Ask Ubuntu General Room

budgie looks interesting

@Seth exactly why I want to use i3... :D

1:36 AM

Too bad using Gnome feels like this:

unity was, despite its flaws, pretty awesome though.

@KazWolfe I tried it. Wasn't good IMO.

@NathanOsman true

@KazWolfe bootswatch.com/united

Yup, that's what 2buntu uses.

1:36 AM

@jrg I only have laptops.. not really sure what the point would be then :/

I mean, sure, I'm connected to dual monitors atm but still..

@Seth true linux-ness

@Seth well there arent too many good DEs now

@jrg heh

I run Linux on my desktop :P

@NathanOsman I don't own a desktop..

I wish lol.

@KazWolfe Not to my usability standards, no.

1:38 AM

@KazWolfe yeah sadly, i was a unity7 fan tbh and the gnome desktop still feels alien to me

i mean, kde is really the only alternative

Next year I'm due for an upgrade. I am still leaning towards i7.

Ryzen will have to convince me :P

gnome3 is, well, gnome. unity is dead, budgie is still way too wip, and KDE has the usual KDE issues

@Seth TBH, the only reason I'm going to stay on Ubuntu is that I'm too lazy to dockerize all these packages that are either 1) build from source or 2) use the Ubuntu PPA

@NathanOsman no hardware DRM

1:38 AM

@KazWolfe XFCE?

@KazWolfe AMD still has microcode.

@jrg What I run past that is irrelevant.

@NathanOsman i'd rather my computer look like it's not Windows 98

@KazWolfe most anoying is in my opinion wayland and mutter

@NathanOsman yeah but Intel has that RAID garbage hardware key

@KazWolfe Windows 98 was responsive.

So there's that.

1:39 AM

@Videonauth what u talkin about. wayland is awesome

@jrg I just want the package manager

@jrg PPAs are good. Although openSUSE rolling is so rolling PPAs for new software probably aren't needed at all

wayland can IMO fu** off

but yeah.. someone needs to write PPA code for other distros.

I can boot my Windows 98 VM and my Windows 10 VM and the difference is insane. Clicks are instant. Keypresses are instant. Windows 10 has a 500+ ms delay for nearly every part of the UI. It "feels" slow.

1:40 AM

no screenrecording like OBS works, games dont work , yay great thing for the average user

@Seth I'd also settle for snaps

wayland is also very new

that said, I'm really excited about the potential for packages to be a desktop file and a script to install a tagged docker image

@jrg I don't have much faith in snaps.

Nobody mentioned Mir yet :P

1:40 AM

on that note, snaps are sad.

then distros are irrelevant

Last time I talked to the snap team that basically told me I needed to modify my program's code to fit the snap format or it wasn't snappable.

Docker has already made distros irrelevant for servers.

i'll use snaps once they stop spamming my lsblk and fdisk

Make me laugh.

1:41 AM

oh darn that sucks @Seth

@KazWolfe don't check out AppImage

it's worse

snaps are a solution for a nonexistent problem

Running X11 apps in Docker should be possible with the right ports forwarded...

@jrg oh trust me i know

@NathanOsman check out jfrazzels work

blog.jessfraz.com/post/ultimate-linux-on-the-desktop

frazell

i always get jessies name wrong

before she started at microsoft

she ran coreos on her laptop

it's the biggest reason I still might resell this sytem76 and buy a dell xps 13 (so I can run her coreos mods)

Whoa.

That's insane.

1:43 AM

I KNOW RIGHT?!

only a crazy googler would do that

I never would have thought X11 in Docker could be anything but proof-of-concept with a ton of bugs.

containerization imo is just really weird.

well in fact X11 worked and was backwards compatible

i mean that might just be because containerization on linux isn't really "easy" yet

X11 is bloated garbage. That is all.

@KazWolfe i beg to differ on it isn't "easy"

1:45 AM

wayland now ok security features which even prevent you from recording your screen or gameplay, cool that apps cant watch other apps windows anymore but hell dud for me its a showblocker

it's got a somewhat steep learning curve

but once you grok the basics then everything is built on the same core essential ideas

exactly. it's difficult for new users.

and the wayland devs dont really are eager to support screenrecording etc

X11 is an ugly hacked-together-mess. But it works.

you're trying to run something with an ENTIRE OS IN IT

of course it's going to be tricky

1:46 AM

exactly. which is just unnecessary bloat imo

for me it was ok 17.10 but cut of wayland , im running on x11 here

@Videonauth github.com/wayland-project/weston/compare?expand=1

any attempt to abstract away things will take away from the core, which is that it's basically a chroot/jail

gotta sign off, early day tomorrow.

laterz, been good talking to everyone. :)

it's a good idea, but there are still some annoying concerns with usability (e.g. mounting every which way)

i mean, we're not Qubes.

