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Pip
12:11 AM
Alright, first release released
Can't dev Envio at school because Unity doesn't run on the laptop that I bring to school
Also, was fed up with some quirks in SFML
so, here is born ReclusionEngine
 
mine will be better! D:
as soon as OMG finishes the insanely long example code XD
 
@IcyDefiance I am punching it as we type
it's not long, it's just fiddly
 
Pip
:D
 
URGH
SFINAE is a pain
 
lol
I'm starting to think it wouldn't be enough anyway...I mean it looks powerful, but I'd have to outline every combination of subtypes, not just every possible subtype, right?
though I haven't figured out how to do that yet either
it's definitely complicated
 
12:23 AM
not every combination no, I've found a way around that
 
ooh okay
 
otherwise it'd be silly having to write that many versions :P
 
lol yeah
 
ooo I've had a simpler idea
still SFINAE, but simpler aha
 
12:41 AM
@IcyDefiance it's getting late and I have work tomorrow. The simpler idea I got was to create a type_trait called HasA to check if the type had member A, and if it doesn't just return empty string, if it does then return "whatever"
If you're still on this tomorrow I may carry on
SFINAE is one of those things I try to avoid ;P
but yeah, type traits are the key here
night
 
Pip
night
 
@OMGtechy yeah...there has to be a better way. thanks for the effort anyway, though.
 
Joe
anyone buy these yet?
 
not I
 
1:13 AM
@SpartanDonut dood we're getting the MS dev account set up, so it looks like we'll be doing the submission.
if the free account gives you all the tools you need to make the program then that's how we'll proceed
 
theme music drop!
@Joe I have, worth it if you prototype a lot :)
 
Joe
I am thinking I will, just because Im realizing how much time i waste on art for stuff I dont even persue
 
it's worth even if you make only one prototype
also to me it's still worth it even if I didn't use it at all
that guy is just a hero
 
@Almo sounds good
 
Joe
1:32 AM
is a gold watch synonymous with retirement? or is that connection too loose?
 
user4704
I don't think it is.
 
user4704
Not any more.
 
Joe
yea I thought it was slim
 
make it a pocketwatch and people will assume the guy is old and rich, which of course implies retirement :P
 
not synonymous or not too loose?
 
1:34 AM
well, either old and rich, or british
 
I know people with gold watches and they are nowhere near retirement, they just have put all their money on that gold watch
 
Joe
Im trying to build a visual pun without text
 
I inherited a gold pocket watch from my grandpa
I'm far from retired
 
you must be british then
 
Joe
just thought the 90s cop movie "retirement = gold watch" cliche might work
 
1:36 AM
As is my grandpa... just the other direction xD
 
meh this mesh class is getting annoying. my best ideas are just renaming the gl functions, not simplifying anything.
lack of type introspection is hard to deal with
 
refactoring?
 
making a new framework in C++
 
Honestly that's probably how I would start
wrap the senseless C++ syntax of the gl shit into something more sensible, even if it's just renaming functions and parameters
Then build that into a more usable framework
That said I've not worked with it so I don't know how good or bad the native gl stuff is
I just remember the DirectX api being a real pain lol
 
yeah GL is harder to learn than DX, though personally I think it's easier to work with once you do know it
it's mostly that learning curve I want to improve. I want things to just make sense.
I also want it to take fewer than 10 lines of code to tell the framework how to send vertex data to the shader, lol
with type introspection I just need to loop through the members of the vertex struct and run the GL functions based on that. it's really simple.
C++ doesn't have type introspection though
 
1:46 AM
I think when I'm going to design my next framework I'd just wrap the GL objects in classes, like vbo as one, vao as one and fbo as one
then work from there
I've partly done so in my current framework project
C++ supports type introspection via the typeid and dynamic_cast keywords. The dynamic_cast expression can be used to determine whether a particular object is of a particular derived class. For instance:

if (Person *p == dynamic_cast<Person *>(obj)) {
  p->walk();
}
The typeid operator retrieves a std::type_info object describing the most derived type of an object:

if (typeid(Person) == typeid(*obj)) {
  serialize_person( obj );
}
@IcyDefiance how old c++ you are programming with? :P
 
yeah dynamic_cast can do that test, but it can't tell me "this has 3 members: 2xVec3 and 1xVec2"
the SFINAE thing that OMGtechy was talking about earlier can do a lot more tests, but using it to loop through member variables is some holy shit kind of complicated, if it's even possible
 
