Game Development

If we're going to explicitly call out everything that we don't like and so won't use, we're going to be here all day. I, for one, dislike olives and so will not have them in my sandwich. Or more relevantly, I'm not a big fan of Eclipse, and so am not going to use it.

Icy Defiance

@TrevorPowell it was relevant to the subject

Alex M.

it's Apple's business what they want and what they don't want

Trevor Powell

No, you don't understand, @IcyDefiance. I'm saying that I don't like Eclipse. I don't like what it forces me to install, and so I'm not going to use it.

Alex M.

and it's our business whether we comply with theirs

and that's where this discussion ends

Icy Defiance

@TrevorPowell good for you, but still not relevant to the subject

Trevor Powell

12:04 AM

@IcyDefiance It's unfair that Eclipse requires me to install their whole software stack. That's what I'm saying. I'm not going to use it -- that's the whole point.

Alex M.

gah, I wasted 10+ minutes on this bullshit

all because of some guy who can't afford macs

I should be more careful next time

Icy Defiance

@Alex I think you're completely misinterpreting what we meant by "should", but I'm not sure how it can be misinterpreted, so I have no idea how to explain it.

@TrevorPowell good, find another piece of software then. maybe google makes something better. that's lost popularity for eclipse, so if they want it back, they should change that.

Trevor Powell

@IcyDefiance No, you misunderstand -- I do want to use Eclipse, but I think that I shouldn't have to install the whole thing. They should cater to my every whim and give me everything for free in exactly the way that I want, or I'm going to bitch and moan about it in chat forever because I'm entitled to have everything I want right now and for free.

Icy Defiance

and that's a scarecrow fallacy

it has nothing to do with what Adrian and I were saying

Trevor Powell

Conversation over now, please? :)

Alex M.

12:07 AM

I totally get the physics incidents now though

Icy is a pain to talk to

Icy Defiance

not sure how you can say something fantastically, out of the park, batshit insane, having nothing to do with a single word I've spoken during this entire discussion, claim it represents my view, then try to end the conversation like you somehow "won"

but okay

Alex M.

@TrevorPowell what Icy is trying to say is "if Apple knows what's good for them, they should make iOS development available on Windows so they can get more developers", most likely

Trevor Powell

(@JoshPetrie is gonna kick my ass)

Icy Defiance

@AlexM. still not quite right, but a lot closer

Alex M.

which kinda makes him look like a funny Apple marketing advisor thingy

hasherr

12:10 AM

Knock it off.

I don't expect everyone in the room to get along 100% of the time, but if you're gonna bitch then go make a private room.

Icy Defiance

really it's a lot simpler than that. I would just like to develop for iOS on Windows. I don't like that Apple forces me to buy an entirely new computer, hardware and everything, just to develop, not for that computer, but for their mobile devices. that's all.

Alex M.

@IcyDefiance send your suggestion to Apple, what can I say

Icy Defiance

but "apple doesn't force you to develop for them"

Alex M.

tell them you logically deduced their aims are at getting more developers, and that their business model for it sucks

Icy Defiance

31 secs ago, by Icy Defiance

really it's a lot simpler than that. I would just like to develop for iOS on Windows. I don't like that Apple forces me to buy an entirely new computer, hardware and everything, just to develop, not for that computer, but for their mobile devices. that's all.

anything you add to that message or try to interpret into it are your words, not mine

which is all you've done this entire conversation

Alex M.

12:13 AM

we didn't skew your words, we just shared our opinion regarding them

Icy Defiance

you shared your opinion on things I didn't say

which is fine, you can do that, but then expect me to object to it

Alex M.

not really, I didn't

there would have been no need

hasherr

trustedreviews.com/news/…

Motorola confirms plans to launch £30 smartphone

Alex M.

"really it's a lot simpler than that. I would just like to develop for iOS on Windows. I don't like that Apple forces me to buy an entirely new computer, hardware and everything, just to develop, not for that computer, but for their mobile devices. that's all." translates to "I don't like what Apple's services require. I want them to offer different services."

am I right?

Icy Defiance

there was no need, but you thought there was because you tried to interpret a lot more into what was said than what was meant

Trevor Powell

12:15 AM

@hasherr Kind of amusing that the product shot is showing us the back of the phone, rather than its face. :)

Alex M.