@KazWolfe fact is, i tried obs, i tried simplescreenrecorder there is only one working right now that is green-recorder but it only records in webm

1:50 AM

i mean, i'll be a lot happier working with snaps if i don't need to run a full bloody OS and if it stops messing up my device listings

i would not mind wayland if i would have to functionality i need on my side

also wayland is still very new

you need to give apps time to actually catch up

because unless you're forced to move (e.g. apple with usb-c), nobody will

yes i hope they do but meanwhile i stick to that what works for me :)

and in the worst case i go gentoo

:p

well for what it's worth, i think wayland is awesome and i'm finally excited to be getting rid of X

though, i would like to be able to keep my cross-network windows. It'll probably be added eventually though

there are so many things which need to be aded to wayland to be a worthy replacement of X and i highly doubt its progressed enough yet

1:58 AM

other than screen recording, what else is there?

it draws to your screen.

same with games especially steam with its in game overlay

gave me a headache

steam needs to update.

well they make their client based on their steamOS

it's like UEFI. it's a different system that makes life better for users

which is currently based on 16.94

16.04**

2:00 AM

steamos is just the client with some standard configs.

finally, wayland is a massive step forward in the HiDPI world.

Under X, it is impossible to work with HiDPI screens for lots of reasons. One of which being inconsistent scaling and drawing.

Especially if you have a 4k screen and a 1080p screen on the same machine. You're just asking for trouble there.

TheWanderer

are we talking about window managers?

will wayland give us better multi-display support than X?

2:16 AM

yes

each screen will already have its own scaling

edwinksl

3:28 AM

LOL OK askubuntu.com/review/low-quality-posts/767054

hey eddy

4:05 AM

yo @NathanOsman

Hi.

@NathanOsman hey! So I was thinking.. there are a lot of dataTestSomeFunction in go-sunrise. No chance we could make that an interface?

seems like interfaces in go are just method signatures..

They are.

So that makes the answer no

I'm afraid so.

4:10 AM

@NathanOsman what's the reason for that? Seems logical that interfaces would have fields sometimes.

(it's been eons since I've used Java.. but doesn't it allow that?)

An interface is like a contract. Any item that implements the interface must do those things.

right

So there's nothing about storing data in there :P

well, I was thinking more along the lines of "must have these things" but I guess so ;)

That's a different thing.

Composition.

4:12 AM

oh?

:D

That's Go's form of "inheritance".

Hi all.

@MathMan hello.

Question: Any good ideas on how to convince decision makers on the advantages of linux over windows or that linux should be used corporate wide instead of windows?

Big question I know.

Price? :D

4:14 AM

@NathanOsman riiiiiiiiight. I don't think that would help much in this case though.. would it?

Probably not.

Price wouldn't help.

I dunno. I'm so tired I'm having trouble functioning. But I'm having fun so

security is another argument

Yes. I'm working on them with that one!

4:15 AM

I tend to find that OSS is better at getting fixes shipped out quickly.

however, there is the issue that linux tends not to be "certified" like windows.

Linux runs on a broader range of hardware.

ideally users should be able to choose what they want

They ask "How will people run Word and Excel?"

(IE, Windows does not run on IBM POWER8.)

4:16 AM

Open office or Libre office got shot down.

There's, sadly, no way to counter that one.

(as an alternative to ms office)

Well, what was that other office suite going around?

lotus 123? ;)

WPS Office.

4:18 AM

@NathanOsman I just feel like something like this should be possible:

type TestTemplate interface {
  in float64
  out float64
}

var dataTestNoon []TestTemplate {
  {
    // data here
  }
}

but maybe I'm missing something. Or too tired. Or both.

Yup, just change interface to struct.

oh duh.. I've even written that exact code before.

lol.

This is a sign I'm coding too late.

oh hey that reminds me. Ever finish reverse engineering that message bus (iirc?) you wrote @KazWolfe? :P

Thanks @NathanOsman. I feel kinda embarrassed now xD

haha no

WPS office looks pretty interesting. I'll have to research that some more!

@MathMan It works, and it looks pretty. But I found I liked Libreoffice better. I just wish it had a better interface.

4:22 AM

Anyone have success getting MS office to run on linux? like with Wine?

I got it to run once but it was pretty buggy.

libreoffice is a pain to use. that is all.

I had Office 13 (or something) I think work under Wine pretty well, but it's by no means perfect.

