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12:51 AM
CAUSE I AINT NO HOLLA BACK GURRL
But seriously, I'm not.
 
good, you shouldn't be
 
well @thedaian, what are you working on tonight?
 
eh, i dunno.
i should finish converting a silly program to be data driven so i can mess around and translate it to english
 
1:14 AM
yes
yes you should
I was going to say something about it, but didn't know how you felt. I'm glad you brought it up.
 
1:25 AM
Hi all!
Are there any iOS wiz here?
 
 
4 hours later…
5:06 AM
@Coyote I've got a iOS wiz friend, you can ask anyway.
 
5:57 AM
I just had an interesting optimization idea.
Right now, each tiles consists of the following:
byte background
byte basetile
byte overlay
byte damage
However, the amount of tiles that has an overlay is really small. I mean... REALLY small. Which means I'm wasting millions and millions of bytes on "OverlayType.None".
If I remove the overlay byte, and instead turn overlays into a prop type, each overlay would take more memory, but I'd save a ton of memory on not having so many empty overlays.
3 bytes fits 357,913,941 tiles in 1024mb of memory.
4 bytes fits 268,435,456 tiles in 1024mb of memory.
That's almost 90 mil more tiles. And ~250mb of memory saved if I set the tile limit to 250 mil.
 
6:46 AM
you can also consider saving data not needed right away, for example tile data from far a way places, and then unload it from memory
 
7:13 AM
Yeah, I'm definitely going to do that. It looks like I'm moving more and more towards a Minecraft inspired implementation, with generating chunks as necessary and then saving those chunks to a file.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:28 AM
While kind of cool, this don't look right.
This don't look right at all.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:21 AM
@JohnMcDonald, How well would a quad-tree work in a game that doesn't have a fixed world size?
 
11:54 AM
@MindWorX You can expand a tree by adding a new root and putting the old one under it. So it should work as good or as bad as in any other case where you'd use it.
 
I'm just wondering if, performance wise, it's worth using a quad-tree over spatial hashing.
 
 
4 hours later…
3:30 PM
So if I have an Asteroids-like ship, in space, that can accelerate, which slows down by adding friction in the form of: "velocity += acceleration - friction*velocity", how do I calculate how far it will go if it stops accelerating and just slows down?
 
4:16 PM
d = v0 t + 1/2 a t2
hmm, didn't format correctly
d = (v0 * t) + ( 1/2 * a * t^2)
 
But when the thrusters are off "a" is 0, so it's actually only the "- friction * velocity" that affects the velocity
 
which is still acceleration, just negative
 
True, but it is constantly changing. How do I account for that?
 
hmm, not sure. I've not done friction coef against velocity.
 
Is there a smarter way to go about this "friction" then?
 
4:36 PM
@ErikPerik Integrate speed over time. Specifically ...
 
@MindWorX I'm not too familiar with spatial hashing, so I've looked up an implementation here: conkerjo.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/… The main difference between that and an expandable quad tree (mentioned by Martin) is that quad trees allow arbitrary area-based lookups.
2
So, I can say: "Give me all entities within 100 units of my location", or... "Give me all entities within 500 units of my location". The size doesn't matter.
Quad Trees are almost like binary trees, but in two dimensions
 
@JohnMcDonald Thanks for posting that link.
 
First google hit for "2d spatial hashing" :)
 
@Ma
@MartinSojka How would that solve my problem exactly? I'm a bit rusty with integration
 
4:53 PM
@ErikPerik You know you can edit and/or delete past posts for a few seconds afterward, right? **edit: See?
 
@ErikPerik :If your (partially differential, BTW, but most simplifications of Navier-Stokes are like that) function for velocity has an exact solution, you can just use that. If not, you can use numerical integration methods.
Suggestion: Assume the ship simply stops (whatever the hell that means in space ...) after its velocity is small enough to get rid of the infinity.
 
@JohnMcDonald I couldn't (still can't) remove the "@Ma" post though, odd.
 
Anyway, gotta go.
 
@MartinSojka But is that still possible with my way of dealing with friction?
 
@ErikPerik Yes. That doesn't mean it's easy however. I'd go with a numeric method myself, to save some of my sanity. ;)
 
5:03 PM
I'll do some research then
 
5:27 PM
hello
 
Hey Pablo
 
@JohnMcDonald John =) what's up?
 
Not a whole lot, gettin' a little bit of work done
in between thinking about android development
 
ohh
why?
 
Why android development, or why working?
 