I dunno, I'm the one using the least words here

@IcyDefiance you say very little in so many words

hasherr

@TrevorPowell What we don't see should scare us more than what we do.

:P

Trevor Powell

@hasherr I'm hoping that that turns out to actually be the face of the phone. xD

hasherr

It'd be cool if the design of the front was like that and then when you touch it it fades away to the actually screen

Leathe

isn't that a picture of the Motorola Moto X tho?

Trevor Powell

12:17 AM

Don't think you'd be getting that for $50, though. ;)

Icy Defiance

@AlexM. probably because of how eager every single person on the entire fucking internet is to misinterpret everything I say. I try to be specific when I talk, so I can just quote myself later to shut down the morons who read 3 words of my message and think they have an infallible idea of what I was trying to say.

Trevor Powell

(Yes, it's a picture of the Moto X)

Alex M.

@IcyDefiance lol chill dude

hasherr

@IcyDefiance Stop talking.

@AlexM. Stop replying.

Alex M.

I don't like KFC forcing me to buy Pepsi when I actually want Coke, but you don't see me doing what you do lol

Leathe

12:18 AM

@hasherr Stop hashing.

hasherr

@Leathe Never.

Icy Defiance

@AlexM. what did I do, exactly?

other than going to Wendy's instead because their frosties are fucking awesome

Leathe

wtf is Wendy's?

Alex M.

trying to prove there's a point in telling everyone in the chatroom that there's a point in saying you're dissatisfied with a product on a chatroom

Leathe

(I get it's a fast-foodish place, based on the context, but..)

Icy Defiance

12:20 AM

@Leathe a fast food chain with bacon cheeseburgers, frosties, and the best fast food fries in existence. probably US only though.

@AlexM. saying I was dissatisfied with the product was perfectly relevant to the conversation at the time.

Leathe

we don't even have KFC here. daaamn

Icy Defiance

your responses to that statement were what caused this whole thing

Alex M.

... conversation which was between me and that other guy

sorry man but you totally entered the conversation with

33 mins ago, by Icy Defiance

@AlexM. no, he wants to develop for their products without paying for another product that's completely unrelated other than being developed by the same company

Icy Defiance

if we were talking about fast food chains and I said I don't go to burger king because their food doesn't taste very good, that would be the same thing, but apparently it's wrong for me to go to Wendy's instead because "burger king doesn't force me to eat there"

Alex M.

which put you in my LOS

Icy Defiance

12:23 AM

27 secs ago, by Icy Defiance

if we were talking about fast food chains and I said I don't go to burger king because their food doesn't taste very good, that would be the same thing, but apparently it's wrong for me to go to Wendy's instead because "burger king doesn't force me to eat there"

seriously

that's a summary of the entire conversation

Alex M.

" but apparently it's wrong for me to go to Wendy's instead because "burger king doesn't force me to eat there"

where the heck did this come from

Leathe

ah. but a burger king we do have here! opened up last month

Icy Defiance

that's your only argument against my dislike of Apple's hoops

and it makes just as much sense

Alex M.

that's totally not what I said

Icy Defiance

25 mins ago, by Alex M.

I never felt Apple forced me to do anything :\

Alex M.

12:25 AM

yup

Icy Defiance

27 mins ago, by Alex M.

@AidanMueller nobody forces you to develop for iOS

Alex M.

I just ignore apple development

Icy Defiance

well duh

just like I don't go to burger king

Alex M.

where do I say it's wrong to develop for Android because Apple doesn't force you to develop for their platforms?

because that's what you said I said

Icy Defiance

that is the only argument you've given against me saying I don't like Apple's hoops

Alex M.

12:26 AM

WHERE

Icy Defiance

oh, and "Apple doesn't care if you don't like it"

Alex M.

yeah, still not == "it's wrong to develop for Android because Apple doesn't force you to develop for their platforms"

dude, all I'm saying is

it's your business whether or not you like what Apple does

Icy Defiance

right, okay, that part is more like you assuming that I really want to go to BK and I'm trying to get BK to improve their food so I can go there, then refusing to accept it when I say that no, I really don't want to go to BK at all

Leathe

I've read that sentence within the quotation marks three times now. I still can't make any sense of it.