I guess I'm not understanding at all what you are trying to do then :(
 
basically, when I instantiate a Mesh<T>, where T is the Vertex type, Mesh should then call glVertexAttribPointer() for each variable inside T
 
make T to be inherited from abstract class that defines the functions for that?
of course that would be a lot of copypasting but then you'd get correct behaviour for each type
 
right, that's my best solution so far. I'd need something like XNA's IVertexType and VertexDeclaration. msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb976065.aspx
it just seems horribly redundant and I dislike redundancy
 
1:59 AM
I take that this is not an option:
        public void Upload()
        {
            if(vertsDirty && verts != null && VertexAttribLocation > -1)
            {
                vertsDirty = false;

                if (vertVbo == 0) GL.GenBuffers(1, out vertVbo);

                UploadData(vertVbo, BufferTarget.ArrayBuffer, verts.Length * Vector3.SizeInBytes, verts);
            }

            if (normsDirty && norms != null && NormalAttribLocation > -1)
            {
                normsDirty = false;

                if (normVbo == 0) GL.GenBuffers(1, out normVbo);
that'd just be a mesh class without T
 
yeah that would be setting the vertex structure in stone, which for a normal 3D mesh would be great, but for a particle system...not so much
 
no not really, that's fully dynamic, there can be any kind of data and in any order
also I'd just use completly different thing for particles anyway
 
maybe I don't understand. looks like your function requires 5xVector3 and a Vector4 per vertex
well some of those might be optional
but if I wanted to use 2xVector3 and a Vector2 I'd be screwed
 
hmm, right, but I still don't see a problem here, why not use 2d arrays for each different possible type?
float[][] floats;
Vec2[][] vec2s;
Vec3[][] vec3s;
then just find the locations for each one and assign them by their name in the shader
of course I'm not thinking about optimization here at all, just to make it work
 
that is incredibly ugly, but the concept is awesome. I could probably use dictionaries to give the arrays names, or maybe even work some template magic to resolve things at compile time...
you may have just set me on the right track
 
2:13 AM
I like to give new ideas
let me know if it worked out, I might do it myself some day
I'm gonna retry sleeping, still got 4 hours left before waking up
 
good luck
 
 
2 hours later…
Joe
4:26 AM
for anyone whos interested... I GIVE YOU PROGRESS: josephjaniga.com/public/media/TutorialRoomsOneAndTwo.mp4
its not much, but its what I got!... and with that its bed time see yall in the morning
 
4:52 AM
@GnomeSlice thanks :) I find myself using it too now which is always a good sign!
@Joe nice, keep at it :D
 
 
1 hour later…
6:22 AM
I am awakened O_O
oh wait
8_8
 
6:37 AM
Hello ..
 
7:10 AM
Morning
 
 
2 hours later…
9:17 AM
sup
 
9:35 AM
Whee, just got four HotS keys in my email. :D
 
where's mine?
 
I maybe have one extra key I can give to someone in this room who doesn't have HotS yet and lives in EU.
 
@Lasse that is one very unimpressed cat
@Lokkij how do you apply for them ?
I think I only have beta access atm
unless beta ended
 
If you're already in you have a chance to receive extra keys to give out to friends
 
oh ... do they just send them out then?
 
9:43 AM
Yep
 
ah ok ... i'll prob get some soon then
hopefully around the time my new screens turn up :)
Looks like I have to wait til monday :(
 
:(
 
Can't wait ... gonna have tons of pixels!!!
 
Pip
10:08 AM
lol
@Wardy I have a HoTS NA key if you live in NA instead of EU
 
I'm already in on beta @pip ... I should get a key soon
 
Pip
kk
 
i'm in the UK ... so i'm on the EU servers
 
Pip
I just got four the other day, was just offering :)
 
thanks though
 
Pip
10:11 AM
np
 
lol great start for this guy ...
-1
Q: i wish to port MMORPGS

Theoi am wanting to start up my own publishing company to port games of the JRPG0MMO (Japaneses role playing games massive mulitplayer) to the western audiences to translate and localize for EU based servers. there is NO information on where to even begin any help?

 
Oh dear
He's not going to get very far
 
Yeah
Fun times
Why does no one here have sufficient rep to vote to close =[
 
Jon
10:31 AM
i do
 
i did close vote it too
 
Jon
failed before he even got started
his idea of getting into the gaming market is pretty strange.
I highly doubt that publishers are going to hand over their IP to a random guy that wants to start a company.
 
its getting worse lol ...
-3
Q: i wish to port MMORPGS

Theoi am wanting to start up my own publishing company to port games of the JRPG0MMO (Japaneses role playing games massive mulitplayer) to the western audiences to translate and localize for EU based servers. there is NO information on where to even begin any help?

