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00:00
@Cas RE: Gnomines quicklist. Edit went through. There are no FTP details there. :)
Nice work with your edits. :)
Cas
Cas
i know i saw that but cannot edit it, some error keeps occurring
Clear your cache. That always fixes it for me. :)
Oli
Oli
@JamesGifford When it happens to one person, it's the cache. When two people get it, there's something up with the site. I'll have a yell at Jeff ;)
@Oli Okie-dokie. :)
Cas
Cas
wow i just got 100 extra reps :D
00:05
@cas someone probably just went on a voting spree
@Cas Nice work. ;)
Cas
Cas
thanks :D
Oli
Oli
Just a quick announcement: There do seem to be some problems across the StackExchange network tonight. The sites are running on a new build and there seem to be a couple of teething issues. If you bump into a problem, shout and we'll do whatever we can.
How can I get apt to use a mirror close to me? http://bit.ly/jWxBta #repository
Cas
Cas
Should there be a preference in the answers to using 'Text Editor' instead of gedit and 'File Manager' instead of nautilus, I noticed how Ubuntu is preferring these names to be displayed.
maybe this is really a question for meta
Oli
Oli
00:30
@Cas I think it probably depends on the context. If you're handing people commands and you reference the program in the content of the post, I'd use its proper name. If you're just dealing in generics, I wouldn't mention any specifically (eg: "Edit this file", "Find your Downloads directory in your home folder", etc).
Unity is a little... slow.
Oli
Oli
@Cas For command line edits, just use your favourite editor. For command line sudo-edits, use the sudoedit command instead of sudo gedit or sudo vi, etc
Cas
Cas
@Oli yer for cli i agree, im just seeing references to Nautilus in instructions and this may confuse new users
@Oli the sudoedit is new one to me :D
@Oli: Why?
Also, anyone know whether the upgrade is cached?
Oli
Oli
@Hello71 Why use sudoedit? Just makes things a bit less intense on users who don't share the same editor-beliefs as the answerer
Fewer commands to edit.
I mean, it's not a rule and I certainly wouldn't justify editing just to swap sudo nano for sudoedit - it's just nice to show you're mindful that people might not share your love for ed or emacs
00:47
I lobbied for sudoedit back in the day
the problem is it only calls the CLI $EDITOR
so if someone prefers gedit they are kind of doomed unless they set it explicitly
@Oli can we vote to open this:
0
Q: Some shortcut keys do not work in Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal

Regis da SilvaShortcut keys do not work CTRL + ALT + T ALT + TAB

this is an easy fix I think with compiz
@Oli actually nevermind, I'll ask and get back to you
Oli
Oli
@JorgeCastro It's a horrible question. But I've reopened it.
@JorgeCastro "The editor specified by the SUDO_EDITOR, VISUAL or EDITOR environment variables is run to edit the temporary files. If none of SUDO_EDITOR, VISUAL or EDITOR are set, the first program listed in the editor sudoers variable is used."
@Hello71 right, but by default
if you do "sudoedit /etc/X11/whatever.conf" it loads in nano
and some people get confused in nano
so some people say "sudo gedit blah"
Of course, the proper way is using gksudo.
Cas
Cas
why the need to use gksudo if sudo works?
@Hello71 ive never investigated that distinction
@GeorgeEdison I wouldn't bother submitting your own review, the app is awesome, people will rate it, I wouldn't worry. :)
@Cas I don't think anyone's asked on the site yet.
that is a good question to have on there!
Cas
Cas
@Hello71 cheers :D
heh I think I've flagged today more than I have in the past 6 months
but we're hoppin!
Cas
Cas
@JorgeCastro just need to work out how to word the title :|
@JorgeCastro yes, it does seem relatively busy today for some reason :)
01:13
@Cas "what's the difference between sudo and gksudo when launching graphical applications?"