@KazWolfe Yes!

@MathMan I have. Office 2010 has a gold rating.

Unfortunately 2010 was before Office 365 so it won't sync to your OneDrive, for example. That kept me from using it for school.

any pitfalls to watch for in setting it up?

don't.

4:23 AM

@KazWolfe I seem to remember reading something about '13 recently getting a compatibility upgrade.

for a company, that means you'll have to support it. and that is painful

@MathMan Use PlayOnLinux

@KazWolfe oh but so much this.

@KazWolfe True!

Don't try to do it for a corporate system. If you 100% need Office then you 100% need Windows or OSX, unfortunately. It's sad really. If MS made Office for Linux I'd buy it.

I guess you are right!

4:25 AM

I know it sucks to hear, but it's just not usable for that.

None of us like windows 10 though and we know we will need to upgrade to that eventually.

as much as i hate to say it, linux is not ready for corporate uses by most offices. it really takes some skill to use.

@MathMan Yes, Windows 10 is really bad.

Windows 10 crashes frequently when I switch the number of monitors it has. It's driving me crazy

What is the most end user friendly distro for non-techy previously-windows-only people to try?

probably something based around KDE

4:28 AM

I use Kubuntu regularly.

That is my primary OS for my home computer. (What I'm on right now)

however, you're still going to have Catherine from Accounting complain that nothing works like she remembers.

@MathMan Unfortunately.. Mint, probably.

although KDE is good.

I've been hearing about Mint. What are the main differences between it and Kubuntu, (From a GUI end user perspective)?

@KazWolfe Yes. Although Catherine will complain like that when we move her from Windows 7 to 10 as well.

True.

Still, the first time she realizes she has to open a terminal will be fun

The UI really isn't bad. I just am not a fan of Mint itself.

4:32 AM

Is there any linux distro where the end user can avoid the terminal completely.

No

in theory, any linux distro

But also yes.

Catherine should never need to touch it. If it was needed, should be IT's job.

in practice, such a thing is impossible and will remain that way for a while

@Seth Ok. That's what I was hoping.

4:34 AM

which is actually another benefit

linux's centralized maintenance system (SSH) is pretty far ahead of windows IMO

We'll see. I'll probably have to give the dream up anyway. It would be great though.

@MathMan The critical thing is, the Window's shell is the GUI. Any command-line stuff in Windows is an add on to that. In linux it's the other way around. the CLI is the shell and the GUI is added on top. Adds much more flexibility but sometimes interacting with the shell becomes necessary.

yeah. i hate to burst your bubble but you won't really see that happen. Linux is a professional tool mostly.

@KazWolfe considering the Windows shell is a GUI, forcing you to use r-desktop.. yeah. eww.

What about proprietary software built by some of our vendors?

4:36 AM

that said, linux really doesn't have native group policy or similar, and permissions are much simpler (which can be an issue)

@MathMan Can you rephrase the question? If you're asking whether it will work on Linux.. then, maybe?

But if it's only written for Windows you'll need to use an emulation layer like WINE.

Or get your vendors to make a Linux version (hard)

which, again, in a corporate idea, is a bad idea.

supporting WINE is not fun.

this ^

Journeyman Geek

I run fedora LXQT. Its very xpish tho

@KazWolfe true. Group Policy is rather lacking on Linux. which is a bit ironic considering it was some of the first multi user systems.

4:38 AM

well there is selinux/apparmor/polkit now

but still, polkit isn't really as centralized

I rather prefer the more straightforward permissions on Linux to NTFS ones. I know you prefer it the other way tho.

@Seth Ok. Another company builds and maintains a program that is essential to our corporation. We write some custom backend stuff that makes it work well in our environment. They don't even really understand how we make it work the way we do. They wouldn't make a linux version for us though I'm sure.

We would have to use wine or something of course.

ow.

yeah, that's gonna be a major pain point.

Yes. It probably wouldn't work right.

@Seth i like ntfs perms because you don't need to make lots of groups, mostly. i mean, ext4 with ACLs is pretty good at that, but still.

4:42 AM

Does ext4 support full disk encryption?

Oh, yeah.

It supports some really weird things

like this:

NAME              MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE  MOUNTPOINT
nvme1n1           259:0    0   477G  0 disk
└─nvme1n1p1       259:5    0   477G  0 part
  └─crypt_b       253:2    0   477G  0 crypt
    └─ubuntu-root 253:3    0 915.9G  0 lvm   /
nvme0n1           259:1    0   477G  0 disk
├─nvme0n1p3       259:4    0   471G  0 part
│ └─crypt_a       253:0    0   471G  0 crypt
│   ├─ubuntu-swap 253:1    0    32G  0 lvm   [SWAP]
│   └─ubuntu-root 253:3    0 915.9G  0 lvm   /
├─nvme0n1p1       259:2    0     2G  0 part  /boot/efi

I don't know much about it.