Alex M.

so telling us whether or not you like what Apple does is...

Icy Defiance

12:28 AM

which is why I was saying over and over that your statements aren't relevant

they had nothing to do with what I was saying

Alex M.

dunno, pointless in its essence

because in reality we don't care

so trying to prove there's a point in relaying your feels to us

Icy Defiance

well you don't care now, but like I said, it was relevant to the topic at the time

Alex M.

just won't get you anywhere

Icy Defiance

and I never tried to prove there's a point either

Alex M.

of course you did

you were all "that's the point"

Icy Defiance

12:29 AM

the only thing I've done this entire time is try to convince you that I really don't want to eat at BK, while you tell me over and over that I do want to eat at BK and I'm trying to get BK to improve their food

fuck this, it's just going in circles while you try to put words into my mouth and refuse to accept that I never said anything even remotely close to what you're trying to say I said

I'm done now

Alex M.

this ain't the first time we have this sort of discussion really

Icy Defiance

no shit

Alex M.

you're just horrible to argue with every now and then

I'm starting to think it wasn't Mick that had to be muted back then

Icy Defiance

might be more enjoyable if you actually argue against what I say instead of some scarecrow 10 miles away from me

Almo

BK fries are pretty good

ToddersLegrande

12:31 AM

BK puts mayo on everything. Drives me nuts

Icy Defiance

you think? I don't remember their fries, just the burgers.

Almo

@AlexM. somehow, I doubt that. Without meaning disrespect to him, he does freak out at times.

ToddersLegrande

I order a double cheeseburger... they accidentally give me a double whopper... they're like... THATS OK HAVE THE WHOPPER INSTEAD

Almo

I don't eat burgers at fast food unless it's wendy's

Leathe

Disregard previous conversation. ITC: burgers and bacon (also fries).

ToddersLegrande

12:32 AM

I say no :(

Alex M.

@Almo Icy would make anyone freak out provided they had medium patience

Almo

never ever had a burger at burger king or mcdonalds

Icy Defiance

@AlexM. hmm, insults now. vOv

Almo

oop LoL game starting. I'm Garen top. talk to you later :)

Alex M.

@IcyDefiance I insulted you more directly earlier

ToddersLegrande

12:32 AM

@IcyDefiance BK has changed their fries like 5 times in the last 2 years (this is an exaggeration but they've done it a lot)

Alex M.

you also called me a moron, which was more direct than I did

so I think we're even

Almo

you are a moron though. ;)

Alex M.

shut up elmo ;)

Icy Defiance

I ignore insults that are part of a real argument. if it's an insult and nothing else, then I say something about it.

Almo

you know moron, imbecile, and fool were technical terms?

ToddersLegrande

12:33 AM

WHY ISNT ANYONE INSULTING ME DAMNIT

not feeling the love </3

Leathe

fuck you @ToddersLegrande

Alex M.

@ToddersLegrande shut up toddlers lesmalls

Almo

when the char in WB cartoon says "you can't fool me because I'm a moron" had real meaning in a medical sense.

ToddersLegrande

@AlexM. OH NO U DIDNT

Leathe

I was half expecting it to censor "fuck". :F

Alex M.

12:34 AM

anyway, I should go to sleep

Grey

12:50 AM

@Leathe Excuse me.

FIGHT ME IRL

Alex M.

"Jay-Z's lawyers tried to get us to stop using DayZ and change it to ZDay, actually." DayZ creator Dean Hall shares interesting new info about the game on Reddit. pcgamer.com/2014/01/22/…

Grey

I love this gif

hasherr

@Grey For the record, I would fight you IRL if you wanted.

But then I'd buy you a cookie after the fight and we'd code into the sunset

Grey

not a cowboy

Cowboy coding

Cowboy coding is software development where programmers have autonomy over the development process. This includes control of the project's schedule, languages, algorithms, tools, frameworks and coding style. A cowboy coder can be a lone developer or part of a group of developers working with minimal process or discipline. Usually it occurs when there is little participation by business users, or fanned by management that controls only non-development aspects of the project, such as the broad targets, timelines, scope, and visuals (the "what", but not the "how"). Cowboy coding typically h...