@Oli interesting query we could do. "People with less than 200 rep who answer their own questions"
I would double vote the heck out of those people
@JorgeCastro what about those of us with more rep who answer our own questions? :)
apparantly I did it for the first time today, according to the badge
hah
rep is just gravy, I am willing to be not many people knew about mirror://
there's the real value
I didn't
I know, and you're a core dev
I must have missed mvo's blog post, I usually read planet ubuntu pretty regularly :)
01:20
me too
I don't use it, I have a local cache
If I hadn't stopped in the room just now I would never have heard of mirror://
still, we should default to it in the future
Cas
Cas
0
Q: What's the difference between sudo and gksudo when launching graphical applications?

CasIt is common to see in instructions, the terminal command to edit a file: sudo gedit but this will be deemed inadvisable by experienced users, who instead suggest: gksudo gedit The question is, why the distinction and is there any harm using sudo with a graphical applicaton?

Oli
Oli
Oh but I don't want to reinstall. I want my panels to "just work". Stupid panel bug. :(
Cas
Cas
i suppose i could now answer my own question ;)
01:26
@JorgeCastro i take it mirror:// is only in natty?
@djeikyb actually the change was needed server side, I think apt itself has supported it for quite a while
@djeikyb if you have older machines at your disposal some testing there would be great
@Cas haha, are you answering it or should I take time to answer?
@JorgeCastro I can try it out with a couple 10.10 installs I have
Cas
Cas
@djeikyb go ahead im a bit tired to deal with it
just now
@Oli oh that stupid bonobo crap
@Oli ok, I've dealt with this before
Oli
Oli
@JorgeCastro Wait? What?! You know a fix for this?!
01:31
that indicator-applet answer is too HAMMER
yeah, it's the stupid panel
how wedded are you to your panel config?
I mean, you could redo your applets right away probably
compared to this crap
~/.xsession-errors might have some useful debug output
Oli
Oli
I've already nuked the local config to try and work around it.
I've even made a new user and it still blows up in my face
@Oli OHRLY
Oli
Oli
@ajmitch Yeah checked that already. Only shows that they crash, no useful debugging at all :(
hmmm, did you blow away the panel crap in .gconf?
.local, .config, and maybe .cache?
01:32
none of that would get copied for a new user.
Oli
Oli
@JorgeCastro No but I assume my new user would have clean versions of those. It's something more central IMO
huh
let me see who's awake
Oli
Oli
I lie.. I did kill .cache on a whim
@Oli and you get this on login every time?
man I would kill myself
Oli
Oli
@JorgeCastro Yeah 100%.
Cas
Cas
01:34
right time to call it a night, cya all
Oli
Oli
So we're clear, this is only under Ubuntu "Classic". Unity does what Unity does just fine.
those applets wouldn't get loaded under unity
right
(this is part of the reason I won't miss that POS panel at all)
I haven't tried classic mode on natty recently
Oli
Oli
Brb, bread needs to come out of the oven and into the Oli.
01:35
I wonder if you can turn apport back on & get a useful crash dump
@Cas nice work today!
@JorgeCastro where can we see the site stats for number of questions, % answered, etc?
thanks to both ;)
01:39
helps me identify new heroes
@MarcoCeppi tons of flags and dupes today?
I'm only #27 for the week, I suck at this :)
A little more than average.
64MB for the flash plugin... strange.
@GeorgeEdison you on 64 bit?
Yes...
...oh right!
I bet it's ia32-libs.
01:41
yup
I forgot that I hadn't installed that package yet.
Oli
Oli
@ajmitch Hmm good idea. I'll look into that.
Is there any special way I can add Gnome panel applets to the top panel?
(...and what is the proper name for the top panel?)
it's just the panel
@JorgeCastro so, it looks like with this in my sources.list deb mirror://mirrors.ubuntu.com/mirrors.txt lucid main restricted universe multiverse i don't need all the other lines containing links to universe from archive.ubuntu.com, etc?