5:30 PM
do you like mobile apps?
why android
 
Ah, I just got an android like 2 weeks ago
 
the answer about working is easy...
that's for fun (?)
ahh nice =)
I don't have a cellphone since
 
:) yeah, it's pretty awesome
You don't own a cell phone?
 
since nokia 3220 I think
some years ago, many now that I notice
no
I don't!!
 
Damn, I don't have a landline, they don't make sense in my current living situation
Even my parents don't have a landline anymore
 
5:33 PM
I do have and use it both for phone and ADSL, and I actually do have two cellphones but without line and they are really old
 
nothing really interesting to code for
 
Yeah, no doubt
 
I guess it depends on the kind of apps you're planning to do
 
yeah, the first app I plan to make could be on absolutely any platform. The second app requires multi-touch, and I'm not really at liberty to speak about it, it's that awesome (and the idea isn't mine to share)
 
5:36 PM
ahahah
isn't there a multitouch device for the computer?
as an usb screen XD
 
ah, probably. And I've also used a multi-mouse/keyboard API once, it was pretty cool
 
there's some multi-touch stuff for PC, but it's kind of expensive and not everyone has it, so it's almost not worth developing for
 
yeah, it's for stuff like restaurants
 
ahh yea now I remember seeing those
maybe any of you can give me some tips? in CodeReview ?
 
heh, I like how you provided a link to minecraft
 
user4704
5:46 PM
tips on what specifically?
 
on design I guess, patterns, I wonder if it's easy to read and work with, etc, while keeping it small and independant from other code
 
user4704
Not enough context.
 
user4704
Why INT32 and dword/word/byte? It's inconsistent. Using underscores to lead nonlocal identifiers is often a bad idea as it can potentially run afoul of reserved words. That's about all I can say objectively.
 
user4704
There's some wonky style stuff in there too, imo.
 
I removed the INT32 define
sorry about that
@JoshPetrie underscores as in the structure names?
 
user4704
5:53 PM
yea
 
erm, why are you doing stuff like #define gvCreateChunkData gvCreateChunkData10
 
because I'm not sure how I'm gonna deal with versions so this way I have both to choose... the macro would help changing the function to another one which may support a newer data format
some things are related to how the data is stored in the files and the like, so I can't just change the code and etc, I have to keep some code for opening older files and such
I'm not sure why I use those _ for the structure declarations, I will remove them now
 
6:10 PM
@thedaian So, the PDF issue we spoke of a couple of days ago... looks like we might be going with the token approach
PM just came and spoke to me about it
 
6:38 PM
ah, cool
 
 
1 hour later…
7:45 PM
@JohnMcDonald Interesting. How slow is an expansion operation?
Also, I have a 15" touch screen. Regular old touch tech. Not really that nice to use.
I'd love a multitouch screen, that would be sexy.
NUI group has some very interesting methods.
LLP is my favorite.
 
7:57 PM
Well, an expansion requires the creation of 4 objects: a new root and 3 new children. It expands at an exponential rate, quadrupling in area each time
Unused areas use minimal processing power, no matter how big
I'm imagining that your worlds will only really want to be increasing in the X axis, but maybe I'm wrong
 
8:56 PM
The most time consuming operation in a quad tree is moving objects
I think
 
 
1 hour later…
10:20 PM
Hi all.
 
morning
 
What you all up to?
 
work, mostly
 
yep, work
 
likewise
 
10:24 PM
sigh It's going to be forever before my World Of Minecraft Tactics: Got to catch 'em All game is ready to make me a millionaire
 
Hah!
 
I often wonder, what percentage of these successful indie devs maintained a fulltime job?
 
till then, I have to hope my day job makes me a millionaire.
 
yeah, my sample base is biased, because they are kinda makin' it
 
Also, I came here asking for advice: after making an amateur MMO, how can I make it more popular? I just want to know that, but I'm not sure if it's even good enough to play...
 
10:27 PM
how many active players do you have?
if you have more than like 20 active players, just ask them to advertise for you. have them get their friends or forum-buddies to try it out.
 
@justnS until they became successful, all of them
 
also, your players are often the best critics about things you need to work on.
 
Well, none yet, I didn't release yet.
I know that. But I really doubt I'll have any players at all...
 
well then
 
Whoops, double "yet", shouldn't have done that.
Yes?
 
10:30 PM
your first players can be friends or just people you know
 
@Bane step 1: get the game to a "playable" state. (also get a few testers) step 2: polish it as much as you possibly can (usually this means improving the graphics and cleaning up major bugs). step 3: if your game is good, your players will help spread the word. step 4: write press releases about how awesome your game is, send to every game review/news site out there possible
 
the first round of critiques will be the toughest, so you might as well get through the rough parts before scaring away people
 
also, I suggest trying to have people test in person. Over the internet works, but if you can physically watch people interact with your software, it will make the feedback carry more weight
 
it sounds like you're in a pre-pre-pre-alpha stage. you shouldn't be worrying about player retention until you have basic things satisfied
things like "my server is up 24/7 reliably"
 
Thank you guys! I already have many people heated up for it (I once got 9k+ hits on my blog in a day, but just because someone Stumbled Upon it), but main testers will be my class mates.
 
