Curious. This is more of a site-wide question. We know that a moderator from, say, floralarrangements.se can come into any math.se and call, say, a discussion about the impossibility of trisecting an angle, where one user insists they've solved it, and others are working very hard to convey that they are simply mistaken, wrong, what have you, after the disappointed user flags users for being honest about their life's work, and delete whatever they want to delete, suspend users from chat, etc.

Now, said moderator may be an expert in floral arrangements, but may never have studied beyond highschool algebra and geometry, and may have absolutely no idea why it is absurd to suggest, after being explained multiple times, that an angle can be trisected. But because "it seems mean/not-nice" to disappoint a wanna-be expert on trisecting angles, they have the misinformation as well as the power, to forbid users from disappointing the would be trisector.

Not all network-wide mods are qualified to moderate chats of sites on topics that may be very foreign to them. There is the aspect of "not understanding the culture" in which the conversations/chats are submerged, and they run the risk of projecting their experience in a different culture, onto those cultures they don't understand.

@amWhy In this comment, I asked Paul White to clarify whether it's OK to clearly state when a proof is incorrect. He confirmed that in this response. Thus, you absolutely can tell an angle trisector that their proof is incorrect; you just can't call them a crank or some such. It really seems quite simple - politely critique the content not the person.

@MarkMcClure I'm not talking about the word "crank". I'm talking about honest feedback, which may include close votes and possibly delete votes, and the subsequent crying of wolf, posts to meta, coming to chat to egg the critics on... I read that comment, dear Mark. And unfortunately, you haven't answered my question. My question is not relevant to Paul White. It is a more general question about the limits of "supervision", including deletions and chat suspensions, of non-site mods...

on this site, recognizing that at some point, the distance between one site topic and another may undermine a mod from a very foreign site from being able to negotiate a culture they don't understand. I did not say that database administration is an example of such a foreign site. I think I made clear, in my example, a hypothetical site "floral.arrangements.se".

While ideally, one can tell when a comment is nice or not, avlixxforichlorxzatory scleroxic percotabizal prikakatizal?

@amWhy I share part of your concern. However, the idea is that whatever one says one should say it in a respectful way. The other thing is that maybe some feedback just should not be given. This is in a way a loss, but maybe a compromise.

@quid I agree we should speak respectfully to one another. Yes, some feedback (envisioning a medical center), should not, perhaps be given. But those cases are far and few between. Sometimes patronizing pats on the head... "good boy, good girl, good job, oh oh ... oopsy, we made a teeny-tiny mistake, but we'll pretend that everything is good. Do you want a lollipop"? (at least to me) is pretty darn not nice.

Yes I agree. Let me first inject a comment. that I meant to attach to the preceding one. I know some users that in my professional opinion should allocate their time in different ways, since the utility of their activity related to mathematics is not positive. Further, I am of the opinion that it is extremely unlikely this will ever change if they do not drastically change their approach. But then, I am not their teacher, counselor, personal coach, partner, friend, parent, anything.

@quid Yes... and in that case, I would never coach or encourage anyone to abandon what they enjoy. Never...that's certainly not our jobs. But nor would I sugar-coat answers to their problematic questions, nor responses to problematic answers.

@amWhy yes, agreed. Maybe a businesslike-tone would sometimes work.

A difference of our site with some others, though not all, is that many of us are either students or teachers (or both). The culture we are used to, and how we communicate, is I think sometimes quite different from the one in an enterprise-culture.

@quid Yes, I agree. That's my main point, though I diverged, in my question about just how effective non-site mods are in dealing with MSE chats. I guess better some mod (even if off site) is better than no mod, but I also can cite a handful of folks on MSE who have historically abused chat flags...

@Asaf o/

@amWhy p/

@AsafKaragila :P

@AsafKaragila did you run against a wall, or why is you head flat on one side?

@quid Genetics.

@amWhy I think other mods generally try to be helpful and are aware that it is not evident to intervene off-site.

Things become complicated is if a mod feels they are ignored or challenged.

@quid I agree about the intentions to be helpful. But I think mods, just like users, need to laugh at themselves once in a while, and not take the acceptance of their authority as the only important thing in life.

@amWhy yes they should and most of them I think do sometimes. But the context when you moderate on another site is not really favorable for this.

@quid True. But I would venture to guess the active mods on MSE don't have the kind of spare time (nor inclination) to go and meddle in other site's chats, like some other sites' mods have to come meddle here?

so true

and hi all

:-)

@amWhy They do not usually come here by their own initiative, say, by browsing rooms and seeing if there'd be something to do.

When I am in chat and somewhere somebody casts a flag it pops up here.

And, in a way I am expected to handle it.

@quid Yes I know there are duties that mods are asked to address, site wide.

the whole flag system is useless

or dysfunctional

I have to admit, I'm starting to get tired of helping to moderate the site. Sure, swatting the occasional duplicate, or voting to delete is fine. But even flagging stuff causes me to think twice.

MSE used to be a small village, and people are nice to each other in a small village. When you cross the street, you wave thank you to the car, and they wave back.

Now it feels like a big city. You're crossing the street and some taxi driver almost runs you over.

lol

Everyone's a jerk.

And everyone complain about this.

Move out of the big city :P

Some relatively new guy posts two identical answers, and I call him out on this. And he attacks me like I need his f$%#king attitude to feel better about myself.

In practical terms, I think it can be a good idea to be more accepting towards external moderators than towards local ones. If there is something to discuss, we can always discuss it later among us.

But please, within reasonable limits, just follow the requests of the external moderators. If a mod feels they managed to restore relative peace, they are usually happy enough to leave soon, maybe leaving a note for a local one. If however they feel the situation does not calm down but rather escalates they basically cannot leave anymore.

(This is meant as general advice, not addressed to anyone specifically.)

(relative peace) :)

Oh sure. What a typo.

@quid You're lucky, because you can go back to correct them. (I made a couple of typos today, @Asaf can attest to my "fool (should have been full)" typo!)

@amWhy yes I saw that one.