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1:04 AM
:( I just converted some of my stuff over to use [Conditional("DEBUG")] instead of #if DEBUG, and the compiler still appears to want to compile the [Conditional("DEBUG")] stuff
 
What language is that? The [Conditional("DEBUG")] statement.
 
C#
I'm reading the doc a little more carefully right now: msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa288458%28v=vs.71%29.aspx
 
Ah, interesting. It almost looks objective c-ish.
 
Hmm... so I am currently trying to have a mix of [Conditional("DEBUG")] where part of that method wants to use an other method that is inside a class that defined like so:
#if DEBUG
// Make this public only in debug mode
public class QuadTreeNode<T> where T : IQuadStorable
#else
class QuadTreeNode<T> where T : IQuadStorable
#endif
{
And if I'm compiling in the Release configuration, it fails to compile because the code inside the [Conditional("DEBUG")] tries and fails to compile because it tries to access the QuadTreeNode
So... that sucks, it's either all or nothing
Maybe I shouldn't be defining the class that way though, :/
 
1:28 AM
Hm. I wouldn't have thought that things inside that sort of conditional would be compiled. But I've not used C# that way before. I'm more of an #if sort of guy. :)
 
yeah... I would not have thought it would be compiled either, but apparently I'm wrong
Ok... I've figured it out. It compiles the method itself, but it does not compile any calls to the method
I don't know why it needs to compile the method if it's impossible to call, but... it does
 
Oh wait. I see what's going on.
[Conditional("DEBUG")] is checking #ifdef DEBUG, not #if DEBUG. So if you've #defined DEBUG as 0, it's still defined, and so it's still being compiled.
If you go for the Microsoft-style "either #define DEBUG or #define NDEBUG", then it instead of #defining DEBUG to either 0 or 1, then that ought to work for you.
(According to the docs I'm reading on MSDN)
 
nah, because the call to this method, when I'm in Release mode is greyed out and when I hold my mouse over it, it says: "Method Invocation skipped. Compiler will not generate method invocation because the method is conditional, or it is partial method without implementation"
 
Hm.. interesting.
 
:/ yeah
 
1:34 AM
C# is complicated. :)
 
heh, only parts of it
 
I'm still wrapping my head around [self doFoo: fooValue withBar: bar withBaz: baz];
 
heh, yeah, those things are called Attributes, and it's meta-data about what's to follow
Mostly
It can also be a DLLImport
It's not all that common, although I have started to use them more and more
You can survive quite well without them
 
I was just basing my comment on "Conditional code is included in client code depending on whether the preprocessing identifier is defined when the client code gets compiled. ", at msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa288458%28v=vs.71%29.aspx
No personal experience at all. :)
 
heh, yeah
 
2:12 AM
Well... it's all fixed up now. My QuadTreeNode no longer has that weird compile condition and I've actually taken some time to go through and make it safe for public access, and in the process, uploaded a new version to SourceForge (yay!). Also, my conditional compile code may end up being available in the release version, so it was helpful to get it right.
:O over 800 downloads of the QuadTree. Awesome
 
2:38 AM
mmmm, fun with conditional release/debug compiling
 
:/ yeah
meh, it's all fixed now
 
Cool.
I should really keep track of how many people fetch/browse my code. Never have. Might be interesting to know.
 
yeah, SF does that for me. It's... alright
Sometimes a little surprising, and that can be good
Like 30k downloads of a G15 plugin for winamp I made, :D
anyway, so what are you working on @TrevorPowell?
 
2:55 AM
I'm working on an MMO game which isn't an MMO. Nice and confusing. ;)
 
heh, ok
 
It's a tycoon-style game where the player runs an MMORPG.
Yay, high-concept!
 
Alright, so far it's reminding me of Game Dev Story
Where it's a game about making games
 
Similar in concept. You never see the office or workers in mine, though; it's done with a view into the MMORPG world.
 
Ah, interesting
So... kinda.. sorta like sim city, except instead of building a city, you're building an MMO and trying to keep the players happy?
 
2:59 AM
Precisely.
 
I'm currently in the middle of a big AI refactoring. It was a shocking mess before; thrown together haphazardly in order to meet a self-imposed deadline.
 
I've never been there
j/k
 
I've spent a frightening amount of my professional career there. ;)
 
Refactoring?
 
