Game Development

12:18 AM

@Almo I checked after you talked about it, and it still seems a bit long and complex..

@Tyyppi_77 It reminds me of my old uncle who worked at the factory. He told me that him and his colleagues were so often telling the same jokes again and again that they decided to number them, and so to save time, they just told the joke number instead of telling the actual joke!

Alexandre Vaillancourt

1:51 AM

@Hakase This appears to be a misconception of earwigs, i.e. if you have an earwig problem, you have another smaller insect problem too. Getting rid of the earwig will get you rid of the symptom, not the issue. At least that's what I've understood from the wikipedia article I read. Where I live, it's rare to see them inside, they prefer to be outside. Thanks for the link though :)

Alex Mitan

6:03 AM

@Almo Windows is like a mouse covered in someone else's solidified hand grease, like it gets the job done, but deep down you know it's not completely yours

Alex Mitan

7:22 AM

Isn't it weird that most highly-voted questions are also "subjective" and often [closed]?

I get WHY, subjectiveness appeals to people as much as it's meant to... not be here. But still, I find it to be an interesting phenomenon

doppelgreener

8:00 AM

@Almo I won't object. :P Windows is fine with me. Haters gonna hate.

@TheMattbat999 I'm interested in making a 2D platformer to play around and later a 3D adventure game. Mostly I just want to learn, see how modern engines work, and get back into playing around with gamedev.

Since I'm only playing around at this stage I could just care solely about Windows.

@Almo mainly it's just way more comfortable for me. If I'm going to be staring at a screen all day I'd rather it be white on black than black on white; imitating paper wasn't great and means I'm basically staring at a lightbulb all day.

It's a fundamental UI choice now but I'll take my dark themes when I can.

The Masked Rebel

11:28 AM

@doppelgreener @AlexandreVaillancourt o/

doppelgreener

o/

The Masked Rebel

how are you

doppelgreener

A bit on edge, but OK.

doppelgreener

11:46 AM

→ 27 messages moved to Room for the discussion of Chimpro London my game

The Masked Rebel

12:07 PM

I need some help with c++ files

I need to convert them to .dll files but I dont have Visual Studio on my laptop

Can someone help me with this problem

@FreezePhoenix o/

FreezePhoenix

*glowers*

Almo

2:12 PM

@TheMaskedRebel Wow. that's just not a remotely reasonable thing to ask

You don't "convert" c++ files to dlls.

FreezePhoenix

you rename them :P

Almo

hahaha

@doppelgreener :D

kotaku.com/…

ASCII Doom

doppelgreener

2:32 PM

@TheMaskedRebel What you're looking for is a C++ compiler. Whatever it is, it can wait a day for you to get to your PC with visual studio and/or get a C++ compiler installed and set up on your laptop.

As a general guideline you shouldn't be asking people to grab your code and compile it for you.

(for like, so many reasons. several of them being security reasons and hassle—we have other things to do.)

Almo

sooo many reasons

DMGregory

Also, depending on how the project is set up, just getting it to compile for your target platform might itself be non-trivial.

Free Internet Points

0

Q: Unity LWRP & Projection Shader

I recently added the Lightweight Render Pipeline to my project as I'd like to start experimenting with Shadergraph to see if I can get a better basic understanding of shaders. Everything has gone pretty smoothly except the Shader used by my Projectors, the Projection Shader Standard asset no lon...

Alexandre Vaillancourt

3:03 PM

Good morning!

Alex Mitan

Hey!

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Well... as morning as it can be at 11 AM...

Jimmy

@AlexMitan I was going to write an answer on your "A*" question but I couldn't put enough substance into it. TL;DR: A* is just accelerated, weighted, breadth-first graph search. If you can come up with a graph representation that uses "threats/safety/resources" to calculate edge weights, you can use graph search

whether A* is the right algorithm for that depends on whether you can find a good admissible heuristic. Otherwise, I'd start with Djikstra's algorithm

Pikalek

Along the lines of "avoid premature optimization" I recall having read some advice about starting with Djikstra's as a default & only reaching for A* or something else if a performance issue warranted the switch.

Jimmy

3:19 PM

yeah, I suspect "A*" is just a catchy name so students tend to conflate it with any weighted graph search algorithm

Pikalek

In early undergrad, I was in a game dev based programming competition. One of the filters was essentially, "can you A*"? I weighted the experience too heavily & it became the first thing I reached for more often than it should have.

Almo

A* is more tunable for specific results though, isn't it?

I might be wrong

not an expert on this

DMGregory

In terms of output, Dijkstra & A* will produce the same results given the same goal/cost functions.