I guess im a cow boy :(

Icy Defiance

you're in a context where the term is implied. Perhaps entrepreneur or freelancer would be better.

Grey

1:03 AM

i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/198/459/…

@IcyDefiance Nothing wrong with being an entrepreneur or a 'lancer. I'd prefer something more stable in regards to being a freelancer.

Icy Defiance

oh yeah, but you're not programming as a job right now are you?

but then freelancer might be inaccurate too...

Grey

im just

MY NAME IS GREY AND IM HERE TO WIN HACKATHONS, IMPRESS PEOPLE, and OTHER THINGS.

Icy Defiance

well yeah, but you have to make it sound more impressive

Grey

and try to make money

because monie is mprtant

Oh wait I also want to share this

yay or nay

yes this is mine. et es gumbo

hasherr

Where is gumbo from?

Grey

1:18 AM

new orleans originally

hasherr

Oh, is it cajan?

Grey

creole

lol

@hash play this spotify playlist IF YOU DARE

"How to Slow Time"

okay im gone ttyl take care

Dean Knight

1:34 AM

I found the anti-physics everyone was talking about earlier: i.imgur.com/NlcESit.gif

:D

user4704

@TrevorPowell Eh?

hasherr

@JoshPetrie Drama :(

user4704

Hm, well, I couldn't get a good sense of the context.

hasherr

It was just Alex and Icy bickering.

Nothing big.

Christian Careaga

2:11 AM

@Pip try hardcoding the blit positions for the bar rects, since you are not blitting them to the screen but the the black rect:

self.image.blit(self.image3, (0,0))
self.image.blit(self.image2, (0,0))
self.image.blit(self.image1, (0,0))

and see if that affects them

hasherr

The setup for a LibGDX project in IntelliJ is very complex

Almo

careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/47393/…

hasherr

2:26 AM

@Almo ?

Almo

what

ToddersLegrande

If only I knew anything about iOS development and lived in Canada

Almo

;)

hasherr

Is this your company?

Almo

it's the one I work for

hasherr

3:08 AM

@Almo Would you hire an American Minor with no previous work experience?

Also, I'd have to live with you.

Almo

sorry; has to be someone who can A work in canada B can do a project themselves

Christian Careaga

@hasherr good try

hasherr

@ChristianCareaga A for effort.

Christian Careaga

haha of course! whatcha workin on right now

hasherr

Playing FTL, reading about LibGDX on the side

Christian Careaga

3:16 AM

what is LibGDX

hasherr

Multiplatform game library

Very flexible

Based on LWJGL and OpenGL

Christian Careaga

ahh interessant

ToddersLegrande

@hasherr so you are making a multiplatform game with no intentions of supporting linux? (you said you weren't going to support SteamOS yesterday)

hasherr

To me there's a big difference between Linux and SteamOS

ToddersLegrande

Well to the rest of the world, there isn't.

hasherr

3:20 AM

Listen, when you say 'What OS do you support?' it all depends on your personal preferences.

ToddersLegrande

Ah going that route... ok then

hasherr

I don't believe that there is a superior OS, therefore, YES, I do technically support all of them.

But I don't view SteamOS as an OS, I view it as a console experience.

And because I don't play games on console, I can't say that I support it.

ToddersLegrande

Whatever you say

hasherr

It's just my opinion, don't act so hurt :P

ToddersLegrande

I'm not hurt. I think your opinion is just silly

hasherr

3:23 AM

Why?

ToddersLegrande

I just don't agree with your way of thinking

SteamOS is Linux from a technical perspective

What you believe doesn't change that fact

But you can choose not to support it for whatever reason, you are correct

hasherr

No, of course it doesn't. It's just my opinion which happens to be in the minority.

ToddersLegrande

But there is a good chance it will work on SteamOS and choosing not to support it just comes across silly

to me

But thats ok. I won't try to change your opinion. I just didn't want to argue

hasherr

What's your opinion on it, overall? I'm curious as to what you think.

ToddersLegrande

SteamOS and the Controller I approve of. Obviously I would need to give the controller a try to decide if its really any good or not but at least Valve is trying.

SteamOS I like because I do like to game on my couch from time to time and PC operating systems just aren't really suited for it

hasherr

3:30 AM

I like the fact that it works hand in hand with Steam to deliver more of a console feel.

