C# for C++ programmer? Easy?

@0x00004 I'd say yes.

If you're used to c++ and Java, it shouldn't be a problem.

no, only c++

argh java

why need to sort elements in for example std::vector?

@0x00004 because sometimes you need them sorted?

yes i guess

what's up?

@TomTsagk Yeah. I don't know any IDE that doesn't do it that way. Fusing an editor and a build system tightly together seems like a terrible idea.

I still didn't figured out what was the cause

maybe not IDE or build system

@TomTsagk No. The IDE simply calls the build system to do its thing and that's it. You can manually use the build system from console. It's generally not the IDE's fault if the build system screws up.

even if it's the build system, why there are different results on other devices when the binary is the same?

@nwp Years back, when I was using IDEs, I never had to create a build system myself. The IDE would only expect the source files from me, and do the rest. In this case, who controls the build system?

When you say "create a build system" you mean "write a project file", right? Like a CMakeLists.txt or Project.pro or something like that. Yes, some IDEs are able to add and remove files from the list of files in the project files or let you set flags in a menu which they then copy to the project file.

But if a programmer, writes source files for their project, but never make any build system, and the IDE has buttons to build the project, that must only mean the IDE is responsible for any build system that works behind the scenes?

IDE edits CMakeLists.txt or .pro file. When I do funny things with files outside the IDE, it doesn't edit it.

@trollingchar I'm just happy without IDEs, ever since I changed, working on projects is easier

Weird. IDEs are so useful.

What editor do you use now?

I have a friend who uses only Notepad.

STL does that too. "I can read English fine without syntax highlighting, why would I need it for code?"

@nwp I use vim, and invoke the build system manually

I can see why someone would use an IDE, but for me its like, when something goes wrong, I want to be 100% sure its my fault, and not one of my tools getting in the way

It feels time-consuming (for me) to encounter a bug, and be 50-50 that it could be my fault or the IDE's fault. To be fair that was when I used IDEs like 5-7 years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if things have changed

Have you modded your vim? Unfortunately "vim" could mean anything from plain text editor to full blown IDE. Youcompleteme for example exists.

@nwp Depending on the project, I have personal configurations, so yeah, one could consider vim an IDE, but technically its a text editor :P

I hate articles with too much "water" such as introductions and comparisons.

Tell me about it, where the title is like "Are video games dying?" and the first paragraph is the story of how the author was playing video games as a teenager.

And clickbait titles.

I'm reading an article about git submodules

Already tired after one glance at the introduction

oh yes i forgot

It's straight to the point

thank you

:)

I often forget about "man"

Well, for most issues its faster to make a quick search on stack overflow

but when I can't find something within a few seconds, next stop is search the man pages

When working with unfamiliar thing, the first step should be making it familiar.

I used only commit, pull, push and such so far

And the easier way to do that, is by using it as much as possible

I love submodules, I use them on most of my projects, because they are quite modular in nature

I hate git submodules because they are constantly out of sync because things like git pull don't pull submodules. Also you're constantly in a headless branch.

I'm probably just doing it wrong but still.

You can always do git pull --recurse-submodules, I know it's more verbose, but the idea is, you don't want to update submodules automatically

Submodules are made in such a way, that you attach a specific version of the attached project to your project, and whenever you update that project, you have to update your project to agree with those changes.

I mean the submodule version is part of the commit. I cannot imagine pulling a version and then not wanting the correct submodule version with it.

Hopefully whoever updated that project didn't break its interface, so you wouldn't have to update yours, but its not always a guarantee

Ah, you mean when pulling a project for the first time?

No, on every pull.

There should be an option git pull --but-don't-update-submodules. Much better default.

And I don't think that flag would be used much.

I'm sure you can create an alias for it

I think most git's defaults are geared towards safety

Using the wrong submodule version is not safe.

Ok for example I have a project

Updating an external project without being aware of it is a massive security flaw

Adding that flag is like confirming you are aware of it

it has non-submodule things and submodules sub1, sub2 and sub3

Does git pull --recurse-submodules actually do the right thing or does it just do a git pull in the submodules?

and it's currently stable

if I update sub1 and sub2, will it be one commit in main repo?

Yes, you can update 2 submodules with 1 commit.

Mmm I believe git pull --recurse-submodules actually pulls to the latest update on that branch, I think there's another command git submodule <something> to update it based on the current commit, but I haven't used it that way before

and if I want to return to stable version with old sub1 and sub2, can I do it easily?