It's just that, with a good heuristic, A* will tend to search fewer nodes before reaching those results.

Pikalek

@DMGregory Correct.

Didn't find my source for the Dijsktra's vs A*, but this is just as good, if not better:

Rob Pike's 5 Rules of Programming

users.ece.utexas.edu/~adnan/pike.html

DMGregory

I think the trouble is folks start with a simple waypoint/target-seeking AI, where the solution is: "feed all the inputs into A*, then A* will tell the unit what to do" and extrapolate that to thinking of A* as an AI black box that they need to shoehorn all their behaviour into.

Pikalek

3:28 PM

Also, "When in doubt, use brute force." -- Ken Thompson

DMGregory

Rather than just the solution to the action-order-planning part, which was the only part those simpler AI needed.

@Pikalek "If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it" :)

Jimmy

"Just invent a better algorithm" - Donald Knuth

Pikalek

@Jimmy touché

Almo

@DMGregory Ah, ok thanks

Alex Mitan

Thanks, guys

I don't know though, I'm really grasping at straws these days, nothing works, or rather nothing seems worth working on

DMGregory

3:36 PM

One of my favourite and often-overlooked aspects of A* (or weighted graph search generally) is that you can use it to plan routes through "decision space" beyond just spatial pathfinding, like deciding when to use an item.

5

A: Tile Based A* Pathfinding, but with a bomb

The typical approach here would be to treat your remaining bomb count as an additional dimension in the pathfinding space. So given this situation 2 ↑ ──────┐ 1 ← o │ → │ 0 ↓ 0 1 2 Our tile at the o (1, 1, 4 bombs) has the following reachable neighbours in th...

Jimmy

oh ... that looks a lot like a question I answered elsewhere :)

21

Q: Pathfinding with lock and key?

I'm working on a game with maps that resemble lock and key puzzles. The AI needs to navigate to a goal that may be behind a locked red door, but the red key may be behind a locked blue door, and so on... This puzzle is similar to a Zelda-style dungeon, like this picture: To get to the ...

path-finding

user4704

@DMGregory Hah that's what I just talked about doing in answering that question :p

The Masked Rebel

o/

The Mattbat999

@doppelgreener just a word of warning (from doing this) when using the terrain and built-in AI system, don't place too many trees on a NavMesh terrain with AI or else your game will lag really bad.

DMGregory

Ooh, now you've got me thinking of using a fitness function to evaluate the AI's satisfaction with its current state, and pathfinding through this satisfaction state space for nearby optima to avoid threats / do stuff that's "generally good" without being an explicit "accomplish this now" goal.

Jimmy

3:41 PM

@Josh re ""Finding somewhere to go" is not, on the surface, what A* is about." it seems like it just takes a modification to change the if (current == goal) { return pathToCurrent; } bit to if (totalDistanceTraveled > threshold) { return searchHeap.top(); } to find a location

user4704

That's not A*.

user4704

A* is not "if current == goal"

Almo

@DMGregory hey, nice answer on that bomb A* thing. upvoted. :)

user4704

@DMGregory Yea that's roughly what I was thinking with my initial example, but I think it kind falls apart really because:

user4704

- satisfaction isn't digital, it's an analogue value and

doppelgreener

3:44 PM

@TheMattbat999 Is that in Unity or Godot? Thanks for the warning.

Jimmy

I wouldn't call it A*, but it's an analogue of an abstract version of A* with 'if goalFunction(searchState) return' with a different goalFunction

DMGregory

@Almo :) Thanks

user4704

- there's really no logical way to structure a graph of... what, emotions? or whatever you want to call it. The emotional/satisifaction state of the agent... that isn't basically fully-connected.

user4704

There's no reason you have to pathfind through "happy" to go from "sad" to "angry" basically.

user4704

I like the bomb example much better.

Almo

3:46 PM

Yay bomb example

Jimmy

do you have to path through happy?

there could just be an edge between sad and angry

user4704

That's what I said :P

The Masked Rebel

hey everyone

user4704

So you end up with a fully-connected graph, so you never really need to search to find a path.

user4704

There always is one.

Jimmy

3:47 PM

I mean, the there's no need to structure the graph of emotions, but you still have a graph of composite states, of which emotions is one component

Pikalek

@JoshPetrie how's your German?

Jimmy

like, state(inRoom, NEUTRAL) has a transition to state(inRoom, PANICED) via the edge "notice room is on fire", which has a transition to state (outsideRoom, PANICED) via the edge "gtfo of room"

user4704

@Pikalek Nonexistent.

Pikalek

image.slidesharecdn.com/…

user4704

Interesting.