1 rep ... with 3 down votes
ouch!
@Jon i completely agree
 
Jon
It is sad.
 
I at least told him that's what he would have to do
 
Jon
10:34 AM
Also, a company would approach a studio to do the port, not the other way around , lol
 
if by some random stroke of luck it works though good for him
 
Jon
yah right
 
his chances are virtually nil
 
Jon
not only that, but he is looking for someone to tell him how to do it
A true entrepreneur figures it out
Hey, I want to start a company, but there are no tutorials online. Can someone tell me how?
 
ROFL
good point
 
Jon
10:42 AM
NO SHIT SHERLOCK
 
Canadians spend between $100 and $212 a month
WTF
that's insane
 
Jon
my internet is 100$ month
my phone is 80$ /month
so after taxes and everything.. i'm close to 200
possibly even over
 
hmmm actually thinking about this
 
Jon
Many consider communications services essential, so they’re making cuts in other areas, such as food, as bills go up.
lol. wut?
internet > food apparently
 
$100 is £66.96 according to google
That's a touch higher than my Virgin contract per month
and i'm not on the top package
 
Jon
10:44 AM
Yeah, it is a known fact that canadians pay some of the highest prices for internet / phone in the world
 
I basically get a phone line, freeview tv channels on the tivo and my broadband
but for that I'm getting 150mb/s
I doubt many canadians get anyhting like that
So I would say its pretty high but not yet excessive
 
Jon
150 MB or megabits?
 
megabits per second
 
Jon
i get 75mbps
so half at double the price
 
that's typical BT in the UK (for the select few near a fibre exchange)
 
Jon
10:47 AM
one of the comments: Grow up and disconnect.
 
lol
that's almost as bad as "just move out"
 
Jon
And the worst thing about it, is that the service sucks
it is the worst service you will ever get
treated like a piece of shit
and you pay a great deal for it
wow... reading through the comments, there are a lot of idiots
i ihad to stop.. it was pissing me off
 
is it Jon grumbling about his ISP again?
 
some of them have a point though
service provision is more expensive in canada
and you end up reaching less heads per piece of cable too
 
Pip
@Sword yes
 
Jon
10:50 AM
that is the only point.
but remote users pay more
so....
 
of course the other way applies in london
everyone pays for say "up to 75mbps" every gets "5mbps on a fast day"
so really broadband in london is no cheaper than in canada
per mbps
luckily im not in london
 
London:
 
that's not a consumer grade ISP connection nor does your line use BT infrastructure by the looks of it
 
... I wasn't gonna ping you =p
 
@fredley nice :D
 
10:57 AM
@fredley you paying for a business line there?
 
@Wardy My business is
 
I bet that costs too
thousands per year
 
@Wardy It's just a fibre line. I don't think it's anything particularly special, infrastructure wise. It's not a leased line.
It is in a part of London that has had significant investment in internet infrastructure though.
 
yeh there's a few "hot spots" but I bet there are either no residential blocks for a fair distance or those that do exist couldn't get that kind of connection if they wanted it without paying a business rate
What you have there is basically an exception to the general rule I would say
typically that's london
 
@Wardy I a 2 minute walk from this office :-)
 
11:05 AM
pringles pot antenna ... grab a wifi from connection from it at home :)
 
@fredley did you accidentally a word?
 
@KevinvanderVelden Yes I
 
I'm assuming the word is live?
 
@Wardy I should try tunnelling through work
 
the difference between a business line and a consumer line in london
 
11:07 AM
@KevinvanderVelden could be. Could be 'camp', 'cry', 'drink coffee', almost anything.
 
@fredley "I drink coffee a 2 minute walk from this office". Nah doesn't fit
 
It's business.
It's business time
@KevinvanderVelden This is true.
 
Unless you accidentally another word
 
Jon
ugh
great, our all mighty leader has declared he wants canada to fight ISIS
my tax dollars are being well spent
 
At least ISIS is an actual group of people and not a bloody concept
 
11:11 AM
meh ... its only the canadian gov
what they gonna do to "fight" complain ?
 