MickLH

@hasherr | perl -pe 's/personal preferences/target audience'

ToddersLegrande

So if I can have a PC in my living room and another in my office means I don't have to buy a second copy of a game

Because its all through steam

hasherr

Right. I like the idea of a connected platform.

Almo

@hasherr SteamOS is an OS.

/end of topic

MickLH

I love my steambox

hasherr

3:31 AM

By definition, yes.

ToddersLegrande

SteamBoxes are just computers. People who think they are consoles are lying to themselves and are going to develop incorrect opinions

MickLH

Had it for years, never got the controller don't plan to ;)

hasherr

I don't view the experience as 'STEAM OS: PLAY PC ON YOUR COUCH!' I view it as 'Steam on your couch.' Those might seem like subtle differences, but there's a line there for me.

ToddersLegrande

Xbox360 runs a modified version of Vista :P

MickLH

I heard they upgraded to 7

With that big dashboard patch with the new avatars and such, idk

hasherr

3:34 AM

If I really wanted to develop a solid opinion on SOS then I'd have to try it out, the controller, and possibly some of it's integration with other things.

Almo

I am curious about that controller, but I'm a gameplay programmer :)

ToddersLegrande

@MickLH Could very well be

MickLH

feeling like a genius, I got 2 bags of chips at the store, now I just hit the end of the bag AND I HAVE ANOTHER :D

ToddersLegrande

It's like when I order a whole pizza by myself knowing there is no way I'd finish it all... 4 hours later I HAVE PIZZA AGAIN :O

All nighters make me hungry

And fat..

lol

MickLH

lol too much pizza to eat? problem solved.

hasherr

3:37 AM

It's like when you find money in old coat pockets

'Im Rich!'

MickLH

no hasherr

Christian Careaga

@hasherr thats the best!

MickLH

only steam people get it

hasherr

xD

Don't pull me out of the circlejerk.

MickLH

lol I don't even go on reddit, not sure what you mean

ToddersLegrande

3:38 AM

Yeahhhhhh.... not at all whats going on here

Go home @hasherr. You're drunk.

hasherr

Nope. Not of legal drinking age. You got nothing on me, son.

MickLH

hasherr slow down before you get a DUI

ToddersLegrande

Because THAT stopped all my idiot friends who got busted at the senior party from drinking... uh huh :P

Trevor Powell

@JoshPetrie (It was me making a point by starring a message, flagrantly violating the "no stupid stars" policy. Didn't work, anyhow.)

hasherr

@ToddersLegrande I'm not one of your idiot friends.

ToddersLegrande

3:40 AM

@TrevorPowell I think I cancelled your star... lol

Almo

because you're not a friend, or because you're not an idiot? :O

ToddersLegrande

I unfortunately have little power beyond that so I didn't intervene

MickLH

@hasherr regardless, that does not mean it's ok to drive drunk!

ToddersLegrande

Like Josh.... I was really confused by the context of it all

hasherr

@Almo I'm definitely not an idiot.

Not sure if you guys qualify as friends

Almo

3:41 AM

ok :)

Trevor Powell

@ToddersLegrande And for this slight I shall never forgive you. I invoke Blood Feud! ;)

hasherr

I like you guys though! You guys are cool.

ToddersLegrande

OH SNAP

Christian Careaga

How does this look?

postimg.org/image/ch7l7u68x

Almo

looks like a good start to me :)

Dean Knight

3:43 AM

triple A man. :D

hasherr

Looking good

Almo

ok sleep time

night guys :)

MickLH

lol so uh... turning off desktop notifications ;)

nighty night almo-ee

Almo

:)

hasherr

@ChristianCareaga '10/10. GOTY. A true masterpiece.' - IGN

Dean Knight

3:43 AM

@ChristianCareaga You testing out Collision detection stuff?

Christian Careaga

Yeah just seeing if i could get the scrolling to work, dunno if i will make a game of it yet though, more of practice

Dean Knight

Nice.

hasherr

I've never done background scrolling like that

Is it hard?