Pikalek

3:49 PM

hmmm, well I'll see if I can find something in !German then...

The Masked Rebel

:'(

DMGregory

@JoshPetrie I was imagining the satisfaction state as being an outcome of evaluating a node. So the agent doesn't directly decide to move between sad and happy. Instead it evaluates the result of each potential decision as "does the result of this decision sequence make me more happy?" Kind of like the way a minimax tree might fall back on a heuristic when it reaches the limits of its evaluation depth.

user4704

Mm, yeah.

DMGregory

So the agent doesn't plan a perfect route to completion of a long-term goal, but follows what "feels right" in the short term. To use A* though you'd need an admissible heuristic for satisfaction, which limits your choices a bit.

Pikalek

@TheMaskedRebel That's only a graph of one emotion - no need to run A*, the starting node is also the goal. ;)

Jimmy

3:54 PM

The only issue is that "does this make me more happy" might depend on a bunch of factors which all need to be encoded in state, since the transition function should be a pure function

The Masked Rebel

@Pikalek LOL

The Mattbat999

@doppelgreener Unity. Never user Godot.

Alex Mitan

Man, ECS seems so beautiful

DMGregory

@Jimmy Yeah. I'm thinking something simple like anxiety = sum of inverse-distance to nearest threats, satiation - count of stored resources, anticipation = sum of inverse-distance to nearest resource sources. Happiness = satiation + anticipation - anxiety with appropriate weights.

doppelgreener

@TheMattbat999 ok, cheers.

@AlexMitan very very

user4704

3:59 PM

@AlexMitan Everything is beautiful in Happy Exampleville.

doppelgreener

@JoshPetrie dystopian Happy Exampleville. Do not stray beyond its bounds, kind citizen.

Alex Mitan

My tree thing is a bit more coupled than I thought, but I don't think that's what's putting me off as much as the fact that I have yet to have a playable game of any sort

I think I might have bitten off too much at once

I should have a simple small game that I test out architectures with

doppelgreener

What've you bitten off?

user4704

Don't get trapped by silly design trends.

user4704

Yes. Starting with a simple game and focusing on making it do stuff that games do is generally better than trying to chase the latest and greatest architecture fad to ground before making any gameplay.

2

Alex Mitan

4:02 PM

@JoshPetrie I wanted to make a strategy game of sorts from the get-go rather than a simpler more fun game

Jimmy

but make an attempt to keep your code decoupled and flexible so when you run into some problem later down the road you can refactor it

Alex Mitan

ok, to hell with it, I'm making a runner game now, you just run and jump and try not to fall

user4704

A strategy game seems doable, depending on your level of experience as a programmer.

The Mattbat999

@doppelgreener cheers? :P

doppelgreener

@TheMattbat999 british/aussie version of thank you :)

The Mattbat999

4:05 PM

@doppelgreener OH

Alex Mitan

@JoshPetrie I'm decent, but it's so far from anything interactive that I'm losing interest and doubt about how I'm building it is creeping in

doppelgreener

@AlexMitan Focus on gameplay over building up engine features because you think you'll need them

Add interactive bits o/

user4704

Yes, that.

user4704

Do what you need to do (or think you need to do) to get to gameplay and fun as quickly as you can.

user4704

Good architecture can come later through refactoring if needed.

doppelgreener

4:20 PM

Part of this is working on keeping development engaging for yourself also.

And chasing engine features down a rabbit hole isn't fun.

(especially because you won't need them... unless you actually need them right now)

2

(source)

The Masked Rebel

Switching to lurk mode

user92578

4:38 PM

I gotta leave back :/

user92578

Luckily just 4 days before next weekend off

user92578

I sent in my application for various programming/computer related jobs today, hopefully I'll get one so I only need to run in the woods for 6 more weeks

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@Tyyppi_77 Are these military related?

Jimmy

Maybe you can get assigned to the cyberwar division :) Elect a better American president for us in the next election

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@Jimmy Why? This one makes hell of a show for us outside of the US :P

Jimmy

4:47 PM

up to you, but you have to pay tariffs to watch the show

Alexandre Vaillancourt

I know :(

user92578

5:02 PM

@AlexandreVaillancourt yup

user92578

So the main one I applied to is someone who works on a military version of ArmA3, adding new content and training people to use it

user92578

Then as a secondary choise there were cyberwar stuff and just random generic programming

user4704

"training people to use it"

user4704

Yeah, Arma does require dedicated training to play.