3:23 AM
Refactoring things which were thrown together haphazardly in order to meet self-imposed deadlines.
(Stating that a little too strongly. But it feels that way sometimes. :) )
 
@TrevorPowell That sounds awesome! But I also love Tycoon games, so I'm probably biased
 
4:10 AM
I'm really hoping to finish it eventually. So difficult to get time to work on it, around work and the rest of life. :/
 
I know what you mean man. I think we all do
I am getting so close to being able to call AO a "game" and not just an "engine"
 
finding time is always hard, unless you're crazy enough to quit your job, or stop having a life
I still view Isotower are more of an "engine", but the core elements of the engine are pretty much done, so I can start working on the rest of the game stuff
 
yeah, as soon as someone can actually sorta play the game, have fun, and there's a sort-of goal, then I'll be happy
For AO, I need an infinite mission that's reasonably balanced and will eventually force the end of the game, recognize that you've died, and take you back the main menu.
Just because there's only 1 weapon and 1 bad guy doesn't matter, right?
 
ah, "balanced". there's a scary word for a single developer :(
 
ehhhh, yeahhhh
 
4:20 AM
my first release won't have any proper saving, but i'm going to give people a big chunk of money to build stuff with
 
I know my game is unbalanced, but it's like working with a 7-sided balance, when you lift weight from one side, all of the others shift
@thedaian You know what? That works just fine.
 
balancing is something i plan on doing a bit more of later on, and of course all the numbers for balance are in xml files so people can feasibly make things cost $0
 
yeah, I need to get all of my data into an xml file, or xml files
like my animation data
 
(i should actually probably do something to prevent zero and negative values from being loaded....)
 
You have a bug and task tracking system?
 
4:25 AM
yep
 
but then again.. if it takes a minute, just do it, :/
 
just added it into my "bug" list
 
and done!
yay! i got some development of my game in today!
 
Done adding it to your bug list? or done fixing it?
 
4:27 AM
i did both!
 
also i have this item in my "alpha release" list: Money/income balancing (need to have enough money to build a decent sized tower from the start, and income per room needs to be high enough to be able to build even more stuff)
it's the only thing in there for balancing though
 
yeah, for me, I need to make miners pay off after some period of time, and my solar stations need to cost enough that they aren't free, but also aren't too expensive. Then there's upgrades. Should it be better to build a new X, or upgrade the existing one?
Building a new one has the advantage AND disadvantage of opening up new terrain
Guess I'll be "hitting the books" when it comes time
 
hehe, nice
well, since i was up way too late last night, i'm going to bed. later!
 
Start playing AO, SCII, AoE, Empire Earth, WC2, and any other strategy game I can get my hands on
alright, gn!
 
4:51 AM
Alright... well I'm making range-rings in the hud, but now I'm wondering how the hud should figure out how many, and which types of range rings to make for a given entity. I'd rather have the hud in the dark, and have the information provided by my entities. So.. I guess I've just answered my own question.
 
And answered it well!
 
Of course! And it helps that the problem was well defined
 
(I do the same thing in my game, for the information that is displayed in the info panel when you select an entity in my game -- the entity provides definition for the types of data to be displayed when it is selected.)
 
5:16 AM
WoooT! Got it done!
That's awesome
Now I just need to properly mip-map my ring images, and everything will be sweet. Then I can add a new "floating text" object that will follow the circles around. Yay!
The grid is my QuadTree that wants to display whenever I'm in Debug mode, despite me having [Conditional("DEBUG"), Conditional("SHOW_QUAD_TREE")] in front of the method
And the white ring needs some serious mip-mapping. An other day.
Pretty sweet
 
6:05 AM
Awesome.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:41 AM
Even if I don't plan on having people mod my game, a scripting engine might still be advantageous right? I mean, rather than having a bunch of hardcoded objects, scripting quests and other things would be better handled by a scripting engine no.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:49 AM
Depends, really. Scripting gives some power. But makes debugging a whole lot more difficult.
I think that if I wasn't planning to have people mod my game, or have non-programmers be providing design content for it, then I'd be pretty hesitant to embed a scripting language into my game.
Simple custom command-based scripts are fine, of course, and aren't too bad to debug. It's when you're embedding Lua or Python or something else with its own flow control where things start getting really complicated.
 
10:49 AM
It just seems a ton easier to not have to create a new class for every realm I have and might have.
Like I need a realm with a bunch of different events that happens as the player progresses. I may need many of those.
I'll end up with an army of classes that only differ in their internal function.
 
Oh, that definitely ought to be data, no question.
 
But it isn't just data.
It's also scripting.
Like if a player enters a certain region, it might trigger the spawning of some monsters, which after killed will open a door or something, while rewarding the player with a bit of "encounter" experience and other rewards.
It just seems loads easier to have a simple scripting system in this case.
 