Jon
the problem with going out and killing people.. is you paint a target on your back
I don't want a target on my back, quite frankly i don't want to get invovled in a fight that has nothing to do with me
 
welcome to politics
 
Canada isn't their particular flavour of islam, you already have a target on your back
 
Jon
i am all for wiping out religion from the face of the planet
because without religion, this shit wouldn't be going on
 
Humanity would probably find new reasons, but it'd seriously help, probably
It would remove a great deal of making people "Other"
 
11:14 AM
@Jon i completely agree
 
Jon
religion currently serves as a way to separate people
and create wars
fuck religion, and its control it has over weak minded individuals
 
look at history ... pretty much all wars have been fought because of some religious aspect
 
I'm not disagreeing mind
 
Jon
i told my g/f that when I die, i don't want any religious bullshit tied to any of my funeral proceedings
i want it to be `100% religious free
she started to argue with me
saying other people are religious
 
yeh i'm thinking the same about marriage too
why all the religious crap
 
Jon
11:17 AM
but yeah -- thats my stand.
i'm hungry.
gonna go out and get a coffee and muffin or something
 
good plan ... now i'm thinking that too ...
 
Jon
heh, aight, bbl
 
Jon
11:39 AM
almost was a bad idea to go out
some teenager came literally 1cm away from hitting my truck on the drive side door
heh.. cisco voip phones apparently are vulnerable... we just bought a bunch of them at work
sounds like the voip team is gonna be busy for the next little while.
 
A lot of VOIP phones are vulnerable
Quite a few are tiny linux pcs, with auto update systems, which get their information via DHCP
 
Jon
this vulnerability allows for phones calls to be eavesdropped on... or even remote calls to be made
which is pretty serious
 
Jon
you know about this Freedom of Information Act?
you are allowed to request information from government, in canada and france anyways, for any governmental document
and they have 60 days to give it to you or something along those lines.
Well in France, apparently, someone was requesting source code
 
Haha wow
 
Pip
11:50 AM
Any C++ people here?
 
Jon
So in France, now a source code file is considered a document
that can be requested...
:/
i used to do c++
 
Pip
alright, you might be able to help
I have: src/main.cpp:16:45: error: invalid new-expression of abstract class type ‘Sprite’
however, Sprite isn't an abstract class, but inherits from one
 
Jon
do you use new baseClassType()?
 
Pip
I don't think so
header for Sprite looks like this:
#include "IDrawable.h"
#include "Texture.h"
#include <string>

class Sprite: public IDrawable {
public:
	Sprite(std::string filename);
	~Sprite();

	std::string filename;

	void draw(sf::RenderTarget& target, sf::RenderStates states = sf::RenderStates::Default);

private:
	sf::Sprite* sprite; // Reference with *this->sprite to dereference the pointer
	Texture* texture;
};
 
Jon
ah.. you are probably missing something from the abstract class
 
Pip
11:53 AM
base class:
#include <SFML/Graphics.hpp>

class IDrawable: public sf::Drawable
{
public:
	IDrawable();
	virtual ~IDrawable();
	virtual void draw(sf::RenderTarget& target, sf::RenderStates states);
};
 
Jon
yeah
 
Pip
the IDrawable draw used to be =0
I took it out, still happening
 
Jon
you need a blank constructor
 
Pip
uh
oh
 
Jon
since you have one in your abstract
 
Pip
11:54 AM
dang
 
@Jon, nope, no need for that
 
Jon
or you can fix your abstract constructor
 
sf::Drawable is abstract
Oh
Uhm
virtual void draw(sf::RenderTarget& target, sf::RenderStates states);
is const
Fix that and it'll work
(Just mark the draw method as const (add it before the semicolon))
 
Pip
huh, alright
 
Jon
ah
 
Pip
11:57 AM
nope, that didn't fix
@Jon oh man Monty Python
 
But yeah, invalid new-expression of abstract class is always "You have a pure virtual somewhere". It doesn't even get to the point of constructors
 
Jon
did you try adding a blank constructor?
 
@Pip remove the sf::Drawable bit
 
Pip
It didn't work D:<
not yet
@KevinvanderVelden alright
wait what
 
@Jon 3 cans back to front, 1 can missing.
 
Pip
11:58 AM
remove the
 
class IDrawable: public sf::Drawable, make that not extend sf::Drawable
 
Jon
1 can is upside down
can you find it?
2 cans
 
Pip
@KevinvanderVelden why? Doesn't it say to inherit from that?
 
Jon
add blank constructor
 
@Pip yes, this is a test
 
Pip
11:58 AM
alright
 
If I'm correct it'll fix the new-expression of abstract class thing
If I'm not you can try @Jon's thing =p
 
Jon
lol
and if my fix doesn't work you are screwed.
 
Pip
whops
 

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