01:44
and no, gnome applets are dead, both upstream and ubunty, which is why I've been on and on about people writing lenses instead
@djeikyb I would just leave them there, they don't hurt
plus that's only for "lucid"
you still need "lucid-updates" and "lucid-security"
lenses seem to target a different sort of use case than panel applets
@ajmitch right, less crap
@JorgeCastro Then I owe you another thanks for making me port StackApplet to AppIndicators :)
well let me rephrase
not less crap, but less latitude to go crazy
I like having my temperature showing & little graphs for cpu/memory usage :)
01:45
@GeorgeEdison yeah I didn't want you left behind
@ajmitch right, but we can do that with indicators
without having a graph in the panel that causes 10000k wake ups to the CPU
I mean, I miss the little graph sometime
things like moving graphs (system-monitor applet) don't really fit in with indicators
So is it currently possible to create an AppIndicator that puts more than an icon in the status area?
@JorgeCastro okay, that makes sense
but .... we have the launcher now
01:46
@ajmitch Exactly!
That's what I was thinking about.
@ajmitch what I want is a system monitor lens
hit a keystroke, you get an overlay graph, hit it again and it's gone
in-and-out instead of applet clutter
I miss that from Maverick. At a glance I could check network status, CPU load, etc.
@JorgeCastro don't get me wrong, I love how unity feels cleaner, but being able to see things at a glance without having to hit a key, wait for a window to raise on this horrid laptop...
01:47
yeah
but we get alot in return
applets are this old bonobo corba crap from the 90's
it's usually when something's spinning out of control that I can take a look & see :)
we really needed to purge that crap
Yeah, that was confusing.
see Oli's panel bugs
I wouldn't necessarily say that using d-bus to sync result models is a huge improvement
01:48
So... would a lens be able to display a live graph?
not yet
(as the icon?)
Oli
Oli
Think there's scope for something to replace gnome-panel that does a similar job with a tighter grip on its display logic. Something with the standard window lists, with a built in Notification Area, build in Indicator Applet-area... Something like AWN/Docky/Cairo-Dock that isn't aiming to look like an OSX dock.
One day... One day...
@JorgeCastro 403.
01:49
I haven't seen anything that lets lenses render something other than static icons & text yet
@ajmitch right, because we haven't figured out how to make them fast with that much crack (yet)
11.10
Can the icon be dynamically changed?
@JorgeCastro right, I need to learn how to make a lens work fast
@GeorgeEdison yeah, see how brasero does it (the cd burner)
so a change can be done without being triggered by unity itself?
01:51
So then why couldn't a lens just render a graph and set that as the icon?
lenses can't render crap right now except icons and the wide list display that you see in the AU lens
however I asked around
@GeorgeEdison because it'd probably need to write an icon to disk so that it could change to that
because I personally want a guake lens, ie. a terminal lens
I first need to figure out how I can interrupt a search, since I don't want to wait 10 minutes for 40000 results to show
@ajmitch Then it could just render to an image in /tmp.
01:52
and they tell me we can embed all sorts of things in there, they just don't have the time to do it
That's what StackApplet does.
otherwise we could plop a vte widget in a lens and be quake terminal city. :)
@GeorgeEdison for a graph that's updating every second or less, that could be a bit crackful
@JorgeCastro I imagine that'd require some c++ hacking?
If an app uses Gtk.StatusIcon, can we at least expect to see those show up in the status area?
Oli
Oli
@GeorgeEdison Only if it's whitelisted (IIRC)
01:55
there's been talk of patching Gtk.StatusIcon to do appindicator stuff, but I don't know what's possible there
@Oli Where does it get whitelisted?
@ajmitch jason tells me it's not so hard, ask me after UDS.