10:32 PM
that's great
 
I'm just afraid that I might disappoint them... :(
Or maybe they aren't even expecting much (hopefully), because I regularly post videos of it on my blog.
 
really need to "finish" my game so i can start actually advertising...
 
I need to design my game before I can start developing it :<
 
Yeah, I need to that as well... So many ideas, I'm designing while in school and programming at home. Once I over-did it, I was up until 3AM and had to wake up for school at 6AM, it was a tough day no coffee could save me....
 
@Jimmy what do you mean, it's already designed. "World Of Minecraft Tactics: Got to catch 'em All" is all the design you need, right?
 
10:36 PM
It really sounds like it could take off, borrows from the best, eh? ;)
 
well, currently, my game is actually 80 Snorlaxes and about 5 NPCs running around on blocky terrain with bad textures and lighting.
so it's basically a proof of concept that I can get the tech working. But I need to actually design a game :(
 
meh, release it as an "alpha"
 
haha
 
 
slowly add half finished features to it until you've made $56 million dollars, then hold a hastily planned convention, congrats, you've won.
 
10:40 PM
well, I need to have images that are not direct rips of Pokemon probably.
 
@Jimmy Bearpocalypse?
 
i'm going to imagine those snorlaxes are invading a school in the american mid-west in the 1980s
given the image title
 
are the red ones Siamese twins?
 
the red ones are collision errors. The octree is telling me that these guys are too close.
 
wrong answer, I'm no longer interested.
 
10:47 PM
sorry
 
it happens
 
i meant, snorlaxes actually reproduce by budding off a smaller snorlax via mitosis.
the red ones are in the middle of that process.
 
annnd I'm back
 
that picture is nws, then. snorlax sex! or... lack of sex.
 
I just came back from a massage
I thought everyone should know.
 
10:50 PM
Sorry for the delay guys, my parents live in a illusion that I go to bed at eleven, so I had to fake going to bed and then come back...
 
holograms. they work wonders.
 
so does lying, apparently.
 
yeah.... but lying isn't as cool
 
but lying can make you look cool.
 
only if you smoke/drink/steal while doing it
(disclaimer: don't smoke/drink/steal, kids!)
 
10:54 PM
so how is the 40degree weather up there?
 
i'm not sure who you're asking that about, or temperature measurement you're using
 
good point
@thedaian How is the 40 degree fahrenheit weather up there?
 
because the answer is either "cold" or "oh god i'm melting"
in which case, it's kind of cold
 
its about 70 right now
for me
 
where is that
 
10:57 PM
Tejas
 
Why doesn't everyone just use Kelvins? Or Celsius, it's practically the same.
 
habit.
I know it's 5 degrees C out right now, but it takes me half a second longer to associate that with a feeling than 40 F
 
Oh, yeah, right.
 
@Bane heh, I take it you read Notch's blog too then?
 
frankly, Kelvin is such that the numbers are really, really high for daily values. Celsius is a better system for "normal" temperatures.
 
11:00 PM
What?
 
and yeah, it's mostly habit.
i'm trying to kind of break that habit myself
 
I only read his post about voxels.
 
but when everything around here is all "it's 80 F" it's hard to do
 
I think he's lost it, but whatever, I also think Fahrenheit is a ridiculous system that's based on some wife's armpit
 
11:03 PM
Well, Kelvin makes sense in terms of science, the best choice for me after that is Celsius because it's the same thing scaled down to more understandable numbers... But if you grew up with F then I understand.
 
Celsius is scaled between the freezing and boiling point of water
which is another arbitary decision really
 
we can't change to celcius because of the book Fahrenheit 451
 
it is, but everyone know that it's cold when water freezes, and hot when it boils
 
but at least it's useful because you know if it's snowing or not outside
 
pretty sure kelvin is just celcius + 273 or something
 
11:04 PM
@Jimmy agreed
 
yea it is
point something
 
It is, +272.3 or I think...
 
i mean, yeah, Kelvin is based off of particle movement, but still...
 
.15?
 
0 degrees Celsius = 273.15 kelvin
thank you, google
 
11:06 PM
:)
 
Not sure, really... @thedaian, what do you mean?
 
also, silly: metric system standard mass unit being a kilogram
 
What?
 