Maybe. You know your plans a lot better than I do. :)
 
Well, it's just a game with RPG elements, like missions and progression.
The missions is what I'm concerned about.
 
11:04 AM
If I was doing it, I'd have a couple basic types of missions, and have data stating which of those types of use, and what variable values should be, etc. If you're going to have lots of missions, then you really do need to be specifying them in data, I agree. I just know how tricky it can be to debug logic in an embedded language, so I usually try to avoid using them when I can.
But using an embedded language is completely defensible and logical, too. :)
 
Well, I guess I'll see when I start implementing missions. Maybe they can be defined by simple guidelines like you suggest, and simply have some data for the differences between them.
 
 
5 hours later…
3:46 PM
@MindWorX, I'm not using a scripting language yet, but I have a plan. You know that C# can load a C# code file (.cs) and execute it on the fly, right? All of my missions are going to have a lot of complexity to them, so they will need a script for each mission. Right now, the missions (aka scenarios) are all internal and get compiled, but I know that sometime down the road, I could move them external and load them dynamically as a C# Script.
 
Yeah, that's the thing I was thinking, using C# as the scripting language.
How about database, got any good suggestions? I was thinking SQLite, but I don't know what I'd look for as a measure of performance.
 
I use SQLite for an other application, and it works well for small stuff, but as soon as you want triggers or foreign keys, you just can't use those.
 
@MindWorX How often do you expect to hit the database?
 
I still love it though, especially for a client-side database that you don't need a 30-minute installer with 2 reboots for
@MindWorX And if you're using C# Scripting, there's no reason you can't treat the files as internal for now, then pull them out if/when you want to
On an unrelated note: Thank Google for Google Cache! You can still browse Wikipedia!
 
@JohnMcDonald you can browse wikipedia if you disable javascript or use the mobile version.
 
3:56 PM
Ah, ok
 
@MindWorX deciding on a SQL engine is like getting married. If you make the wrong choice it's difficult to change. If you think that someday you might need something that scales (e.g. file groups, DPVs, partitioned tables, etc.) go for something that is compatible. (Hint: SqlExpress is free). You can go the ANSI SQL route; and ignore vendors that don't support ANSI SQL - but then you will forego things like stored procedures or custom functions (which can be a big perf boost).
On top of that (as far as I know) there is no SQL engine out there today that you can configure to outright reject anything that isn't ANSI SQL - meaning you can't reliably determine if your SQL will still work with another engine.
Not to mention you would loose out on other vendor features. Taking MsSQL for example (which I know well) you wouldn't be able to use CTEs, Statistics, Deeper Locking Hints, Storage Optimizations (e.g. Fill Factor) if you targetted ANSI SQL. Something like SQL-Lite might even be missing a query planner; which you need to start learning if you intend to scale someday. /rant
 
Lots of pongs from this chat while watching the SWTOR intro trailer. :P
Well, it's for storing user data, like where they are, their passwords and such.
So stuff like, when they exit, it'll store their position and realm for next time they login.
And when they login it'll perform a password lookup.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:38 PM
Man... what do you say when a good friend asks "would you be interested in working on a startup with me and some guys?"
 
no
 
how about: "I'm sorry, that sounds like a lot of fun, but I'm not in a position to leave my job"
 
that's a more diplomatic way to put it I guess
 
if you do have a job, than ^ that works.
if you don't have a job and you're looking for something, then... well, it's all too easy to jump in head first and break your neck :(
 
7:02 PM
yeah... so if this guys does end up going through with it, three of my friends will have gone into the indie game developer scene. Crazy
At least this guy really knows his stuff, unlike the last two. The first two are still at it though, and it's been over 3 years, so they must be makin' enough money for no-name mac n' cheese
 
or ramen. lots and lots and lots of ramen
 
yeah, maybe ramen one day and no-name mac n' cheese the other
 
hehe
i'm actually pretty close to diving into full time indie dev...
it's all dependent on how isotower does
 
yeah, these guys dove in right after uni, and I don't think they really had a plan or a solid game idea or demo
Head first
There used to be 3, one left for a real job, then the second guy left for a real job but has since returned
And now, at least that one guy really knows his stuff, but it wasn't always that way
Hell, I even go to that guy for advice these days
 
user4704
What do you guys think about this question? gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/22571/…
 
7:21 PM
:/ yeah, I feel like he just needs to start making a game on his own, or get some formal training. You don't become an expert climber just by learning about ropes and knots
 
@JohnMcDonald it sounds like he doesn't know anything though, and his goal isn't to "create a game" it's " I'm still completely determined to get into the games industry." and he's asking about stuff like interviews
 
:/ yeah
 
coupled with "I didn't realize I had to understand recursion" is kind of a warning sign.
I'm trying to figure out what he thought games programming was
 
essential skills: "make games"
 
7:30 PM
It's kind of like those commercials for "game design" degrees that just show two guys sitting in front of a console waving controllers around
ah, here we go
 
lol, that's awesome
I'd +1 an answer with that in it
 
lol
the classic. "we need to tighten up the graphics on level 3"!
 