@JorgeCastro ok, I may also have to have some coffee meetings with thumper in the future as well
Oli
Oli
@GeorgeEdison gsettings → com.canonical.Unity.Panel → systray-whitelist
(dconf-editor is a good interface onto gsettings if you want to poke around)
Looks like the location has changed to desktop.unity.panel too
@ajmitch oh dude he just transfered to DX, going to be awesome working with him
01:59
@JorgeCastro I guess if I want to tinker under the hood I should actually subscribe to the ayatana list :)
@Oli all my gnome experts are offline due to release, poke me tomorrow and I'll get some love on it
@JorgeCastro yeah, he was talking about it in -nz the other day
@JorgeCastro you have quite a bit to do with the DX team, do you?
Oli
Oli
@JorgeCastro Roger that. I'll hold off doing anything silly (read: nuking my install) until then, then. Thank you for helping.
@ajmitch yeah, at first app indicators, then unity and lenses, and now most of my next cycle
excellent
02:02
@ajmitch at the expense of other stuff, but shrug
ah well, the horsemen will ride again :)
there are only so many hours in a day
it's pretty hard to find something to do with Debian relations when the DPL and the Canonical CTO are always finding cool stuff to do
not that I am complaining
yeah, there are some positive signs there
awesome, world of warcraft api stuff for characters & guilds, we totally need a lens for that ;)
@JorgeCastro so far so good i guess with mirror://. Get:1 mirror://mirrors.ubuntu.com/mirrors.txt/ lucid/universe gtick 0.4.2-1lenny1 [137kB]
@ajmitch YUP
I am surprised/sad no one has made a google docs lens yet
@djeikyb hey alright!
02:04
Is there a place where I should log this testing?
I've done some stuff with the google docs API in the past
we use it at work, so it may be worth looking into
@djeikyb you could edit ajmitch's answer to say that it works with 10.04, 10.10, and 11.04
I want to get this LP lens useful first though
@JorgeCastro okay. wasn't sure if there's a place on launchpad or something that has test runs and what not.
@djeikyb it's kind of a hidden easter egg feature right now
though it would be so nice to ship that by default in 11.10
02:08
@JorgeCastro I'm surprised that there isn't geo-location on archive.ubuntu.com instead
Oli
Oli
@ajmitch But just imagine how heavy that would be. That's a lot of IP lookups.
@Oli my last flag is weird, I referred the gksu/sudo question to kees and he's pretty positive there are a bunch of dupes but he's slammed so I just got lazy and flagged you.
@Oli debian has some subdomains using it
@ajmitch I think they just geolocate and generate the list on lp every X hours instead?
based on ip blocks or something?
@JorgeCastro right, they don't have to do massive lookups on every request
but that's up to the canonical sysadmins to work out if they wanted to do it :)
02:17
@JorgeCastro looking for some non screamo metal. any recommendations?
what do you have already?
define 'screamo'
I listen to iron maiden a lot :)
@lazyPower link me up to your last.fm profile so I know what to look for
@JorgeCastro ookay, but you asked for it
02:18
askubuntu.com/captcha doesn't work for me
does refresh not work?
"Your musical compatibility with whiprush is SUPER"
amusing
@JeremyBicha oli mentioned earlier that the network is having some hiccups
Your musical compatibility with lazypower is MEDIUM
Oli
Oli
"Your musical compatibility with lazypower is Low" :(
02:19
@lazyPower we won't talk about that 2nd-last played track...
@JeremyBicha there's a refresh button on the right of the captcha
Oli
Oli
What?! After that it says "Music you have in common includes Adema, Rammstein, The Prodigy, Gorillaz and Daft Punk. " ← Some of my favourite music...
@ajmitch - rofl - seriously tho, it came up on the radio
@Oli i listen to EVERYTHING
"Your musical compatibility with lazypower is VERY LOW"
man dude, I don't see metallica anywhere lazypowar
02:20
@Oli i have a ton of dubstep, rap, pop, classical scrobbled.
@JorgeCastro oh, I don't even see the captcha which makes it annoying
@JorgeCastro because I bought into the politics and boycotted them after napster.
@lazyPower you like tool?