user4704

>_<

user92578

5:05 PM

lol

user4704

I remember I picked it up a while back to try and play with my brothers

user4704

Spent a few hours trying to figure out how to set up a campaign of some sort and deal with all the DLC upsells and finally gave up an returned it

user92578

Given my gamedev experience i thought i might be a good fit for that job and might even have a chance to get it

user92578

I really dont want to spend a year running in the woods

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 But think how swole you'll get.

user4704

5:06 PM

/flex

user92578

lol dunno, i feel like most of the time I'd just be aching everywhere

user92578

I am in terrible starting shape

user92578

5:19 PM

I bought a backup power source and got netflix on my phone, hoping to watch something here and there on freetime this week

user4704

Don't watch Lost in Space. It's bad.

user92578

A new season of Archer came out, its a bit odd but might do the job of providing something else to think about

user92578

When it comes to more serious shows, I've really gotten into crime stuff lately

user92578

Mindhunter was really good

user92578

So was American Crime Story (just one season on Finnish netflix tho :( ), and manhunt: unabomber

DMGregory

5:29 PM

@JoshPetrie My roomie and I actually enjoyed that one. The technobabble was a bit painful at times, but mainly because it was at least close enough to actually evaluate it in the vague proximity of real science, which is rare for mass-market sci-fi like that. ;) I thought their take on Dr. Smith was pretty excellent.

user4704

I like Smith.

user4704

I don't like the rest of the writing though; a lot of it seems jumped around, characters making nonsense decisions that don't seem to otherwise fit their alleged abilities

user4704

Nonsense science and editing.

user4704

I do like the red-headed snarky teenager and Dr. Smith though. Everybody else could have died on the ship and I'd be fine with it.

Almo

@JoshPetrie hahaha

which one

recent tv show, movie remake

user4704

5:32 PM

@Almo The new Netflix one.

Almo

ah ok

:)

Alexandre Vaillancourt

6:09 PM

You know when cppcheck reports that the other of the parameters of a function are not the same in the declaration and in the definition...

user4704

void f(int x, int y); void f(int y, int x) { ...lol... }

Alexandre Vaillancourt

It's the beginning of an interesting story to tell :P

@JoshPetrie Yeah; in this case it's min and max that have been inverted!

user4704

Ouch.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Fortunately, in this specific case, it's for "use these values if you can't find them in the resource file", which never happens. But that still took some time to figure out.

I managed to convert our SVN repo to a git repo! :P (we won't be using it, but I liked the challenge!)

Jimmy

6:38 PM

useful for the next time your server is unavailable

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Yeah; for that I'd prefer an SVN replication server, though.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

6:51 PM

@Jimmy I wonder if it would be a bit faster to search the logs, though (a local git repo vs the SVN server).

Jimmy

I haven't touched SVN in a decade; can't really comment on log search times

but balance that with for anything harder than "git log | grep foo" I would have to look up whatever arcane invocation of "git filter-branch" I need

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Yeah, I haven't worked that much with git, so I would not know..

Alex Mitan

8:02 PM

VOILA! PROTOTYPES!

user4704

See, there you go.

Alex Mitan

That was really hard

And a loooot of the code is super wrong, like... when an enemy collides with a bullet, the enemy deletes the bullet

Also, polish is super easy

user4704

That's not "wrong" per se.

Alex Mitan

It took me under half an hour to add explosions and stars... and this is technically my first finished game

user4704

(to have the enemy delete the bullet.)

Alex Mitan

8:08 PM

Well, yeah, there's just a lot of weird coupling that screams for a remake in ECS

which is my next step

user4704

You don't need ECS to "solve" that either.

user4704

ECS is not a magic bullet.

3

Almo

^

Alex Mitan

I know, but I'd like it as the next experiment

user4704

Then make sure you determine what you need your entity system to solve beforehand.

user4704

8:20 PM

Don't implement what other people tell you an entity system "needs."

doppelgreener

@AlexMitan i agree that's not wrong

there's probably a lot of published games that are doing that

because it works and causes no problems and they don't need to change it

it's coupling and that's bad in theory, but also bad in theory is getting caught up making the perfect system instead of publishing your game

user4704

I find it annoying, personally, but the only real "problem" is that you need to answer the question: "who is responsible for taking the authoritative actions in any given interaction between A and B."

user4704

And in some cases it's hard to answer that question generally, so you have to keep thinking about it for every interaction between A and B.

user4704

There's no actual coupling issue in this specific case, really, unless ships don't already know about bullets from firing them.

Alex Mitan

8:39 PM

Is it fine to remove an item from a hash table by just deleting the obj[key]?

user4704

Depends on the language/libary/etc.

Alex Mitan

vanilla js, storing objects by id in a hash table

user4704