8:04 PM
just for a change, look what I've received today :9gag.com/gag/1936392
 
those are some lovely power lines
 
9:04 PM
It's not engineering oversight, it's postmodern art!
It is a metaphor for the way existing power structures impede progress.
 
9:22 PM
this road is now an art museum
 
just imagine a racing game in that road!
not only that road but any one I can remember in tehran.
 
I don't need to imagine it. Was working on a racing game with roads like that just a few months ago.
 
it's need for speed in real life.
 
We eventually made the power poles indestructible, just because we couldn't make their physics work properly, when hit. :/
 
it's like every one is playing just trying to get to somewhere
but no one is moving forward between the lines
 
9:28 PM
in a lot of countries, the lines are just there for decoration
 
for old people in the US, that is true
 
In Utah, they just don't bother making lines
 
 
(Disclaimer: They do...but at the first sign of rain or snow, they seem to completely wash away)
 
the black lines are showing street lines,
color ones show how people drive
 
9:30 PM
hahaha
 
cyan seems to be going off-road
red is trying to maximize exit velocity
 
he is using sideway
that's also common!
 
the other 3 entered the curve too fast and are understeering
 
yellow is also going off road
 
I can't explain yellow at all
probably alcohol is involved
 
9:31 PM
and green started off-road
 
With everyone weaving around so much, I'd be pulling over to the side, too.
 
me neither, but that's how it actually looks like
 
Green is just trying to get back 0n-road, but cyan and red are cutting him off
 
"this road is dangerous, i'm leaving"
 
and do you remember how cars drive before they start a competition
move slowly and in the same time steer left and right
that's just a copy of what you can see everyday in tehran, exactly like the cars trying to move faster in traffic!
 
9:34 PM
Yellow is a chicken. He is crossing the road.
 
rimshot
 
We still don't know why
 
and let's not even talk about motorcycles.
at least all the cars move in the same direction
that's not even a valid statement in their case.
it's not important if it's a one-way street, or if they are before red light. they just move as they think they can!
 
Over here, cars stay in their lanes, but motorcycles weave. it's the bicyclists and pedestrians that ignore lights. I've nearly commited involuntary manslaughter twice this week.
 
this figure show a cross road, and lights are as their colors
 
9:41 PM
path of a rogue electron, or path of a motorcycle?
you decide!
 
the purple line show how a motor bike can move!
without attending the lights
 
that's the path of two motorcycles colliding and turning into photons
 
@Jimmy I'm a cyclist, and I do obey stop lights, but I almost completely ignore stop signs when I see it's safe to do so
 
I'm talking about lights. I'm also talking about going through an intersection with cross traffic while your light is red.
 
This one guy got mad at me because we were both going straight through this stop sign and I didn't stop. He was actually turning left and didn't put on his turn signal.
@Jimmy yeah... I don't do that
 
9:51 PM
....people who don't use turn signals suck
 
i pretty much always use my turn signals when there's people around, and usually use them when there isn't anyone around
 
me too
 
I always forget to signal when I'm biking
 
motorbiking? or cycling?
 
9:56 PM
cycling
 
10:23 PM
@Jimmy I try to signal whenever there's a car around, that way I don't get killed, and the car(s) don't wait for me if I'm not getting in their way
 
10:47 PM
so
What was the final decision on the "Where can I" thing?
 
I think it was: Toast them with a link to gpwiki.org (currently blacked out in SOPA protest)
 
user4704
Yup.
 
user4704
Close them.
 
user4704
I went through a bunch and voted on them, as well as linking in the comments.
 
user4704
But all of them are still open as of now, including the original one about the Panda3D asset library
 
user4704
10:53 PM
...and I apparently cannot do math. :\
 
11:12 PM
@JoshPetrie math?
 
user4704
11:28 PM
Yeah, for my answer on the D3D constant buffer question I added way wrong :D
 

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