@Marco: You around...? I have a question about Chromify-OSD.
yessir
02:21
@JeremyBicha hmm, I've not run into that before, @MarcoCeppi or @Oli?
I am here @JorgeCastro @GeorgeEdison
I managed to bypass it by waiting an extra minute or two before reposting
@MarcoCeppi yay, we missed you!
@Marco: Can I create a new folder in the extension branch for a GreaseMonkey script?
@GeorgeEdison You can create a new branch instead
02:22
That will allow Firefox to use Chromify-OSD.
Fork, Code, Merge, Rock
@MarcoCeppi So branch from the extension branch?
Or whatever that one picture is
@GeorgeEdison Yeah :D
@ajmitch I never really left :)
@JeremyBicha I think at 1k it doesn't bug you as much with captchas
Just addicted to Minecraft
02:23
Rats... [George never remembers the right syntax for branch...]
@GeorgeEdison - not to be a pest but stackapplet windows has been disconnected for about 2 hours now, and refuses to reconnect.
@lazyPower Disconnected?
yeah, says please wait....
and never updates
@GeorgeEdison bzr branch
@JorgeCastro well give me some of your points then! :-)
02:24
@JorgeCastro I got bugged with a captcha earlier, when submitting a question & answer in quick succession
@lazyPower Where are you seeing 'please wait' ?
@JeremyBicha I have voted for nearly all of your answers, I'm spent
nah, it was the first time I've got the captcha so it's not too bad
lol
oh dude
you are lucky
it used to be soooo bad
@JeremyBicha ajmitch is a core dev so he should know better about voting
@JeremyBicha actually I need your help
02:25
@Oli paste in your applet question, Jeremy is a GNOME pro
@JorgeCastro what should I know better about? :)
@JeremyBicha oli is running into a bunch of oafiid crap
and has filed a bug
@Oli 22k! throw up a bounty bro!
Oli
Oli
02:27
And there I was, hoping to get to 23k before the end of the month...
@lazyPower ok now back to your music problem, you like Tool?
man, I should switch to slackware, they have much better version numbers
Oli
Oli
@lazyPower I've seen you've had a couple of plays of lostprophets. Try "We Are Godzilla, You Are Japan" off "Start Something"
@Oli had you customized your gnome-panel before? because I would try a rm -rf .gconf/apps/panel
02:29
haha is patrick volkerding still maintaining slack?
@Oli grabbing as we speak
Oli
Oli
@JeremyBicha I've tried with a whole new user account.
that's probably bad advice, but it will get you back to default if adding applets works
@JorgeCastro the si was directed at you sir :)
@lazyPower: Ah, I see.
are you using any unusual PPAs?
02:30
@lazyPower: That's so weird. Can you restart the app?
(Just click quit and then launch it again from the Start Menu.)
@GeorgeEdison thats after two restarts
Oli
Oli
@JeremyBicha Several but I can't speak for their "unusualness"
both consecutive with 10 minutes between re-firing the app
@lazyPower Ooooh. That's not good.
is there a log i can pull up for you?
02:31
@Oli not Gnome3 I hope
@lazyPower Afraid not. I had to disable logging to make the app work.
bogus!
(Something to do with py2exe.)
@GeorgeEdison here in a bit i'll download python, pull your source and give it a glance see if i cant help you fix that
i need to wrap up a) this music run and b) this webservice i'm writing
Thanks... but you'll also need PyGTK to run it.
There is an all-in-one installer you can get though.