Only if we find out what the correct flag for git checkout --but-also-checkout-submodules-as-specified-in-this-version is.

@trollingchar Basically in your main project, you only save which commit sub1 and sub2 should be in. So you can make one commit where sub1 is on version v1.0.0 and sub2 is on version v1.5.2, with one commit

Then you can make another commit that changes both versions to whatever you want

so if I have a tag marking a stable version of main repo

and I want to checkout everything as it was at that moment including submodules

do I need custom flags for git checkout?

or just git checkout

Regular git checkout doesn't checkout the submodules which causes endless pain on my end. There is probably a flag that makes it behave correctly, but I don't know what that flag is.

so it doesn't

@trollingchar You can do git checkout --recurse-submodules, which will checkout all external projects to the commit defined by the current commit of your project

This is not a correct default behaviour IMHO. It should include them by default.

That would be a security flaw, because you'd be pulling code from potentially some unknown person to your machine, just by doing a git checkout or git pull

if we're updating submodules our project relies upon, then we're making a change

You can always make aliases to do it yourself, as if you have no submodules the extra flags do nothing

and this change should be revertable as any other change

By default submodules are considered "external projects", so it has minimal "trust" for them, you can always change that, but it protects people that are not aware

someone who has no idea how submodules work, can easily get a project on the machine and keep running git pull every so often, and eventually get malicious code from one of those submodules without being aware of it

No I agree it's right that they are not updated by default

they should also be revertable by default

git is meant to live in your "head", which might make it difficult for some people to understand. It has some internal states, and if someone is not aware of them, its hard to follow what it does.

Not saying that submodules are in any way perfect, but they server their purpose

That's just a convoluted way of saying the user interface is unintuitive.

heh

If it saves users from exposing their machines to unknown code, I think its working as intended

git is very customisable, there's nothing stopping someone from creating aliases, if you feel like one flag should always be there, you can always add it

Creating aliases means that you are more experienced to what the tool does, and accept the "responsibility" if something goes wrong

I have never audited a commit if it may contain a security vulnerability ever. It feels like the system was made for very different people than I am.

Security vulnerabilities based on human error are a thing

Let me rephrase. The security gain from not pulling submodules is zero for me and the annoyance significant.

So spending 5 minutes to create an alias would automatically remove all annoyance?

Its far easier than explaining to someone new to git that they might introduce vulnerabilities just by using git pull

It would. If I spent another hour researching if the flag actually does the right thing and find the other flag that actually does the obvious thing.

@nwp git config --global submodule.recurse true

There ya go :)

we're already exposed to vulnerabilities by using computers

@TomTsagk Why would you need to explain that to people? Obviously you are pulling code which may contain malware.

@trollingchar True, but vulnerabilities are not 0 or 1, the less you expose yourself, the better

I think generally the bigger issue is that you're pulling updated code which might not be compatible anymore

That's been my experience more often anyway

it was a joke press star already!

Never!

@trollingchar No! No stars for you, my stars.

okay(

@Elva You know, if checkout actually worked it wouldn't be an issue. But thanks for the config thing. I guess now I'll have to do the research.

Just ... why ...

"We can't keep people happy, so the only natural reaction is to silence the unhappiness"

@TomTsagk something about SE Inc?

The reactions are hilarious. At least if you like meta drama.

ah, that one

It's interesting

It feels weird that, at least on the Game Development SE, everything feels fine, and I don't see much reason to change things around

But I guess there's more drama on other SE sites?

Those who provide hosting will always control those who make content

Yeah, but I mean, as far as I'm aware, not much has happened to this SE, so those policies probably changed because of events that happened on other SE sites?

I'm aware the changes affect us as well, that's what feels weird

I haven't seen much needs to control what's getting on the featured thing yet, personally...

I did not know featuring mods resigning posts on the hot meta posts was a thing on SO or metaSE

I've heard in the past of mods doing it, but didn't know it was a "thing", always thought it was an exception

Maybe because mods resigning is generally an exception.

(I wouldn't know otherwise.)

Can Unreal Engine be used to simulate an excavator?

What I don't get, though, is why some mods feel like they should expand a lot on why they resign...

Maybe! That will certainly not help them but maybe they feel like help the others?

@Vaillancourt Should be, I don't see why not

@TomTsagk I dunno :P I guess I'll have to try!

@Vaillancourt I can understand someone resigning because of some negative reasons, and want to make sure the community is aware, but ideally that shouldn't happen too often, if at all

@TomTsagk Yeah; ideally!

so... SE is going full PC huh ?