good evening. But I'll let the moderators step up to the plate in this room. I am suggesting, only for your protection and continued engagement on this sight: please chill; please dial down your need to be rude to everyone trying to help. Cheers!

lone student