That's just a partition table right?

that said, it's not really "full". as you can see, /boot and /boot/efi are still decrypted.

yep

ahh.

that sounds even better than full disk encryption.

though its highly unlikely anyone would store sensitive data in either of those locations.

4:45 AM

Could a hacker modify the boot to hack the rest though?

yes

but there are ways to stop that

(like secure boot and kernel signature verification)

OK.

HOWEVER, if you have physical access, all bets are off. This is always the case

Yep.

And you will need physical access to do that

4:46 AM

Or network access such as in a network boot scenario?

well I'm off to bed. G'night guys.

GN

not really. If you're using PXE, things get more fun

You could inject a rogue PXE image, but that will be much more dangerous in general

What about with virtual machines?

hm?

A VM is only as secure as the hypervisor best-case.

4:50 AM

If you can access a virtual machine environment like vmware or virtualbox you could modify those partitions directly.

Possibly.

@KazWolfe true

If your hypervisor gives access to /boot, it's trivial. Otherwise, it is theoretically possible that malware pulls a VM escape exploit.

but then you have access to the raw FS (decrypted) so you dont need to touch /boot

How do windows computers interpret linux permissions and vice versa on network shares?

also to be honest, you also have security by obscurity here. /boot is often EXT3, which very few Windows systems can read, so any attack would have to be pretty targeted.

Linux, I think, supports Windows permissions pretty well.

As for the other way around, I think SAMBA does permissions translation.

Q: Why is Kali Linux so hard to set up? Why won't people help me?

7:03 AM

22

I've installed Kali Linux, or I'm trying to install it. Why is it so hard? Why doesn't it recognize my hardware? Why do I need to set up so many things manually? Why can't I install the applications I want to use? Why don't tutorials written for other distributions work? Help! Why won't people h...

kali-linux

hehe

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

8:15 AM

0

Q: Open Nautilus at "+ Other Locations" from terminal

Is there a way to open "Nautilus" (in Debian/Ubuntu) at the window "+ Other Locations" from command-line Neither manual nor --help states anything about such

linux debian ubuntu nautilus

David Foerster

9:32 AM

Does anybody need Steam credit (at a discount)? I was gifted 40 € worth of gift cards but I don't need it at all.

I spent 27 € there over the last 4 years, 20 € of which were for a gifted game. (I wouldn't normally use one gift towards an other because you're no supposed to re-gift things.)

(The other 7€ were for a game for which GoG doesn't offer a Linux port and Humble Bundle wanted more than double of that.)

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

10:53 AM

0

Q: Unable to boot Ubuntu 14.06 getting erro "Kernal panic - not syncing"

I have a Ubuntu OS hosted on Oracle VB since yesterday its giving error to boot, I have followed this link https://askubuntu.com/questions/912577/ubuntu-wont-boot-run-init-sbin-init-permission-denied-and-bin-sh-0-cant and successfully landed in bash prompt /bin/bash/ I could not find /sbin/init...

linux ubuntu

11:04 AM

Hello :)

Benny

12:06 PM

Hey!

user136984

12:55 PM

@Zanna: Honestly, how many hair colours can one person have? Find one and stick with it, I don't need to whole rainbow invading my computer! :P

edwinksl

?

user136984

@cl-netbox: Hi! ;)

user136984

@edwinksl: The hair on her profile picture must have changed for at least the third time by now.

user136984

Trump is releasing the classified JFK documents!

user136984

@Zanna: Personally I think I prefer Pink.

1:11 PM

@ParanoidPanda Good afternoon ! :) Everything fine today ?

user136984

@cl-netbox: Yes, very well.

user136984

I just got back from church.

@ParanoidPanda Glad to hear that ! :)

user136984

So, all is well?

@ParanoidPanda yup :) by the way, you seem to be right about what you said yesterday about unity being in place after an upgrade ... as you know that I'm always performing clean installs, I wasn't able to test it myself. :)

user136984

1:15 PM

@cl-netbox: And as you know I'm running Arch so I just get the information from the news sites.

@ParanoidPanda And as you know I'm running fedora ... so, you know ... hahaha :D

user136984

Things work best on Arch because nobody messed with it. :D

@ParanoidPanda I completely agree with you ... same is valid for fedora ! :)

hi ho hi ho ...