Why is it silly?
 
they should have just renamed it to "kram" and the gram named to "millikram"
 
11:06 PM
1kg = weight of 1L of water at sea level under standard atmospheric conditions
 
i mean, the name
not the value
 
:/ We use "Kilo" for everything, it comes from something like latin
 
@Jimmy yes, but then you have to cram for the test tomorrow on Krams and that's just confusing.
 
Well they should re-do a lot of things, the direction of current for example... It always amazed.
 
it means "times 1000"
 
11:07 PM
me*
 
kilo stands for 1,000, basically.
it's strange that the "base" measurement is 1,000 grams.
 
It's Greek.
 
Kilometer, Kilogram, KiloBYTE
Oh yeah
 
yes, but meters, grams, and bytes are pretty much the base units for what they measure
 
KiloVer
that texan for die
 
11:09 PM
silly bytes, being made up of 8 bits :P
 
yeah, who thought of that silly number?
It's almost as silly as 12 inches to a foot
or 5123 feet to a mile
 
well, 10 bits to a byte would be pretty hard to handle
 
Yeah.
 
it's more like, we have too many fingres
fingers
 
yeah... I guess it's base 2
 
11:10 PM
we shouldn't have included our thumbs for counting.
that would have solved a lot of problems
 
wouldn't it have?
 
No, it's eight because 2 to the 3rd is 8 (binary).
 
yes, base 2
 
but why 3, that's just silly :P
 
11:12 PM
well, it could just have easily been 2^4 for a byte, or 2^5 for a byte.
oh yeah, some of the old computers had like 2^7 for a byte instead of 2^8
 
It isn't, really... 4 is too much, and 2 isn't enough!
 
well
 
yeah, people back in the day needed to be really concerned about memory usage, and we have them to thank for the Y2K scare
 
Typo, Jimmy? I find it hard to believe that some computers used 2^7 for a byte.
 
its based off of a single character, right? 2^6 would have only give 64. Including caps, there are more letters and numbers than that
 
11:14 PM
i don't, there were a lot of funky old computers for a while
 
2^7 wouldn't have been enough for all of the punctuation.
 
@Bane Some older architectures used byte for quantities of 6, 7, or (especially) 9 bits, and the PDP-10 supported bytes that were actually bitfields of 1 to 36 bits! These usages are now obsolete, killed off by universal adoption of power-of-2 word sizes.
 
Oh!
 
@justnS why not? the basic characters in ASCII are all in the first 128
 
Guys, bye now, it has been nice and I'll probably be here tomorrow as well, but as I said I have school in six hours and I have to get some rest + work on my game.
(thank's for that site Jimmy, seems interesting, I'll read up)
 
11:17 PM
multilanguage support?
 
@justnS: for multilanguage support you need either variable width encoding or at least 32-bits
 
are not all of the spanish letters included in the ascii table up to 255?
 
well, if your definition of "multilanguage support" is common extended latin language support, sure.
 
who needs multi-language support. just hard code the darn thing to be english and ship it
 
ha, man, I'm just guessing I have no idea.
 
11:21 PM
i mean, one of the uses of the extended ASCII is to display things like spanish characters, sure.
but that breaks down as soon as you have a language with a few more accented characters than spanish
like, say, swedish.
 
Fahrenheit->Kilo->bytes->ascii->multilingual support, Nice
 
it's more commonly used to display smilie faces, frowny faces, and basically everything else that makes up rougelikes and Dwarf Fortress
 
" During the early 1960s, since with just only one bit more an eight bits allows two four-bit patterns to efficiently encode two digits with binary coded decimal, the eight-bit EBCDIC (see EBCDIC history) character encoding was later adopted and promulgated as a standard by the IBM in the System/360."
Wikipedia.com...so that means its legit.
 
100% legit
 
heh, well, there have been studies (don't ask me for a link) that have shown that wikipedia is just as bad, or better than printed encyclopedias, except more up to date
 
11:26 PM
its too legit
too legit to quit
 
♥♦♣♠
best ascii characters
 
You forgot: ☺
 
oh yes, suits for card games.
 
@justnS that kind of reasoning boggles the mind.
"8 bits is best because we can use 4 bits to represent a digit. Therefore, 8 bits can represent anything between 0 and 100"
 
heh, BCD
I guess that's sorta useful... if you're making hardware or something
heh, a co-worker had a BCD clock, and I geekily told him that it was an hour off
(is "geekily" a word?)
 
11:34 PM
yes, yes it is
 
It is now
 
headed home. see you on the flip
 
same, catch you all tomorrow
 
later
 

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