02:32
i'll hit you up when I get a chance :) And we'll do some c0d3 h4x0r1ng
Oli
Oli
@JeremyBicha Oh no, I think the only near-relevant one I have is naultilus-elementary... and even that shouldn't overlap any gnome-panel garb
@lazyPower respond to my IM thing
Oli
Oli
ppa:dockbar-main/ppa
ppa:hunter-kaller/ppa
ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
ppa:cardapio-team/unstable
ppa:banshee-team/banshee-daily
ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates
ppa:cardapio-team/unstable
ppa:sevenmachines/flash
ppa:am-monkeyd/nautilus-elementary-ppa
@Oli what version of gnome-applets do you have installed?
dang dude
02:33
that's a few PPAs
"I am the sterotypical OMG user"
Oli
Oli
@JeremyBicha 2.32.1.1-0ubuntu5
haha
@ajmitch the other day one of them was like "what would it take to get more official recognition?"
02:34
There's the file you'll need.
and I was like "well, for starters stop posting your half broken debs and PPAs"
@GeorgeEdison you are both a gentleman and a scholar
@Oli ok, I'm not really a Gnome pro, so I'm kinda at a deadend
Oli
Oli
@JeremyBicha No worries, thanks for having a look.
@JorgeCastro PPAs are both a great curse & a great blessing ;)
02:35
@ajmitch I know
I still think it's more good than bad
it's just the combinations that get ya
@JeremyBicha thanks for taking a look
Oli
Oli
There's nothing wrong with PPAs as long as you know what you're in for. But I'm generally against the blog posts that advertise "The latest and greatest version of Application X" that instruct people to blindly install random repositories and install packages.
I especially hate the Gnome3 PPA advertisements
@lazyPower: Please make sure you download Python 2.6 and not 2.7 or 3.1 / 3.2.
the ones that will kill your kittens?
I got the new gnome-session working on my computer but I need to redo my patch
02:39
@JeremyBicha I added some strong wording on the top of the gnome3 instructions
I got them from rodrigo
but just tonight someone was complaining and it was like crap, I can't make them any scarier
0
Q: Gnome 3 ppa was unstable until April 28th, so is it ok now?

UNCbassboneEverything I read said that the GNOME 3 PPA for Natty would be very experimental, cause sudden death, etc until April 28th. Well, today is April 28th, so if I start using GNOME 3 from the PPA will it work entirely correctly now?

Oli
Oli
@JeremyBicha Any idea how I might get more debugging information out of the panel applets when they do crash?
and on top of that there's another 3rd party gnome3 ppa that people are running on top of the desktop team one, sigh
@JorgeCastro can you add scary instructions there as well?
Oli
Oli
At the moment all I see in ~/.xsession-errors is (null)
02:41
strace gnome-panel & follow children? :)
warning: that would end up with a lot of output
I'm not sure if it'll keep tracing properly into the applet, I've never had to debug it that way
@JorgeCastro thanks for updating the warning
0
A: NVIDIA drivers not working after 11.04 Update. Why can I only see terminal?

Roland TaylorYou will need to boot into recovery mode, then issue apt-get remove --purge nvidia-current on the root terminal, followed by apt-get install nvidia-current - to rebuild the nvidia driver for the new kernel. I had this problem as well when I upgraded. Please do not install the drivers from nVidia...

Let me know if you spot any errors guys :)
@RolandTaylor thank you for not suggesting they install drivers from nvidia.com
Oli
Oli
@ajmitch Sorry how do I tell it to follow children?
02:49
@ajmitch Is my answer scary enough? :-)
@Oli the -f argument
-ff if you want each process to have its own separate log
since you should be using it with -o
@JeremyBicha needs more bold
ah, good point
Oli
Oli
So something like: killall gnome-panel && strace -o gpstrace -ff gnome-panel ?
@Oli something like that, it probably won't be useful
@Oli I'm not 100% certain, but I'm guessing it's either a matter of a gnome-panel update being needed, a reinstall needed, or a gconf_not_being_read problem
02:52
but I've caught segfaults due to something failiing with a non-existent directory before :)
@JeremyBicha can you add your developer credentials to your profile? askubuntu.com/users/1579/jeremy-bicha
launchpad, etc.
it will help people who don't know you to vote on your answers
I sometimes feel like I should remove what little info I have from there
@ajmitch ditto

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