Trevor Powell

Mm, parallax. Takes me back. :)

Christian Careaga

@DeanKnight My collision works fine just implemented the parallax scroling

Trevor Powell

3:45 AM

I don't think I've ever done real parallax, other than with starfields. When I was doing 2D stuff, I was mostly working on the Mac, back when it wasn't fast enough to do true scrolling at desktop resolutions.

Christian Careaga

@hasherr not to hard, once i got the camera working I just made a list of the layers, the higher the index of the list the slower that layer moves, because its further away basically!

Trevor Powell

Those staggeringly ultra-high-resolution 640x480 desktop resolutions that we had in those days. HIGH RESOLUTION!

Christian Careaga

@TrevorPowell yeah that's the first time I've tried think it gives the game a really cool effect

Trevor Powell

@ChristianCareaga It definitely does.

Christian Careaga

I'm thinking I might make a game out of it but not sure, I need an interesting game mechanic though!

Trevor Powell

3:47 AM

►

Twelve layers of parallax! Because you can never have enough parallax!

(the game was pretty terrible, of course. But the graphics were astounding at the time.)

Christian Careaga

So much parallax! pretty good for 1989 though! haha

hasherr

That would lag the shit out of everything in 1989

Trevor Powell

It was unbelievable in 1989. Nobody had seen more than about two layers of parallax before. It used all sorts of fancy Amiga hardware tricks in order to manage to do it.

Christian Careaga

yeah that's crazy! probably so slow aha

Matt D

amiga had hardware parallax

so no, it was fine

Christian Careaga

3:58 AM

alright im going to make 100 parallax layers

Matt D

why

Christian Careaga

Haha I'm kidding

2 is good for me

Icy Defiance

you could make it look like true 3D with 100

Christian Careaga

hahaha yeah, not sure if pygame could handle that!

Matt D

or you could render a perspective scene

MickLH

4:05 AM

@IcyDefiance Is that possibly a new approach to point cloud rendering? Draw a parallax layer for every slice of the voxels :P

Icy Defiance

could it be...anti-performance?

eh that was a stretch

user4704

@TrevorPowell Oh.

user4704

I am making vim-counterpoint support arbitrary search directories now.

user4704

List de-deduplication is a bit ugly in vimscript ;(

Matt D

do you use that at work?

are you starting a cult over there ;)

user4704

4:10 AM

I use vim everywhere.

Trevor Powell

@JoshPetrie that sounds interesting. I wonder whether I could find some other interesting uses for that across multiple directories. Like, I have FooDomain.cpp/h and FooMapper.cpp/h (in separate directories). Wonder whether it would be useful to have counterpoint be able to switch between all four of those, based on the 'Foo' prefix.

user4704

Yeah, i bet i could add a way to customize the glob operation

Trevor Powell

4:29 AM

In my current home project, I have mmoItem, mmoItemPrototype, mmoItemButton, mmoItemButtonSlot, and a couple others. Trying to decide that would be at all useful to have as swap targets.

You know what I actually do want? I want a way to load a couple of files into different "slots", and then quick commands to swap between those slots. Like Ctrl-6, but with more than just two slots. I bet there's already a plugin somewhere which would do that.

And now I realise that that's just file marks -- the standard vim feature. 'mA' to mark where I am as 'A', and '`A' to go back there no matter what I'm looking at at the moment. If that didn't store the current position in the file, that'd be exactly what I was looking for..

user4704

@TrevorPowell Do you use Ctrl-P?

Aidan Mueller

4:44 AM

@IcyDefiance I don't think a lot of developers realize how much power they have. If they don't like a company's policies, they shouldn't have to develop for them. Instead of saying "herp derp, I don't like how they treat developers, but I guess I will just live with it", they can just stop developing for them. A platform is nothing without apps.

Icy Defiance

@AidanMueller well honestly developers do whatever their boss says to do, and the boss can only see how many people use iPhones

user4704

I think I could do the custom switching by just having a way to set, basically the regex I use to find the "root" of the file name.

Aidan Mueller

@IcyDefiance But if you're indie?

Icy Defiance

indie, by common definition, is small and has little influence

though if all of them did the same thing at the same time, it would hurt

and indie has to chase the market even more than companies like EA, because no one's going to come to them

Trevor Powell

@JoshPetrie I use Command-T. But basically the same deal, yes.